Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Kwasi Kwarteng and Alan Whitehead

Tuesday 7th June 2022 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Minister, Dr Alan Whitehead.

[Dr Alan Whitehead (Southampton, Test) (Lab)]

It would be really nice if the Secretary of State told us when the ECO4 legislation is coming, because ECO4 is not going to work unless that legislation comes forward.

The Secretary of State knows that the new price cap and the increase in customer bills will have a devastating impact on customers’ struggle with the cost of living, so why is his Department directly contributing to the sky-high price cap levels by putting into place new customer levies—such as the socialisation of the costs of failed energy companies, the green gas levy and the nuclear regulated asset base levy—that will add perhaps £100 to the upcoming and future price cap levels, and hence to customer bills? The Secretary of State talks of Government assistance to help customers to cope with their bills, but is it not very much about giving with one hand and taking back with the other? Should customers not be angry at this cynical policy?

[Kwasi Kwarteng]

There is no reason to be angry about the support, because the £37 billion of support is very real. On the supplier of last resort, the hon. Gentleman will know that 26 firms had to leave the market as a consequence of sky-high wholesale prices, and all the SOLR levy does is socialise those costs within the industry. It was a necessary device to make sure that customers can ease on to other providers without interruption.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Kwasi Kwarteng and Alan Whitehead

Tuesday 22nd February 2022 Commons Chamber

[Kwasi Kwarteng]

We are constantly engaging with Citizens Advice, Ofgem and a huge range of stakeholders about how to protect the most vulnerable consumers. The package announced by my right hon. Friend the Chancellor only a couple of weeks ago includes £350, which goes halfway towards addressing the increase that the hon. Member for Makerfield (Yvonne Fovargue) describes. The warm home discount is being extended from 2 million people to 3 million people, and the uplift will be to £150.

[Dr Alan Whitehead (Southampton, Test) (Lab)]

The 4 million pre-payment meter customers in this country will be profoundly unimpressed by the Secretary of State’s answers this morning. Not only are they paying far more than the £693 increase on the price cap for customers with accounts, but it is uncertain whether they will have access to the £200 Government scheme to lend customers their own money, as they do not have accounts through which to do this. Indeed, many of them will miss out on the council tax rebate, too.

Would it not have been much more straightforward and fairer for prepayment meter customers if we had levied a windfall tax on companies that are profiting from high gas prices and provided those customers with a direct and non-refundable discount on their bills through their meter?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Kwasi Kwarteng and Alan Whitehead

Tuesday 11th January 2022 Commons Chamber

[Kwasi Kwarteng]

Very specifically in regard to her question, my hon. Friend will know that there is a £450 million boiler upgrade scheme, which was outlined in the CSR, that will provide up-front capital grants for the installation of low-carbon heating systems. She will also be aware that for lower-income households we have a £1.1 billion home upgrade grant, which will upgrade energy efficiency and increase low-carbon heating of non-gas homes across the country.

[Dr Alan Whitehead (Southampton, Test) (Lab)]

I am sure that the Secretary of State is aware that off-grid customers’ gas and oil supplies are not covered by the price cap, and that they will therefore experience even higher price fuel price increases this spring than the £600 or so now predicted for on-grid customers. Is the Secretary of State intending to provide any special assistance to off-grid customers, or is he going to let them stew alongside their on-grid neighbours, as the Government seem happy to do at the moment?

[Kwasi Kwarteng]

I think that is a complete misrepresentation of all the work that the Government have done to help customers. There are the winter fuel payments, as the hon Gentleman well knows, and £300 for 8 million pensioners is worth £2 billion. We have the warm home discount, we have cold weather payments. We have a full range of measures that will help off-grid customers in a difficult time.

Exiting the European Union (Energy Conservation)

Debate between Kwasi Kwarteng and Alan Whitehead

Wednesday 18th November 2020 Commons Chamber

[Kwasi Kwarteng]

Madam Deputy Speaker, I am delighted that you appreciate the various illustrations in the legislation, and I am delighted, too, that you have learned a great deal about energy labelling.

I shall sum up very succinctly, because I fully understand the pressures on time and the fact that people want to move on to subsequent debates. I thank the hon. Members for Southampton, Test (Dr Whitehead) and for Kilmarnock and Loudoun (Alan Brown) for their contributions. I will address two or three of their points as succinctly but as clearly as I can.

In relation to the implementation period—the transition period, as we call it now—it was always the case that we had an obligation to enshrine in UK law measures that were introduced by the EU in the course of the transition period, but once we had left the EU, there was no such obligation. The hon. Member for Southampton, Test is therefore quite right to say that, as per the Northern Ireland protocol, there could in theory be some divergence. However, if that happens, we can keep on an equal basis, mirroring what goes on in Northern Ireland at a subsequent date after we have left the EU. That is possible, and I am not going to prejudge the outcome of that.

With respect to marketing, in the provision in the statutory instrument, there is a period of a year where EU goods can be marketed in this country. As the hon. Gentleman said, leaving the transition period will not affect the marketing of goods from Northern Ireland into Great Britain, nor should it affect the marketing of goods from Great Britain into Northern Ireland, but there will be a marker. I cannot remember its exact design off the top of my head, but I will certainly come back to him on that question.

As to why this debate is happening on the Floor of the House and not in a Committee Room, that is clearly an issue for the business managers of the House. I am not in a position to fully answer that question, I am afraid, but I reiterate our commitment to the standards, ecodesign and energy labelling regime that has helped us to significantly reduce energy bills and increase emissions savings. This will make a massive contribution to our carbon reduction commitments in future. I think Members of this House will be very pleased to know that our standards have led the EU over the past few years: no country in the EU has decarbonised as readily as we have done since 1990. I notice that our German colleagues are still committed to the mining of coal until 2038, and I am pleased to say that we are taking coal off the power generation grid by 2024. I make that point not as an idle boast, but to say that we are, and have been, leaders of the EU, and with COP26 we will continue to provide leadership on the decarbonisation agenda.

This draft instrument will allow businesses in Northern Ireland to trade smoothly with Britain. It will allow Northern Irish products to circulate without any hindrance on the GB market, and it will also preserve the highest standards within businesses in this country.

[Dr Whitehead]

rose—

[Kwasi Kwarteng]

I therefore commend these regulations to the House.

[Dr Whitehead]

Madam Deputy Speaker, I draw attention to my having asked the Minister to give way.

Draft Electricity (Risk-Preparedness) (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2020

Debate between Kwasi Kwarteng and Alan Whitehead

Wednesday 7th October 2020 General Committees

[Dr Alan Whitehead (Southampton, Test) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship this afternoon, Ms Elliott.

As the Minister set out lucidly and briefly, the SI is essentially about putting in place what will happen on risk-preparedness in a UK rather than an EU context. It does that by keeping in place most of EU regulation 2019/941 as retained law, but making a number of changes to the retained law to place it in a UK context, independent of what occurs in the EU. Of course, that process is essentially non-controversial and has to happen for our exit from the EU next year. Therefore, having these provisions in place in a timely fashion before that exit takes place is a straightforward and necessary process.

I have, however, some concerns about the consequences of that change, and I would like one or two assurances from the Minister about how that process will take place and what he has in mind for making it happen over the period, because the SI does not just make those changes. It commits the UK to publishing, by 5 January 2022, its own risk- preparedness plan. In a sense, that is not an enormous difference from what was the case previously under the EU regulation, inasmuch as the UK was supposed to publish its own plan, but it was then supposed to circulate that plan around EU member states, in both draft and final form, for comments and consideration. That particular process is excised by the SI this afternoon. It excises that process and sets up a UK process, with the addition of one or two differences from the position previously. In particular, it excises provisions in article 8 of the EU regulation, which describes the process of setting up a draft, circulating that and then publishing. We are now in a position, as a result of the SI, in which the UK will produce its own risk-preparedness plan, but is not required to produce in any way a draft for discussion or circulation to anybody—

[Kwasi Kwarteng]

We have left the EU.

[Dr Whitehead]

To anybody in the UK. That is the effect of the SI: there is no provision to publish, reveal or circulate any draft plan before publication of the actual plan, or the agreement of the actual plan, in 2022. That seems to me to be a bit of an omission, frankly, concerning our plans, because it is important that these plans are known about and discussed publicly and scrutinised well in advance of their final adoption. Therefore, I hope that the Minister will at least be able to say—even if he is not prepared to row back on any of the excisions that he has made in relation to the process of adopting a plan—that he will ensure that any draft plans are fully public, circulated and discussable before the final plan is produced, which will be by January 2022.

My second concern is that the terms of the SI effectively mean, as the Minister said, that we do not tell the EU anything we are doing as far as risk-preparedness is concerned, which we would be required to do under the previous regulations; we go our own way as it were on risk-preparedness. In reality, most of the risks that may arise in the UK electricity sector are likely to be common within the EU. Indeed, the right hon. Member for Scarborough and Whitby mentioned interconnectors, and they could easily be a substantial common risk for the UK and EU members, at least on a regional basis.

As the Minister will, I am sure, be aware, because he was very much involved in the process, as part of the comprehensive free trade agreement draft in May 2020, we as a country submitted an energy co-operation draft, which among other things suggests that we should continue to sit as an observer on the ENSO-E body, which is the body that oversees risk-preparedness across the EU. It is very likely, I would have thought, that if the EU agrees that energy co-operation draft, and agrees to our observer status on ENSO-E, it would want at least some transparency as to our risk-preparedness plans, and indeed some mechanism whereby those plans can be translated across to our partners and friends in the EU, so that we can proceed as far as possible on assessing risk and dealing with it on a joint basis, which I am sure the Minister would agree is a thoroughly sensible thing to do given the nature of those risks. Is the Minister able to address what observer status on ENSO-E may consist of, and confirm, should that provision go through, that our risk-preparedness plans will be shared in an appropriate and collaborative way, both with other EU member states and with ENSO-E?

I think the Minister will have gathered that the Opposition do not intend to oppose these regulations—

[Kwasi Kwarteng]

I was not so sure about that.

[Dr Whitehead]

They are absolutely the right thing to do under the present circumstances, but I am sure that the Minister will also agree that there are issues that arise, and that we need some clarification as to where things will go once these changes have been made.

[Kwasi Kwarteng]

The hon. Gentleman raised a number of points and I want to address them briefly. He is quite right that the very fact of leaving the EU means that we do not have to give EU member states sight of our plans, and we do not need them to, essentially, review our homework on this. That is what the SI does; it means that we do not have to refer back to them, and that is what having an independent energy policy means. So he is right to say that, but there will be scrutiny and debate and, I would expect, wide consultation ahead of the publication of such plans.

Every Energy Minister spends a lot of his or her time engaging with the industry, engaging with resilience issues, engaging with security issues, not only with domestic stakeholders, but with partners in the EU and across the world. It is a very outward-focused, engaged Department, and energy, with all its international implications, is particularly needful of international co-operation and international engagement. I would have no worries on his part about our ability to engage in a very co-operative spirit with allies and partners.

The hon. Gentleman said that the SI is non-controversial, and he is right about that – it is straightforward and necessary. He is also right about that. I disagreed with him when he characterised our position as ‘we go on our own way’. Well, of course, we have that independence, but as I have said, there is constant engagement with our French and German colleagues, and all sorts of countries across the EU. That will continue.

As the hon. Gentleman said, the regulations are straightforward and necessary. They will ensure continuity for our energy system. They will correct deficiencies arising from withdrawal from the EU—we are cleaning up all the redundant references in the legislation to member states and obligations that we owe EU bodies and institutions. They will retain relevant functions with a view to increasing resilience in terms of risk- preparedness, and above all, they will provide certainty for the market and market participants.

I think that the measure is a very simple piece of legislation. It is straightforward and necessary, as the hon. Gentleman suggested, and on that basis, I am very happy to commend the regulations to the Committee.

[Dr Whitehead]

Will the Minister give way?

[Kwasi Kwarteng]

I am not going to take any interventions, I am afraid.

Question put and agreed to.

DRAFT ELECTRICITY AND GAS ETC. (AMENDMENT) (EU EXIT) REGULATIONS 2020 DRAFT ELECTRICITY AND GAS (INTERNAL MARKETS AND NETWORK CODES) (AMENDMENT ETC.) (EU EXIT) REGULATIONS 2020

Debate between Kwasi Kwarteng and Alan Whitehead

Monday 7th September 2020 General Committees

[Kwasi Kwarteng]

I am very pleased to respond to the hon. Gentleman, whose diligence in these matters is always to be commended, but I feel that there is a slight misapprehension about the force of the two SIs. As I described in my opening remarks, the whole point of the first SI is that it amends SIs that were laid before the withdrawal agreement was signed. Those SIs reflected, or tried to describe, the arrangements in Northern Ireland. The hon. Gentleman will know, as will other Members of the Committee, that at least a third of the withdrawal agreement related to the Northern Ireland protocol. I know that, because I was the Minister on the relevant Bill, but I failed to get the Bill through, as you, Ms Elliott, will remember. As the withdrawal agreement has come through, the SIs that we laid before its agreement are essentially redundant.

The first SI that we are debating essentially amends those SIs in the light of the fact that we have a withdrawal agreement and that the agreement has a Northern Ireland protocol attached to it, which determines many of these issues in relation to Northern Ireland. The hon. Gentleman is quite right to say that the second SI does not deal directly with the Northern Ireland issue. However, what has happened since then is that we have got a Northern Ireland Government. We all know—this was an issue that we have talked about at length, and I think that he and I debated it—that the single electricity market, or SEM, is what largely determines these issues on the island of Ireland. The workings of the SEM have been the subject of other SIs, as both he and I know well.

To answer the hon. Gentleman’s first question, it is not true to say that if we do not legislate in this way and there is not an agreement, the status quo just carries on. It does not just carry on, because, as I have said, the SIs have been superseded by the withdrawal agreement. In a way, this measure is a sort of safety blanket. We fully expect that there will be a deal, and that when there is a deal, we will have to reflect the institutions and how the energy market works according to that future deal, whenever it arrives and whatever its details are, when they are fleshed out. This measure is essentially just a safety blanket. It is not true to say that if we do nothing, we can simply carry on as before.

[Dr Whitehead]

I accept, of course, that it would not just be a case of status quo. Nevertheless, there is a question, in my mind at least: within a wider and overall deal, what would a specific deal on energy markets and energy transmission consist of? Does the Minister have information on that, with which he can reassure us this afternoon?

[Kwasi Kwarteng]

It would be quite an extraordinary ask, given that the negotiations are ongoing, for me to be able to tell the hon. Gentleman exactly what the details of those negotiations are. He will understand—this is public knowledge—that we hope to be part of or have a stand-alone emissions trading scheme, which is related to the EU’s ETS. However, as I have said, that is exactly the meat of the negotiations that are taking place, and it would be extraordinary for me in this public forum to say what the outcome of those negotiations will be.

If I may, and without further ado, I will say a couple of words in conclusion. The Government are committed to achieving a smooth end to the transition period so that our energy system operates with continuity and certainty. We confidently believe that these regulations will help to accomplish that in the event—the regrettable event—of there being no further agreement. We think that there will be an agreement, but should there not be one, these SIs will be very useful, because they will ensure continuity for our energy system, they will remove outdated references to legislation that no longer exists and that is not relevant, given the passing of the withdrawal agreement, and, as a consequence, they will provide more certainty for market participants. On that basis, I am pleased to commend them to the Committee.

Question put and agreed to.

DRAFT ELECTRICITY AND GAS (INTERNAL MARKETS AND NETWORK CODES) (AMENDMENT ETC.) (EU EXIT) REGULATIONS 2020

Resolved,

That the Committee has considered the draft Electricity and Gas (Internal Markets and Network Codes) (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2020.—(Kwasi Kwarteng.)

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Kwasi Kwarteng and Alan Whitehead

Tuesday 21st July 2020 Commons Chamber

[Dr Alan Whitehead (Southampton, Test) (Lab)]

All we have right now, as far as energy efficiency for homes is concerned, is an announcement of a one-year scheme to provide vouchers for energy efficiency improvements in mostly lower priority properties, with no detail yet as to how that will work. The Minister simply did not answer the question from my hon. Friend the Member for Lewisham East (Janet Daby) about businesses in the field who are telling us that jobs are being lost now, because people are cancelling work in anticipation of those details, if and when they come out.

What we need for green recovery is a long-term programme that develops jobs and skills and really contributes towards low carbon energy efficiency improvements across all homes in England and Wales. When does the Minister intend to provide details of how the short-term plan will work and what is he doing to establish a proper long-term home energy efficiency programme on the back of that plan?

[Kwasi Kwarteng]

Obviously, the hon. Gentleman and I will have slightly different views of what the Government are doing. I was surprised to hear him dismiss the £3 billion commitment. I remind him that green homes grants will deliver improvements to more than 650,000 homes, supporting 140,000 jobs in 2020-21. These are significant strides and a huge amount of money has been committed to that programme.

Draft Contracts for Difference (Electricity Supplier Obligations) (Amendment) (Coronavirus) Regulations 2020

Debate between Kwasi Kwarteng and Alan Whitehead

Monday 29th June 2020 General Committees

[Kwasi Kwarteng]

I will deal with the three points made by the hon. Gentleman in reverse order. He will have noticed that the Treasury has made all sorts of interventions across the whole economy. That does not mean that the Treasury should sustain its intervention in every business that has been furloughed. Similarly, with the LCCC, I made the decision that these were exceptional circumstances that warranted an exceptional response. It is in that sense that the Treasury has intervened; there is no notion that this will be ongoing. I want to put his mind to rest about that. Secondly, that is a loan—essentially, a working capital facility of £100 million that we expect to be repaid

On the hon. Gentleman’s second point about Ofgem and the price cap, that is something to which I am not privy. Ofgem will have a discussion about the price cap; it knows the circumstances of the energy suppliers and about the legislation. I have had weekly rounds with the sectors and the energy suppliers, and twice-weekly conversations with Ofgem, in which we have talked about a lot of those issues. They fully understand the context in which the draft instrument has been laid, so I do not think that there will be any kind of read-across in what Ofgem will do, and I strongly suspect that the price cap will be in force for a number of years to come.

[Dr Whitehead]

Does the Minister recognise that the draft instrument could mean inflated customer levies in a year’s time when that effect comes through?

[Kwasi Kwarteng]

I do not think that the hon. Gentleman or I have any idea what the circumstances will be next year. Lots of things operating in the market may or may not reduce wholesale gas and electricity prices. It would be very foolish for him or me to speculate about the state of the wholesale market in 12 months’ time. Ofgem will take into account a whole range of factors; some may relate to deferred payments, which we had to bring in to alleviate the pressure on the suppliers, and the hon. Gentleman recognised that as a good thing. There is no way that he or I can say exactly what the effect will or will not be on the price cap or on bills in 12 months’ time.

The first issue that the hon. Gentleman really goes to the heart of the matter. This is an exceptional time. A friend of mine—a banker—said to me, “If there ever was a case of force majeure, the covid crisis is it.” The Government have made exceptional interventions, of which this is one. There is no sense in which we would use the powers in the draft instrument to intervene on a regular basis in the market for the LCCC. I fully assure the hon. Gentleman that we will only do so in exceptional circumstances. He will understand that the very nature of exceptional circumstances means that we cannot predict here or now the specifics of what they might be, just as a year ago, we could not say that covid-19 was going to come upon us in February and March of this year—nobody foresaw that, or certainly not the timing. The very nature of exceptional circumstances should give him some assurance that we will only use the legislation in exceptional circumstances. I cannot here and now give him chapter and verse about what those exceptional circumstances would look like.

The Government are committed to the regulations, and I commend them to the Committee.

Question put and agreed to.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Kwasi Kwarteng and Alan Whitehead

Tuesday 21st January 2020 Commons Chamber

[Kwasi Kwarteng]

My right hon. Friend is right. As I have mentioned before at the Dispatch Box, it is remarkable that we have managed to reduce our carbon emissions by 40% in the past 30 years while growing our economy by two thirds. That is living proof of the remarkable fact that that we can decarbonise, grow and promote economic expansion at the same time. This is something in which we in this country are world leaders.

[Dr Alan Whitehead (Southampton, Test) (Lab)]

I am sure that the Minister agrees that there is a wealth of skills and transferrable jobs in existing energy industries that may well be supplanted by low-carbon energy industries in the not too distant future. What steps is he taking to capture those skills and transfer those jobs to low-carbon industries in the future?

[Kwasi Kwarteng]

The hon. Gentleman will be pleased to know that we have sector deals handling exactly that problem, for example in the oil and gas sector. We are making a successful transition from old industries to the new low-carbon-emitting, greener industries of the future. Offshore wind, of which there are a number of examples—I believe that there is a supply chain near the hon. Gentleman’s constituency—is a great success: we have 35% of global capacity. That is part of the transformation of the economy that we are talking about.

Draft Gas Tariffs Code (Amendment) (EU Exit) regulations 2019

Debate between Kwasi Kwarteng and Alan Whitehead

Monday 21st October 2019 General Committees

[Kwasi Kwarteng]

On the first question, I think the hon. Member for Southampton, Test was trying to get me to say that we will somehow be locked in forever, but the point of this legislation is to ensure that retained EU law is not affected in the event of no deal. I know about this sort of thing, because I an Under-Secretary of State at the Department for Exiting the European Union in charge of the withdrawal Bill. The principle behind that was that we did not want any discontinuity, or as little as possible, between 31 October—or 29 March as was—and the following day. That principle, as the hon. Gentleman suggests, is enshrined in this SI. He is quite right to say that the reason chapters II, III and IV were not covered by the original SI is that they have only been in operation since 31 May, so that is quite in order.

On the hon. Gentleman’s second point, it is a principle of the UK Government that if a Minister signs in his capacity as Minister, which is what my right hon. Friend the Member for Kingswood did, and he is the relevant Minister at the time of the signing, it does not invalidate that if he is then moved on. In fact, he has not really been moved on; he is still a Minister in the Department. At the time of signing, he was technically not the relevant Minister anyway because, as the hon. Gentleman says, the relevant Minister was taking a leave of absence, but he was standing in for her and signed the requisite documents. As I understand it, that does not make any difference.

[Dr Whitehead]

I would be grateful for an indication that the Government do not intend to introduce any further legislation relating to the TAR regulations as they now stand, as was implied in the original statutory instrument, which I think has been superseded by the present one.

[Kwasi Kwarteng]

The Government have no intention to review or change the tariff regime. Obviously, once we have left the EU, future Governments may decide to review that, but the present Government have no intention to change anything in regard to gas tariffs.

Question put and agreed to.

Article 50 Extension Procedure

Debate between Kwasi Kwarteng and Alan Whitehead

Monday 18th March 2019 Commons Chamber

[Kwasi Kwarteng]

No.

[Dr Alan Whitehead (Southampton, Test) (Lab)]

The Minister has stated that there will be time to debate the SI that he is intending to bring before the House. Could he unequivocally state now that it is his intention that the SI will be debated on the Floor of the House and not in a Delegated Legislation Committee? If he cannot do that, will he unequivocally state that, if it is to be debated in a Delegated Legislation Committee, the composition of that Committee will reflect the political make-up of this House and, thus, have no majority for any one party?

[Kwasi Kwarteng]

Obviously, as I have said in other answers, the nature of the SI debate is something for business questions. I recommend that the hon. Gentleman asks the Leader of the House how that process—[Interruption.] He understands the proceedings of the House and how this House works. That is a matter for the business managers but, having been a Member of this House for nine years, I would be surprised if the SI were not debated on the Floor of this House.