Parliamentary Scrutiny of Leaving the EU

Lord Beamish Excerpts

Wednesday 12th October 2016 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Gethins (North East Fife) (SNP)]

I welcome the new Opposition spokesperson, the hon. and learned Member for Holborn and St Pancras (Keir Starmer), to his role. We very much look forward to working with him during these crucial few months. I thank him for bringing this motion to the House. The Secretary of State has shown that he still has a long way to go to meet the doubts and questions that the hon. and learned Gentleman raised, but securing such a debate is a step in the right direction.

The talks and negotiations during this crucial period will have an impact across every policy area in every part of the country, but we are seeing very little in the way of detail. I fear that this lack of detail has more to do with a Cabinet who cannot agree among themselves than with any ideas about the negotiating strategy. I am a new Member of Parliament, but other hon. Members may be able to tell me whether it is normal for a Secretary of State—we welcome him—to spend so much time at the Dispatch Box without actually telling us anything. He spent a lot of time at the Dispatch Box, and I am none the wiser about where we are at the moment, which seems remarkable.

I wonder whether the Government can tell us something else about the negotiations. They tell us they will have the negotiations, but when my hon. Friend the Member for Airdrie and Shotts (Neil Gray) brought up the issue of the single market—other hon. Members have asked other key questions—they have shown that they cannot answer a simple question. That is striking. When they sit down with our European partners and start the negotiations, what will they say? What can they possibly tell our European partners? We do not even have a starting point.

[Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

--- Later in debate ---

[Stephen Gethins]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for raising those points and for visiting Edinburgh. I encourage him and his colleagues on the Committee to interact with their colleagues on the Committees of the Scottish Parliament. I am glad to be able to say this time that I think he has made a very fair point. I agree that that is what should happen.

[Mr Kevan Jones]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Stephen Gethins]

I want to make some progress.

Key questions need to be answered, for example, on the single market. I want to talk about European nationals for a moment. European nationals have made this country their home. They contribute significantly to our social and financial wellbeing. They make our society all the richer by being part of it. For the International Trade Secretary to describe them as “cards” was utterly unacceptable, although I note the Brexit Secretary is rowing back from that.

[Mr Jones]

rose—

[Stephen Gethins]

On that point, I give way to the hon. Gentleman, who has been trying to intervene.

[Mr Jones]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the Government cannot even be straight on the structural funds, which he mentioned? The Chancellor’s letter earlier this year refers only to funds allocated already, but not to the huge amounts of funding for the north-east, for example, that is yet to be allocated. Even on that there is confusion. If it is not the full amount, the north-east, like other regions, could lose hundreds of millions of pounds.

[Stephen Gethins]

The hon. Gentleman makes a valid point, and that situation affects universities, businesses and so many others, including cultural organisations such as St Athernase church in Leuchars in my constituency, which is 850 years old, and which was looking for European funding to help keep that jewel standing. It must now think about where it goes next, without any answers. We need to plan well beyond 2020, so he makes an excellent point.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sir William Cash (Stone) (Con)]

I must say, in response to the right hon. Member for Doncaster North (Edward Miliband), that there are of course those who do not and never will accept the outcome of the referendum and who will use almost any means at their disposal to try to overturn it or mitigate the result, while constantly and disingenuously stating their respect for it. That is abundantly clear.

This historic vote was an emphatic vote to leave the European Union. That was what was on the ballot paper. It was clear, and it follows from the fact that we are going to leave the European Union that Brexit does not just mean Brexit; it means the repeal of the European Communities Act 1972, which incorporates and absorbs all the laws and all the judgments of the European Court and all the matters that have come into this House and been imposed upon us by the 1972 Act.

There has been some talk about the Conservative manifesto. I have it here, and I mention it because it is relevant not only to some remarks off by some of my colleagues but to the future conduct of this matter in relation to the House of Lords. Our manifesto states:

“For too long, your voice has been ignored on Europe.”

That was stated in 2015 and put to the British people. It further stated that the Conservative party would

“give you a say over whether we should stay in or leave the EU, with an in-out referendum by the end of 2017”.

It then qualifies that—the precise date of the referendum was not known in 2015—by making some perfectly reasonable comments. It commits in the meantime or in parenthesis, as it were—it does not say that, but that is what it implies—to

“keeping the pound and staying out of the Eurozone”,

which is fair enough, and to

“reform the workings of the EU”.

So long as we are in the EU, we obviously want to reform those workings, because it is

“too big, too bossy and too bureaucratic”.

It goes on to state that the party will

“reclaim power from Brussels on your behalf and safeguard British interests in the Single Market”—

and I should hope that we would during that interim period, and

“back businesses to create jobs in Britain by completing ambitious trade deals and reducing red tape.”

That is what the manifesto said, and it provided the basis on which not only the general election but the referendum took place. The words in the question were quite clear:

“Do you want to ‘remain’ in or ‘leave’ the European Union?”

[Mr Kevan Jones]

I do not disagree with that, but the hon. Gentleman has skirted over the fact that the manifesto on which he stood gave a commitment to remain in the single market. Where is that now?

[Sir William Cash]

It is clear from the wording I read out that safeguarding British interests in the single market applies to the intervening period between the result of the general election, the introduction of the EU Referendum Bill and the referendum itself. Indeed, we are going to have to continue to do that until we get to the later stage.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)]

I welcome the debate. I agree with my right hon. Friend the Member for Wolverhampton South East (Mr McFadden) when he said that it was rather sad that anyone asking for scrutiny of the Government’s strategy, or lack of it, is being accused of wanting to reverse the decision of 23 June. That is clearly not my position. I can tell the right hon. Member for New Forest West (Sir Desmond Swayne) that what it means to me is that there is no going back, no second referendum and no deals to try to keep us in the EU by the back door. I agree with the Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union who said on Monday that Britain’s mandate to leave the EU was “clear and unarguable”. I agree, but the vote did not give the Government a road map or a vision of what post-Brexit Britain will look like. We now need to get the best possible deal for our constituents, to protect their interests and also their livelihoods. That is our duty as elected Members of Parliament.

I also do not think it fair just to sit back and ignore what the Government are doing over the next few years. I agree with what was said by my hon. Friend the Member for Leicester West (Liz Kendall) about the issue of the pound. We have heard loose talk from Ministers over the last few weeks, costing people not only their jobs but their livelihoods. What we need from the Government now, rather than slogans such as “Brexit means Brexit”, is a clear framework showing what the processes will be, and an indication of their vision of a post-Brexit Britain. Instead, we have a Prime Minister who, throughout the referendum campaign, claimed to be arguing for “in” but was as quiet as a church mouse, and who is now arguing stridently that the key issue is control of immigration. The person who has had the job of controlling immigration for the past six years is standing back as though it had nothing to do with her now.

We also saw the worst kind of dog-whistle politics at last week’s Conservative conference, pandering to prejudice rather than presenting alternatives and strategies that would be in the best interests of the people. The Prime Minister is reverting to type. She is trying to rise above this, hiding behind “Brexit means Brexit” and leaving it to the three Brexiteers. Well, we have the Foreign Secretary, who gambled on hitching himself to the Brexit bandwagon in the hope that the British people would not support it, and is now floundering over what to do. We have the Secretary of State for International Trade, whose ideology and vision for the country are more akin to Republican Tea Party politics than what I think most people here would want. Finally, we have the Secretary of State for Brexit, who, on the Back Benches, was the champion of the sovereign rights of the House of Commons, and is now performing a great act as poacher turned gamekeeper. He has spoken twice in making statements to the House, and he spoke again today. Was there any illumination of the Government’s strategy? No, none at all. There would have been more power in a 40-watt lightbulb.

The decisions that are now to be made for this country will not only affect people today; they will affect the country for generations. We, as parliamentarians, have a duty to ensure that we get the best possible deal for our constituents, and also to ensure that we continue to live in a tolerant, respectful country, which I think is one of the best aspects of being part of the United Kingdom.