Disabled People: Publicly Accessible Amenities

Debate between Lisa Cameron and Marcus Jones

Thursday 23rd February 2017 Westminster Hall

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government (Mr Marcus Jones)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Ms Buck. I begin by thanking the hon. Member for East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow (Dr Cameron)—I got a nod there, which is a good sign—for bringing this important issue forward for debate. I know that as chair of the all-party parliamentary group for disability, she has a particular interest in issues that have an impact on disabled people.

We need public amenities in the right place. We want to be sure they are well managed, clean and open, and we need to find toilets with the right layout for our needs. I will focus my comments on the issues that the hon. Lady mentioned in relation to facilities for disabled people. I will also try to answer some of the wider questions that have been raised.

First, I will talk about building regulations, which play an extremely important role in ensuring that facilities are available for disabled people. The aim of building regulation requirements is to ensure that toilet layouts work for as many people as possible. The first building regulations on accessibility were introduced in 1984, and requirements have been updated regularly to ensure that new building work takes the needs of disabled people into account. Building regulations already set out minimum standards for accessible toilets in most public buildings. That includes standards for unisex accessible toilets even in small buildings and additional provision in larger buildings.

Because people’s needs and expectations evolve over time, my Department has commissioned a research project to look at the existing standards in part M of the building regulations. That research is looking at how well standards perform in meeting the needs of disabled people. The finalised report will help us to establish where a change to guidance is necessary and how guidance on accessible toilet provision might evolve to suite a range of needs. I understand that consistency of provision is important and that even small changes in layout, such as the position of wash basins or the omission of features such as shelves or coat hooks, can become awkward. Another area that may need to be considered is compliance with the requirements.

The number of people who need specialised toilet accommodation has increased in line with broader demographic and social change. We recognise that the availability of facilities such as Changing Places helps people to plan activities away from home. It is heartening to see that here in the UK, we have developed a new generation of accessible toilets, most commonly known as Changing Places. That model is now even being followed by other countries such as Australia and Germany.

Several hon. Members mentioned Changing Places, and I think we can all agree that having more Changing Places is a good thing. They provide an adult changing bench, a hoist, washing facilities and space for carers and users to use the facilities safely. Part M of the building regulations, entitled “Access to and use of buildings”, was amended in 2013 to refer to Changing Places toilets as desirable and to provide links to information on their installation and use developed by the Changing Places Consortium. However, building regulations are not retrospective, and building control relates primarily to new buildings or works that involve major refurbishment. They do not apply to all buildings, so railway stations, airports and ports fall outside building control. Important locations such as high streets may not see the major development that would trigger building regulation requirements.

In his evidence to the Women and Equalities Committee, my hon. Friend the Minister for Housing and Planning said that we need a mixed economy in increasing provision. He is determined to look at the evidence we are now gathering to see what more needs to be done to provide the facilities needed for people with disabilities.

I am pleased to say that my Department has worked for the past 10 years, and continues to work, to encourage more Changing Places. We are working closely with Mencap, the British Toilet Association, PAMIS and the Changing Places campaign. The Government have supported great progress, which at the moment has been mainly on a voluntary basis.

Since the Department for Communities and Local Government became involved with Changing Places toilets in 2007, the number of Changing Places in the UK has increased from around 140 to 926 today. In March 2016 the figure was 813, and it is now 926, so we can see that the take-up is quite considerable and that momentum is growing.

We have also funded the development of a website to help people find the nearest Changing Places toilet quickly and easily. Using the site, anyone can find a Changing Places toilet on their planned route or wherever they are. However, I take on board the comment of my hon. Friend the Member for Warwick and Leamington (Chris White); we certainly need more Changing Places, because they are not available in every place that people might want to visit or across the transport network.

It is great to see my hon. Friend the Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work on the Front Bench today, listening intently to this debate. I know that she raised the issue of access and accessible toilets for disabled people at a Premier League event last autumn. At the time, only three premier league clubs had Changing Places facilities. That has now risen to five clubs with registered facilities and two further clubs with similar unregistered facilities. I understand that 10 other clubs are now looking into the issue to see what further action they can take, following significant work from the Changing Places Consortium and others.

Of course, other legislation supports the provision of more publicly available disabled toilets. Section 20 of the Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1976, for example, gives local authorities the power to require toilets to be provided and maintained for public use in any place that provides entertainment, exhibitions or sporting events, and places serving food and drink for consumption on the premises. Environmental health officers review plans and premises’ licence applications, which includes advising on whether the sanitary facilities provided are sufficient in number, design and—most crucially in the context of our debate—layout. Once buildings are in use, there are duties on employers and service providers under the Equality Act 2010, which has helped to ensure that the needs of disabled people are anticipated and catered for.

Through the planning system, local authorities can also impose requirements or negotiate with developers to ensure that enhanced accessible toilets such as Changing Places are brought forward in new large-scale developments or in buildings with strategic importance. Furthermore, the Department for Work and Pensions has taken forward initiatives on the wider accessibility agenda, such as the accessibility hack, which explores ways to harness technology, people power and its work with sector champions to tackle the issues that disabled people face as customers.

Figures for the spending power of people with disabilities were mentioned on a number of occasions, which is a very important point. The figure I have is that people with disabilities and their families have £250 billion to spend. That reinforces the reason why people developing new shopping centres, motorway services and so on should really think about providing proper facilities, particularly Changing Places, that would be supported by customers with disabilities and their families.

I will answer as many of the specific questions asked by hon. Members as I can. The hon. Member for East Kilbride—I will not push it any further; I will call her constituency just “East Kilbride” from now on—asked whether anything was being done to improve access at DWP buildings where work capability assessments are undertaken. I can tell her that improvements are taking place to assessment centres and DWP offices. While I am on that subject, it is important to refer again to the Green Paper and the work on health, which has been consulted on. The Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work is looking at a number of reforms, particularly changes to the work capability assessment, with the aim of ensuring that we have far better data so that we cut down on the number of assessments that are needed in the first place. As I understand it, that would also help with the assessments for personal independence payment.

The hon. Lady made several points about accessibility for disabled people on public transport. That is a very important issue. We have all seen the recent stories and been shocked at some of the things that have happened. Transport is clearly a very important issue. My counterparts at the Department for Transport have recently given evidence to the Women and Equalities Committee inquiry on disability and the built environment. We are looking closely at how transport services can be improved. I will write to the hon. Lady to set out the Government’s position in more detail, and I will also write to the hon. Member for St Helens South and Whiston (Marie Rimmer) on that point.

The hon. Member for East Kilbride also mentioned what plans there were to increase access and asked about a UK accessibility delivery plan. This is quite a challenging area, because there are many issues that relate to the UK Government, but there are also many issues—for example, building regulations and transport policy—that directly relate to the UK Government only here in England and to the devolved Administrations in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. The hon. Lady made a very good point. The Minister for Housing and Planning recently gave evidence for the Women and Equalities Committee inquiry on disability and the built environment. The Committee has expressed an interest in the possibility of a more strategic approach, as the hon. Lady advocated, and we will certainly look at those recommendations closely.

The hon. Lady asked what powers we can use to ensure compliance. Compliance with building regulations, for example, is a legal requirement. Non-compliance can result in fines, which can be unlimited. Compliance with the Equality Act 2010 is certainly also a legal duty—perhaps we need to remind service providers that that is a duty, not an option. That is a very important message that we can send from the House today. We consider the public sector equality duty carefully and expect every public body to consider it in undertaking its work. Again, that is not an option but a requirement.

My hon. Friend the Member for Warwick and Leamington made very important points. I was pleased to hear about the new lifts being installed at Warwick train station. I do not like to say that my own constituency of Nuneaton is in front of Warwick, but we have had lifts at our station for many years. It is really good to hear that, at Warwick, lifts are being installed to support people who have disabilities and need access to lifts because of things such as wheelchairs.

My hon. Friend also talked about putting Changing Places on a statutory footing and requiring Changing Places to be provided. I hear what he says. As I said before, we have commissioned research, and we will look carefully at its findings. The Minister for Housing and Planning will then look carefully at the point that my hon. Friend makes.

In relation to the comments by the hon. Member for North Ayrshire and Arran (Patricia Gibson), we are working on improving the issues to do with Motability vehicles, particularly as regards appeals.

The hon. Member for St Helens South and Whiston asked a question about elected office. We are working across political parties on this matter. All political parties have signed up to the Disability Confident work, on which the DWP is leading. I am informed by the Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work that we are also looking forward to introducing measures to ensure that we enable people with disabilities to hold elected office, which is extremely important. We do not have in this place enough people with disabilities, who have more depth of understanding of these issues when they are spoken about here. The same goes for people who represent their local areas on local authorities, and I will certainly be keen to work on that with my hon. Friend, who is here representing the DWP.

[Dr Cameron]

The Minister has given a thorough response so far. Given that a number of research and evaluation projects are under way, would he be able to come to the all-party parliamentary group for disability to update us on the progress being made in that regard and to inform us directly about the way forward?

[Mr Jones]

The hon. Lady makes a very good point. It is always a bit risky to put a colleague in the frame to undertake a meeting, but I will certainly bring that point to the attention of the Minister for Housing and Planning, who is always keen to engage with organisations in relation to his area of responsibility.

This is an extremely important issue. We should always take into account the needs of disabled people, and particularly the accessibility of public buildings, public toilets and Changing Places. We look forward to continuing a collaborative approach not just with hon. Members from both sides of the House, but with a number of voluntary and charitable organisations that I have mentioned today. I thank the hon. Member for East Kilbride for bringing these important issues to the House.

[Dr Cameron]

I thank all hon. Members who have taken part in this debate, and I thank the Backbench Business Committee for enabling it. It would be helpful if a Minister could attend the all-party parliamentary group for disability to update us on the research. I am keen to take that forward.

We did not have a chance to speak about building regulations, but I am keen to understand how the refurbishment of the Palace of Westminster will be undertaken in relation to accessibility. Perhaps we can also look at that issue. I have previously spoken to the Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work on the Floor of the House about the possibility of allowing home visits where DWP offices are not accessible.

I thank everybody for taking part in this debate. We will certainly continue to look at this issue.

[Mr Jones]

I thank the hon. Lady for giving way—I had plenty of time to speak, but I just want to make two more points. First, my hon. Friend the Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work is looking at the refurbishment of the Palace, and I am sure she will have a discussion with the hon. Lady about it. Secondly, on building regulations and the work that that the all-party group is doing, my officials are engaged with officials in the Scottish Government on those matters.

[Dr Cameron]

To conclude, it is important that we take these issues forward across the nations and Governments of the United Kingdom to ensure that there is not a postcode lottery for people with disability. We must work together in a progressive way to ensure accessibility for all.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House has considered publicly accessible amenities for disabled people.