Universal Credit Fraud

Debate between Justin Tomlinson and Janet Daby

Wednesday 10th July 2019 Commons Chamber

[Justin Tomlinson]

I cannot at this stage, but we are looking at this as we work through the cases referred. Regardless of the amounts, for each and every victim it is incredibly serious, which is why I reiterate our commitment to do everything in our power to use the full force of the law to target the criminal gangs targeting some of the most vulnerable people in society.

[Janet Daby (Lewisham East) (Lab)]

I recently spoke to somebody who works for Jobcentre Plus, who said they felt that universal credit was not designed to support people and that the five-week delay was an example of that. She said that people were turning instead to prostitution and crime to top up their money. In the light of this recent fraud, it is time the Government abolished the five-week wait.

[Justin Tomlinson]

When we talk to work coaches up and down the country, they tell us that for the first time in generations they feel empowered to deliver a personalised and tailored level of support that treats everybody as an individual. It is an integral part of how we are delivering record employment and doing everything possible to reduce the amount of unclaimed benefits. Under legacy benefits, £2.4 billion a year was being left unclaimed, which for 700,000 of the most vulnerable—[Interruption.] Some hon. Members are laughing, but this £2.4 billion amounts to £280 per month on average for some of the most vulnerable in society. By delivering through universal credit we can get support to the people who need it.

Department for Work and Pensions: Members’ Representations

Debate between Justin Tomlinson and Janet Daby

Wednesday 16th January 2019 Westminster Hall

[Justin Tomlinson]

As the hon. Lady said, that is to do with change of circumstances. The transitional arrangements were put in place for those who were transferring as part of natural migration, and we have, rightly, confirmed that that number will be ring-fenced to just 10,000 this year, so we can have a real deep dive to look at the levels of support that are needed. I will come back to that in a moment.

On the wider point about why transitional arrangements were not put in, that is because it was recognised that there would be a change of circumstances. We are seeing that a lot of people benefit, and some go the other way, but overall we are now spending an additional £2 billion on the current benefits compared with the legacy benefits, before the extra money goes in. That is more money going to the people who need that help.

Let me turn to points where I think there is agreement. We talk about office casework. We all have busy offices and have to prioritise casework and supporting our constituencies. I am very proud to have been rated third out of 650 on theyworkforyou.com on helping constituents. I absolutely understand the importance of casework. One of my staff specialises in this area, has visited the jobcentre with me and talked to the partnership manager. We all have a partnership manager, who is the point of contact for escalating cases.

I know the hon. Member for Edmonton was due to visit the jobcentre in December 2017, and that that visit was cancelled. I encourage her and her staff to take part in such a visit. It is really important, and they are there to help. Where we have specific cases that do not seem right, there is an ability to escalate; MPs can talk to the senior people in the respective jobcentres and they can help take that forward.

I have a lot of sympathy with the point about digital by default. The principle was to mirror the world of work, because most workplaces now expect staff to have a reasonable level of digital engagement. However, that is not the case for all people. Not all people on universal credit will end up in work—even if that is their ultimate aim, not everybody is going to, and not everybody will do that overnight. We need to improve communication in order to advise about alternatives; claimants can access support via the telephone, face to face, or through home visits. We need to do better at promoting that and it is certainly something that I will continue to push on.

We also need to look at the issue of consent. One of the complications of the General Data Protection Regulation is that we now need implicit consent. I regularly meet stakeholders, particularly housing associations and local authorities, who say, “We represent many of your vulnerable claimants, and we want to help. We have the resource to help, and we have teams, but unless we know that one of the people that we are working with is about to be migrated or has come on to universal credit or is accessing an advance payment, how can we help?” We have got to find a way, and I think that should be done in the same way as with advance payments—through making asking for implicit consent an automatic part of the initial interview, in order to get those support organisations working with claimants. There is a resource there that wants to support claimants and we should be doing everything we can to match them up.

We made a significant announcement on putting citizens’ advice into every single jobcentre throughout the country. It will be an independent organisation, and we will cover the costs. That will start in April, and I welcome it. As part of the test-and-learn with the 10,000, I want to look closely at exactly how much time is available to vulnerable claimants. Is it enough or are there other things that could be done? I think we should look very carefully at that.

[Janet Daby]

Advance payments still take five days. Does the Minister agree that that is just too long? What are people expected to do during that period?

[Justin Tomlinson]

Actually, if somebody is in particular hardship, they can get access to money within a couple of hours, so that is an option. I am not sure how well that has been communicated, but that rule is in place for those who genuinely need it.

We should continue to work with stakeholders. I am very receptive to meeting stakeholders. Throughout the week I meet different groups that will often come and challenge the Government, and hold our feet to the coals. It is right for them to do that, because they are identifying issues. There are a number of cases where a stakeholder with particular expertise has then helped to rewrite and deliver our training. For example, on the very important issue of domestic abuse, I have been working very closely with Women’s Aid, Refuge and Mankind. They went over all the training documents and sat through a typical claimant’s experience to identify whether things are in place. We are looking to bring further improvements based on their expertise.

Equalities Legislation: Guide Dogs

Debate between Justin Tomlinson and Janet Daby

Wednesday 5th September 2018 Westminster Hall

[Justin Tomlinson]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that point, which goes to the heart of some of the points raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Cheltenham. The onus should not be on the individual to go through complex and difficult legal channels; perhaps that should be a given and should be enforced—I will cover that point later in my speech.

It is more than 20 years since Parliament first built on the Disability Discrimination Act 1995 by introducing a duty on employers and service providers to make reasonable adjustments for employees and service users. That duty is now enshrined in the Equality Act 2010, and includes a requirement to provide or allow for auxiliary aids, including animals, for disabled people, to avoid their being put at a substantial disadvantage compared with people without disabilities. I very much recognise, however, the concerns raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Cheltenham and in interventions, and we must consider this issue.

Part of the potential solution, and one suggestion that has been put forward, is that we could, in effect, replicate the enforcement that takes place in the taxi trade. Such enforcement includes criminal sanctions in which the police will get involved, and a licensing team that will take such issues into consideration. I understand why my hon. Friend would like a more hard-hitting approach, because without that we would not be having this debate. The Government are absolutely committed to reviewing access for disabled people and, if necessary, to amending regulations to improve disabled access to licensed premises, parking and housing. We are receptive to the points that have been raised today.

There have been calls for the licensing of venues and premises by local authorities to include certain conditions that relate to the satisfaction of reasonable adjustment requirements, or for repeat offenders who have refused entry to people with assistance dogs on more than one occasion to have to change their ways to renew their licence. I believe the Home Office considers that there may be some challenges to doing that, but it has committed to improving disabled people’s access to licensed premises as part of the alcohol strategy currently under review. That work will include understanding the scope of the challenges facing disabled people, and possible practical solutions. Everything that has been raised today will be fed into that, and I will ask my Home Office colleagues to meet my hon. Friend and talk through his proactive and very measured suggestions.

[Janet Daby]

On local authorities becoming more engaged and having more responsibilities, since 2010, Lewisham East has seen cuts to local government of £165 million, and we have halved the size of the council. Does the Minister agree that we need to invest in our local authorities and local government to fulfil duties such as the ones he mentions?

[Justin Tomlinson]

I strongly suggest that the hon. Lady’s local authority talks to that of my hon. Friend the Member for Angus (Kirstene Hair) about how it has been able to share best practice proactively. We can all learn lessons from that.

Part of the work of reviewing the alcohol strategy will involve engagement with the Office for Disability Issues, bringing in its expertise and network of support from various disability charities to scope out the work and understand how best to engage formally with disabled people’s organisations and other representative groups. I am very encouraged by the Government’s move on that important issue. We also welcome the current inquiry by the Women and Equalities Committee into enforcement of the Equality Act 2010. That is timely, as it links into our commitment to improve and strengthen the enforcement of equality laws, so that businesses that deny people a service are properly investigated and rightly held to account. In conclusion, this has been a constructive, helpful, timely and measured debate, and all suggestions made will be filtered through. It is a priority for this Government to improve the situation, and I thank all hon. Members for their support in this vital area.

Question put and agreed to.