Cities and Local Government Devolution Bill [Lords]

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Graham Allen

Monday 7th December 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Allen]

That is exactly the difference between decentralisation and devolution. This proposal is the Secretary of State pushing some power to the locality, purely on the basis that he can suck it back; it is not giving power and, as of right, allowing the local authority to exercise that. There is no way in which the local authority can intervene in this process. It is a bystander, as an agent of central Government.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

The interventions must be shorter, as I still have to get the Front Bencher in.

Transparency of Lobbying, Non-Party Campaigning and Trade Union Administration Bill (Programme) (No. 2)

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Graham Allen

Tuesday 8th October 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Allen]

I will not answer my hon. Friend’s question because I would incur your wrath, Mr Deputy Speaker. However, were we able to debate under a proper programme motion, my hon. Friend could make those important points at some length.

Leaving aside the Electoral Commission, the bodies that will be hurt most by any legislation of this sort were also not consulted. It takes a truly heroic effort in this place to get 10,000-odd charities up in arms. Members have been contacted by many such organisations over the past weeks and months, and I am sure that even today they will have received lengthy protests from key organisations such as the Royal British Legion and Oxfam who are saying, “We’ve not had our say. We feel we’re being railroaded.” It is not the role of Parliament to push people and push legislation through without a proper case being made by the Government.

Part 2 is the most sensitive part of the Bill, and if this programme motion is passed we may come to it tomorrow, but most of the bodies and people who will be most affected by it feel that the whole of part 2 should be withdrawn. If there had been a Cabinet reshuffle at the higher levels perhaps an incoming Leader of the House might have said, “I’m blowed if I’m going to be hung with this for the next two months,” and might have scrapped it. We are going to soldier on and try to make the best of it, however, but we can only make the best of it if we have the time to scrutinise properly some of the Bill’s key issues.

People outside this House do not want us to play games. This is the first time in my political life that I have asked colleagues not to support a programme motion. I am generally a great advocate of programme motions, but I oppose this programme motion because of what charity after charity, and voluntary sector organisation after voluntary sector organisation, and third sector organisation after third sector organisation, are saying. Civil Society says in its briefing about the programming:

“There has been a lack of pre-legislative scrutiny and consultation with organisations that might be affected by the change which is in stark opposition to the supposed purpose of the Bill which is to increase transparency and oversight”,

not reduce it.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. I have been very lenient, but we are in danger of repeating arguments by bringing different organisations into the discussion. I understand the frustration that the Chair of the Select Committee feels, but he will understand that our debate is purely about the timetabling and nothing else; it is not about the detail of what may or may not come.

[Mr Allen]

I strongly support your view, Mr Deputy Speaker, so I will not repeat anything, and will instead move on to the very long list of brand new points that I can put before the House.

The National Council for Voluntary Organisations makes a completely new point about the programming:

“We also have concerns about the lack of pre-legislative scrutiny and the lack of consultation with organisations that might be affected by the changes in order to ensure they are clear and workable. Government is committed”

—apparently—

“to the national Compact which states that ‘where it is appropriate, and enables meaningful engagement, conduct 12-week formal written consultations, with clear explanations and rationale for any shorter time-frames’”.

[Sir Peter Bottomley (Worthing West) (Con)]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. I know I am quite mature in years, but my hearing is still fairly acute and I think we are hearing about the programme of the Government. About 15 minutes have passed since we last heard about the programming of this Bill.

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

I shall repeat what I just said to Mr Allen: we need to get to the point. This debate is about the programme motion. I have allowed a little leeway, and he has used that leeway. I think he is now in danger of taking advantage of the Chamber, and I am sure he is about to finish.

[Mr Allen]

Since, sadly, I am accusing the Government of taking advantage of this Chamber, it is incumbent upon me not to do so, but I am not talking about the Government’s programme; I am instead talking about the programme motion, by which I mean the timetabling.

This timetable is an insult to those who work day and night in charities; it is an insult to Members of this House who are receiving representations about what is a very important matter but are unable to voice them in this Chamber; and—above all, perhaps—it is an insult to our legislative colleagues in the second Chamber who expect us to send them a Bill in halfway-decent repair.

Speaking for my Select Committee, which has members from parties on both sides of the House, we have worked incredibly hard to try to fulfil our role for this House and for Parliament. Unless we are allowed to debate these issues properly and fully, I will ask my colleagues to vote against the programme motion.

Question put.

The House proceeded to a Division.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

I ask the Serjeant at Arms to investigate the delay in the Aye Lobby.

Transparency of Lobbying, Non-Party Campaigning and Trade Union Administration Bill

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Graham Allen

Tuesday 10th September 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Graham Allen (Nottingham North) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Hoyle. As a matter of process, more than 200 charities and voluntary organisations wrote to the Minister on their anxieties about this Bill. Is it within your power to ensure that those anxieties, and many others that will be expressed in the debates on the various clauses that come before us today, are debated by the Committee? If colleagues from any part of the Committee were to filibuster so that those points were not reached, it would be an act of disrespect to this Parliament and all the charities that are concerned about the issue. Is it in your power to encourage colleagues to keep their remarks within bounds, so that the key clauses can be reached?

[The Chairman of Ways and Means (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

It is not just the Minister who has been inundated with people’s views. That is not a point of order because, as the hon. Gentleman is well aware, the debate has been guillotined and is time limited. I am sure, however, that hon. Members have taken on board the comments made.

Clause 26

Meaning of “controlled expenditure”

--- Later in debate ---

[The Temporary Chairman (Sir Edward Leigh)]

Is that the end of the speech?

[Mr Allen]

No; I was giving way to my hon. Friend the Member for Penistone and Stocksbridge (Angela Smith).

[The Temporary Chairman]

The hon. Gentleman is a very courteous Member. He will want to know that six other Members are trying to speak, and the Minister, so I know he will want to allow other Members to get in—but there is an intervention.

Lobbying

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Graham Allen

Tuesday 25th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Allen]

Speaking on behalf of the Select Committee, which studied the proposals in some detail, I am not proposing that the Government should accept the things that we said in our report. I am saying that the House as a whole should be given, say, three weeks under the auspices of the Select Committee to examine the Bill seriously, preferably before its Second Reading but even during an interregnum after that point, so that any Member, anyone in Government and anyone in the lobbying profession can make their views plain. Whatever shape the Bill is in—I am sure that it is perfectly formed—we might be able to improve it slightly through such an examination.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. The hon. Gentleman is a very experienced Member, and he has already made his speech in the debate. We do not need a second one. Good interventions are short interventions.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Allen]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. Is it in order to pray in aid the Select Committee when I have been clear, impartial and open with the House about our Select Committee’s scrutiny and the failure of the Government to respond to our report within a year? Is it somehow acceptable for the Minister to pray in aid the Select Committee in pursuit of arguments that he cannot seem to make himself?

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

I note that point and it is on the record. As the hon. Gentleman will know, I am not responsible for, and have no desire to be responsible for, the speech of the Deputy Leader of the House.

Scrap Metal Theft

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Graham Allen

Monday 18th June 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

I do wonder whether gold is really scrap, so I think we are stretching the boundaries. But at least the hon. Member for Leicester South (Jonathan Ashworth) has got it on the record and I am sure that he would want us to get back to the subject in hand.

[Mr Allen]

I am sure that the Minister has taken note of this new and innovative branch of the scrap metal business and may well be thinking about introducing legislation as we speak.

I have certainly understood the concern about scrap metal theft over the past week or so, because I have been inundated with individuals and organisations who have become aware of this debate and who have written to me, telephoned me or e-mailed me about how serious the situation is. Changes do need to be made. These are changes that will be welcomed by the vast majority of legitimate scrap metal dealers. They operate within a £5.6 billion industry and employ 8,000 people across the UK. Most of those people will welcome some of the proposals that hon. Members are collectively putting forward.

I welcome what the Government have done to trial and now to expand Operation Tornado to cover the whole country. Operation Tornado makes those selling scrap metal to participating dealers provide proof of their identity and it was an outstanding success when trialled in Durham and Cleveland, sparking a 55% reduction in thefts. I was delighted to see Operation Tornado being adopted by the Nottinghamshire police force a few months ago.

As campaigning Members of Parliament throughout the House realise, much more needs to be done. Many colleagues who are present in the Chamber tonight have put this matter on the record in various ways. In particular, I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Hyndburn (Graham Jones) for what he has done in recent weeks, for his efforts and for his Bill. He should be listened to when legislation on this issue is considered.

I welcome the announcement made by the hon. Member for Croydon South (Richard Ottaway) that he will dedicate his precious private Member’s Bill to this matter. His initial proposals, which I have had a chance to look at, are very welcome but he knows as well as I do the delicate road he must negotiate under the archaic private Member’s Bill process if he is to get his proposal into law. If he wishes to try, I would be happy to accompany him through that dark and deadly legislative jungle. I hope that the Minister will draw strength from those of us in the Chamber and from many Members who are not so that he is cast in the part of not the silent assassin of the hon. Gentleman’s Bill but the Indiana Jones of scrap metal.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Allen]

That is a very interesting point to be teased out in a Bill Committee, if the hon. Member for Croydon South is successful in getting his Bill into Committee. It deserves a great deal of attention. Any new licensing scheme should also be flexible locally, so that councils or whoever can adapt the system to the differing circumstances found in different areas.

The Government must focus much more on the role of forensic markings in preventing this crime. Alan Given, until recently the chief executive of Nottinghamshire Police Authority, says that maintaining

“a minimum standard in relation to longevity, retrieval and analysis”

of forensic markings is an extremely useful intervention that the Government can make. Reliable forensic marking can make metal worthless to steal, make trading stolen metal a high-risk activity, and play a key role in ensuring the prosecution of criminals.

The commercial and domestic use of forensic markings is common. Companies such as Network Rail, National Grid, BT Openreach and many others mark their metals with hidden ink. I take this opportunity to congratulate SmartWater on working with the War Memorials Trust to donate a free system to protect every war memorial in the UK by the end of the year.

Last year the city council in Nottingham and our crime and drug partnership started to mark metal street furniture. They have also done outstanding work backing a property marking scheme advertised on the back of buses in the city to ensure that criminals know that metal is being marked. This has even included putting up posters in custody suites.

If the trade does not seize this opportunity for sensible reform, I and no doubt many colleagues will seek to require scrap metal dealers to scan all materials arriving at their premises, but for now any legislation should allow local authorities or others to use the techniques that they consider necessary.

The final key area, as has been mentioned, is the ban on cash payments, which was introduced in Operation Tornado It must go further and include itinerant collectors and vehicle salvagers. That is extremely important.

Parliament is so often seen as irrelevant to ordinary people’s needs and slow to act. Here, on the back of concern that has been given voice by constituency MPs of all parties and an opportunity that has been given by the fluke of the private Member’s Bill ballot and the generosity of the hon. Member for Croydon South, we have a chance to move swiftly. I very much hope that the Minister will grab that chance.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Mr Jones, is it correct that you have arranged with the Minister and the hon. Member for Nottingham North (Mr Allen) to speak briefly?