Bus Services Bill [Lords]

Debate between Lilian Greenwood and Richard Fuller

2nd reading: House of Commons
Wednesday 1st March 2017 Commons Chamber

[Lilian Greenwood]

rose—

[Richard Fuller (Bedford) (Con)]

rose—

[Chris Grayling]

I will give way one last time to both sides of the House, but then finish.

Student Visas

Debate between Lilian Greenwood and Richard Fuller

Thursday 16th June 2011 Westminster Hall

[Richard Fuller]

The hon. Gentleman urges some very good caution. The worst thing to do is to ignore the immigration issue, pretend it is not there and destroy people’s confidence in the system, as his Government did. However, as the right hon. Member for Leicester East (Keith Vaz) said, there is an issue about trying to ensure that we have the numbers, so that we are dealing with the facts. Facts help people to gain confidence. If people do not have the facts, it is harder to gain their confidence. However, the measures this Government are taking on that have been a significant step forward on behalf of the country.

The United Kingdom—what a wonderful country we live in, and how proud we can be of our values and our society. We have these great debates in this fantastic mother of Parliaments. We are a beacon for educated people around the world. We should be really, really proud of what is now called the soft power that countries such as ours have. The fact we have a vibrant series of educational institutions is a critical part of ensuring that the United Kingdom continues, in the words of a former Foreign Secretary, to punch above its weight. There is no doubt that hon. Members from all parties think that that is an important thing for us to accomplish.

However, we must recognise that our higher education institutions are going through some substantial changes and challenges. I would like to praise Professor Marilyn Leask, who is the dean of the Bedford campus of the university of Bedfordshire. There is a Luton campus, but I shall not speak for that one. I will speak for the campus in Bedford. Professor Leask is considering with energy and vitality how to deal with the challenges faced by our higher education system in terms of the changes to student fees. She is based in a teaching training institution for physical education and is considering new ways to accommodate those changes. We must recognise that our universities are going through substantial changes. This issue is one part of a much bigger picture that they are trying to piece together, as they put together a more sustainable long-term funding basis for their future operations. It is probably not the most important part of our universities’ business model, but it is an important issue.

I ask the Minister—again, apologies that I will not be here to listen to his response, but I shall read it with great interest—to explain how the relationship between the Home Office and the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills is operating, so that we can get a sense of whether we have an integrated strategy. Million+ is asking for an integrated higher education strategy, which is a very good thing. If we have all these advantages from being this wonderful country and if we want to educate the world, we must have a coherent strategy to achieve that. That does not necessarily mean that some of the issues raised today have to be acceded to, because I do not think that all of them are right, but it does give a context for where we are heading. As these institutions and universities are building their new business models, we need to give them a context in which they can plan for the long term more coherently.

[Lilian Greenwood]

The hon. Gentleman makes an incredibly important point about this being a time of great change for universities and that they are having to look at their future planning. Does that not make it all the more important for the Government to proceed on the matter with caution and deal with the timing carefully? Universities need to be able to plan and adjust, rather than being rushed into things. That is one of the concerns that universities have raised.

[Richard Fuller]

The hon. Lady makes a good point about the transitional arrangements this year. She has heard an answer from the Minister on that and I am sure that he will address the matter again when dealing with some of the follow-up concerns raised by the hon. Member for Sheffield Central. That is a particular issue on which I am looking forward to hearing the Minister’s comments.

More generally, on Opposition Members’ calls for caution, when we are looking for change, caution is not always the best way to proceed. It is important to deal with the matter clearly and cleanly, so that the people who are responsible for building business models do not have to anticipate future changes. Such an approach is helpful to them when setting their strategy. Being cautious is not always the best approach. In this instance, given my and other hon. Members’ concerns about the importance of getting peoples’ confidence back in immigration, obtaining clarity quickly will be of benefit to the long-term strategy of our higher education institutions and our universities. They need to have an integrated strategy, so that they know the Government’s direction of travel. They need an understanding between the Home Office and BIS to make that happen.

My message to the Minister is, first, that he has a responsibility to fix immigration. That is what the British people asked for at the last general election and that is what they are looking to the Home Secretary and the Minister to accomplish. I urge him to consider everything he does through that lens, rather than through the particular lens of each issue. Secondly, he has heard from hon. Members on the issue of whether students are migrants or not. It may be worth considering what happens in the United States and the United Nations. Some of us prefer the approach of the United States to that of the United Nations. Will the Minister look at that as part of setting an overall strategy, as it would be interesting and worth while to do so?

On the transitional arrangements that my hon. Friend the Member for South West Bedfordshire (Andrew Selous) and others mentioned, again, the Minister has given an answer and I look forward to him expanding on that in his closing comments. I urge the Government to have an integrated, international higher education policy. We have a fantastic country. We have to bring people here, so that we can spread a message of freedom and spread understanding of the English language. We must give people Shakespeare and give people an understanding of the Magna Carta. If we do those things, we will have a country that can not only interact, but sell to the rest of the world.