Enterprise Bill [Lords]

Kevin Foster Excerpts

Wednesday 9th March 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Spelman]

My hon. Friend makes a perfectly valid but separate point. I am addressing the question of whether keeping shops open longer will stop people shopping online; he wants people to have jobs servicing the online industry. As has been pointed out, a number of high street stores are successful in maintaining their high street position and at the same time giving an online offer.

I am prepared to concede that we need to remain competitive as a country, so I asked the British embassy in Paris to give me details of the recent change in French Sunday trading laws. Essentially, my amendment, which I have tabled with the help of the Clerks, seeks to mirror as closely as possible how the French Government have approached the very same question by designating localised tourist zones.

The Macron law—it is named after the Minister who introduced it—extended the number of Sundays for trading in France from five a year to 12 a year. Essentially, it is one Sunday a month. By happy coincidence, it created 12 zones. Six are in Paris, and it might be a welcome distraction to Members to run through where they are: Boulevard Haussmann, Champs-Élysées, Saint-Germain and Montmartre. That gives colleagues a sense of the size of the zones that the French Government identified. There are zones in six other regional cities, including Cannes, Deauville and Nice.

That allowed local government to designate smaller tourist zones, where shops under special licence could open for longer. The right hon. Member for Tottenham (Mr Lammy) indirectly asked how the French Government designated tourist zones. The answer to his question is that they collected data on the profile of shoppers who used those zones. Their definition was that the zone should show exceptional attendance by tourists residing abroad. Crucially, those tourist zones do not have wider application, which reduces the negative effects on smaller shops and convenience stores, which we have discussed.

The Olympic park experience is important because, in essence, it is the only practical pilot we have to go on when discussing the likely impact of extended opening. When the practical experience of 2012 was analysed by Oxford Economics, it was ascertained, as Members have pointed out, that small and medium-sized enterprises in up to a two-mile radius from large supermarkets in the area lost over 3% of their weekly sales income. If that is extrapolated to the national scale, it is estimated there would be an annual loss of £870 million in sales for all types of convenience stores and a net loss of 3,270 retail jobs in England and Wales, were longer Sunday trading hours to be made permanent, in line with the experiment during the Olympics.

I have been contacted by local Nisa and SPAR convenience store providers concerned about the implications of these changes on smaller stores. I also share the deeper concerns expressed by my hon. Friends, including my hon. Friend the Member for Enfield, Southgate (Mr Burrowes), the Keep Sunday Special campaign and the Church of England, about the erosion of a general day of leisure on which people can be available for shared activities with friends and family, especially those who build up community spirit and strengthen families.

I have talked to shop workers in large stores who often get their free time in half days on days other than Sunday, when family and friends might not be available. Until today, we have not had a detailed impact assessment, so I tend to agree with the Bishop of St Albans, the lead spokesman in the Church of England on Sunday trading. He said that:

“an increase in opening hours will only lead to more people being pressured into spending Sunday apart from their children and families.”

[Kevin Foster (Torbay) (Con)]

As my right hon. Friend will be aware, I represent a constituency with a large tourism industry. How would her suggestion work, given that in Paignton, for example, parts of the town centre are used by locals, yet the out-of-town supermarket is used by people going to the holiday camps? How would this result in a tourist zone?

[Mrs Spelman]

This is essentially a devolved proposal. It would be for local authorities to express an interest in being a designated tourist zone. My amendment limits temporally and geographically the potentially deleterious impact on SMEs. It has the capacity to deal with extended opening hours during the British holiday season, as well as during the Christmas season, when many places—Blackpool, for example—experience an increase in tourist trade.

Research has shown that the majority of shop workers do not welcome the opportunity to work longer hours on a Sunday. I commend Ministers for including improved legal protections in the current provisions, but the practical reality in the workplace is that if someone is worried about losing their job, they will not want to ask for a special concession not to have to work on a Sunday. Similarly, if someone wants a promotion, they will not want to ask for that concession, because their competitors in the promotion stakes might not ask for a comparable one.

I welcome the Government amendment, which did make it on to the amendment paper, to give local authorities the power to restrict Sunday trading to zones, but I am concerned that the zoning is potentially too broad in its impact. For example, it would not be strong enough to avoid a combined local authority-wide mega-zone occurring, which, in my view, would have an excessively negative impact. A trial would also make it difficult to discern the selected impacts on different businesses within such a wide zone.

It is obviously not the Minister’s fault that the manuscript amendment was not selected. He indicated that it gave us a feeling for what he would like to do—it was a valiant effort—but the difficulty for parliamentarians is that it is not actually on the amendment paper. As somebody said, we need an amendment that we can feel and touch. I believe that a compromise that benefits families and UK competition lies in the tourist-zone model. I strongly encourage Members to support this compromise.

--- Later in debate ---

[Alan Brown]

I did not speak in favour of Sunday trading in Committee, because I did not speak about Sunday trading in Committee, and the record will prove that. My hon. Friend the Member for Livingston (Hannah Bardell) spoke in favour of stronger workers’ rights, and that is also there for the record.

I have mentioned cash retentions, and the Minister’s attitude to dealing with that matter is to acknowledge that it is an issue but to say, “Don’t worry, we have a Government review. We will do the review and then we will implement the measures.” We have to put all the trust in the Minister, but we should consider what the proceedings on Sunday trading show. The Prime Minister said, “We won’t be doing Sunday trading” but it was then proposed, even though it was not in the manifesto, and today we have seen last-minute deals. That proves that we cannot have any trust there, which is why I wanted to have a vote about cash retentions.

[Kevin Foster]

I was interested to hear the hon. Gentleman’s comments on Sunday trading. Will people working in Scotland’s largest supermarkets be able to look forward to hours restrictions from the SNP Government at Holyrood, given the SNP’s attitude towards that issue in England?

[Alan Brown]

It is a different argument. The Government did not publish a full, proper impact assessment. The impact assessment that came before me was suggesting that workers might lose up to £1,400 a year and there could be £70 million lost out of the Scottish economy—that is from a published economist. When the Government cannot counteract that, I will go with that information. My conscience told me to vote on that basis and do the right thing.

Let me conclude on the cash retentions. We are seeking a retention deposit scheme similar to the tenant deposit scheme. This has been implemented in other countries— it has just been introduced in New Zealand—and shown to work well. It would protect small businesses. Up to £3 billion is held in cash retentions at any one time, and £40 million was lost in 2015—this is money the small companies could not recover because of bankruptcy in the other companies. Given that this recovery is meant to be based on small and medium-sized enterprises, this was another missed opportunity by the Government. I will leave it at that.

--- Later in debate ---

[Amanda Solloway]

I have limited time available to me now, so let me just say that I think Sunday trading would enhance the role of retailers and give people the choice that they very much want to have.

[Kevin Foster]

Does my hon. Friend share my surprise that the Opposition seem uninterested in the small business commissioner, who will make a real difference to small businesses, and that they just want to harp on about one issue instead?

[Amanda Solloway]

With the House’s permission, I will continue discussing the small business commissioner. Under the current system, payment disputes too often cannot be resolved without cases going to court. That costly process is limiting to small businesses and, if pursued, can lead to further financial pressures, making it a barely viable option to small business to have any kind of legal battle.

With my background in retail, I have often seen directly how late payments, often by larger and more robust businesses, can be crippling to small businesses. There may well even be a culture of large firms dragging their heels when it comes to making payments. What those firms disregard is how serious it can be to these small businesses not to make payments on time.

A recent study in Derby found that one in five businesses in the region is a victim of late payments, and that can be crippling.