Select Committee on Governance of the House

Lord Blunkett Excerpts

Wednesday 10th September 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr David Blunkett (Sheffield, Brightside and Hillsborough) (Lab)]

First, I think we owe a duty of care to Carol Mills. It is not her fault that she has been caught up in this controversy. We also owe a duty of respect to Mr Speaker and the office of Speaker. Whispering campaigns and media briefings of the types we have seen do no service to the House or its Members.

I commend the speeches made by the shadow Leader of the House, my hon. Friend the Member for Wallasey (Ms Eagle), and by my right hon. Friend the Member for Derby South (Margaret Beckett). My right hon. Friend spelled out the limited changes that have been achieved against the odds over the past 20 years and, by doing so, illustrated the real challenge in bringing about radical change, improvement and simple modernisation. What she described were very simple, common-sense changes that were achieved against the odds. It is time that this House got itself well into the 21st century.

I do not often bow to parliamentarians or politicians from either side of the House, but on procedural matters I would do so, because I am not an expert. I am absolutely sure, however, that the procedures and constitution serve the process of democracy, rather than the other way around. We are here to serve our public and to bring about radical change—to be change makers—and we can only do that if the processes, procedures and efficiency of the House allow us to do so. We need screens to work and for computers not to go down all the time and—the public might not like this—for restaurants to actually be open when we are here: things we would expect in any business. Over the past 27 years I have always been amazed at how radicals come into this House and are incorporated and how business people come into this House but do not seem to bring their business experience to bear on the processes we are addressing.

I commend my right hon. Friend the Member for Blackburn (Mr Straw), who has enormous experience over many years of advising, serving and leading in government. I wish him well, because at the end of his remarkable career the outcome of this Select Committee will determine how the process will work and how the House will function for years to come, and whether it will contribute to a reform of our democracy at a time of incredible change, when the United Kingdom faces critical issues constitutionally and for the future of our nation. If this House cannot modernise itself and get up to speed with what would be taken for granted elsewhere, we are doomed.

I have often thought that I had a desk at the Natural History museum. Learning from evolution is important, because this House is built on years of experience and it would not be appropriate to sweep it aside. We need a highly qualified and experienced chief Clerk of this House who is able to advise Members and the Government. We need to ensure that we get that right. It is perfectly feasible for that to happen through the expertise built up over years in this House—that is the expression that has been used—while at the same time having a chief executive who will lead us through the difficult task of changing the environment not only physically but democratically. We can get this right, but it deserves more than simple whispering behind hands—it deserves real reform and modernisation for the future.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sir Menzies Campbell]

But a chief executive has overall responsibility, and the finance director is below him. I do not have a great deal of experience of commerce or business, but the experience that I do have demonstrates clearly to me that, in the example given by the right hon. Gentleman, there is no doubt about who would have to give way. I simply do not believe that it is right, having regard to the controversy that has surrounded this matter up to now, for us to have a system that allows for further controversy in the future.

Let us return, very quickly, to the question of constitutional importance. I think that it is significant. That is why, in my mind, the primacy of the Clerk as the senior person ought to be preserved, and that is why I think that the suggestion of a chief operating officer makes a great deal of sense.

As I said earlier, it seems to me that the sooner these issues are resolved, the better. That is why I expressed disappointment about the fact that more Members with Scottish constituencies were not present. The length of time allowed to the right hon. Member for Blackburn is extremely short. When a special Select Committee was established to consider the right of the police to enter these premises, I, as Chairman, had to ask for an extension, but the right hon. Gentleman will not have that luxury. I think that we should all be conscious of the fact that we are imposing a considerable burden.

[Mr Blunkett]

rose—

[Sir Menzies Campbell]

The right hon. Gentleman was a member of that special Select Committee, so I will give way to him.

[Mr Blunkett]

And a very good Chair the right hon. and learned Gentleman was—but we understood, did we not, as we dealt with those issues, how crucial it was to have someone who had real oversight and managerial experience.

[Sir Menzies Campbell]

I do not want to reopen the question of the Serjeant at Arms, which formed a substantial part of that Committee’s consideration. I simply say that we need a chain of command that is clear and unambiguous, because anything other than that is likely to lead to controversy of the kind that we have thus far unnecessarily embraced because of the way in which this matter has been dealt with.

I have a great deal of sympathy for Ms Mills, who finds herself to be the subject of such controversy. However, I was powerfully affected by the observation made a moment ago that, had people understood that a chief executive-type person was to be appointed, many more people with those skills might have applied. If we have either separation or, as I prefer, a chief operating officer, it may be very interesting to see the extent to which the volume and nature of candidates is different from what it was in the first instance.