European Parliament Elections Bill
Jonathan Evans Excerpts(9 years, 4 months ago)
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Jonathan Evans (Cardiff North) (Con)
It is a great pleasure to rise to support my hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch (Mr Chope) on the introduction of this Bill. He rightly informs the House that the Conservative party has historically been in favour of open list elections to the European Parliament. Of course, we used to have individual first-past-the-post elections until 1999, but in the run-up to the introduction of proportional representation in the European Parliament elections in 1999 the House had to give its attention to what form of elections should be undertaken. One requirement we had to take into account was that for proportional representation itself.
Although this House has generally set its face against change in favour of proportional representation, let me clearly declare my hand: I have always been a strong supporter of proportional representation. Being a Member of Parliament who serves the Conservative cause in Wales, I know that there would have been significantly more such Conservative MPs in this House over the years had we had a proportional system rather than the first-past-the-post system. The Conservative party has generally had the support of about 25% of the Welsh electorate—on occasion, it has increased to about 33%—yet in two general elections we ended up with no Welsh Members, notwithstanding the fact that one fifth of the electorate voted for our party. That has its impact on the way in which people look at the provenance of a political party.
The Conservatives have suffered from that in Wales and, in fairness, the Labour party has suffered in vast swathes of England from exactly the same phenomenon. I therefore make no apology for the fact that when proportional representation was introduced, I was very much in favour of it. When I was subsequently selected as the lead candidate for Wales in the European elections in 1999, I was in the happy situation of saying that I had no embarrassment about topping the list in an election on a proportional basis, given all the support I had publicly given to that change.
What I found to be absolutely unacceptable, however, was that the choice by my party members to put me at the head of the list meant that every vote cast in the Conservative cause was a vote for me to be a Member of the European Parliament. I say that notwithstanding the fact that, perhaps slightly differently from my hon. Friends the Members for Christchurch and for Gainsborough (Sir Edward Leigh), I have always been an enthusiastic supporter of British membership of the European Parliament. I do not claim for a moment, however, that all the party members in Wales shared my view. They selected me to head their list, but they have a range of views and undoubtedly some among the electorate would have found it more acceptable to cast a vote for a Conservative who shared their more cynical views about our European engagement. That was not permitted because of legislation passed immediately before the elections in 1999—in 1998, I believe.
At that time, the Conservative party argued strongly against that legislation, taking the battle up to the other place to hold it off, in order to ensure that we had an open list system. Clearly an open list system is thoroughly more democratic, so one has to wonder why we have a closed list system. I must tell hon. Members that the reason goes back to an advertisement published in The Guardian at the time of the debate on the scrapping of clause IV—its removal was led by the former Prime Minister, Tony Blair. The advertisement was a direct challenge to his authority and it was signed by 10 Labour MEPs. After the introduction of the closed list system, all 10 were purged from the European Parliament by the Labour party in subsequent selections, so we can begin to understand why we ended up with legislation that is anti-democratic: it was an opportunity to control what happened in Strasbourg and to control the choices voters would be permitted to make. Our party rightly opposed that, but, bearing in mind the immediacy of the election in 1999, there had to come a time when a system had to be agreed and eventually the Conservative party’s opposition was withdrawn so that we could have a system we could work with. It is a matter of great disappointment that in the intervening period no effort has been made to change the system.
My hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch is not trying to reinvent the wheel here, because eight other countries in Europe operate an open list system—I do not know how welcome that news will be to him. Denmark, Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Austria, Belgium, Finland and Sweden all have variants of open list systems. Those countries all allow their voters to make a selection from among individual candidates who may well all be from the same party, if they wish to support that party in the election.
Only five countries have a closed system. During my time in the European Parliament I found the French system to be the most pernicious, and it is therefore disappointing that in certain aspects we follow that example. At least we can say that we have a regional closed list system. France has a national closed list system, which means that the votes for the respective parties are counted across the republic and the seats allocated thereafter, but not to the people who stood in those elections—they are allocated to the parties. Hon. Members who have visited France during European elections may recall seeing photographs of the main party leaders, because their names appear at the head of the European list, even though there is no prospect whatsoever of their accepting a seat in the European Parliament. What happens thereafter is that that person’s name is expunged and the seat allocation is decided by the parties in the weeks following the election. For this House, we are used to seeing the television coverage of debates that take place during the election campaign and on polling night a declaration is made as to who has been elected as the Member of Parliament. In France’s European elections we do not know probably for two or three weeks after the election who will be serving in the European Parliament, because that decision has not been made by that stage by the leadership of the individual parties.
We can see that the closed list system concentrates power at the top of the political party. That is why it was introduced by Tony Blair, and it is why the Conservatives rightly opposed it back in 1998. My hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch began his remarks by saying that he wanted to make a constructive contribution to the formulation of the Conservative party’s next general election manifesto, which is why I very much hope the Minister will accept that all the arguments are in favour of the Bill and that it will make progress—if not perhaps in this Parliament, in the next one.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education (Mr Sam Gyimah)
I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch (Mr Chope) for bringing the issue of the voting system for European parliamentary elections before the House. He spoke with characteristic force and clarity, although with brevity on this occasion. He made his point clearly that this is a Bill that he wants to be considered in the next Conservative manifesto. I am sure that the powers that be will have noted that.
Clearly, the voting system that we use to elect our representatives is a matter of great importance and will have a significant impact on our democracy and the relationship between the public and those elected to serve them. I will try to set out the Government’s position. The Government take such matters seriously and welcome debate and discussion on proposals for changes that seek to enhance the democratic process. I therefore thank all Members for the debate so far. It is something on which there is a degree of consensus.
The voting system in use for European parliamentary elections has been debated at some length in both Houses of Parliament. Clearly, there is a range of views on the merits of the closed list voting system. It is fair to say that the closed list system is simple for electors, and it ensures that across a region seats are allocated in proportion to the votes cast.
However, I am conscious that there has been dissatisfaction with the closed list system both inside and outside Parliament and the debate today has highlighted that concern. Criticism has centred on the system being “closed”. The parties solely determine the order in which candidates are awarded the seats that they achieve. It is argued that that puts too much power in the hands of the parties and results in MEPs who are remote from the electorate. All those arguments are very strong indeed. We recognise that introducing an open list system might help to address the issue of MEPs being seen as distant from electors, because it will bring candidates closer to electors. However, the open list system is not currently used in any statutory elections in the UK.
Introducing an open list voting system at European parliamentary elections in Britain would require both primary and secondary legislation. Realistically, in terms of timing, it is not feasible at this late stage in the current Parliament to make the necessary legislative changes. In addition, there will be a number of practical and logistical implications that would need to be considered in changing the voting system for European elections.
Political parties, candidates, electoral administrators and electors would all need to receive guidance and instruction in the workings of the new voting system. This would be a novel and potentially complex system for electors, but the problems are surmountable. There will obviously be the issue of redesigning the ballot paper, which would be significantly different under an open list system.
Jonathan Evans
Looking around the Chamber, I think that I am the only person here to have stood in a European election and I have done so on two occasions. Although there is a box on the ballot form by which one can vote for a party, where the names are listed it has been the practice on a number of occasions for people to choose to put the cross alongside the name of the candidate rather than in the box for the party. Generally, if it appears in the area where the party has its candidates’ names, it is counted as in favour of that party. That is another indication that my hon. Friend’s point is surmountable.
Mr Gyimah
My hon. Friend, as he says, has great experience of standing for election. He makes the point quite clearly about how the ballot paper would need to be redesigned. As I said, I believe the problems are surmountable, but it is worth putting on the record that moving from the current system to an open list system would mean that there would be some practical difficulties to surmount. Moving to an open list system would also raise cost issues, and given the Government’s central role in funding European elections, we would wish to consider it very carefully.
All that having been said, the Government can understand why my hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch has tabled the Bill. The timing is an issue and practical implications need to be considered, but the subject should seriously be borne in mind in the next set of election manifestoes. With that in mind, I recommend the Bill to the House.
EU-US Trade and Investment Agreement
Jonathan Evans Excerpts(10 years, 10 months ago)
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Jonathan Evans (Cardiff North) (Con)
It is a great privilege to follow the hon. Member for West Bromwich West (Mr Bailey), and I agree with much of what he had to say. Let me take the opportunity to congratulate the right hon. Member for Wentworth and Dearne (John Healey) and my hon. Friend the Member for Aberconwy (Guto Bebb), who played such an important part in creating the new all-party group, whose establishment is both timely and necessary if we are to realise some of the prizes that should flow from a new transatlantic trade deal. Let me make it clear, bearing in mind some of the speeches we have heard, that I regard myself as an old-fashioned Tory. I believe in free trade, and I think it crucial for parliamentarians here in the UK and throughout Europe to be well aware and fully informed of all the arguments and implications at the very earliest opportunity.
Mr Cash
It is inevitable. When my hon. Friend referred to himself as an old-fashioned Tory, I was bound to reflect on the fact that nobody was much more protectionist than Disraeli and that nobody was more in favour of free trade than John Bright and Richard Cobden, who were of course Liberals.
Jonathan Evans
I cannot help thinking that we are missing my hon. Friend the Member for North East Somerset (Jacob Rees-Mogg). I had thought that we were likely to get on to the corn laws at some stage of this debate, but let us move that issue to one side.
The negotiations will be led by the European Commission, which is inevitable as we currently stand, and the White House. Legislators in Europe, however, will in many instances have the final say on whatever emerges from these negotiations, so I view early engagement with parliamentarians as of real importance. I also want to welcome the willingness of Ministers—we have already seen it from my noble Friend Lord Green and my right hon. and learned Friend the Minister without Portfolio—fully to engage with us. I welcome, too, the commitment of President Obama to place the delivery of this new trade partnership as a key objective of his final term, but it is important to understand that the aim of creating a truly free transatlantic market is not a recent phenomenon.
As colleagues may know, after an all too short period of service in this House during John Major’s premiership, I served as a Member of the European Parliament, leading the Conservative delegation, and I was later elected by the European Parliament as the president of its relations with the US Congress. I took up that post eight years ago, and from then on it was clear to me that many legislators on both sides of the Atlantic had already devoted decades of effort to bringing about much closer economic co-operation between the United States and Europe. I pay particular tribute to two British MEPs who will leave the European Parliament next year for the unswerving commitment that they have shown to the promotion of that trade partnership, and to the achievement of a truly free transatlantic market.
My Conservative colleague James Elles, who served six terms in the European Parliament, was the founder of the Transatlantic Policy Network, a forum for debate between Atlanticist legislators which I believe has played an important role in bringing us to where we are today. One former US chairman of the TPN is Chuck Hagel, who now serves at the heart of the US Administration as Defence Secretary. There is no doubt that many other members of the Obama Administration share the objectives that have been promoted by the TPN.
Another former TPN chairman who will leave the European Parliament next year is the Labour MEP for the South East, Peter Skinner. It may be strange to hear it said from these Benches, but I am pleased to say that Peter is one of the best-regarded parliamentarians in Brussels. We worked very closely together in the Economic and Monetary Affairs Committee of the Parliament, and also later when I served as chair of the advisory board of the Transatlantic Economic Council, set up by Chancellor Merkel and President Bush in 2007. I well recall encouraging Peter to join me in establishing better links with our US friends, words that he took quite literally—I mention this particularly in the context of an earlier intervention—when he met his future wife Kimberley, a Penn State republican, during one of our parliamentary visits.
Much of the background research on the massive opportunities for economic growth to be gained from an EU-US an agreement has been done by the Centre for Transatlantic Relations at Johns Hopkins university in Washington. Daniel S. Hamilton and Joseph P. Quinlan from the university produce an annual report on the transatlantic economy. I know that my hon. Friend the Member for Skipton and Ripon (Julian Smith) has seen that document, which surveys jobs and trade and investment between the US and Europe, and whose details make a powerful case for closer transatlantic co-operation. I shall ensure that my hon. Friend the Member for Stone (Mr Cash) receives a copy, because I think it crucially important for him to see it.
The Prime Minister has said that a successful transatlantic agreement could be the biggest trade deal in history. I have heard some cynical observations about the figures, but much of the analysis shows that not only will the agreement constitute a gain for Europe and for the United States, but there will be gains elsewhere as a result of the growth in the world economy that will follow.
No one doubts the challenge that we face in achieving agreement. As may have become evident during today’s debate, we sometimes hear protectionist voices, which can be at their most seductive during times of austerity. I know that comments have been made about the “Buy America” legislation which exists in no fewer than 21 states. The latest state to pass such legislation is Maryland, whose legislators seem to be unaware that some 70,000 people in the state work directly for European companies, that $13 billion from Europe is invested in Maryland annually, and that every year $3 billion worth of goods are exported from Maryland to Europe. Immediately after signing the new “Buy America” law, the Maryland state governor flew to the Paris air show to urge Europeans to buy defence products made—believe it or not—in Maryland. You couldn’t make it up.
Narrow protectionism does not protect jobs in Maryland or anywhere else in the United States, and it does not do so in this country either. Reference has been made to the effectiveness of laws of that kind. I think it worth observing that Government procurement agreements made by the United States at the World Trade Organisation grant EU countries full reciprocity with Maryland providers and manufacturers. I believe that, in this instance, “Buy America” laws are not just wrong-headed but a blatant deception of US and Maryland voters. Let me add that my warning against protectionism is just as appropriate in the case of the French voices that successfully compelled the European Commission to remove audio-visual services from the scope of the negotiation.
Finally, let me say a little about the financial ties between Europe and the United States. At this point I should draw the House’s attention to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests, although my own interests will not be affected in any way by this particular deal. Those financial ties represent a market share of between 66% and 86% of global financial sectors, which render this deal crucially important to the United States, and to us here in the United Kingdom. Delivering the deal by 2014 requires a tight timetable, but I urge Ministers to continue to engage with us as we proceed with our work.
Guto Bebb (Aberconwy) (Con)
It is a pleasure to contribute to this debate, and I congratulate the right hon. Member for Wentworth and Dearne (John Healey) on securing it through the Backbench Business Committee. I am also very pleased to be involved with the all-party group on European Union-United States trade and investment, because it is important that we debate this issue sooner rather than later, as the House should take responsibility for what is potentially a very important treaty.
My hon. Friend the Member for Stone (Mr Cash) raised the important issue of scrutiny. That starts by having a debate on the Floor of the House in which Members can highlight important issues of concern. We have already heard a great variety of comments, which shows this House is making an important contribution to the scrutiny of this issue.
The debate has also been memorable because it marks the first time I have ever heard my hon. Friend the Member for Skipton and Ripon (Julian Smith) described as a member of the Tea party. It is a shock that that description should be applied to him because if I were asked to identify the Conservative Member who would be least likely to be a member of the Tea party it would be him. I think the comment was made in jest, however.
There are issues to be discussed in respect of this trade and investment deal between the EU and the US. I was intrigued by the comment of my hon. Friend the Member for Harwich and North Essex (Mr Jenkin) that small countries could negotiate such deals better than the EU. That would be worthy of discussion, and I am sure the all-party group would be delighted if my hon. Friend were willing to contribute to our discussion by debating that issue.
Jonathan Evans
Specifically on that point, does my hon. Friend think it might be useful to invite the minister-counsellor from the US embassy in London, who has already made it clear that the concept of some separate UK-US trade deal is a non-starter?
Guto Bebb
That comment has indeed been made, and the all-party group could have a good debate on these issues. I am happy to have this argument. That is why we wanted to establish the all-party group and to have this debate. We need to ensure all the views in this House are heard.
I am a believer in free trade as I think it is beneficial. The concerns raised by some Members on the Government Benches are not about free trade, however: they are about whether the agreements would enhance free trade. That is a reasonable concern to have, and it needs to be scrutinised by this House. If we are to negotiate a free trade agreement between the EU and the US, we need to make sure it is a genuine free trade agreement.
The main town in my constituency is Llandudno, and the largest secondary school in Llandudno is Ysgol John Bright, which is named after an individual who believed strongly in free trade. To have concerns about whether this agreement would enhance free trade is not to oppose the treaty; it is more about making sure that what we create will benefit not just the economy of the UK, but the global economy. I say that because I agree that a genuine free trade agreement between the EU and the US will not just have an impact on the states in Europe and the United States; it will have a global impact as well. These issues are worth discussing, therefore, and that is why it is important that we have this debate at this point in time.
I have concerns about the time scale of two years for this agreement. I had the good fortune last night to be in discussions with one of the Canadian Prime Minister’s advisers, because one concern that must be expressed is that for a long period—certainly since I have been elected to this place—we have been involved in discussions between the EU and Canada in an attempt to reach a satisfactory trade agreement between those two trading blocs. Unfortunately, as yet, despite promises on numerous occasions that we were very close to an agreement, no agreement has been reached. We are being told by some individuals involved on this side of the pond that the issues are all to do with concerns about Canadian farmers and agriculture, yet when I was discussing this issue last night with that representative of the Canadian Prime Minister the concerns were all about the demands of the EU in terms of our agriculture. This two-year time frame presents a real challenge for us, therefore. If an agreement cannot be secured after so much time between the EU and Canada, there is a real question about whether the EU-US agreement can be secured within two years.
The two-year time frame should be applauded for its ambition, however. We should go into all negotiations with an ambitious timetable, but we also need to be realistic and acknowledge that that agreement with Canada is not yet in place. It would be a great achievement if we could have that agreement in place to show the way forward for a genuine free trade agreement between the EU and the US.
John Hemming (Birmingham, Yardley) (LD)
First, I refer the House to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests. I do not think that I have any relevant financial interests on this occasion. I am a member of a copyright society, and I have traded with America in the past, but I do not think I have a direct financial interest; obviously, my constituents have a substantial financial interest in the subject, because I am the Member of Parliament for Birmingham, Yardley, and although there are no Jaguar Land Rover plants in the constituency, it is next to the JLR plants in Solihull and Castle Bromwich. An agreement could mean 26% more exports of vehicles, which would reduce yet further unemployment in my constituency, and that is obviously something that I would like.
The UK and the US were, in many ways, the first countries to promote and extend free trade worldwide, as we see it today. That vision has been furthered by our membership of the EU, and we have been a driving force in extending and widening the free market. There have been set-backs, both in the UK and the US. Both countries have toyed with protectionism—that is even going on at the moment—often with negative effect. More recently, the EU and the US have had periods of fracture. The dispute over the two biggest aircraft manufacturers in the world, Boeing and Airbus, at the World Trade Organisation was not good. The US obligations to scan shipping containers and the “Buy America” provisions have also served to undermine trade. The EU emissions trading scheme for airlines was seen as unilateral by international partners, despite decades of inaction on the issue.
Bars and grills have an exception from music licensing rules in the US; that exception exempts 70% of bars and restaurants and almost half of shops from having to pay copyright royalties, and that remains a key outstanding issue. That exemption was found incompatible with the agreement on trade-related aspects of intellectual property rights, yet it remains in force, and no compensation, however minimal, has been made available to European and British artists since 2004. Interestingly, people are critical of China for not abiding by intellectual property law, but the US has an issue in that regard as well.
Jonathan Evans
That is sometimes called the music case. It is interesting; the US Government did pay some compensation on behalf of those people who are breaching the law, but they have not paid it since, so there is a clear precedent for their recognising that they are in the wrong.
John Hemming
Yes; I think $3.3 million was paid before 2004, which is why I said “since 2004”. The US Government recognise that there is an issue, but the problem continues none the less. I think that the US has been critical of China, but it should sort out its own issues as well.
I am sure that the House will echo my call for American Congress to uphold its obligations under existing international trade laws, respect intellectual property and use this process to salve wounds. A disregard for intellectual property only encourages others to have a similar disregard. It would be quite wrong for our laws to ignore American intellectual property, and it is about time the United States returned our courtesy.
Despite those set-backs, this new free trade agreement is to be strongly welcomed as a once-in-a-generation opportunity for the UK that will bring benefits of around £10 billion a year to our economy, help to build a stronger economy, and create many much-needed jobs. It is proof that our participation in the European Union does not restrict us from trading with the rest of the world.
Although the EU and US combined account for more than half of the world economy, our agreements with Korea have seen EU exports to Korea go up by 16.2%. For the first time in 15 years, we have a trade surplus with Korea, and UK exports to Brazil, India, China, Russia and South Africa have jumped from £12.7 billion in 2007 to £27.1 billion last year.
Being a member of the largest free trade area in the world creates jobs and opportunities for British industry around the world, and our relentless drive to widen and deepen the single market has created prosperity for the many, not the few. We simply get a better deal when we work with the world’s trade superpower—the EU—than when we act alone, which is why we should work with our allies to concentrate on reform and ensure that the European budget spends more on boosting jobs, research, development and infrastructure, as we did with the multi-annual settlement up to 2020.
The coalition Government are to be commended for ensuring that there is an overall cut in the budget and an increase in job-boosting measures. We need these negotiations fast-tracked, and I hope that Her Majesty’s Government are able to impress both on our allies in the US and our European partners the need to enter these negotiations in a spirit of can-do—with the “single tank of gas” approach mentioned earlier.
We have seen the greatest slow-down in world growth since the 1930s depression, and stalled starts must not be tolerated. My party, the Liberal Democrats, wants to see a relentless focus on jobs and growth. I personally do not believe that we can delay the discussion with the electorate on our role in the European Union, but I am unashamed to make the case for working with Europe to boost our economy.
Paul Blomfield
I thought the debate a couple of weeks ago was more about resolving internal differences in the Conservative party than a wider concern for the views of British people.
What an irony it is that too many Government Members want to lead us out of Europe, just at the moment that the already substantial benefits from our membership of the EU are set to become even better. I might even feel sorry for the Prime Minister if these problems were not of his own making. He knows that our future lies in Europe, just as our past always has done, and he wants this country to be at the heart of the European Union and his party to stop banging on about Europe. He knows the importance of this trade deal, but he made an early mistake back in 2005 when, lagging behind in the leadership contest for his party, he threw red meat to Conservative Members who would take us out of the EU with a promise to leave the European People’s party. He was warned by his Conservative allies in Europe—
Jonathan Evans
Perhaps I should point out to the hon. Gentleman that I was leader of the Conservatives in the European Parliament at that time, and the Conservative party was never in the European People’s party at any time.
Paul Blomfield
The Conservative party’s alliances when the hon. Gentleman was in the European Parliament were better than those it has made subsequently.