Banking in North Ayrshire

Lisa Cameron Excerpts

Wednesday 14th March 2018 Commons Chamber

[Patricia Gibson]

My hon. Friend is absolutely correct. RBS has informed me that in my constituency, North Ayrshire and Arran, it will replace the branches in Kilwinning, Saltcoats and Kilbirnie with mobile banks. That is completely unsatisfactory. The mobile banks are delayed by the weather and by traffic and they are not disability compliant. Apparently, the advice is that if someone is disabled, immobile or has a mobility impairment and cannot access the mobile bank, the banking teller will come out and they can do their banking in the middle of the street. Well, that’s okay, then! It is absolutely shocking.

[Dr Lisa Cameron (East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow) (SNP)]

My hon. Friend is making an extremely passionate speech. The all-party group on disability, which I chair, is going to launch an inquiry into community banking for people with disabilities and mobility problems. My constituents who have mobility problems and live in Strathaven and Lesmahagow, where RBS plans to close the banks, feel particularly let down. They feel that no appropriate services will be available.

[Patricia Gibson]

Indeed; I shall come in a little while to the importance of providing accessible and sustainable banking services in all our communities and for the needs of all our communities, including for those of us who cannot get to the next town because of lack of our own transport or of public transport, or because of other mobility issues.

Community Bank Closures

Lisa Cameron Excerpts

Thursday 8th February 2018 Commons Chamber

[Phil Wilson (Sedgefield) (Lab)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent North (Ruth Smeeth) and the hon. Member for Hazel Grove (Mr Wragg) on securing the debate.

At the end of June, four bank branches will close in my constituency of Sedgefield. NatWest is closing two branches, one in Ferryhill and one in Newton Aycliffe, Santander is to close its branch in Newton Aycliffe, which is just across the street from the NatWest branch that is to close, and Barclays is to close its branch in Sedgefield village. This recent round of closures will deprive every community in my constituency of a bank branch except Newton Aycliffe, which will still have a Halifax, a Barclays and a TSB. It is the biggest town in the constituency, with about 30,000 people living there. The local post office still operates in these communities and offers banking facilities, but it is hardly the place to discuss banking issues such as mortgages or loans. Sedgefield is a rural constituency, with up to 40 towns, villages and hamlets over 150 square miles. The bus network is not what it should be and it is difficult to get around without a car or other means of transport.

Much banking is now done online, on a mobile app, or on the telephone, but there are still those in our communities who need to be able to walk into their local bank branch because they are not online or do not have access to a telephone or mobile, especially the elderly. I know that the banks that are closing branches in my constituency say that they recognise those concerns. NatWest, for example, has a network of community bankers—I believe the number is 1,000—around the country who will be deployed to reach out to and support vulnerable customers when a branch is closed.

All the banks have pointed out to me that how people do their banking has changed radically over the past few years. NatWest told me that the number of people using its branch network has fallen by 40% since 2014. In the same period, mobile transactions have increased by 73% and, in the first half of 2017, 1.1 billion mobile and online transactions were carried out by the bank’s customers. Since 2012, in the two NatWest branches in my constituency, 88% of the customers in Ferryhill and 89% of the customers in Newton Aycliffe have banked in other ways. Transactions at the Ferryhill branch have fallen by 30% and at Newton Aycliffe the figure was 34%. The number of customers using both branches has fallen to between 60 and 100 a week, although whenever I speak to customers who use the branches they always say that there are queues and that they are busy. The reality for customers seems to be completely different from the statistics revealed by the branch. It is a similar story with Santander in Newton Aycliffe. Santander says that 91% of customers use other means of banking besides walking into the local branch. Some 45% use other Santander branches and 40% use their mobiles to do online banking.

I used to live near Sedgefield village, and I can always remember there being a Barclays bank there. I asked how long a branch had been there and was told that there had been a Barclays in that same building in Sedgefield for nearly 100 years. Now, Barclays says that 74% of its customers use other forms of banking. Of 5,000 customers, 22% use the branch exclusively for their banking. Barclays has identified 200 people it considers vulnerable and tells me that it is proactively contacting them to help with their future banking needs. Overall, the number of transactions at the branch has fallen by 17%, whereas in the wider region the fall has been 12%.

Banks such as Barclays, NatWest and others that are closing branches should report how many vulnerable customers they have been able to retain or how many have gone on to other banking mechanisms and systems, to ensure that they are not financially excluded. If they did that, we would be able to take a snapshot of how many people are becoming financially excluded because of closures.

[Dr Lisa Cameron (East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow) (SNP)]

The hon. Gentleman is giving a fine speech. Does he agree that the large number of closures throughout the United Kingdom have badly affected elderly constituents and those who are disabled? Soon, there will be no banks within large radiuses around most of our towns and people will resort to putting money under the bed again, just as they had to do in my grandmother’s day. The humanity has gone out of banking.

[Phil Wilson]

The hon. Lady makes a valid point. There has to be a social conscience in banking, and it should not just be for the public sector to sort out. The private sector has to be part of it.

We cannot deny the growing trend in banking being done online and by mobile phone and telephone. Barclays pointed out to me that on average its customers use mobile banking more than 28 times a month and visit a branch less than twice a month. The bank carries out 12 digital transactions a second and, since 2014, has started to use video banking.

The way we bank is changing, and it is not just a UK phenomenon; it is happening across mainland Europe, too. According to data from the House of Commons Library, by the end of 2016, the number of bank branches in Germany had fallen to something like 32,000, which was a reduction of nearly 6% on the year before. In France, where there has been more robust opposition to branch closures—apparently, it is more difficult to close branches in France than elsewhere—Société Générale has announced the closure of 20% of its branch network by 2020. That bank is going to close one in five branches. However, the French bank branch network is still extensive, with six branches per 10,000 head of population, which I believe is the highest proportion in the EU. In Spain, 10,000 branches were closed between 2012 and 2016. Banking is changing, driven by technology that is obviously convenient to the vast majority of customers.

I would like the Minister to address two areas of concern. First, what more can the Government do and what work are they undertaking with the financial sector to encourage banks to look after their vulnerable customers so that they are not left behind? There is also a wider concern. Rural areas, such as County Durham, are seeing the destruction of rural bus services and there are issues with whether broadband provision is sufficient to allow customers to access the internet and therefore access online banking in the first place.

Secondly, the closure of bank branches highlights a key problem that faces our town centres. For example, the future of Newton Aycliffe town centre has been controversial for many years. Although Freshwater, the shopping centre’s owner, has invested in the centre and won awards for its efforts, the closure of two bank branches will only add to the number of already vacant shops. This is not a story reserved for Newton Aycliffe; it is true of town centres throughout the country. Town centres need to be more leisure-focused, with bars, restaurants and coffee shops, as retail moves online, where people are more likely to shop—with Amazon being a case in point. As a consequence, we see many retailers quitting jobs and issuing profit warnings. I make this request to the banking sector: look at how you can change your offer on the high street; look at how you can make the physical bank presence more affordable and more accessible; and look at whether there is a way to merge banking with leisure, such as, for example, placing bank branches within a café.

The closure of banks does not happen in isolation. It affects vulnerable people, it affects our town centres and it affects our communities and their way of life. The banks must remember that, although there is a trend with new technology towards online banking, other people can be left behind; and there is a life that is offline as well as online. All I ask is for the banks to think creatively, because they, too, have a social obligation to their customers, not just to their bottom line.

RBS Rural Branch Closures

Lisa Cameron Excerpts

Monday 18th December 2017 Commons Chamber

[Ian Blackford]

I will come on to that aspect, but I must apologise that to get through my remarks, I will not take any interventions for the rest of my speech.

I received the numbers that I issued a couple of minutes ago from RBS two weeks ago. I have asked repeatedly for the relevant figures for all the branches in Scotland that are earmarked for closure. RBS has refused to release the figures. It has published figures for bank use detailing only those that use the bank every week of the year. According to RBS, only 11 customers use Mallaig on a weekly basis, 27 visit Beauly and 51 use Kyle. We know the reality. As opposed to the 51 regular customers trumpeted for Kyle, there are actually 25,000 transactions. If we focused on the so-called 51 customers, we might be sympathetic to the demands from RBS to close the bank, yet the fact that there are 25,000 transactions a year allows me to conclude that the branch is still relatively busy.

Why doesn’t RBS come clean and tell us the number of transactions in all the threatened branches? I ask the Minister to put pressure on Royal Bank of Scotland to come clean and tell us the truth about the number of transactions in all the branches in Scotland and throughout the United Kingdom. It is a disgrace that RBS has not released the full figures and I stand here asking RBS to do so publicly: do not hide behind so-called commercial confidentiality; it simply will not wash.

[Dr Lisa Cameron (East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow) (SNP)]

Will my right hon. Friend give way?

[Ian Blackford]

One last time.

[Dr Cameron]

I have been contacted by extremely vulnerable constituents regarding the closures that are planned for Strathaven and Lesmahagow, including those with learning disabilities and disabled members of the community who find it difficult to travel or use the internet. Does my right hon. Friend not think that RBS is letting down the most vulnerable in our constituencies?

[Ian Blackford]

My hon. Friend makes a valid point. That brings me back to why I hope RBS reflects on what it has done. It has simply gone too far. Let us work together to protect the interests of our communities, and particularly the vulnerable citizens within them.

RBS has given the figures for three branches in my constituency. It should publish the others and let us see the full picture of the demand for branch banking. Let us have an honest debate. RBS needs to be transparent. I can tell RBS that people in all the affected communities are angry and want it to engage properly with them. RBS has simply not thought this through properly.

There has been no public consultation on the closure plans. Why not? Yesterday in the Sunday Mail, RBS stated:

“We are not required to consult with communities in advance.”

It went on to say:

“We find that many customers wished they had used other ways to bank earlier when they get comfortable.”

The sheer arrogance of those statements is breathtaking. Let me say clearly to RBS: customers want to use branch banking; stop spinning and treat customers with respect.

I thank the Unite union, which has been in touch with me over the past few days. I state publicly that I will work with Unite and the workforce to seek to limit job losses. Here again, RBS has to come clean. I am indebted to an RBS whistleblower who has contacted me in the light of public statements that RBS has made. It is claimed by RBS that the full-time equivalent job losses in Scotland are 165. I am informed that the actual number of workers being cut is 321. I am told UK-wide the figure is 1,446 jobs against the 685 on a full-time equivalent basis that has been published. The expected redundancies across the UK in a worst-case scenario are 971, including 97% of the 216 customer service officers in the branches affected; 86% of the 246 associate personal bankers; 84% of the 126 customer service managers; and 49% of the personal bankers. It is clear that the chances of redeployment within the RBS network will be slim for a lot of staff members.

Those figures are in a paper forwarded to me in a document about restructuring the branch network. I have told RBS I have been given details of the figures contained within the report. RBS is not only turning its backs on its customers—it is turning its back on its staff members. We are talking about valuable jobs in the rural economy. We are talking about a loss of opportunities for young people in rural economies. The leaked report goes on to say:

“Our personal banking strategy is to give our customers choice and offer outstanding service that is effortless every day and brilliant when it matters.”

I do wonder who could write such meaningless management-speak. When branches are closed, there is a withdrawal of service. Spinning to say outstanding service is being delivered is simply unacceptable. RBS has even had the gall to say customers would get a better service. How? One suggestion from RBS is to use post offices. In Munlochy on the Black Isle, RBS shut its branch. “Not to worry,” it said, “you can use the post office.” The only problem was that the post office shut six months later. Somewhere along the line, RBS has to take responsibility for its own customers and not pass the right of service on to a third party. They are RBS customers.

The intended closure of the branch in Castlebay in Barra would be funny if it was not so serious. There will be no bank on the island of Barra. It reminds me of the line from “Whisky Galore”, the Ealing comedy: “There is no whisky.” The cruelty in this case is that there will be no bank. The journalist Rita Campbell of the Press and Journal made a trip last week from Barra to the nearest bank in Lochboisdale, a journey of 62 miles, including a six-mile ferry crossing. It took seven hours and 10 minutes to reach Lochboisdale and return to Barra. How can RBS treat its customers in such a shameful way? RBS must reverse the closure of the branch in Barra and elsewhere.

We must also press the UK Government to accept their responsibilities. Collectively, we own RBS. Above all else, RBS was saved to provide banking services to our communities. We paid a heavy price to bail out RBS. There are taxpayers in every community that is threatened with the ending of banking services. Can I ask the Minister what notice the Government were given, as the majority shareholder, of the closure plans? What discussions have the Government had with RBS? Will the Government summon Ross McEwan, the chief executive officer, to the Treasury and tell RBS that in the interests of all our communities the closure plan must be stopped? It will not wash.

The Government have to accept their responsibilities as the majority shareholder. I say to the Minister: do not rise to your feet and tell us it cannot be done, it is a commercial decision and the Government cannot intervene. The Government have intervened before. When it was announced that Stephen Hester, the previous CEO, was leaving RBS, the then Chancellor George Osborne was interviewed on the “Today” programme and said the following:

“Let’s be clear, it was a decision of Stephen Hester and the board but, of course, as the person who represents the taxpayer interest, and we have got a huge stake in the Royal Bank of Scotland because the previous government put a huge amount of taxpayers’ money into it, of course my consent and approval was sought.”

Just dwell on the words:

“my consent and approval was sought.”

It was right for the Government to give their approval on a member of the management team and it is right for the Government to give their approval or not on decisions that would remove access to branch banking from many of our citizens. It is clear that the Government can act. The Government must act. A failure to halt is a failure to act in the national interest and the interest of our citizens. It would, Minister, be an abrogation of responsibility.

Yesterday, the Secretary of State for Scotland—I can see him sitting on the Front Bench, and I welcome him to the debate—was quoted in the Sunday Mail. He said:

“Branches are a lifeline for many people, especially in rural areas. RBS needs to remember its responsibilities to customers and reconsider these harmful moves.”

On this occasion, I agree with the Secretary of State, and I hope that he will join me in asking the Government to take their responsibilities seriously. If the office of Secretary of State for Scotland has any authority, this call from the Secretary of State must result in a halt being called to the plans. Does the Secretary of State for Scotland have any authority with the Treasury? Will the Minister act tonight? Call in the RBS management and put a stop to these closures.

Tonight, the Minister has it in his gift to listen to these calls and act. Stand up and be counted or, like RBS, the UK Government will be turning their back on our constituents.

Budget Resolutions

Lisa Cameron Excerpts

Wednesday 22nd November 2017 Commons Chamber

[Rachel Reeves (Leeds West) (Lab)]

It is a privilege to follow the hon. Member for Mid Bedfordshire (Ms Dorries).

I fear that today’s Budget delivers more of the same. It does very little to help people in the everyday economy who are struggling to get by—struggling to get a foot on the housing ladder, to grow their business, or to gain security in work. I shall focus on two aspects of the Budget. I shall deal first with GDP and productivity, and secondly, like the hon. Lady, with housing supply and house prices.

The biggest influence on our standard of living—on whether we can afford to pay the bills, on how we are doing, and on whether our families can get on and do better than the previous generation—is how fast the economy is growing, and in the context of that most important metric, I think we can regard the Budget only as a failure of Government economic policy. For every single year of the forecast period, economic growth has been revised downwards, and that is not from particularly high levels in the first place. There has been a further downward revision since March this year, which is very worrying for many families in all our constituencies. I believe that, by 2022, GDP will be 2.7% lower than was predicted in March, and about 80% of the downgrade is due to lower productivity during that period. Productivity is now expected to be 27% lower than it would have been if it had continued to grow at its pre-crisis levels.

That is incredibly worrying. If we are to compete with countries throughout the world in the years to come, and to do so outside the European Union, we desperately need to boost our productivity, our research and development, our business investment and our investment in infrastructure. However, all the data and all the numbers published today by the Office for Budget Responsibility suggest that we are doing exactly the opposite. We are going in the wrong direction with those most important economic numbers relating to GDP and productivity. Our productivity is already 20% behind that of the United States, Japan and Germany, and we simply cannot afford to have further productivity downgrades.

Of course, downgrades in our GDP and productivity also have a real effect on Government borrowing and debt. Over the forecast period—the next five years—the productivity downgrade adds a staggering £90 billion to our borrowing trajectory. That is incredibly worrying, given its effect on not only living standards, but the public finances. We are simply not able to invest the money that we need to invest in universal credit, infrastructure, our national health service and our schools, because we are not delivering on the requirement for productive, well-paid jobs. The Government must take responsibility for that.

I look forward to the industrial strategy White Paper, which will, I hope, be published next week, but I must tell the Government that it will have to be a lot better than the Green Paper that we saw earlier in the year, which was incredibly disappointing and simply will not deliver the productivity performance that we need. It is 18 months since the Government’s productivity strategy, and since then every single estimate of productivity has been downward, not upward. What a missed opportunity, and what a failed strategy.

[Dr Lisa Cameron (East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow) (SNP)]

The hon. Lady is making an extremely powerful speech. Does she agree that productivity will never increase while we continue to exclude important parts of society? The industrial strategy does not mention disabled people, and neither did the Chancellor today. The Budget simply is not inclusive.

[Rachel Reeves]

That is a very good point. If we are to ensure that everyone benefits from a growing economy—we just about have growth, but not very much of it—we must have an inclusive economy and an inclusive economic strategy that works for every member of all our communities.

The Government might respond by saying, “It’s okay Labour Members. There is a productivity investment fund worth £7 billion.” “Hurray,” we all say, but the money will not start until 2022-23. Why on earth do we have to wait five years for a productivity investment fund? We all recognise the desperate need to improve our productivity, so why wait five years before putting money and support into doing that? I should have thought that it would be an urgent priority for the Budget, not something that could be kicked down the road for five years.

Let me now deal with the issue of housing. I am afraid that I am much less optimistic about the Government’s plans than the hon. Member for Mid Bedfordshire, because over the last hour or so, I have been looking at the Office for Budget Responsibility’s “Economic and fiscal outlook”. I know that not everyone likes to listen to experts, but I am one of those people who still think that they are worth listening to. If we believe what the experts at the OBR are saying, all the housing measures—not just the stamp duty measure—in the Budget will increase house prices by 0.3%, and there will be no change in the supply of housing compared with that set out at the March Budget. Notwithstanding all today’s fanfare, the OBR’s verdict, which is on page 53 of its document, is that there will be no change in supply, just an increase in house prices, which is the exact opposite of what we need if we are to ensure that more young people and families can get on to the housing ladder. Although I think we all share that objective, it is not met by the measures that have been announced today.

HMRC Closures

Lisa Cameron Excerpts

Thursday 2nd November 2017 Westminster Hall

[Dr Lisa Cameron (East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow) (SNP)]

It is an absolute pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Davies. I am extremely grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch East (Stuart C. McDonald) for securing this important debate through the Backbench Business Committee. He made a thorough and detailed analysis of what is an appalling situation for our constituencies—particularly in Scotland. Many thousands of people face losing their jobs at HMRC, in a significant blow to local employment and our local economies.

Before the debate, I looked at some of the points made by my hon. Friend the Member for Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch East in his speech, and I discussed them with HMRC staff. We wrote a letter to the Minister’s Department about the closure of Centre 1 in my constituency and the associated tax offices. The talent pipeline cuts very deep, despite the suggestion that we do not have one, and I assure the Minister that there is an extraordinarily skilled and talented workforce in my constituency and throughout the other centres that are being cut.

My constituency is home to one of Scotland’s best known tax offices, Centre 1, which we want to keep there. It is named Centre 1 because it was to be Scotland’s centre for tax collection. In my constituency, it is synonymous with tax affairs, our skilled workforce and our families’ livelihoods. Like most local people, I have friends and family members who work for HMRC in the tax office. It is vital to my constituency, and the very idea that it could leave is absolutely devastating to all.

Staff members to whom I have spoken have voiced real concerns about the closures. They worry about the impact of staffing reductions on their ability to do their job well. They worry about having to travel to a new and unknown site, and about the difficulty of finding childcare or disability parking, given increased time away from home for part-time workers and others. They are also significantly concerned about the lack of consultation.

When the proposals were first mooted in the previous Parliament, I met the Treasury and was reassured that I would at least be kept up to date with what was happening about lease proposals. I have heard nothing since and have had to submit parliamentary questions to tease out the information, which I continue to chase. It feels as though my constituency and our workers are being ignored. They do not deserve that, because they have served the United Kingdom in terms of tax revenues so well for so many years.

I entirely agree with the comments of the hon. Member for Keighley (John Grogan) about impact assessments, which are crucial. I cannot understand why such assessments have not been undertaken. In the previous Parliament, I asked the Secretary of State for Scotland about them, but he would give me no reassurances that they would ever be conducted. We are now in the process of conducting our own assessments. That is appalling—surely it is incumbent on the Government to look at the impact that closures and plans might have on communities.

Our HMRC staff are specialists in their field and take great pride in their roles. As has been mentioned, decisions such as the ones we are discussing have a detrimental impact on morale, creating stress, anxiety and sickness absence. HMRC staff should be supported because they do such vital work and the tax income is vital to our public services in general. There is a knock-on effect; we cannot think that lower morale and productivity might have a positive effect on our constituents. We have to invest in the staff, make them feel important and listen to their concerns about what the closures mean for them.

We do not want to see staff uprooted from their established bases and communities and centralised in city-centre offices, which surely cannot be more cost-effective than those in the outskirts of towns. I have yet to hear about lease agreements and arrangements—no update—so it is difficult to make any comprehensive analysis.

My constituency has a “Stay in EK”—East Kilbride—campaign, which is supported by just about everyone locally, whether the media, me, the MSP, local councillors from all parties, the public or HMRC staff. The issue is fundamental for us. I urge the Minister to pause, to have a moratorium, to look at impact assessments and to think about the constituencies that will be devastated by the proposed closures.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mel Stride]

The criteria are there to allow a balanced judgment across the eight criteria as to where the best place is for the regional hubs. That is exactly the approach that HMRC has taken. I fully appreciate that there are Members here who are very unhappy with the fact that there may be some closures in their constituency, but that does not necessarily mean that the criteria are being inappropriately exercised.

[Dr Cameron]

The Minister’s colleagues in Departments such as the Department for International Development feel that East Kilbride in my constituency is an excellent place to have a hub and digital and new services, and has a great talent pool. How does this make sense, because there is surely a contradiction? We do not fit the eight criteria, but for other Departments reaching out and doing excellent work in East Kilbride in the modern age, we meet all the criteria. It simply does not make sense. Why is it more fitting to be in Glasgow than in East Kilbride?

[Mel Stride]

As the hon. Lady knows, a transition office will be kept in East Kilbride; it would certainly not have been there had many of the strengths to which she alluded not been present in the local community. On balance, it has been decided that it is better to go to Glasgow with a hub than to have a similar arrangement in her constituency, but that is not to suggest that there is not a great talent pool in her constituency. It simply means that on balance, under the eight criteria that we reviewed, the best solution we have come to is Glasgow.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mel Stride]

I shall give the hon. Gentleman the same answer I gave to the hon. Member for Stockton South (Dr Williams); I am certainly happy to look into it—although I have now had some divine inspiration, and I believe that the criterion is an hour’s travel time. St Matthew has come to my aid.

Let us not lose sight of the bigger picture. As I have said, the programme is underpinned by the aim of making HMRC a more efficient and effective tax authority. I want to dwell briefly on our record in that area, because what we are doing is part of a broader drive to transform HMRC that has been going on for some years. Its performance has been improving considerably. I have already mentioned that the tax gap is the lowest in our history; it is also one of the lowest tax gaps in the world.

The hon. Member for Bootle bemoaned the Mapeley PFI deal. As I said, it was a Labour Government who put us into that deal, but he is right that there will be considerable savings from not having to continue with the deal, as a consequence of pursuing the current programme.

HMRC has improved customer service. Almost all its business customers now choose to deal with it online, and more than eight out of 10 self-assessment returns come in digitally.

[Dr Cameron]

I thank the Minister for giving way; he is being generous in that regard, at least. Are the cost savings on the Mapeley deal based on current expenditure on that deal or on renegotiation with the organisation?

[Mel Stride]

The cost savings are for an investment of £552 million over 10 years. Firstly, they arise through the avoidance of future costs that would be incurred in the event of our not going ahead with the programme. Those would be the costs of the PFI deal, were we to continue with it. That cost is £75 million per annum—obviously from 2021, when the contract for strategic transfer of the estate to the private sector comes to an end. There is a cost saving of £300 million in the 10 years to 2025. That gives an annual cash saving, as compared with 2016-17, of £74 million in 2025-26, rising to about £90 million in 2026-27.[Official Report, 27 November 2017, Vol. 632, c. 2MC.]

Oral Answers to Questions

Lisa Cameron Excerpts

Tuesday 24th October 2017 Commons Chamber

[Elizabeth Truss]

First, I congratulate my right hon. Friend on her work to promote these issues that she did as Women’s Minister. It would be great to see other professions, such as legal services, looking at the success of the women in finance charter and seeing what they could do. I will urge my colleague to reply to my right hon. Friend’s letter asap.

[Dr Lisa Cameron (East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow) (SNP)]

In addition to the gender pay gap, the disability pay gap remains extraordinarily high, yet disabled people are not mentioned in the Government’s industrial strategy. When will we harness the potential of disabled people in our economy and create policies that effectively show that?

[Elizabeth Truss]

The hon. Lady is absolutely right to highlight the issue of making sure that disabled people have a full opportunity to participate in the economy. The fact is that we are missing out on huge amounts of talent—the talent of disabled people, women and older people—in our economy. We need to unleash that to help our country to become more productive, and also for the sake of those people, who have so much to contribute.

Double Taxation Treaties (Developing Countries) Bill

Lisa Cameron Excerpts

2nd reading: House of Commons
Friday 16th December 2016 Commons Chamber

[Roger Mullin]

I agree entirely. I will respond to that with a slight oversimplification. Let us look at it in this way. If a country has become solely dependent on aid funding for its development and does not have full control of its own taxation and its own mineral resources, what kind of governance structure is set up to accommodate that? It will be about people chasing aid funding, not developing and liberating themselves economically. In some countries, quite a large of part of their administration and democracy is based on managing aid-related matters much less than on managing its own taxation and related matters. Therefore, the infrastructure will benefit through such moves.

I think that the Bill will provide a further advantage for the United Kingdom Government. In another field, I have been trying to persuade the Government to respond to my representations about international criminal activity in Scottish limited partnerships. I am delighted to see that the Financial Secretary is present to respond to the debate, because last week we had what I thought was an extremely constructive meeting about the issue. We recognised that to address the issue of Scottish limited partnerships we had to involve not merely the Treasury but the Home Office and its Criminal Finances Bill, as well as the businesses that would be conducting a consultation. Three different partners would need to be brought together, so that we could begin to create a joined-up approach.

What I am saying, and what my simple Bill is saying, is this. Would it not it be a good idea if those who are responsible for negotiating tax treaties with countries in the developing world had to take reasonable account of our own Government’s international aid policy, because otherwise the Government’s international aid policies, and what they want to achieve in that regard, could be countered in a negative way through the negotiation of tax treaties by others who do not support those aims? It must surely be helpful to governance here, as well as in other countries, to create a system that is much more joined-up. That is surely in everyone’s interests. Who is going to argue against it? Well, my hon. Friends and I can probably predict who, but it seems to me that no rational person could object to a Government’s pursuing their aims in a joined-up and rational manner.

[Dr Lisa Cameron (East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow) (SNP)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on bringing this extremely important issue to our attention. Does he agree that his proposals would also go some way towards creating sustainable jobs and livelihoods in developing countries, an ambition that sits firmly at the heart of the sustainable development goals that the UK Government are signed up to achieve?

[Roger Mullin]

I strongly agree with my hon. Friend. The joined-up approach that I mentioned is not just within Departments; it comes about through international commitments that the Government have made to others. It is therefore good that we sign wider international treaties relating to development.

Concentrix

Lisa Cameron Excerpts

Wednesday 26th October 2016 Commons Chamber

[Ms Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh (Ochil and South Perthshire) (SNP)]

This has, indeed, been a very passionate debate. I would like to take this opportunity—I am sure I speak for all Members on both sides of the House—to thank our staff members in our constituency offices who have had to deal with people who have been at the very end of their tether. Many have had no training and have met people in the most dire circumstances. I would like to place on record our thanks to all the staff of all Members on both sides of the House.

As we know, tax credits are a vital financial lifeline for many families who are struggling to get by on low wages. They allow single mothers and fathers the dignity of work, by ensuring that their income is enough to pay for rent and food and for heat for their homes. Without these payments, families have been plunged into immediate poverty, with all the financial and emotional stress that comes with coping with such a situation.

Despite many parliamentary questions and two debates, we are still no closer to finding out the facts or achieving a proper settlement to this sorry situation. At the same time, families know that their situation was entirely caused by the mistakes of others and as a direct result of faulty administrative processes and procedures, all of which must be fixed. Compensation must be paid.

I would like to refer to a particular case study. A constituent in Alloa was referred to my office just yesterday by the citizens advice bureau. Seven weeks ago, she had her money stopped without warning. She was accused of living with three different partners at the same address at the same time. Advised by Concentrix that she had been sent a letter in May—a letter she said she did not receive—she was then told the evidence she was required to submit. She submitted what she could: two bank statements and a council tax statement. She was told that that was not enough. She could not afford, however, to provide the bank statements requested, as they cost £5 per statement.

The realistic timeline for Concentrix cases needs to be known. Despite the assurances I was given by the Financial Secretary on 14 September, it is still taking around eight weeks from the submission of evidence by those falsely accused by Concentrix for payments to be reinstated. That is two months without vital payments—payments that are stopped without warning and with no good cause.

On the phone yesterday, HMRC advised my office that the burden of proof remains on the individuals accused of claiming tax credits incorrectly, not on the accuser. That is contrary to the laws of natural justice and contrary to the view of the upper tribunal, which has already considered similar issues.

For the Minister’s benefit, I would like to set out a timeline for an individual who is accused. On day one, their money is stopped. They call Concentrix to find out what has happened, and they are advised of what action is needed. It can take days to get an answer. On day two, they start to collate the evidence required. HMRC stated to my staff yesterday that it required the following evidence to establish innocence after making these accusations: bank statements for a period often up to a year; mortgage proof or a rental agreement; a court or solicitor’s letter providing detail of legal separation documents; Child Maintenance Service documents; evidence from the Department for Work and Pensions or Jobcentre Plus to show the benefits claimed, if applicable; car insurance documents; home insurance documents; detailed explanation of the person’s relationship status with the person they are accused of being in a relationship with—in this case, it is three people, two of whom my constituent does not even know; and a letter from the landlord to confirm who lives at the property.

That takes us to day six, when the person sends that evidence to HMRC, if they can afford to bring it together. On day seven, the evidence arrives at the HMRC and Concentrix offices. On day 28, HMRC begins to look at the case. People in previous cases have told us that it would take two to three weeks before the evidence could be looked at, due to a backlog in processing cases. On day 56, the evidence is processed by HMRC. Once the evidence pack is opened by HMRC staff, it takes 15 to 20 days to process. On day 60, there is a positive result—if the person gets a result—as money will be paid to them within four days. That is eight weeks’ processing between the submission of documents and payments being reinstated.

[Dr Lisa Cameron (East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow) (SNP)]

In the intervening period, many of the individuals affected have experienced grave mental health issues. I am aware of at least two cases where people have gone on to self-harm as a result of the stress endured. Does my hon. Friend agree that the targeting of the most vulnerable is not something that should be happening under Government contracts?

[Ms Ahmed-Sheikh]

My hon. Friend makes a very good point. She has huge experience in the area of mental health. I am sure it is a matter of great concern and disturbance to us all to hear that people are resorting to self-harm.

My constituent continues to wait, as HMRC refuses to act until it has received a year’s worth of bank statements that she cannot afford to provide. HMRC did not inform her of the hardship payment. Will the Minister advise us on the guidelines with which HMRC is working in relation to the hardship payment? Is it not offered in all circumstances? Are not all people in positions of hardship once they have had these payments stopped?

In order to support those affected, we must immediately take a number of actions to remove the financial barriers to justice for these victims, and I ask the Minister to consider committing to these today. HMRC should immediately provide a freephone line for victims to use. As things stand, if someone wants to ask a question or appeal a decision, it is up to them to phone the call centre, and that can cost 10p a minute. Some callers have had to wait for hours, as confirmed in many speeches. Over and above this, HMRC should now act to provide a free call-back service for tax credit inquiries. HMRC should also meet the full cost of sending people all documents with postage-paid envelopes so that they can send back the information that is required on the basis of incorrect decisions that have been made on their part. Those changes are achievable, deliverable and fair, and should be implemented without delay. That is the right thing to do in these circumstances.

When this exercise is complete and people have the opportunity to access justice, at no cost to themselves—neither should there be—we can then move our attention on to securing full, fair and proper compensation for all victims, some of whom have lost their jobs and homes as a result of this fiasco.

House of Lords Reform and Size of the House of Commons

Lisa Cameron Excerpts

Wednesday 19th October 2016 Commons Chamber

[Margaret Ferrier]

No, I am not giving way.

Boundary proposals have been issued. Tomorrow, Scottish voters will wake up to the news of a complete reshuffle of Westminster constituencies north of the border and firm proposals to remove six of their MPs. People will rightly be outraged.

It is vital that the Government understand that outrage and acknowledge that frustration. The reason that so many formerly disfranchised voters registered en masse and voted yes in the Scottish independence referendum was that they were fed up with the unrepresentative nature of the democratic process. They felt that Westminster did not speak to them or for them. We stand for doing things the way they ought to be done—for having a vibrant, representative democracy that reflects our diverse society. Those of us in the SNP will never take seats in an appointed Chamber.

Around a quarter of Lords appointments since 1997 have been former MPs who lost elections or resigned. It is no wonder that so many people in the UK feel disillusioned and disfranchised when unsuccessful ex-MPs get returned to our democracy through the back door. Although rejected at the ballot box, the appointed peers are able to collect £300 tax-free per day just for turning up. Between February 2014 and January 2015, £21 million was spent on Lords’ allowances and expenses. That will continue to rise as the already bloated House of Lords continues to see its ranks swell. We are told that the purpose of reducing the number of MPs is to cut the cost of democracy, so why is the cost of the Lords allowed to spiral ever upwards?

I would be doing a disservice to myself and my party if I did not acknowledge that some peers are incredibly hard working and conscientious. Some contribute a great deal to society, and I have had the pleasure of working with them in a constructive manner on all-party groups.

[Dr Lisa Cameron (East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow) (SNP)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that part of the fundamental difficulty is that peers appear to be selected for who they know rather than elected for what they know?

[Margaret Ferrier]

My hon. Friend makes an extremely good point. That is the problem, and that is why there are so many of them.

The efforts of the Members of the House of Lords whom I was talking about do not go unnoticed, and so they should surely have nothing to fear from standing for election to a democratic second Chamber. There have even been occasions when the House of Lords has played an important role in blocking or amending legislation. Imagine how much more important a function our second Chamber could play in shaping legislation if it were fully elected and fully representative. More than half of peers are over 70. I know we are facing an ageing population but to even suggest that that is representative of wider society is absurd. Twice as many peers used to work for the royal family as have worked in skilled or manual labour. That simply is not right and cannot deliver the real-life experience needed in an effective second Chamber.

It simply is not right that the boundary plans proceed. We need plans to vastly reduce the number of peers and a full review of reform of the House of Lords. In the meantime, the Government must discard their plans to reduce the number of democratically elected Members of Parliament.

Savings (Government Contributions) Bill

Lisa Cameron Excerpts

2nd reading: House of Commons & Money resolution: House of Commons & Programme motion: House of Commons & Ways and Means resolution: House of Commons
Monday 17th October 2016 Commons Chamber

[David Morris (Morecambe and Lunesdale) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Gloucester (Richard Graham). I am sure the Bill covers the self-employed, but that has not been brought up today. When I was self-employed 20 years ago, the then Government made a change to taxation which basically meant that a substantial amount of every pound that I put into my pension pot was taken out in cash, so I stopped paying into a private pension. The policy in front of us today proposes a break in that sort of behaviour, particularly for the self-employed. The self-employed have always been worried about the harmonisation of national insurance contributions. When I was the Prime Minister’s ambassador for the self-employed, I worked closely with my right hon. Friends the Members for Bromsgrove (Sajid Javid) and for Chingford and Woodford Green (Mr Duncan Smith) on trying to harmonise national insurance contributions so that self-employed people would eventually have the same state pension.

However, I want to talk about the lifetime ISA proposal, because it should not be confused with an extra pension top-up, about which every speaker in the debate before me has talked. It should instead be seen as a savings guarantee for the future. It was a tidy move by the Treasury and the Department for Work and Pensions in reaching the point of harmonising NICs. This proposal takes us a little further into the realms of the self-employed being able to look after themselves in future.

I do not want the LISA to be confused with a pension supplement. It is not that. It is something that helps to save for the future. To put it in perspective, we hear a lot of doom and gloom, but let us look where we were seven years ago. The then Prime Minister, the former Member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath, used to say quite often that he had put an end to boom and bust, but we then went bust in the biggest possible way. Near enough 10 years down the line from that, we have to address how we are going to save for our future. As someone who took the decision 15 or 20 years not to pay into a pension plan, I wholeheartedly welcome what the Government are doing.

I want to provide some perspective. Unemployment is dropping in my constituency—so much so that a Labour councillor was boasting about his business and saying that he cannot get enough employees to fill the positions. The workplace pension has its place, but the LISA has a separate place. I hope that it will carry on and enable people to save for their old age.

[Dr Lisa Cameron (East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow) (SNP)]

I do not want to start by correcting the hon. Gentleman, but I am pleased to have a savings account named after me, and the LISA is most definitely a “Lee-sa” and not a “Lye-sa”. Does he agree that financial education in schools is the crux of the matter? Children must learn how to budget in order to learn how to save and have a secure relationship with their finances.

[David Morris]

That is part and parcel of the mix. However, this Bill is about where we are going in the future. I take on board what the hon. Lady says and I am sure that everyone else in the Chamber and in the country more widely will have done, too.

Thank you for allocating this time to me, Madam Deputy Speaker. I wholeheartedly endorse what the Government are doing.

--- Later in debate ---

[Simon Kirby]

Yes, I would be very happy to do that.

I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Gloucester (Richard Graham) for his thoughtful contribution. Clearly, he feels very strongly about a vast number of issues. I respectfully disagree with some of his opinions, but I hope that he continues to contribute to this important debate, as it is important that we get it right. At the end of the day, this is about helping younger people and poorer people get into the habit of saving.

[Dr Cameron]

Given that the crux of the matter is to help younger people to save, will the Minister have a dialogue with colleagues about financial education at school, and why it is really important that children and young people have a stable and secure relationship with money and that they understand that at an early age?

[Simon Kirby]

I absolutely agree with the hon. Lady. Making sensible, correct and proper financial decisions is important for all of us throughout our lives. She has got her point in Hansard. I will also take it away with me.

Let me come back to the points raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Gloucester. There was some confusion about the factsheet of Her Majesty’s Treasury. May I make it clear that the lifetime ISA is for long-term saving, and is designed to complement pensions? Contributions to an ISA are made from post-tax income.

My hon. Friend the Member for Morecambe and Lunesdale (David Morris) mentioned self-employed people. We should never forget that many people do not have this quandary about whether they should auto-enrol or go for a lifetime ISA. There are sensible self-employed people who either want to save for later life or purchase their first home. I know that the lifetime ISA scheme will be very well received by them.

Finally, I thank the hon. Member for Bootle (Peter Dowd) for his contribution. I disagreed with almost everything he said, but I genuinely look forward to his continued involvement in this important area. Let us not forget that we have a responsibility to the millions of people out there—young people and poorer people—who should be saving and getting the very best assistance they can from the Government.

In conclusion, when it comes down to it, this Bill is about supporting people who are trying to save. It does not matter whether they are a young person looking for a flexible way to save for the future or if they are someone who is on a low income and are making a big effort to save up some money each month, they deserve a savings account that will support them and give them a boost on what they manage to put aside. Although these two savings vehicles are new, they are intended to do exactly that. I am pleased to commend this Bill to the House.

Question put and agreed to.

Bill accordingly read a Second time.

Savings (Government Contributions) Bill (Programme)

Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 83A(7)),

That the following provisions shall apply to the Savings (Government Contributions) Bill:

Committal

(1) The Bill shall be committed to a Public Bill Committee.

Proceedings in Public Bill Committee

(2) Proceedings in the Public Bill Committee shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion on Tuesday 1 November 2016.

(3) The Public Bill Committee shall have leave to sit twice on the first day on which it meets.

Proceedings on Consideration and up to and including Third Reading

(4) Proceedings on Consideration and any proceedings in legislative grand committee shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion one hour before the moment of interruption on the day on which proceedings on Consideration are commenced.

(5) Proceedings on Third Reading shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion at the moment of interruption on that day.

(6) Standing Order No. 83B (Programming committees) shall not apply to proceedings on Consideration and up to and including Third Reading.

Other proceedings

(7) Any other proceedings on the Bill (including any proceedings on consideration of any message from the Lords) may be programmed.—(Andrew Griffiths.)

Question agreed to.

Savings (Government Contributions) Bill (Money)

Queen’s recommendation signified.

Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 52(1)(a),

That, for the purposes of any Act resulting from the Savings (Government Contributions) Bill, it is expedient to authorise the payment out of money provided by Parliament of:

(1) any expenditure incurred by a Minister of the Crown or a government department under or by virtue of the Act; and

(2) any increase attributable to the Act in the sums payable under any other Act out of money so provided.—(Andrew Griffiths.)

Question agreed to.

Savings (Government Contributions) Bill (Ways and Means)

Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 52(1)(a),

That, for the purposes of any Act resulting from the Savings (Government Contributions) Bill, it is expedient to authorise—

(1) charges on certain withdrawals from Lifetime ISAs; and

(2) the recovery (with or without interest) of sums paid by way of government bonuses under the Act.—(Andrew Griffiths.)

Question agreed to.