Support for Ukraine and Countering Threats from Russia

Kevan Jones Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd March 2022 Commons Chamber

[The Minister for the Armed Forces (James Heappey)]

The House stands united today in our support for Ukraine and the Ukrainian people. We showed that in the way we rose to support the Ukrainian ambassador before Prime Minister’s questions, and, for all the necessary challenge over policy that goes on in this place, we will show it again this afternoon, because fundamentally we in this House are agreed that President Putin’s ill-conceived enterprise in Ukraine must not and will not succeed.

But how we achieve that is not just through the sanctions we impose, the military aid we provide or the breadth of the cultural and diplomatic isolation we secure, as important as all those things are; it is through the beacon of hope we provide, and not only for the Ukrainian people but for the Russian people too. How they would love to have a day where the opposition choose the topics for debate, immediately after a session in which the legislature, without fear, can challenge the Head of Government. Indeed—perhaps no Government Minister has ever said this from the Dispatch Box before—how lucky we are to have an Opposition altogether.

We have grown complacent over that freedom. We do not value it as we should. It is no cliché to remind the House that freedom is not free and that no matter how much we complain about the imperfections of our own politics, people have fought and died so that we can argue in this place and in our national media over whatever we wish. Today in Ukraine, people are fearful that those days may soon be over for them. They know only too well that freedom is not free. In the lifetime of their most senior citizens, they have lost their freedom and recovered it twice already. It is no wonder that so many thousands of Ukrainian men and women are rallying to the flag to ensure they do not lose it again.

[Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)]

I put on record my thanks to the Defence Secretary and the Minister for their actions over the past few weeks. They have shown proper leadership on this. Will the Minister support comments from Gerry Connolly, who is the president of the NATO Parliamentary Assembly? He is arguing within NATO for a centre for democracy, to make exactly the arguments that the Minister is making, to reinforce among our populations why we have NATO and what it is defending.

[James Heappey]

I think I instinctively support the proposition. It is extraordinary—forgive me, Madam Deputy Speaker; I know you were keen on brevity, but this is a tangent too interesting to miss, frankly—but when we came together after the second world war to bring NATO into being, it went without saying that the freedom, liberty and democracy we all enjoy was something we should collectively stand for, but in the 70 years or so that have passed since, we have forgotten what a luxury that is. We have forgotten how to speak proudly about freedom without being criticised as somehow trying to shut down the other side. There absolutely is a market for the west to relearn that we can disagree with each other ferociously and we can have polarised societies in which one side simply cannot abide the very existence of the argument of the other, yet we can still see the good in that and communicate it strongly to those who do not have that luxury.

In this debate today, we must also be clear on who our quarrel is with. When we talk of aggression, deceit and contempt for the international system, we must not talk about “Russia”; we must talk of Putin and the kleptocrats that surround him. When we talk of who must pay the price for this grotesque violation of international law, we must blame Putin, the Russian elites and the hubris of the Kremlin’s military leaders, but again, not the Russian people.

We want the Russian people to enjoy the freedom, democracy and security that we have been taking for granted. We want them to know that NATO and the west mean them no harm. We are a defensive alliance, and we were recasting ourselves for an altogether different future until President Putin annexed Crimea and challenged the sovereignty of so many other countries in eastern Europe and the Caucasus. When President Putin fails—and he eventually will—we look forward to a Euro-Atlantic where Russia and the rest of Europe exist as friends and neighbours. In the meantime, we stand our ground not to intimidate the Russian people, but to deter their President, who is a bully and has caused too many in our alliance to think that they could be next.

I would like to provide the House with a brief update on the situation in Ukraine. Russian forces have met strong resistance and are behind schedule on their intended plans. We recognise, unfortunately, that the cities of Melitopol and Kherson in the south of the country have fallen, but that brave resistance remains in both. Colleagues, those were both day one objectives for the Russian armed forces, and both only fell in recent days after fierce opposition. Everywhere else in the country, no other city or major town has fallen to the advancing invaders. As much as that should be a cause for celebration and hope, it is important we remain realistic about what is still to come. The harder the Ukrainians fight back, the harder Putin will order his military to push. Already, we have seen a horrific artillery and missile barrage on Kharkiv among other places. I am fearful for what is to come in Kyiv. As the Prime Minister has said today, and as the right hon. Member for Wentworth and Dearne (John Healey) rightly noted, there is already clear evidence that in applying indiscriminate force in the way that he has, President Putin and his military leadership have already committed war crimes.

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[Stewart Malcolm McDonald (Glasgow South) (SNP)]

I thank the shadow Secretary of State, the right hon. Member for Wentworth and Dearne (John Healey), for his fine speech and the Minister for his fine response to it. As I am sure others will do as the debate goes on, I thank the Government for the genuine openness that they have shown to Members of the House as the situation has developed. It has made a huge difference to all Members to have that level of access and detail from the Department.

We all look on in horror at what we see on our TV screens with the train stations of a major European capital city and cities across that country filling up with refugees. We thought, did we not, that we had left such scenes behind in our history, but they are back with us once again. Cluster bombs are being used on cities like Kharkiv, a city I visited and know well. It breaks my heart to see what is happening to people in Ukraine: war crimes—war crimes—being committed in 2022 on the continent of Europe. We even have a situation where towns and villages are being surrounded by Russian troops to starve the local population of food, water and other supplies they need to survive. That takes on a particular resonance in a country that in its past suffered, almost 100 years ago, a famine genocide organised by Stalin that killed many millions of Ukrainians and is still very much alive in the minds of Ukrainians to this day. One of the most horrifying things we saw yesterday was the bombing of a holocaust memorial in the capital city of Kyiv. So terrible is it that it puts to bed the utter lie of Putin’s claim to be denazifying Ukraine. Ukraine has denazified itself in the past and will continue to do so in its future.

Like others, I want to pay tribute to the heroism of President Zelensky, the Ukrainian armed forces and the Ukrainian people themselves. I have been in daily contact with friends, MPs and others who I have gotten to know over my many trips there over the years and they still show the incredible resolve, generosity and kindness that we all know them for. They have their own family members and their own safety to worry about, but still they are helping Members of this House to get their constituents to safe places. Some of them are still keeping up their spirits with a sense of humour. Kira Rudyk, leader of the Opposition Holos party, was on UK news this afternoon. It was put to her that she, like every other Member of the Verkhovna Rada, is on Putin’s kill list. She responded by reminding everyone that she is also on the top 10 bachelorette list in Ukraine, so she hopes that that somewhat balances out. To maintain that level of generous spirit and maintain that level of dignity and resolve that we have seen in these circumstances? I suppose we could all hope that we would do the same, but I am not so sure that many of us would.

My party and I have supported the Government over their actions in Ukraine. We have ensured that they get the support from the SNP Benches for the defensive equipment, economic support, and political and diplomatic support they have given to Ukraine, and we will keep doing that. Indeed, like others and, I suspect, the Minister himself, we always want to see the Government go further. That is the job, I think, of the Opposition here. Yes, we are united, but we always want to push the Government to go further where they should.

There are two areas where the Government should. First, on sanctions, it is the case that we are behind other international actors and we want the screws to be turned and turned quickly. Like the hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant), we agree that there are almost certainly legitimate reasons why we have not done that, but we need to do what we can to fix it. Secondly, on refugees, the Minister is right. Most people will want to stay in a country close to Ukraine, because they want to return to Ukraine. I well understand why people will want to get back there and rebuild their country—it is a proud country and a proud democracy—but we do stand alone in putting in front of people fleeing war crimes all the unnecessary bureaucracy that does not need to be there. I plead with the Government to change that stance and be more open and welcoming, and at least match the offer of EU member states.

It cannot be said enough that our conflict or disagreement is not with the citizens of Russia itself. It is a proud country and it has made incredible contributions over the years to science, innovation, arts, culture and much else. Indeed, Scotland and Russia have shared many connections, not least militarily, over the years. The Russian people, as we are starting to see, are victims of a sort in this conflict as well. As the sanctions start to bite, there will be consequences for them. Indeed, they are already starting to feel it. This war is over one man’s imperial hubris that started not last week, but in 2014. It has already seen the deaths of around 15,000 Ukrainians, and that is before we count the Russian dead. It has displaced about 2 million Ukrainians in their own land.

It is worth taking ourselves back to how this started. It was nothing to do with NATO or the west; it was all because Ukrainians decided that they wanted a European, Euro-Atlantic future, and they wanted Putin’s boot off their neck. Ukraine threatened no one, and remains a threat to no one.

In time—today is not the day for it—we will have to consider exactly what has happened and how the European security architecture has been thrown up in the air like a kaleidoscope. The Minister and the shadow Defence Secretary rightly mentioned the change in German policy. We all watched with our jaws open as the Chancellor reversed 30 years of energy policy and 70 years of defence policy on Sunday. The European Union is now a much stronger military alliance than we ever thought it would be. If someone had told me that that was where it was going two weeks ago, I would not have taken them seriously. That is something for us all to take the time to think about. The integrated review will need to be revisited; only a fool would think otherwise. I was always sceptical of the Indo-Pacific tilt. This is not a time for I-told-you-sos—most definitely not—but all of us in this country and in other countries around Europe will need to rethink defence and security postures going forward.

We are the custodians of the treaties and institutions that were set up to maintain peace and security across Europe, and we need to ask ourselves what we need to do to fix them, because they are more than creaking at the seams right now. How have we got ourselves into a situation where we are seriously contemplating a Government who are accused of committing a genocide against their people—China and the Uyghurs—presiding over peace talks about war crimes carried out by their ally in Moscow against people in Ukraine? I am not sure it could be argued that we have been very good custodians of those treaties and institutions, which have so far by and large held up, but are creaking in a massively unprecedented way.

There will be time to debate those things in the future. Today we must focus on Ukraine, Ukrainians and the war criminals who are carrying out this horror in that nation. For me—if you will indulge me, Madam Deputy Speaker—this is personal, having taken many trips back and forward, like many other Members of the House. We have friends in common, actually. I have phoned friends whose children I can hear in the background being loaded into cars to flee cities—cities in which I have enjoyed meals with their families. I was in Kyiv this time last month. Even then, it did not feel like a city that was on the brink of war. I have been on the phone to friends and heard shells going off in the background—the calls cut off as they have to run. Then there is always that hellish thought when I call someone or text them and for hours do not hear back, and do not know whether they are safe.

It is personal for me, and for many of us in this House. I enjoyed nothing more than welcoming friends from Ukraine to Glasgow for COP26. I had hoped that they would be in my constituency for the Scotland-Ukraine match, although I am not sure what it would have done for our reputation if we had beaten them.

[Mr Kevan Jones]

No chance of that.

[Stewart Malcolm McDonald]

Well, a boy can dream. That now will not happen, but Ukraine is a democracy and the Ukrainians are a free people. They need and deserve our support and focus, and the unity of this House—today, tomorrow and going forward. I am sorry to say that the Minister is almost certainly correct that this will get worse before it gets better, so let us focus on how we make it better. It will require some big, bold thinking—a Marshall plan to rebuild that country from the destruction caused and the destruction yet to come.

In that, we must maintain unity. Where we push the Government to go further and faster, it is not because we want to be oppositionist for opposition’s sake—that is in nobody’s interest. Let us keep to the unity that Ukrainians need, because it is not just us watching the war in their country; we should ask ourselves what we want them to see when they read our newspapers or scroll through our social media accounts. I want them to see common cause to end the war, support Ukrainians and ensure that Ukraine’s democratic future, which they took a stand on in 2013 and into 2014, is still there. Ukrainians today are the real leaders of the free world, and they deserve nothing less.

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[Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)]

We stand united in this House with the people of Ukraine. These are dark days, as we see daily on television; it is also a dark time for Europe. We are seeing the invasion of a sovereign independent state and scenes that have not been seen since the second world war. My right hon. Friend the Member for Leeds Central (Hilary Benn) said that a way of life and a world order are being challenged; they are.

The institutions put in place after the second world war were created by men and women who had lived through the horrors of the first and second world wars. They established rules to avoid what we are seeing now in Ukraine. My party was proudly involved in the establishment of NATO—not an aggressive pact, but one that meant collective security and keeping peace in Europe. When Clem Attlee visited Berlin in 1949 to see the airlift around the Soviet blockade, he said that the system that operated behind the iron curtain was a “ghastly travesty” with no true freedom of speech—a system in which scientists, poets and artists were arrested for deviating from the ruling orthodoxy. That is what modern Russia has today.

May I dispel the arguments from all the individuals who say that it had to be like that? It did not. Look back to 1994, when we had the NATO-Russian partnership for peace and the Euro-Atlantic partnership—a way of trying to build with Russia a secure future not only for Russia, but for the rest of Europe. The reason that that approach has not borne fruit is President Putin, who has systematically raped the economy of Russia and who has impoverished people, with a smaller and smaller clique of individuals making the terrible decisions that have led to the invasion of Ukraine.

Did it have to be like that? No, it did not. Have we taken our eye off the ball? Yes, we have. The report by the Intelligence and Security Committee, on which the right hon. Member for Dundee East (Stewart Hosie) and I serve, is now two years old. It spells out very clearly the opportunities missed. I have to say that the Government have turned a blind eye and are doing so even now. They laud themselves for the sanctions that they have brought in, which I support, but has it taken the invasion of a European sovereign nation for them to wake up?

Even now, more can and should be done. We have to ensure that whatever we do now, we are united across Europe. Forget Brexit, forget political slogans about whatever the Germans or others do—we have to stand united in Europe with all those who oppose what is happening in Ukraine.

We also have to ensure that what we do will endure. There will not be a quick fix—I fear that the tragedy unfolding on our television screens will get a lot worse, alas—but we owe this to the people of Ukraine. To defend the way of life that we take for granted, we have to stand up in this House and speak our opinions freely. We also owe it to ourselves to ensure that the sanctions remain in place and that we work to protect those freedoms.