Tobacco: Illicit Trade
Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Lord Pearson of Rannoch
Lord Ashton of Hyde
There is a big problem with the illicit trade in tobacco, although it has come down over the last 10 years. The tax gap has reduced and there has been a small reduction in the amount of smoking. As for the reduction of revenue that we get due to illicit trade, there has been a small improvement in that, down from 22% to 10% on cigarettes and from 61% to 35% on tobacco. But things change, and the problem evolves continually, so it requires a lot of extra effort. In the Budget, the Chancellor announced extra money to combat this problem.
Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)
My Lords, if the noble Lord does not know the answer to the question put by the noble Lord, Lord Tebbit, would he be good enough to discover it and let the rest of us know? Could it be that the EU is still doing that?
Lord Ashton of Hyde
As I said, I do not know the answer, but of course I will write to him and tell him.
European Union: Single Market
Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Lord Pearson of Rannoch
Lord Pearson of Rannoch
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the Civitas publication, Myth and Paradox of the Single Market: How the trade benefits of EU Membership have been mis-sold, and what discussions they have had with the Governor of the Bank of England about that report.
Lord Ashton of Hyde (Con)
My Lords, in order to inform policy-making, the Government review and note the wider evidence, including the Civitas publication, on an ongoing basis. The UK will be better off in a reformed Europe because British businesses will have full participation in the free trade single market, bringing jobs, investment, lower prices and financial security. The Government’s new settlement confirms that there will be a new focus on further extending the single market.
Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)
I regret that the Government are so dismissive of this ground-breaking report, which shows that four smaller non-EU countries —Chile, Korea, Singapore and Switzerland—have been able to make vastly more free trade deals than has the EU, with its pretended clout, on our behalf. Can the Government tell us why, as the world’s fifth largest economy, we could not do as well or better if we left the EU? Secondly, do the Government accept that the single market would want to continue its free trade with us, because we are its largest client?
Greece
Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Lord Pearson of Rannoch
Lord Ashton of Hyde
My noble friend is obviously right. I would not swap economics with him. I accept that there are difficulties if your exchange rate is constrained by the euro and your interest rate policy is determined by the euro authorities. Ultimately, that is why it would be traumatic, as my right honourable friend said, if they leave—and it will be traumatic for individual Greeks, for whom we should feel a great deal of sympathy.
As far as the IMF is concerned, it is true that if Greece does not pay back its loan, it will go into arrears. There are contingency funds within the IMF which may cope with that. Ultimately, however, if that was the case, we would have about a 15% share of that. I agree with my noble friend that if we get to the stage of Greece leaving the euro, we should do all we can to help. I note that on Twitter today, President Juncker has said that, in his view, if Greece leaves the eurozone it will mean that it will be leaving the European Union.
Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)
My Lords, does the noble Lord agree that it is strange that the Greek people, and indeed the Portuguese and the Spanish, blame their problems on austerity, without seeming to realise that that is caused entirely by the ill-fated project of European integration and its euro, which they think they want to keep? Do the Government agree that, as other noble Lords have suggested, the Greek people’s best way out of the cruel euro trap is to leave it, devalue and gradually rebuild their economy? Would it not be nice if the Greeks were to succeed in this task and were eventually followed by the Portuguese, the Spanish and perhaps even the French? That might start to break up the whole euro project and, indeed, the project of European integration itself, which is doing so much damage to Europe.
Lord Ashton of Hyde
The noble Lord may be surprised to know that the Government do not agree with that analysis. I know that he has certain views. Austerity per se is not the cause only of the Greeks’ predicament. It has been a long time coming, and other European countries have dealt with it in a possibly more effective way. Austerity alone is not the answer, but nor is leaving the euro. We need to help the Greeks negotiate a position where they can face the future with a bit more optimism, and I am sure that the noble Lord will join me in that.