Health and Social Care Bill (Programme) (No. 2)

Kevin Brennan Excerpts

Tuesday 21st June 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Burns]

If Opposition Members were more interested in listening than in trying to be disruptive, they would discover that after setting the scene I will deal precisely with the recommittal and our reasons for proposing it.

We will replace that culture with a bottom-up culture of clinical leadership and patient choice and an unfaltering focus on improving health outcomes.

While there has always been widespread agreement on the principles of modernisation—a fact that even the shadow Secretary of State now accepts—there have been concerns in some quarters that the Bill could support those principles better.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. Some of us wish to talk about the programme motion that we are supposed to be debating, and indeed to intervene on the Minister if he will give way, as he said that he would at the outset. Can the Minister be persuaded to discuss the motion that is before the House?

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

Several Members wish to participate in this very short debate. It will last for only an hour, and we are already well into that hour. Will the Minister now refer directly to the programme motion?

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[Mr Burns]

The hon. Gentleman seems a little confused. He is talking about 1983, but if he had been listening he would know that I have already said that two Bills were recommitted in 2003. I also said that if Opposition Members wait, I will explain the context of those Bills vis-à-vis the current situation. I therefore urge them to show patience, as they will then learn something.

[Kevin Brennan]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. In fact, the last Bill to be partially recommitted to a Committee was the Mineral Workings Bill in 1951, some 60 years ago, but the Minister is not referring to that.

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[John Healey]

I can and I have. This is a reckless and needless reorganisation, which has led to confusion and chaos over the past year. If the House does not help to get the legislation right by doing its proper job, that chaos and confusion and the wasted cost—money that should be spent on patient care—will continue.

[Kevin Brennan]

Is it not an abuse to use this procedure, which is very rare? According to the Library, the most recent example of a partial recommittal of a Bill to the same Committee was the Mineral Workings Bill in 1951 because of an inadvertent error in the original Committee stage. It is totally wrong to use the procedure. The whole Bill should be recommitted.

[John Healey]

My hon. Friend has a point. What is wrong is a partial recommittal of the Bill, because the Bill requires full scrutiny of the full provisions with the changes that the Government propose to make, once we have had a chance to see them.

The Health Minister and Government Members urge us to go faster. Everything this Government have done with their NHS reorganisation has been rushed and reckless, and the motion signals that they are set to repeat the mistake by railroading the Bill through at breakneck speed and denying this elected House its proper role in scrutinising the legislation. Labour tabled a motion a month ago for the full Bill to be reconsidered in Committee, for more time to look at the detail of the amendments and for proper scrutiny and debate in Committee.

--- Later in debate ---

[Kevin Brennan]

Does the hon. Gentleman think it right in principle that the Government should be able to choose the parts of the Bill in Committee to which Members from any party, Front Benchers or Back Benchers, might want to introduce amendments?

[Mr Bone]

The hon. Gentleman makes a really important point, one that I am wrestling with before I decide how to vote. If we had a business of the House committee, that problem would not arise, because the decision would be made in public and not by the Executive, but we are where we are. To the Government’s credit they avoided Standing Orders by allowing us to have a debate—however short—today. Standing Orders called for this motion to be decided forthwith and without a debate, so the Government should get credit for that.

There are a number of issues, but an important one is whether the whole Bill should be recommitted. I can see many arguments for that, but I can see also an alternative view, which says, “You’re going to look in more detail and have more time if you look at provisions that have effectively been changed.”

The Government talk about moving 160 amendments, and the Opposition will move amendments, but I hope that in Committee Back Benchers will do so, too. The problem for the Committee’s Chairmen is that they will have to consider how to deal with those amendments that are approved and consequential to earlier parts of the Bill, but I think that they will do so sensibly.

I have some doubts about the same people being on the Committee. I volunteered to sit on it and wrote to the Chairman of the Committee of Selection. There is an argument for fresh faces on the Committee, but the really important point is how Members on both sides behave in Committee. If they go there to scrutinise the Bill, if they are willing to table sensible amendments and if they vote according to their conscience and not on party lines, we will have real scrutiny.

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[Andrew Percy]

I take the hon. Gentleman’s point. That has already been discussed. The key thing now is to debate the parts of the Bill that the Government have said they intend to amend, and perhaps that will mean that we can debate them in more depth. I want to know what the provisions are going to be to prevent cherry-picking. The shadow Secretary of State said that this is an attempt by the Government to break up the NHS and bring in market forces. I would not want to be a member of any political party that attempted to do that, so I want to know about the Government amendments.

[Kevin Brennan]

I respect the hon. Gentleman’s respect for Parliament and therefore put to him what I said earlier: on a point of principle, is it not wrong that the Government should be able to select the parts of the Bill that they want to have scrutinised and not allow Members from all parts of the House an opportunity to do so? Does that not set an extremely dangerous precedent?

[Andrew Percy]

We have discussed where these procedures come from and who is accountable for them, and that certainly cannot be laid at the door of this Government. Over the past few months, we have heard first that there has been too much delay, and now that there is not enough delay.

As we have heard, professionals in the health service and the public have been saying that they wanted to know where we were heading and that they needed some clarity. The Government wanted that brought to an end, and they have had their listening exercise. On that basis alone, although I do not like the idea of curtailing debate, I hope that we can get on with this so that we all know what the changes are going to be, and that we end up with an NHS that is on a stable footing for the long term and do not have any more reorganisation for a considerable time.

--- Later in debate ---

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

I just reiterate the point that 1951 is the last time that this exact procedure was used. The Government are setting a dangerous precedent. This is an abuse of parliamentary procedure and it does not enable the House to consider all parts of the Bill. The recommittal of Bills is quite a rare procedure in this House.

Southern Cross Healthcare

Kevin Brennan Excerpts

Thursday 16th June 2011 Commons Chamber

[Paul Burstow]

As I have indicated, in the work that we are currently doing preparatory to producing a White Paper later this year, we are engaged with many stakeholders in discussing quality and regulation. We want to ensure that we are clear about the right questions to ask in framing policy, and that we then get the right policy to deliver a more sustainable, high-quality social care system for the future.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

The point that my right hon. Friend the Member for Wolverhampton South East (Mr McFadden) made is the key one. The Minister has been very careful not to say what he should be saying, and I understand why—his officials will have told him not to. Will he pledge to the House that if there is a catastrophe of the kind we all want to avoid, every vulnerable person who should not be moved will be able to stay in their residential home? That is the pledge that we need to hear from him today. He needs to show some leadership as the Minister responsible.

[Paul Burstow]

The pledge that I can give to the House today is that all local authorities with Southern Cross care homes and responsibilities for residents whom they have placed there are clear about their statutory duties to guarantee and provide care, not just for state-funded residents, but for those who are self-funded. That is the clearest guarantee that I can offer—it is the essential guarantee of continuity of care.

NHS Future Forum

Kevin Brennan Excerpts

Tuesday 14th June 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

The hon. Gentleman will know that when I came forward with the White Paper last year, or the Command Paper in December, or the Bill, we did so collectively as a Government, and I can assure him and all my colleagues that we will continue collectively to agree on the basis on which we take all these issues forward.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

Some say that the reason the Secretary of State went too far, too fast and has now come up with a fix that is too little, too late is that he has a bit of a tendency to be pig-headed and cloth-eared when people disagree with him. I do not agree with those who say that, but could he now find the humility and courage at least to say sorry for the mess he has made?

[Mr Lansley]

rose—

Swine Flu

Kevin Brennan Excerpts

Monday 10th January 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

The £162 million will be allocated to primary care trusts based on the social care allocation formula, which will be the same for next year. Any GP surgery, or for that matter the primary care trust in Merseyside, is free to come to us to order supplies from the national stockpile of the H1N1 vaccine to ensure that those who require vaccination can receive it.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

In his answer to my hon. Friend the Member for Walsall South (Valerie Vaz), the Secretary of State was clearly giving an after-the-fact justification for his failure to act on the winter awareness campaign earlier in the year. He is fond of telling anyone who ventures to criticise him that they are completely wrong. Will he admit that on this occasion, as far as the awareness campaign is concerned, he was the one who was completely wrong?