Workplace Pay Gaps

Kim Johnson Excerpts

Tuesday 7th January 2025 Westminster Hall

[Dawn Butler (Brent East) (Lab)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered pay gaps in the workplace.

Thank you, Sir Roger. I wish everybody a happy new year, too, and it is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship.

There are multiple pay gaps in the workplace. I have had emails about the age pay gap, size pay gap and accent pay gaps—as a certified cockney, I know that that is true, and just for the record, some of the most intelligent people I know are cockneys. But today, for Ethnicity Pay Gap Day, I want to focus on gender, ethnicity and disability pay gaps. The key point is that if we measure something, we can fix it, but at the current rate, it will take another 40 years to fix the gender and ethnicity pay gap. Nobody should feel happy about that slow rate of progress; and imagine how long it will take to fix the disability pay gap—it will take even longer.

Last year, the Fawcett Society reported that Equal Pay Day fell on 20 November, two days earlier than the year before, and that essentially meant that from 20 November until the end of the year women were working for free. It is shocking that, on average, women earn £630 less a month than their male counterparts. On social media, people sometimes say, “What is this all about? Are you trying to reduce how much men are paid?” That is not what this is about. It is about fairness and equality and about paying people more, not less. I do not want on social media the manipulation and the misinformation of people saying, when we talk about equal rights and fairness, that that is somehow doing down men, because it absolutely is not. Currently, the ethnicity pay gap is 5.6% and the disability pay gap is 12.7%. That is a whopping pay gap.

The Government are to be applauded for their ambition and plan to make work pay. The Prime Minister said, as part of his new year message:

“The security of working people…is the purpose of this government.”

That is something that we should all applaud: working people should be secure in their job and in their work. Following the King’s Speech, companies of 250-plus employees have to report ethnicity and disability pay gaps, which is welcome. It is also welcome that gender pay gap reporting has been expanded to include equality action plans. That is great, but producing equality action plans is not enough. What will companies do with the action plans? How will they ensure that they use the action plans to close the pay gaps? It is one step, but it does not go far enough.

It has to be acknowledged that what we do now will actually make the workplace better for everybody—not just women, people with disabilities and people of different ethnicities. Everybody will benefit if the workplace is fairer. Research has found that men want flexibility in the workplace. This is always framed as women wanting flexibility in the workplace, but the reality is that men also want flexibility, so if we make that a standard, everybody will be happy. And no matter who is doing the job, doing the work, they should be paid fairly. That should be the case no matter who they are or what they look like, so there also needs to be a concerted effort whereby we stop stereotyping people into jobs or creating structures that try to normalise inequality.

[Kim Johnson (Liverpool Riverside) (Lab)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this debate. The Equality Act 2010 states that it is illegal to discriminate on the basis of race, yet in 2024, black people earned an hourly mean rate 19.04% lower than their white counterparts. The Employment Rights Bill provides an opportunity for employers to develop and publish an equality action plan. However, those action plans at the moment cover only gender. Does my hon. Friend agree that the Government need to place more emphasis on ethnicity gap issues, and that that Bill, which is in Committee, needs to make that right by covering them at this stage?

[Dawn Butler]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. If our ambition is to make the workplace fairer and secure it for everybody, we should take the opportunities laid before us. That is one opportunity to ensure that we not only close the gap but make workplaces fairer.

There was one case that was easy to identify as a trade union official: men were called chefs and women were called cooks, and chefs were paid a higher rate than cooks. That was an easy one, once we could figure out what was going on. A more difficult case was that of Kay, who said:

“I had been working as a chef with a large catering company for ten years. During a casual conversation, my colleague mentioned he was being paid £22,000 a year. This was £6,000 a year more than me. I thought the right to equal pay would mean I was being paid fairly. For years, I went to work each day without knowing I was being paid less than those I was working alongside. I am not an isolated case. I know there are many women who, like me, don’t realise they are experiencing pay discrimination.”

That picks up on the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool Riverside (Kim Johnson). The law is there, but if someone does not know what the person next to them, who is doing the same job, is paid, they could be discriminated against.

Some people will say that some men and women do different jobs, different types of work or different hours. The law says the “same work” or “work of equal value”, but even when men and women work the same hours and in the same roles, nearly two thirds of the gender pay gap remains unexplained. That points to pay discrimination, which we must tackle as a Government. How do we tackle that and move faster towards security, fairness and equality? One way is transparency. It is important for people to know who is being paid what and why. We should introduce the right to know. In Kay’s situation, she should be able to see how much X is being paid and know that there is a £6,000 pay deficit. We also need actionable and enforceable action plans. Again, an organisation may have identified a pay gap, but unless it has committed to closing that gap, that probably will not happen. Another way companies can do that is by assigning it as a key performance indicator. We have found that when organisations assign that to somebody as a KPI, real action is taken and pay gaps begin to close.

The Government have a huge role to play not just through legislation, in terms of the Equal Pay Act and so on, but by securing the circular economy. The Government can have an active role in making the workplace fairer by ensuring, as has been done in some areas, that they give contracts only to companies that pay people well and fairly and do not have a pay gap. So the Government’s procurement contract processes can ensure that they give contracts only to companies that follow good practices, which will enrich the circular economy. This is not just about doing the right thing. Companies that pay people well and employ the right people for the right jobs generally have a 15% higher profit margin than their nearest counterparts. That also plays out in the fact that a lot of young people are becoming socially informed, so they like to shop with companies that have good ethics and consider climate change. This approach will benefit everybody and is good in itself.

As I come to the end of my speech, some may wonder why I have not mentioned fines. The Minister may correct me, but to my knowledge no company has been fined for its gender pay gap. Unless that part of the law is strengthened, it is meaningless. I am interested to know how we can ensure that we fine companies that are not closing their pay gaps, and what the Government plan to do with any money that is collected.

There is a stark difference across UK regions, with some doing better than others. London has the largest ethnicity pay gap, which currently stands at a whopping 23.8%. That is appalling in one of the most diverse capital cities in the world and the financial capital city of the UK. As chair of the London parliamentary Labour party, I want to accelerate the move towards closing those pay gaps. I commend Dianne Greyson, founder of #EthnicityPayGap, for her work on that.

As chair of the all-party parliamentary group on governance and inclusive leadership—GAIL—I launched a maturity matrix in Parliament. That guide is available online for free for companies to implement in their workplace. It takes them through various stages to recognise and close pay gaps. That has been so successful that companies have asked for it to be expanded for disability and other things, which is currently being done. That is a free resource because, ultimately, we want better and fairer workplaces.

People should be paid fairly on merit. No one should be paid less for their work because of their gender, colour of their skin, ethnicity, background, accent, size, age or class. If we get this right on gender, ethnicity and disability, we will create a better and fairer work environment for all.