Definition of Islamophobia

Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts

Thursday 16th May 2019 Commons Chamber

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Sir Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. I will not impose a time limit, but if we work to 10-minute speeches, or thereabouts, everybody will get in.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sir John Hayes]

That partly depends how far one wants to explore the right hon. Gentleman’s historical point—I imagine his point is largely about the European empires that predominated in relatively modern history. If we were speaking about the ancient world, none of what he said would be true. If we were talking about the Persian or Ottoman empires, none of what he said would be true. If we talked about the Moorish domination of north Africa and southern Europe, none of what he said would be true.

So, if we are going to use history as a means of legitimising or explaining our arguments, it is important that we do so in as holistic a way as possible, though I do not dispute the fact that the right hon. Gentleman is both honourable and a gentleman—perhaps that is the best way of putting it—because I know he has a long-standing commitment to fighting racism in his constituency and elsewhere.

I know that others want to speak and there are many of them, so I am going to deal with my other points fairly briefly.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Sir Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. I did suggest about 10 minutes. We have now gone past the right hon. Gentleman’s 10 minutes, so I am sure he is coming to the end of his great speech.

[Sir John Hayes]

I did want to give way to other Members.

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

That is your choice, but obviously it is the choice from the Chair that we stick to around 10 minutes.

[Sir John Hayes]

In that case, let me draw my remarks to a conclusion with my final two points, which I will deal with very briefly.

We have to take it very seriously indeed when anti-terrorist police, notably Martin Hewitt, who has been mentioned already, describe the risks associated with this initiative in the way that he has. He describes them as

“undermining counterterrorist policing powers and tactics.”

That very damning criticism should not be dismissed lightly.

We should also take it very seriously when human rights lawyers say that these proposals would lead to judicial reviews and legal confusion which, as the House knows, they have.

Finally, we should, I am afraid, question whether the effect of this debate will not be to fuel the extreme and far right, who I am profoundly concerned are gaining a foothold again in our country. I go back to the 1970s, when I was a member of the Anti-Nazi League and marched against the National Front in Lewisham, Ilford and elsewhere. The far right will see this as a justification for their intolerance and it may well be that what is well intentioned and propounded by decent and honourable people is turned against them. For all those reasons—I could talk about the Policy Exchange report, but I will not—I cannot support the hon. Member for Ilford North, much as I admire him.