Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill

Debate between Kim Leadbeater and Toby Perkins

Friday 16th May 2025 Commons Chamber

[Kim Leadbeater]

There is absolutely nothing in the Bill that has any suggestion that any funding would be impacted by whatever decisions organisations make around assisted dying.

I will make some progress. New clause 10(1) states clearly:

“No person is under any duty to participate in the provision of assistance in accordance with this Act.”

That is something I feel strongly on a personal level. If people do not want to be involved, they should not have to be involved, and those who do, should. Subsection (5) covers pharmacists and pharmacy technicians and new schedule 1 provides comprehensive employment protections, so I hope that whatever colleagues’ views are on assisted dying, they will see the value of these changes and support them.

[Mr Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

I thank my hon. Friend for these amendments, because a number of people have written to me concerned about the very issue that she is raising. Does she agree that many people will just be opposed to assisted dying in all its forms, and I entirely respect that, but if that is really their objection, they should be honest about that and not pretend that it is only particular amendments they need? They should make the argument that they actually want to make.

[Kim Leadbeater]

I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention, and I agree that we must be respectful, but we must also be honest with each other.

Amendment (a) to new clause 10 was tabled by the hon. Member for Reigate (Rebecca Paul), who I thank for her work on the Bill Committee. I understand the thinking behind the amendment, but I worry about unintended consequences for patient care and protection. I have been advised that that is the case, and I think the Minister will speak to that. I think there is consensus across the House that, in the interests of patient safety, it is vital that there is clear and open communication, and sharing of information, between healthcare professionals in the assisted dying process. If an employer can stop their whole workforce participating in any sort of assisted dying services, it could prevent the sharing of information or the recording of information in a patient’s records. That could relate to safeguarding, and it could put patients at risk as a result of the employer’s decision. Terminally ill patients may be receiving different treatment at different places and from different healthcare professionals, and it would potentially be harmful if they were not able to transfer information or records.

There are also workability issues with amendment (a) to new clause 10. It is not clear how it would work with regard to the requirement in subsection (7) for professionals to provide information to an assessing doctor about a patient—someone whom they may have previously treated—or in relation to information about a specific condition that they may specialise in. That information would need to be provided in the interests of patient care. An employee will always be bound by their contract of employment, but flexibility is needed, as many health and care professionals work for multiple employers. It is not uncommon for clinical staff to have more than one employer—for example, a doctor may be employed by the NHS but also work for a hospice—so it is not a straightforward scenario. Just as it would be wrong for anyone to be compelled to be involved in the process, it would be wrong for anyone to be prevented from doing so, particularly if there was an impact on patient safety.

Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill

Debate between Kim Leadbeater and Toby Perkins

2nd reading
Friday 29th November 2024 Commons Chamber

[Kim Leadbeater]

I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention. I suggest that the Bill will give society a much better approach towards end of life. We are already hearing conversations about dying and death which I do not think we have heard enough in this country. We have to take a holistic view. Indeed, that is what happens in other countries and other jurisdictions. Having those deep and meaningful conversations about death and dying is really important. My hon. Friend’s comments bring me on nicely to the protections and safeguards in the Bill.

[Mr Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

A decade ago, I voted against a similar Bill, because I felt that perhaps it was not perfect and there were more things that I needed to know. My hon. Friend is right that we have not talked about death for the 10 years since or considered any legislation. The truth is that if we vote against her Bill today, it will be the end of the conversation once again for another decade.