Terrorism (Protection of Premises) Bill

Debate between Lisa Smart and Jim Shannon

Consideration of Lords amendments
Tuesday 25th March 2025 Commons Chamber

[Lisa Smart (Hazel Grove) (LD)]

It is a pleasure to return to the Chamber to consider the Bill. Over recent months, it has been scrutinised in detail at the other end of this building, and I thank colleagues in the House of Lords for their collaborative work. The changes brought forward are sensible and proportionate, and they reflect the broad cross-party consensus behind the aims of this legislation.

A number of the changes were technical in nature but crucial for clarity. They address several concerns that I and others raised on Second Reading about the scope of qualifying events under the Bill. The Lords amended it to make it clear that private events—weddings, office parties or similar—sit outside its scope. That helps to ensure that the law is designed for public-facing venues without overreaching into personal or private spaces.

In addition, several important changes were made to strengthen the safeguards around delegated powers. The amendments consolidate into a single clause the key power of the Secretary of State to amend the public protection procedures that must be in place in each tier. They also require the Secretary of State to meet a high bar of necessity to make changes to qualifying thresholds for protective measures, and to consult relevant parties before exercising these powers. These are welcome changes that introduce further transparency and ensure that the Bill’s implementation is balanced and accountable.

Another key area of discussion throughout the Bill’s passage has been the need for clear and accessible guidance. On Second Reading, I and others cautioned that venue operators would struggle to comply with the law without adequate support. I am therefore pleased that the Minister in the Lords gave a firm commitment, repeated by the Minister today, that guidance will be published well in advance of the changes coming into force, and that there will be a period of engagement to ensure that it is robust and practical. I thank my Liberal Democrat colleague Baroness Suttie for her tireless work on this point and for her amendment, which helped secure this assurance. Her contributions in the Lords have strengthened the Bill considerably.

It is impossible to consider this legislation without remembering why we are here. Martyn’s law was born from an unimaginable tragedy—the terrorist attack at Manchester Arena in 2017. As the MP for Hazel Grove in Greater Manchester, I witnessed at first hand the resilience and the unity that followed the arena attack. I remember joining my community in Romiley Precinct when residents came together in quiet solidarity the evening after. It was an act of remembrance, but also a statement that terrorism will never define us, and that we will not be divided by it.

Among the 22 lives taken that night was Martyn Hett, a 29-year-old from Stockport. His mother Figen Murray has shown extraordinary resolve in the years since the attack. Her campaign for Martyn’s law has been defined by compassion, determination and a belief that no other family should ever experience what hers has had to endure. Today we are seeing the fruits of her dedication. The Bill is a testament to her courage and unrelenting hope that something good could emerge from the darkest of circumstances. Thanks to Figen’s advocacy, this country will be better prepared to keep people safe in our public spaces.

I welcome the Bill and the amendments before us today. Martyn’s law will not bring back those who were taken from us, but it will save lives. In doing so, it will stand as a lasting tribute to Martyn, Figen and the people of Greater Manchester. The Liberal Democrats are proud to support it.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

First of all, I thank the hon. and gallant Minister. We all look to him for his guidance and support, which is much appreciated by us as individuals on behalf of our constituents. Let me put on record my thanks to all the police forces across this great United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, particularly the Police Service of Northern Ireland for its work to keep us safe. Without them we could not operate here, nor could we have protection for our constituents, who we are duty bound to represent in this House. I will not delay the House too long, but I wish to ask two questions in relation to the Bill, which are both relate specifically to Northern Ireland. I hope that the House will bear with me for a couple of minutes as I illustrate them.

I have spoken on the Bill several times, and I have always sought to ensure parity of conditions throughout the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Lords amendments to clauses 32 to 35 in particular seek to remove the UK-wide imposition of polygraph licence conditions for terrorist offenders. Will the Minister confirm that their removal will not leave the PSNI in Northern Ireland without the means to watch and assess terrorists as closely as can be done on the mainland and that existing legislation referred to in the amendments is capable of securing protection?

Secondly, it is imperative that police forces have access to transfer of prisoners. Lords amendment 76 has been designed to ensure that provisions could continue to apply to restricted transfers between Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland for the purposes of determining release. Will the Minister confirm that the Government are convinced that there can be seamless transfers between all nations in this great United Kingdom when necessary? If the Minister does not have access to those answers immediately, I am happy for him to come back to me on that, if that is helpful. I would appreciate the answers.

Community Theatre

Debate between Lisa Smart and Jim Shannon

Wednesday 12th March 2025 Westminster Hall

[Lisa Smart (Hazel Grove) (LD)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered Government support for community theatre.

It is a pleasure to present this debate with you in the Chair, Sir Jeremy. Community theatres across the country empower young people and enable them to find and amplify their voices. It is also wonderful fun to be part of the audience. I will make the case for community theatres to be treated as an asset that saves money for our communities. I will also make the case for community theatres to be able to access capital funding to keep the show on the road and, because of the important role that local councils play in supporting community theatre, I shall make the case for sustainable funding for local government.

In my constituency, the Forum theatre in Romiley provides enriching opportunities to many young people from different backgrounds, including those who would otherwise not naturally feel able to get involved in the arts, as well as those with physical or learning disabilities. I have had the great pleasure of attending a whole range of performances at the theatre. The standard of production is extraordinarily high. It is especially uplifting to see the progression of young people moving from the chorus to a leading role, and then, for a few, to the country’s top drama schools.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I commend the hon. Lady for securing this debate. I am very fortunate to have the Web theatre in Newtownards, which gives people the opportunities that she referred to. Does she agree that community theatre binds people together? And yet, with the escalation of costs, it is getting harder for theatres to keep the lights on. Does she further agree that arts funding has been put on the back burner for far too long and that it is now time to change that position, so that the community theatre space can be at the forefront of the regeneration and rejuvenation that she clearly wants?

[Lisa Smart]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. I obviously agree with him about the important role that community theatres play in our communities, and I will comment on the importance of clarity on longer-term funding. As he rightly says, theatres face increasing costs. When energy bills go up and it costs us more to heat our homes, they go up significantly more for theatres. I will come on to the capital spending that is needed and how we are putting at risk some of the community cohesion work that theatres can do.

The Forum theatre in my constituency faces an uncertain future because it has reinforced autoclaved aerated concrete in the roof. It was forced to close while temporary repairs were made, and it was repaired with a temporary lifespan of five years. After a phenomenal campaign by the local community and local councillors pushed the local council to provide funding, the theatre is thankfully back open and back at the heart of the Romiley community.

Last April, the estimates for the cost of the work to fully remove the RAAC panels at the Forum and deliver a permanent fix was forecast to be up to £2 million. The work involves removing the current roof coverings, removing each of the RAAC panels individually and disposing of them, and then creating a new roof structure and making it watertight. Although the work will disrupt activities at the theatre, it is crucial to securing the long-term future of a beloved community asset.

The Forum theatre is owned by Stockport council. We all know there is a crisis in local government funding, and local councils across the country, including my Stockport council, have to deal with severe budgetary constraints. Simply put, Stockport council does not have the funds for the necessary building renovations at the Forum theatre to permanently remove the RAAC. Any money invested in local councils to support our cultural landmarks is undoubtedly well spent and will pay dividends.

Peak Forest and Macclesfield Canals

Debate between Lisa Smart and Jim Shannon

Wednesday 6th November 2024 Westminster Hall

[Lisa Smart (Hazel Grove) (LD)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered funding for Peak Forest and Macclesfield canals.

I rise to speak about a subject close to my heart: our beautiful canals, including the magnificent 16-lock flight in Marple. Our canals are not just waterways. They are part of our national story and are deeply woven into the fabric of our community. They are remarkable pieces of living heritage that we must protect, and protecting them is one of my three asks of the Minister today.

I want us to protect our canals as precious green corridors and as a direct link with our nation’s and my community’s proud industrial heritage. I want our canals to be funded as a critical part of our infrastructure. I want us to value our canals. We should look at them as assets to be cherished, not simply as liabilities to be managed.

The Peak Forest canal, one of Britain’s most scenic waterways, runs alongside the River Goyt for much of its length. The Macclesfield canal is a historic link between Manchester and the midlands. They are both jewels of our waterways. They are where they are because of the Stockport mills—notably Mellor mill, which was the largest cotton-spinning mill in the world in its time—and the Derbyshire quarries. We can still see that heritage along the canals, with Unity mill in Woodley, Romiley board mill and Goyt mill in Marple.

As the canals cross through Marple, they make up 5 km of designated conservation areas. Each lock on the Marple flight is grade II listed, meaning that it is protected as an area of special interest. The Marple aqueduct, itself a historic landmark, is the highest in England and is a grade I listed structure. Protecting these landmarks costs money. With 16 locks, and with lock gates costing approximately £150,000 each because they have to be hand-crafted, the bills quickly add up.

Back in 2012, all British Waterways’ assets and responsibilities in England and Wales were transferred to a newly founded charity, the Canal and River Trust. Unfortunately, these heritage and community treasures now face an uncertain future. Alongside the regular care and maintenance of the canals and the 71 large reservoirs that feed them, the CRT has had to tackle significant work such as the extensive restoration project for Toddbrook reservoir, which supplies both the Peak Forest and Macclesfield canals. After a partial failure in 2019, the repairs came at a hefty cost of £15 million. Such massive efforts highlight just how vulnerable this vital infrastructure is.

Funding changes made by the previous Conservative Government, which will mean cuts of 5% a year for 10 years, will drain nearly £300 million from the trust. Those reductions will undoubtedly undermine the trust’s ability to sustain the canal network. I fear that that will make the closure of those treasured public spaces sadly inevitable, unless something changes.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I commend the hon. Lady for securing the debate. She is presenting a lovely visual account of her constituency. Based on what she says and on what I observe, the potential for tourism, for the betterment of the environment and for people living across the community has not yet been realised. Does she agree that there is so much to gain that perhaps the Government should search their pockets and find the extra money?

[Lisa Smart]

I am grateful for the hon. Gentleman’s point about potential not yet realised. I will highlight later in my speech some of the uses of our canals, but there is an awful lot more that we could be doing. I encourage the Government to look at the canals in the round and consider what they could do for the environment, for tourism, for health and for our communities, as well as how they make it easier for people to walk to work the most direct way. I completely agree with the hon. Gentleman.

I am a proud and long-standing trustee of the Stockport Canal Boat Trust for Disabled People; I refer all colleagues to my registered interests. I cannot overstate the joy, the serenity and the community value that can be found in spending time cruising at a maximum speed of 4 mph. The trust operates the New Horizons, a fully accessible 72-foot narrowboat run by volunteers that offers passengers of all abilities time to enjoy our canals. While cruising, we see families walking their dogs and enjoying nature. We see joggers, we see cyclists and, as I said to the hon. Gentleman, we see people simply using the towpath as the most direct route to walk to work.

Beyond their cultural and historical significance, the waterways are crucial for nature, for wellbeing and for combating climate change. They provide a vital habitat for wildlife and serve as a natural green corridor connecting diverse ecosystems that are bursting with biodiversity. Canals also play a really important role in water management, reducing flood risk and increasing climate resilience. Problems with reservoirs are problems for all of us.

For health and wellbeing, canals offer an unparalleled sanctuary. Our waterways are freely accessible and provide opportunities for walking, cycling and relaxation in green spaces. At a time when public health concerns are high and when such spaces in urban and suburban areas are scarce, they deliver a cost-saving gift to the NHS. Research suggests that that gift amounts to more than £1 billion a year.

Our canal towpaths are often flat by design and can offer accessible physical and mental health benefits to many, as my constituents in Hazel Grove know well. After securing this debate, I asked for stories about how the canal had touched their lives. I was moved by the overwhelming response: I received more than 100 messages in only a couple of days. Older community members shared how they find solace and companionship in walking along the towpaths. Parents and grandparents spoke of the joy of exploring the canals with their children and grandchildren. One resident shared how walks along the canal were crucial to recovery after a heart attack and a major cancer operation: the serenity and beauty of the canal were key to their healing.

For many, the canals are an escape from traffic pollution and noise. They are a sanctuary of peace amid a busy world. Imagine looking at them as part of the solution—as a way to encourage people out of their cars, rather than as problems to be managed and towpaths to be fixed.

I want to make the case for the 16-lock flight in Marple to be designated as a world heritage site. It is an extraordinary testament to our industrial and engineering heritage that represents a pivotal era in Britain’s industrial past. Such recognition would not only attract global interest and boost local tourism, but ensure that the locks are protected and celebrated for generations to come. I am committed to working closely with our local community, with heritage experts and with international bodies to make that vision a reality and ensure that the locks get the recognition they truly deserve.

I ask the Minister to protect our canals, to fund our canals and to value our canals. They are assets. With a bit of creative, holistic thinking, they could do so much more: they could save money for the NHS and for our transport budget, instead of simply being liabilities to be managed.