Exiting the EU: Businesses in Wales

Debate between Liz Saville Roberts and Ian C. Lucas

Wednesday 14th December 2016 Westminster Hall

[Liz Saville Roberts]

I share the hon. Lady’s concern, not least because the National Farmers Union has presented evidence to the Welsh Assembly that indicates that if the money that reaches Wales from the common agricultural policy were to be Barnettised—to go through the Barnett formula—that would result in a 40% decrease in the money reaching Wales.

To return to the creamery issue, we have yet to see any real clarity on how that will be addressed, and that is of considerable importance to anyone involved in agriculture and the rural economy. As we know, Wales is a net beneficiary from the EU to the tune of £79 per individual a year. Businesses must not be left second-guessing where their future lies and how they can plan ahead.

I will refer specifically to business rates. Businesses in Gwynedd have experienced an average increase of 8.9%, which I believe is the second highest after the county of the Under-Secretary of State for Wales, the hon. Member for Aberconwy (Guto Bebb), who will address us anon. I join my Assembly colleagues in pressing Labour’s Welsh Government to investigate all available powers to ensure that business rates do not penalise businesses. For example, they could use index business rate multipliers to the consumer prices index rather than the retail prices index; variable multipliers, so that small businesses are not disproportionately taxed; three-yearly revaluations, because Gwynedd waited eight years for its most recent revaluation, which had a considerable impact on the increase; and an equitable valuations appeals process. In addition, I strongly urge the Welsh Labour Government to consider adopting Plaid Cymru’s business rates support scheme, which would be likely to benefit tens of thousands of businesses across Wales.

[Ian C. Lucas]

I want to make the point that the delay in the revaluation was because of a decision by the UK Conservative Government. It was nothing to do with the Welsh Labour Government.

[Liz Saville Roberts]

I emphasise that business rates are devolved and that there is great potential for the Welsh Government to use that as a means to support business. Businesses are seeing 100% increases in their business rates valuations under the present arrangements, and that is extremely difficult for them. Plaid Cymru’s scheme would mean that all businesses valued at £15,000 or less would benefit, and those valued at under £10,000 would not pay anything at all. That would be likely to affect 80% of businesses in Wales, and I think some 70,000 would end up paying no business rates at all, which, knowing my local businesses, I am sure would be greatly welcomed.

Businesses are the backbone of the Welsh economy, and with the right support they can be resilient. To enable that, the UK Government need to come clean on their strategy and Labour’s Welsh Government need to use their devolved powers creatively and boldly to do everything to enable Welsh businesses to weather the storm. Every possible safety net must be put in place to mitigate the potentially tempestuous period in front of us, and both the UK Government and the Welsh Government should have a plan to ensure the long-term resilience of Wales.

Prisons and Probation

Debate between Liz Saville Roberts and Ian C. Lucas

Wednesday 27th January 2016 Commons Chamber

[Liz Saville Roberts]

I will return to that.

There is nowhere in Wales for women prisoners to go. Young offenders from the north must also be housed in England, as there is no facility in the north of Wales. What we do have is a plan from the UK Government to build a so-called super-prison in the north, but it is not being built to serve the needs of Wales. It is a priority for an England-centred justice system—a monolithic pack-them-in-and-pile-them-high type of prison to house offenders from all over the north-west of England. There will be around 700 prisoners from Wales, but double that number will be transported in. Its raison d’être is to meet the needs of north-west England, not those of north Wales. This is about overcrowding in English prisons. The prison happens to be in Wales as a matter of convenience, rather than being for Wales as a matter of strategic design.

This is not just nation-building from Plaid Cymru. This is about ensuring that young people can be housed in their own country, and that women do not have to cross the border into England, far away from the stability of their families and loved ones, as they will surely have to do if we do not have a women’s prison in our own country. Has there been a cold evaluation of the wider cost to Wales, especially to the Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board, which will carry the cost of providing healthcare to 2,100 prisoners? If healthcare at HMP Cardiff costs £2.24 million, has any estimate been made of the Wrexham care costs, as that prison is set to house two and a half times more prisoners? How much additional money will be made available to the health board by the UK Government via the Welsh Government? What are the wider costs of housing released prisoners, especially those deemed vulnerable and thus with priority housing status, and what indeed of the additional policing costs?

[Ian C. Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

I represent the constituency in which Wrexham prison is being built. Does the hon. Lady not welcome the fact that there will be a prison in north Wales for the first time? I am as conscious as she is of the pressure on resources. I know that it is vital, and I will hold the Minister’s feet to the fire on the matter of resources for health and for other services for my constituents.

[Liz Saville Roberts]

I welcome the presence of a prison, but the size of this prison is over and above the needs of Wales, and it will bring with it many social problems as well as the costs that I have outlined.

We know that the demand for prison places in the north of Wales is around 700, not more than 2,000. If we are to have a new prison, it would surely make more sense to have a conventional prison that responds to the needs of north Wales, with places for 700 prisoners and separate wings for women and young offenders.

Provision for women who commit crimes in Wales needs to be overhauled to become fit for the 21st century. I support the campaign of the former MP for Swansea East, Siân James, to seek restorative methods that recognise that women’s criminal behaviour has often different motivations to that of men. Too often these women are the victims of the toxic trio of domestic abuse, mental health problems and substance misuse. Female criminals need different solutions to break the patterns of criminal behaviour.

Society needs not just a roll-call of ever-increasing prisoner numbers, but results. We need a justice system that reforms criminals, not one that merely holds them in captivity and out of sight.

The probation system in Wales is facing extreme pressure at present. The probation service was underfunded and did not have the resources that it needed, and yet it showed itself to be far more effective than short-term prison sentences in rehabilitating offenders. The service has met almost all the targets it has been set in recent years and was even awarded a British quality gold award for excellence, and yet, even though it was not broken, we have seen the changes that it has suffered. It did not need fixing. There was no need for privatisation. It was an ideological choice by the Tories, who have scant interest in results, value for money or public safety. Their interest lies in lining private sector pockets.

We firmly believe that the Welsh Government are in the best place to make decisions for the justice system in Wales. Plaid Cymru is not alone in calling for the devolution of justice. There has been an almost unanimous call from legal experts, who have been giving evidence to the Welsh Affairs Committee during the pre-legislative procedures of the draft Wales Bill, that a distinct legal jurisdiction in Wales should be established, which would, in turn, pave the way for the devolution of justice, including policing, prisons and probation.

I reiterate that Plaid Cymru opposes entirely the building of a super-prison but, in the interests of improving access to justice in Wales, if it is to go ahead, the recommendations and the adaptations that have been suggested, particularly to provide separate wings for women and young people, must be considered.