Strikes (Minimum Service Levels) Bill

Liz Saville Roberts Excerpts

Committee stage
Monday 30th January 2023 Commons Chamber

[Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

The right hon. Gentleman is making a powerful argument, which I think behoves us to ask the question: why are the Government bringing forward legislation prematurely? The purpose may be that they are seeking to raise conflict in relation to the unions and the strikes for a political reason. The Government are in a position to resolve the strikes but are choosing not to do so, and they are now using legislation as a vehicle by which to do so.

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I do not want to be disagreeable, but I do not take that view. I think the Bill has been brought forward as it is because, actually, it is easy for Governments to bring forward skeleton legislation. In my view, it exhibits a general trend in a very acute form. The tendency for Governments to do so goes back many years. Thanks to a House of Lords report, I have a quotation from 1929 from Lord Chief Justice Hewart, who was concerned even then about excess powers being taken. But this Bill puts it in such an acute form, because clause 3 is simply so wide ranging.

I think that this is seeking the easy way to legislate. In my experience, parliamentary counsel, who are among the finest civil servants in the country—the work they do is phenomenal—are never defeated by time, but they are sometimes defeated by political instruction. Had they been instructed to draft a Bill that contained the proper details of what is needed, they would have been able to do so.

--- Later in debate ---

[Beth Winter (Cynon Valley) (Lab)]

I speak for millions of trade unionists, public sector workers, key workers and people up and down the country when I say that this Bill is disgraceful, draconian, unconstitutional, undemocratic and a clear attack on workers’ rights.

This afternoon, I will limit my main comments to an amendment of mine that seeks to exclude Wales from the application of the Bill. I also wish to associate myself with a number of other amendments, including those tabled by my right hon. Friend the Member for Ashton-under-Lyne (Angela Rayner) on the Front Bench, my hon. Friend the Member for Leeds East (Richard Burgon), my right hon. Friend the Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell), and my hon. Friends the Members for Wansbeck (Ian Lavery), for Gateshead (Ian Mearns), for Middlesbrough (Andy McDonald), for Coventry South (Zarah Sultana) and for Ilford South (Sam Tarry).

When I opposed the Bill on Second Reading two weeks ago, I said that it is clear that it will

“overrule the powers and policies of the devolved Governments”.—[Official Report, 16 January 2023; Vol. 726, c. 123.]

This legislation before the Commons has been introduced without any discussion with the Welsh Government. It has been introduced despite it conflicting with the Social Partnership and Public Procurement (Wales) Bill before the Senedd. A different approach is being taken in Wales, and I urge Government Members to take note of how things have been done differently—and successfully—in Wales. It is an approach that fosters collaboration and co-operation between Government, employers and workers, and it is encapsulated in the Social Partnership and Public Procurement (Wales) Bill, which places partnership working on a statutory footing. It really does work. It is this partnership approach that meant that the Welsh Government and Transport for Wales were able to negotiate a pay settlement recently that was accepted by the RMT.

[Liz Saville Roberts]

The hon. Member is giving a powerful speech. What we are seeing in Wales is co-operation and co-working in action, and service is being improved because of it, which, of course, is what good Government and good relations with unions is all about.

[Beth Winter]

I agree with the right hon. Member.

A joint statement by Wales TUC and the Welsh Government called on the UK Government to cease their controversial approach and learn lessons from the collaborative, social partnership approach adopted in Wales. It said that the UK Government should allow the rail companies and RMT to negotiate a deal that is fair and acceptable to Network Rail employees and employees of the UK train operating companies. That is the approach guiding the Welsh Government and the Social Partnership and Public Procurement (Wales) Bill.

The Strikes (Minimum Service Levels) Bill before us today is in complete conflict with that legislation. Clearly, there has been no opportunity for the Welsh Government to timetable a legislative consent motion in the Senedd. If they had done so, they would have recorded that the Senedd would withhold consent for this piece of legislation.

The Welsh Government’s view is clear. First Minister Mark Drakeford has stated:

“The Welsh Labour Government does not believe that the response to strikes should be to bring forward such restrictive and backward-looking laws, that trample over the devolution settlement.”

Counsel General Mick Antoniw has said in the Senedd:

“The way to resolve industrial disputes is by negotiation and agreement.”

The Wales TUC has also been very clear. Its general secretary, Shavanah Taj, has said that

“this Bill will prolong disputes and poison industrial relations”,

and has urged all Welsh MPs to reject the Bill.

That is why I have tabled four amendments, each of which seeks to prevent the application of this legislation from taking effect in Wales. I have sought to amend clause 3 by asserting that Senedd Cymru can still pass legislation counter to this Bill. In amendment 77, I have sought to remove the application of the Bill to Wales. In amendments 88 and 97 I seek to remove the powers in the Bill to repeal primary legislation passed in the Senedd, as the Government are seeking to do on agency workers involved in strikes. In amendment 98, I seek to ensure that Welsh workers employed in Wales by English firms are not impacted by this legislation.

I also support a raft of other amendments, as I said earlier, including Opposition amendment 1, which would mitigate some of the most authoritarian elements of the Bill and preserve existing protections against unfair dismissal, including for an employee who participates in a strike contrary to a work notice under the Bill. I also associate myself with amendments setting out the importance of meeting conditions set by the ILO, as already discussed. There must be negotiation between the social partners rather than the imposing of minimum service levels, as this Bill will do.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Chairman of Ways and Means (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I call Liz Saville Roberts.

[Liz Saville Roberts]

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Dame Rosie. I refer hon. Members to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests: I am the co-chair of the justice unions parliamentary group. I am not employed by it and do not receive a penny from it, but I still have to declare it. It would be very useful if other hon. Members had to declare their support from employers as well.

I rise to speak to amendment 76 and new clause 3 in my name. It is telling that amendment 76 is one among many amendments—including those tabled by SNP colleagues and by the hon. Member for Cynon Valley (Beth Winter)—designed to prevent the UK Government from interfering with primary legislation passed by Senedd Cymru or the Scottish Parliament. Powers to amend or revoke workers’ rights legislation on a whim have no place in a modern democratic society. The protections that my amendments would afford are critical in a period when it is becoming increasingly clear not only that devolution is under attack from Westminster, but that our fundamental rights and freedoms as citizens are not safe from an increasingly authoritarian Government in Westminster.

New clause 3 would require the UK Government to conduct an impact assessment of the effect of the Bill on industrial relations in Wales. Actually, it does not go as far as the amendments tabled by the hon. Member for Cynon Valley. It seems a very reasonable request to see what the effect of this legislation is on a sister Parliament in the United Kingdom. The assessment under the new clause would have

“particular reference to the intended outcomes of the Social Partnership and Public Procurement (Wales) Bill”.

That Bill, which is currently being debated in the Senedd, will place a duty on certain public bodies to work with trade unions when setting and delivering on wellbeing objectives.

In Wales, we seek to include workers in the making of the very public policy decisions that will have an effect on their working lives. We want to chart a different path: one whereby workers are empowered and valued, not bullied as they are by Westminster. That brings us to the very heart of the question why the right to strike is so important. Giving workers the opportunity and the choice to be represented collectively in the work environment by a trade union enables them to be heard and to bargain collectively. Okay, those are good words, but why do they actually matter? They matter because this is the key tool for improving living standards and tackling inequality. That is especially important in a country like Wales, where sadly a third of children are growing up in poverty.

We have a duty to tackle inequality and poverty. Undermining the effectiveness of industrial action at a time when the cost of living crisis is biting will only perpetuate the cruel poverty cycle that has trapped so many people in so many communities. Amplifying workers’ voices can also bring significant benefits to employers, as it can be a way of identifying issues at an early stage and ensuring that the valuable insights that workers have into how services can be improved are heard and acted on. This is about facilitating meaningful discussions and negotiations that lead to real solutions—which is not to say that such an approach is always easy, but in the long term it is far more effective than actively sowing the seeds of discord between workers and their employers.

[David Simmonds]

I yield to no one in the Chamber in my respect for trade unions. I have had the privilege of chairing three public sector employer organisations and the European sectoral social dialogue in education, so I know from lengthy personal experience that a great deal can be achieved through processes of that kind. However, 61% of workers in Britain are employed in small and medium-sized enterprises, and a further 15% of the UK workforce consists of self-employed people. Does the right hon. Lady think it is necessary for the interests of those people to be raised in this debate, as well as the interests of those who are part of large unionised organisations?

[Liz Saville Roberts]

The hon. Gentleman has raised an important point, but when we are looking at the culture of workplace relations and at productivity, perhaps we should look to Europe. In Germany, for instance, that culture is far more effective and far more productive, so perhaps it is something we should be addressing.

As I was saying, the Bill, as it stands, actively sows the seeds of discord between workers and employers. This destructive approach, which the UK Government seem hellbent on pursuing, will serve only to exacerbate the very recruitment and retention problems that are placing so much pressure on our public services. I therefore welcome the Welsh Government’s commitment to seeking every possible lawful means of opposing the implementation of the Bill in Wales.

It would be remiss of me at this stage not to encourage the Welsh Government to live up to their laudable rhetoric by showing leadership when it comes to public sector pay disputes taking place in Wales. I am sorry to say that, so far, that has been lacking in their approach. It is sad to see the difference between Labour’s message here and its message in Wales, but we are dealing with this Bill in the here and now, and that is our serious problem. I urge the Welsh Government to consider adopting the five-point plan to tackle the health crisis presented by my Plaid Cymru colleagues in the Senedd: that is a result of collaboration, and collaboration brings results—unlike confrontation, which is what we are discussing today.

I remind the Minister that the UK Government cannot legislate their way out of disputes that are taking place because of the pressures on the very public services they have stripped to the bone year after year. Our society cannot function without the thousands of workers who run our hospitals, public transport systems, schools and courts. Sacking people for demanding fair pay and fair conditions for their work is blinkered and short-termist. Why are the Government doing this? Public sector workers and workers in key publicly funded services are not to be demonised. Follow the money—services are creaking and in a skeletal condition, having been starved by 13 years of Tory budget choices. Everything else is cynical window dressing.

[Sam Tarry]

It is an honour to follow that speech from the right hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Liz Saville Roberts), who explained, epically, why people in Wales are so angry. I should begin by drawing the Committee’s attention to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests, and I do so proudly, because every pound that has been donated to me has come as a result of democratic decisions made by the thousands of local trade unions members who support me in the work that I do as a Labour party representative.

I wish to speak in favour of amendment 86, tabled in my name, and other amendments tabled by my hon. Friends the Members for Easington (Grahame Morris), for Wansbeck (Ian Lavery) and for Cynon Valley (Beth Winter) and my right hon. Friend the Member for Ashton-under-Lyne (Angela Rayner). This Bill represents one of the most restrictive, interventionist and incoherent industrial relations strategies that we have ever witnessed in this country. If it is passed in its current form, nurses, firefighters, teachers, bus workers, paramedics, lecturers, pilots, rail workers, solicitors and civil servants—the very same workers whom the Government have praised time and again during the pandemic—will find themselves deprived of their fundamental rights as workers and at risk of arbitrary dismissal, as so many Members have pointed out this evening.

This is nothing more than a sacker’s charter. Hundreds of thousands of workers have taken industrial action this winter. There are individual disputes, but with a common cause: a pay disaster that means that workers are paid significantly less in real terms now than 14 years ago. Today, firefighters have voted in record numbers to take industrial action, saying “Enough is enough” to a Government-created pay crisis. This Government could simply listen: improved pay and conditions could resolve that, not autocratic, poorly thought out legislation.

The Government have often invited comparisons with other European countries, which I find completely disingenuous. As the general secretary of the European Federation of Public Service Unions noted, the Government have failed to mention that unions in those countries negotiate their minimum service levels and do not face anywhere near the excessive balloting rules and thresholds imposed in the UK. As I said in an earlier intervention, European countries with minimum service levels typically have huge levels of collective bargaining—often 80% to 90%—while here in the UK it is around 25%. If the Minister wishes to bring our workplace law in line with that of European neighbours, perhaps he should start there. I have heard so many people say that the Bill is like Australia, France and Germany. It is not. It is more like Turkey, Singapore or Russia.

Amendment 86 would go some way to combating the lopsided relationship put forward in the Bill, by requiring employers to consult recognised trade unions before the imposition of a work notice. After all, every trade unionist I know who runs a local branch is perfectly capable of getting around the table, having a discussion and coming to an agreement—sometimes compromising to do so—in the interests of the workers they represent. The problem is that getting a deal is easy for trade unionists, but this is a no-deal Government who are focused on attacking workers, not resolving disputes.

The Bill is unique not just in its vicious anti-worker sentiment but in the extraordinary powers that it grants the Secretary of State. It leaves a tremendous amount of detail to be decided, as the right hon. Member for North East Somerset (Mr Rees-Mogg) pointed out. It is a constitutional farce. It would deny all Members proper scrutiny. The Government are trying to push the Bill through rapidly, in one evening. That flies in the face of our traditions and democracy, and certainly gives far too much power to the Secretary of State.

I spoke to a representative from the British Airline Pilots Association earlier today. The Bill covers transport, which could include aviation. They expressed serious concerns that the Bill would enable the Secretary of State to overturn the highest-ranking aviation safety officers in the country, and force airlines to run dangerous and potentially understaffed flights. Will the Secretary of State sit in Whitehall deciding on flights coming in or out of London Heathrow or any other major international airport? I would be happy if he banned a few more flights to Mustique and the Cayman Islands, because Members on the Government Benches would probably have more time to spend here working on the Government’s agenda to sort out our country’s parlous state.

It is no wonder the former Lord Chief Justice Lord Judge referred to the Bill as a

“skeleton bill with a supercharged Henry VIII clause”.

It will grant the Secretary of State powers to rule by diktat. We should not be debating such extreme legislation that gives the Secretary of State absolute power to decide which workers will be able to take industrial action and when. It severely restricts the democratic and human rights of millions of people in this country, without the necessary detail or time to scrutinise it properly in this House. That is clearly unacceptable and should not stand.

Turning to the workability of the Bill, outside the clear moral issues that compel Opposition Members to vote against it, it simply will not work. It is utterly dangerous, and will set back industrial relations. It will do nothing to help resolve disputes or support good industrial relations, which I am sure the Minister will agree are the basis of a healthy economy. In fact, it will do the opposite. It will force trade unions to develop other tactics to fight for better jobs, pay and conditions.

If Members will indulge me for a minute, I will give a short history lesson. In the 1940s, order 1305 was brought in during the war to give the Government power to decide, in a similar way to this Bill, to ban strikes in various sectors. Of course, we were fighting a fascist regime and we want to think that all those powers were appropriate, but when they were used it was a huge own goal because they led to significant increases in the number of days lost to strikes. Workers got so fed up that they simply walked out on unofficial strike, and they did so without any trade union involvement, creating a situation where the unions had less say and less influence to reach a resolution or to monitor what was happening. So history shows that this kind of legislation is a total disaster.

Steel Industry: Contribution to the UK Economy

Liz Saville Roberts Excerpts

Wednesday 25th January 2023 Westminster Hall

[Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

I am very grateful to the hon. Lady for giving way; she is being very kind in taking interventions. There have been suggestions that a closed-loop cycle could be created in south Wales, whereby floating offshore wind is used not only for electricity but to make green hydrogen for heavy industry in the area, including, of course, steel production. Contracts for difference could be used to support such a relationship. Will she join me in asking the Minister to clarify how the contracts for difference scheme could be adjusted, so that it supports renewable energy hubs that use multiple technologies, and to assess how such projects could be linked? The important words there are “multiple technologies”.

[Jessica Morden]

I thank the right hon. Member for that very important intervention. She gave an example, as did the right hon. Member for Preseli Pembrokeshire (Stephen Crabb), of how we can use our steel in these projects, and I hope that the Minister will refer directly to that point when she responds to the debate.

These interventions prove that we simply cannot decarbonise the economy without decarbonising steel. As Tata has highlighted, almost every aspect of the UK’s decarbonisation plan is steel-intensive, with 10 million tonnes of steel being required over the coming years for offshore wind, solar, nuclear, hydrogen, and carbon capture and utilisation storage projects. The “Britain, we need our steel” campaign was launched by the Community trade union and union partners in 2020. It is not just a slogan; it is a statement of fact.

Today’s debate comes in the context of the recent worrying news from Liberty Steel, which has announced that it will idle its steel plants in my constituency and at the Tredegar site in the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Blaenau Gwent (Nick Smith). The primary production plant in the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Rotherham (Sarah Champion), who is also an excellent advocate for steel in her area, and the Performance Steel supplier in the constituency of the hon. Member for West Bromwich East (Nicola Richards), are among the other sites affected.

In a written response to me last week, the Secretary of State for Wales mentioned that he had spoken to Cabinet colleagues about the situation at Liberty and what it means for the workforce, and said that the Government stood ready to provide support. Any updates on that written response that the Minister can provide would of course be welcome to us and, more importantly, all those working at the plants, who are worried about the future. We must not underestimate the uncertainty that they will feel following the news about Liberty.

Of course Liberty has its specific issues, and the Community union is seeking answers from the company about how the latest announcement squares with previous commitments to invest in the business and ramp up production in Newport, Tredegar and elsewhere. It is clear, however, that there is a wider context, and that Liberty’s announcement again demonstrates the precarious outlook for the steel industry more widely. Indeed, the company specifically cited energy costs as a factor in the decision that it made this month.

The same is true for British Steel in Scunthorpe, which is paying nearly £1 million a day for electricity, the cost of electricity having risen tenfold since 2021. There is still real uncertainty about the situation of British Steel, and I am sure that the hon. Member for Scunthorpe (Holly Mumby-Croft), who is here, will speak about that shortly. I hope that the Minister can provide updates. It is imperative that talks between the company and the Government continue, and reach a successful outcome that ensures that steelmaking at Scunthorpe continues and decarbonises.

As Community has highlighted, the cost of Government inaction, in terms of job losses, employment support, and the loss of a vital strategic foundation site, is incalculable. The sky-high energy costs facing the steel sector are by no means a new issue, as my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff South and Penarth (Stephen Doughty) said. It is one that I and other Members representing steelmaking constituencies have raised with 12 different steel Ministers since 2010, including six in the last three years alone. It is difficult to establish a long-term relationship when our steel Ministers change so often. I also like the Minister personally, but I make that point.

Over recent years, Opposition Members will have lost track of the number of times we have had to highlight the energy cost disparity, which remains a blight on the competitiveness of UK steel producers compared with their continental counterparts, particularly those in France and Germany. Indeed, UK Steel research shows that British steel producers paid twice as much for electricity last year as German counterparts, hitting competitiveness.

The UK Government’s response to this over the years can be described as piecemeal at best. The energy bills discount scheme announced by the Treasury earlier this month confirmed that there would be at least a continuation of energy price support for businesses until April 2024, removing fears of a March cliff edge—an uncertainty that the Government allowed to fester through the tail end of last year.

However, it is important to note that the support for energy-intensive industries outlined by the Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury falls far short of that provided by competitor countries. That is the point. For example, the German Government have guaranteed their steel industry an electricity price of €130 per MWh for 2023. In contrast, the Treasury’s announcement on non-domestic energy support earlier this month provides our steel industry with a discount only to electricity prices higher than £185 per MWh. That means that UK steelmakers will stump up an estimated 63% more than their German counterparts for electricity.

UK Steel has rightly been critical of what the UK Treasury has on offer, saying that its

“reforms significantly narrow the help that Government will provide”,

and that Ministers are

“betting on a calm and stable 2023 energy market, in a climate of unstable global markets, with the scheme no longer protecting against extremely volatile prices.”

For a decade, British steelmakers have continually been asked to compete with one hand tied behind their back. That is why Labour’s £1 billion contingency fund to help energy-intensive industries, such as steel, deal with energy costs is crucial. It goes far further than this Government’s proposals and is vital.

The £800 million toward energy costs that the Minister mentioned in previous meetings is not all for the steel sector. In any case, it is not a new package of support. It relates to a package introduced under the coalition Government between 2013 and 2015, which was pushed largely by the Liberal Democrat-operated Department for Business, Innovation and Skills. In any case, the support referenced is significant less than the £1 billion contingency fund that Labour has suggested.

We need a Government who will support the industry in a move towards decarbonisation. We have read the reports of the £600 million that the Government have pledged, or are reported to have pledged, to Tata and British Steel this week to help with lower-emissions technology. I trust that we will get more details on this from the Minister later. I hope the negotiations continue and progress with urgency, and that any plan to decarbonise will be fully consulted on and agreed with the unions to ensure a just transition for the workforce. However, it is important to note that the support arrived significantly later than the support for other European countries did, and is significant lower. For example, the German Government have already spent €8.5 billion towards greening their domestic steel industry, and the French Government have spent €2.2 billion. British Steel Scunthorpe’s multi-union chair, Paul McBean, put it well in his recent interview with The Yorkshire Post, saying:

“We are the only country being told to go green and (with) no help.”

I look forward to the Minister’s response on that point about the adequacy of what is on offer.

It is clear that the steel sector is committed to the transition to net zero, but needs a long-term policy framework to make that a reality without penalising steelmakers with gargantuan carbon prices in the interim years. As things stand, rising carbon costs are eating into any available capital that steel companies may have to invest in decarbonisation. That is completely counterproductive, and we need the Minister to act on it. That is a key point.

The Government have spoken about a roughly £1.5 billion package of support schemes for the industry. However, it is important to note that those schemes are spread across many industries, so £1.5 billion does not translate into very much direct capital support for the steel sector. In particular, the £1 billion carbon capture, utilisation and storage infrastructure fund is not money provided to steel companies to support CCUS on site, but investment in pipelines and storage that may at some point be used by steel companies—it is far from a certainty. For example, Welsh steel plants will not be using that infrastructure even if they opt for carbon capture, as it is all for the North sea. Let us not forget the £250 million clean steel fund promised by the Government led by the right hon. Member for Maidenhead (Mrs May), which disappeared without trace.

Labour’s proposed £3 billion green steel fund represents a potential way forward—not a sticking-plaster emergency bail-out, but a plan to work with industry, investing alongside it over the next 10 years. If this Government will not take action, we will.

I also urge the Minister to look at proposals for a carbon border adjustment mechanism. The costs of the UK’s emissions trading system have spiralled over the past two years. Compliance costs for the sector reached £120 million last year, which is equivalent to 60% of the average annual capital investment of the sector, and are set to get much worse. A carbon border adjustment mechanism would create a level playing field by applying carbon prices at the border equivalent to those faced by domestic producers, ensuring that imported steel does not have a price advantage. The Community union has highlighted that such a mechanism would also support the decarbonisation of steel production, as it would allow steelmakers to produce low-emission steel without being out-competed by high-emission, lower-cost imported steel.

Economic Crime and Corporate Transparency Bill

Liz Saville Roberts Excerpts

Report stage
Tuesday 24th January 2023 Commons Chamber

[Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

I join others in welcoming the Minister to his place.

Two of my constituents have lost their entire life savings as a result of Harewood Associates, a property investment company that went into administration having offered unregulated loan notes to the public. I therefore commend new clause 19. But in the meantime, I would appreciate it if the Minister could advise me on what course of action I might take to pursue that case further.

[Kevin Hollinrake]

It sounds like a matter for the Financial Conduct Authority, which does not directly relate to my portfolio, but that would be my first call as a constituency Member of Parliament. The case the right hon. Lady raises sounds very distressing for her constituents. If I can help in any way I will of course be happy to do so.

Oral Answers to Questions

Liz Saville Roberts Excerpts

Tuesday 17th January 2023 Commons Chamber

[Graham Stuart]

My hon. Friend is right to highlight the need for skills and training if we are to meet our ambitious net zero targets. On 20 September, the Government launched the latest phase of the £9.2 million home decarbonisation skills training competition, which will fund training for people working in the energy efficiency, retrofit and low-carbon heating sectors in England. We are confident that there is enough training capacity to meet demand for heat pump upskilling as heat pump deployment increases.

[Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

The UK imports all medical radioisotopes used for treatment and diagnosis, mostly from European facilities that are due to close down by 2030. What assessment has the Secretary of State made of the need to ensure security of supply of nuclear medicines?

[Ms Ghani]

As the life sciences Minister I can say that we are working extensively with the industry to ensure that we have good equipment in our supply chains. I am not particularly aware of this situation, but I am happy to have a meeting or write to the right hon. Lady to see what exactly the problem is.

Strikes (Minimum Service Levels) Bill

Liz Saville Roberts Excerpts

2nd reading
Monday 16th January 2023 Commons Chamber

[Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

I refer Members to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests. I entered politics as a teaching union rep. I am still a trade union member. I am also co-chair of the Justice Unions Group and, contrary to the myth that the Conservatives like to propagate, I have taken not a single penny from the unions—I do it for political reasons and values. I am sure that it comes as no surprise, therefore, that Plaid Cymru will be opposing this reprehensible legislation tonight.

Nobody seeks to strike, least of all the workers who lose a day’s pay. The strikes of health workers are a last resort for over-worked staff who fear that patient safety is suffering because of increased demand and staff shortages. What do the Government propose to do? They propose to bring in sanctions that threaten to sack those very staff. Yet the UK Government have no interest in working with our key workers. They would rather pursue this socially divisive legislation in an attempt to distract from the daily disruption to public services caused by their own party’s butchering of budgets 365 days a year.

Perhaps the Minister can clarify whether the legislation will cause further disruption to businesses by undermining commitments made in the trade and co-operation agreement to

“protect and promote social dialogue on labour matters among workers and employers.”

It is not to reduce that legislation, but to build upon it, and that is not what we are talking about today.

It is becoming increasingly clear that our rights are not safe under Westminster control. First there was our democratic right to protest, now our democratic right to strike, and next a bonfire of the protections, hard won when workers were protected by membership of the EU.

Of course, the UK Government’s disregard for Welsh workers comes as no surprise. Last summer they announced their intention to scrap the Trade Union (Wales) Act 2017, a law passed by our Senedd to protect workers in Wales. The only way to give Wales the power to protect workers’ rights for good from relentless Westminster attacks is to devolve employment law to Wales, as is already the case, and well before devolution took place in the late 1990s, in Northern Ireland. I urge the Labour party to drop its opposition to this policy and support workers in Wales and Scotland as a matter of urgency.

In the little time that we have left, and to bring my remarks to a close, the easiest, safest and fairest way of guaranteeing minimum service provision is to ensure that key workers are able to do their jobs effectively by improving working conditions, by bringing forward the long-promised employment Bill and by giving workers the proper pay increases they need. On the question of pay, there must be recognition that public services in Wales face additional pressure due to a funding system that perpetuates high levels of poverty and the knock-on effect that poverty has on health, and the reality of having an older population than the rest of the UK. Now is the time for Westminster to recognise this and to commit to the needs that public services in Wales require.

Newport Wafer Fab

Liz Saville Roberts Excerpts

Monday 21st November 2022 Commons Chamber

[Grant Shapps]

Although we have not met up, I pay tribute to my hon. Friend’s work in this area. As I have said, we are of course very keen to ensure that we have semiconductor manufacturing in this country. That south Wales cluster is enormously important, but there are other areas that share many of the skills. We will say more about this soon, not least because £1.6 billion has gone into the UK’s nine Catapults. That is an increase of 35% on the funding cycle, and semiconductors are a very important part of more than one of the Catapults.

[Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

During a recent session of the BEIS Committee’s inquiry into the UK semiconductor industry, a representative from Nexperia indicated that there is space at Newport Wafer Fab for expansion and diversification, and we all know that we are becoming ever more reliant on semiconductors. Will the Secretary of State therefore commit not only to saving the 500 jobs currently at Newport but to bringing forward the investment necessary to transform the Newport site into a semiconductor hub that can help sustain supply chains across the UK and, in turn, sustain national security?

[Grant Shapps]

It is worth saying for the House’s benefit —I am sure the right hon. Lady knows this —that this got going in south Wales partly through £1 billion of Government investment. Of course, it is important that we keep the investment flowing. This is principally a private business and I understand that Nexperia has indicated that it would like to expand it further. For reasons of national security, that will now happen, I hope, under the auspices of another private business. However, the Government stand four-square behind the principle that we should have high-tech industries and high-tech, well-paid jobs. That is something that we will pursue.

Energy Prices Bill

Liz Saville Roberts Excerpts

Committee stage
Monday 17th October 2022 Commons Chamber

[Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

I rise to speak to new clauses 6 and 7, which stand in my name.

Amid the chaos of the economic emergency unleashed by the Prime Minister’s discredited Budget, energy prices have once again increased for millions of households. While I welcome the fact that the measures in this Bill have temporarily limited the increase in energy bills, the reality is that the energy price guarantee fails to meet the scale of the crisis we face: £2,500 is still unaffordable. Indeed, the Welsh Government have estimated that energy bills of £1,971 could well push 45% of Welsh households into fuel poverty. The Chancellor has caused further uncertainty with his announcement that support in its current form will last for only six months. Many families will have budgeted on the understanding that the support would last for two years, and they will now be desperate for certainty about how they will pay for extortionate bills and rocketing mortgages.

Plaid Cymru has urged the UK Government to go further, and to slash average bills to the pre-April levels of £1,277. New clause 7 would require the UK Government to publish an assessment of the impact that such an action would have on the number of households living in fuel poverty, and the number of children living in both relative and absolute income poverty. I think it is a fair question to ask about how these measures affect the poorest families.

Fuel poverty increases the risks of developing respiratory and cardiovascular diseases, while poverty in childhood affects education and career prospects, and it can even cut short life expectancy. There are other costs, as we heard earlier, with tenement buildings in relation to the costs of energy, and people scrimping and saving as best they can. Energy companies should of course pay their fair share for this additional support through an expanded and backdated windfall tax on oil and gas companies, and scrapping the investment allowance.

If the Chancellor wants to reduce the cost of the energy support package, the answer is not to break promises made to millions of households, but—and on this surely we can all agree—to focus on reducing energy demand. The inefficiency of our housing stock means that households are wasting hundreds of pounds a year on energy that immediately escapes through draughty walls, windows and ceilings. New clause 6 would require the UK Government to work with the Welsh Government, the Scottish Government and the Northern Ireland Executive to assess the benefits of a housing decarbonisation scheme in terms of the impact it would have on energy bills, the number of households living in fuel poverty and climate targets.

Even before energy prices skyrocketed, the Welsh future generations commissioner estimated that £3.6 billion of investment from the UK Government could unlock a Welsh home insulation programme that would save Welsh households an average of £418 a year on their energy bills. This benefit extends beyond lower energy bills. National Energy Action has estimated that, due to the impact of cold homes on health, for every £1 spent on improving energy efficiency and retrofitting fuel-poor homes, the NHS saves 42p, and that the potential benefit across the UK of ensuring that nobody lives in a cold home amounts to more than £1.5 billion per year. This is using public money to real, direct effect in saving energy and in having a real effect on people and their lives.

We are about to enter a new phase of Conservative austerity, and those of us in this House who understand the deadly consequences of the last 12 years must push back against the pernicious narrative that this is the only way to ensure economic stability. Instead, we must make the case for the prudent investment that has economic and social benefits, and there is no better place to start than a street-by-street home insulation programme.

I am not seeking to divide the Committee, but I would very much appreciate a response from the Minister on our new clauses 6 and 7. I want to mention that, if I had time to do so, I would also speak in support of amendment 16 and new clauses 12, 10 and 9, which also include many important measures that we should be taking into account at this time.

[Munira Wilson (Twickenham) (LD)]

I rise to speak to new clause 4 and amendment 4, both in my name and that of my hon. Friend the Member for Richmond Park (Sarah Olney). These amendments seek to address the inequality of support offered to some 480,000 households across the UK that benefit from communal energy provision. This Government have repeatedly promised to provide equivalent support to those living in households on communal heat networks, yet this Bill plainly fails to realise that equivalence in legislation with other households that will be supported through the energy price guarantee.

Heat networks supply heat to buildings from a central source, avoiding the need for households and workplaces to have individual energy-intensive heating solutions, such as gas boilers. They are one of the most cost-effective ways of reducing carbon emissions from heating, and indeed they have been encouraged by the Government. Many who are on communal heat networks live in London, and there is a number of such blocks of flats in my constituency and the neighbouring constituency of Richmond Park. Residents in Wharf House in Teddington in my constituency are facing energy price rises of 560%, and it is not uncommon for those on communal heat networks to be facing price rises of over 500%. These people can be living in private housing, as is the case in my constituency, but particularly across London many affected by this issue live in social housing and in buildings that range from Victorian mansion flats through to very recent developments.

Many of my constituents and those of my hon. Friend the Member for Richmond Park (Sarah Olney) who have been in touch are very worried about their rising bills and what help they will receive. I presented a petition to Parliament, I have written letters to the Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, and I have tabled parliamentary questions. At each turn, and indeed in the Prime Minister’s statement on the energy support package some weeks ago, reference has been made to support for those on communal heat networks, and we have repeatedly been told, including in the BEIS factsheet, that heat networks will receive support equivalent to both the energy price guarantee and the energy bills support scheme. Indeed, the Minister currently on the Front Bench replied to a written question from me last week promising that the Government want heat network consumers to receive support equivalent to that provided to mains gas and electricity consumers.

Yet in this Bill it transpires that thousands of households will receive support second hand through suppliers and only for six months. Until this morning we knew that other families on average would have their bills capped at about £2,500 for two years, whereas households connected to heat networks were going to face a cliff edge after six months. I appreciate that policy has changed today, but the lack of equivalence remains, which is why I was still keen to speak to these amendments.

As the Government seek to review their energy support scheme after six months, they need to address the lack of equivalent support for those living in buildings with communal heat networks. The Liberal Democrat amendments would ensure that every person who is part of a heat network received a cost reduction that is equivalent to that of those benefiting from the energy price guarantee, and for the same period of time. That would achieve equivalence, which the Government have proposed.

Those who live in buildings with communal heat networks should not be penalised for doing the environmentally responsible thing that the Government have urged them to do. I therefore urge the Minister to honour the Government’s promise and I hope that in his closing remarks he will address the issues that these amendments raise.

Energy Prices: Support for Business

Liz Saville Roberts Excerpts

Thursday 22nd September 2022 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

The price signal remains very strong. Even with this support, prices have risen significantly and it is fair to assume that non-domestic users will be rational actors in the market.

[Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

To prevent households being locked into years of fuel poverty, Plaid Cymru is urging the Government to bring forward a street-by-street insulation programme, to be paid for by a higher windfall tax on oil and gas companies. Businesses also need support with energy efficiency measures so that they, too, can permanently reduce their energy bills. Will the Secretary of State meet me to discuss the proposal from the Federation of Small Businesses for “help to green” vouchers, which would support small and medium-sized businesses to afford energy-saving products and services?

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

It will be a pleasure to meet the right hon. Lady to discuss these matters. The Government are committed to helping people with insulation projects. That is an important part of the Government’s strategy, and she is right to raise it.

Oral Answers to Questions

Liz Saville Roberts Excerpts

Tuesday 12th July 2022 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I call Liz Saville Roberts.

[Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Llefarydd. I welcome the Minister to her place.

The lack of grid capacity in Wales is a chronic problem, stalling both onshore and offshore low-carbon developments. National Grid’s pathway to 2030 proposes a new connection between north and south Wales. Will the Minister commit to working with the Welsh Government to set a precondition for any development of sufficient capacity to ensure that local, small-scale energy projects can access the grid at low cost?

[Jane Hunt]

We always work to ensure adequate capacity. Perhaps the right hon. Member could meet National Grid to talk about that, but if she would like to come back to me on the point when she has done so, I will be happy to meet her.

Shale Gas Production

Liz Saville Roberts Excerpts

Tuesday 15th March 2022 Commons Chamber

[Greg Hands]

We have an established process in place for large solar farms and I am not changing policy on that. Solar offers a great addition to our armoury of renewables and it has been a big success in this country in recent times. When it comes to commenting on individual applications, I obviously cannot do that because that is the quasi-judicial role of my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State.

[Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

At COP26, Wales signed up to the Beyond Oil & Gas Alliance, and we have comprehensively rejected fracking or any new hydrocarbon developments. Shale production will not meet our current energy needs; it will take too long, be too expensive and condemn our climate targets. Will the Minister assure me that he will respect Wales’s opposition to fracking, honour our COP26 pledges and not give in to climate deniers and fossil fuel opportunists?

[Greg Hands]

I remind the right hon. Lady that energy is reserved. However, I refer her to my earlier point about local community support being important in all our energy policy.

--- Later in debate ---

[Greg Hands]

I thank the hon. Lady for that question. On hydrogen, I can confirm that one project pretty near to her constituency—the Whitelee wind farm just south of Glasgow, which I went to in November—is looking at how wind power, in this case onshore wind power, can be converted into hydrogen, with £9.8 million of UK Government support. That will drive buses and dustcarts in Glasgow city for many decades to come. It is exactly that sort of innovative project that the UK Government are backing.

[Liz Saville Roberts]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I asked the Minister very carefully about whether he would respect Wales’s policy of refusing further coal and gas. I am sure that most people in this House will appreciate that this aspect of energy is devolved to Wales, but he replied that energy is a reserved matter. Can you advise me, Mr Speaker, on how awareness could be established within this Government as to which powers are reserved and which powers are devolved to Wales?

[Mr Speaker]

Does the Minister want to answer?