Channel 4: Privatisation
Debate between John Whittingdale and Peter Bottomley(3 years, 4 months ago)
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The Minister for Media and Data (Mr John Whittingdale)
I thank you, Ms Fovargue, and Mr Deputy Speaker, for presiding over our debate. Neither of you expected to be in this position today, so we appreciate your giving up the time to join us. I also thank the hon. Member for Wallasey (Dame Angela Eagle) for securing this debate. As she says, it is a very important subject, so I am glad that the House has an opportunity to debate it.
However, I do not think a single speaker has talked about the revolution taking place in television at the moment. Every speech has been backward looking. Each one has been a list of admittedly terrific programming over the past 40 years, but there has been no looking forward and no reference to what is happening to television viewing and how the landscape is changing. Linear viewing is in rapid decline. Young people are no longer looking at scheduled programmes on the traditional broadcast channels. The competition for eyeballs, which comes from streaming services, a new one of which joins the market almost every few months, is completely changing. Therefore, what we intend and wish to do is look forward. Yes, Channel 4 has a terrific record and is doing well at the moment, but it is the Government’s job to ensure that Channel 4 has a viable future going forward—not this year or next, but in 10 years. That is the purpose of the consultation.
Sir Peter Bottomley
I think the Minister can be assured that each Member present has read the consultation document. We know that the Government say the structure of broadcasting has changed. We have seen that All 4 has 41%, which is only a little lower than Netflix. Channel 4 is doing all those things. At every paragraph, the Government say, “Change the ownership, and we’ll do xyz.” The only example given by the Government is Royal Mail, looking backwards to 2013. The Minister is right in thinking that we understand what he is going to say, because we have read his document. We are challenging the idea that a new owner is necessary.
Mr Whittingdale
I will come to that. I am sure my hon. Friend has read the consultation document, and it is extraordinary that the arguments, which I believe are strong, have not actually been addressed by any speaker so far.
BBC: Dyson Report
Debate between John Whittingdale and Peter Bottomley(3 years, 6 months ago)
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Mr Whittingdale
I thank the hon. Lady, and I agree with very much—indeed, almost everything—she said. On the governance of the BBC, as I said earlier, fundamental changes were made a few years ago, which we believe would have meant that somebody who wished to blow the whistle in the way that took place would have been listened to, and they would have had recourse to Ofcom if they were dissatisfied with the BBC. We must be absolutely sure that the new governance arrangements work properly, and there may well be need for further editorial oversight. That is what the BBC’s review is designed to reveal. However, I share her view about the importance of trust in the BBC. The mid-term review will be carefully conducted; we will not rush into any changes. Finally, I can confirm to the hon. Lady that the question of funding of the BBC is a separate one and that the licence fee—while it will be subject to debate, I have no doubt, in the coming years—is in place until the end of this charter in 2027.
Sir Peter Bottomley (Worthing West) (Con)
May I say to my right hon. Friend that he acted properly, in 2015, when he appointed Sir David Clementi to review the BBC? The Government were right to accept Sir David Clementi’s recommendations, which came only a few months later, putting right the absurd arrangements made in 2007 that left the BBC without a chair and led to all kinds of confusion.
May I also say to my right hon. Friend that the BBC is a beacon? Things did go wrong—by Martin Bashir, the double reviewing of what he had done and in his further reappointment back to the BBC; that is incontrovertible. But what should also be clear to the Government is that if we start attacking the BBC, we will throw out much more than we have, and if the choice is between the state broadcasting corporation—the BBC—or the United States, people in this country would rightly choose the BBC.
Mr Whittingdale
I must thank my hon. Friend for his words. He is absolutely right that the previous governance arrangements were deeply flawed, and Sir David Clementi, who conducted the review and then went on to become chair of the BBC, put in place a much stronger governance system, with both a stronger internal management board and external oversight, and we do believe that that would have been much more effective if it had been in place when some of the events we are debating took place. I also absolutely agree with my hon. Friend about the importance of the BBC. We have just heard a statement from my right hon Friend the Foreign Secretary about a country where public service broadcasting is not free, fair or independent. The BBC is a beacon of those things, and we are determined to strengthen it and to restore trust in it across the world.
BBC
Debate between John Whittingdale and Peter Bottomley(4 years, 4 months ago)
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Mr Whittingdale
I very much agree with my hon. Friend on that. The BBC’s obligation to be objective and impartial is absolutely at the core of its public purpose—it is written into its public purposes. There are doubts on this, and I draw her attention to a good article in The Sunday Times by Roger Mosey, the former head of BBC news gathering, in which he echoed a lot of the concerns she is expressing.
Sir Peter Bottomley (Worthing West) (Con) [V]
May I remind the Minister that the BBC has chosen the option that he put forward as a Back Bencher on 11 June 2019, at columns 552-53 of Hansard, when he pointed out that the cost of the concession was rising to £1 billion and that the BBC would probably have to do what it is now proposing?
The House has discussed the best way of dealing with the problem. My version of the way forward is to say that the value of the licence fee should be taken into account in the tax allowance so that pensioners who do not pay tax get the full benefit, those on the standard rate get some benefit and those on the higher rate get much less benefit. I hope he will agree on that, but will he please look at it?
Mr Whittingdale
I do remember my comments, and I never suggested that the BBC would not be faced with a very difficult decision, because the cost of maintaining the exemption is huge and would go on rising. My hon. Friend makes an interesting suggestion. We are coming up to a licence fee settlement in which we will be looking at all these questions, and I am certainly happy to consider the point he has made.
BBC
Debate between John Whittingdale and Peter Bottomley
Mr Whittingdale
I hugely appreciate the right hon. Gentleman’s remarks. He has an extremely strong track record of campaigning in this area, and for him to welcome our proposals in this way is extremely encouraging. I also agree that there is a lot more work to do. It will be for the BBC to make decisions on the allocation of budgets and on how it goes about delivering on the new, explicit requirement that has been set out. I am sure that the right hon. Gentleman will continue to talk to the BBC about that, as will we.
Sir Peter Bottomley (Worthing West) (Con)
The point about diversity, which I support, is that its target should be inclusiveness so that people can be drawn together.
On page 74 of the White Paper, my right hon. Friend mentions digital radio. If he comes down from London to Worthing, by bus or any other form of road transport, and drives along the coast in Worthing, he will find enormous gaps in the digital radio coverage. Will he please ensure that we do not exclude those who listen to the radio on the move?
I want to make three detailed points about the wording of the White Paper. On page 98, he states:
“The government is clear that the licence fee is a tax”.
At some stage, I would like to hear an explanation of why it is seen as a tax rather than a fee that is separate from taxation.
On page 102, he talks about the “popularity of subscription services”. It would be more accurate to talk about the incidence of those services rather than their popularity. Most people do not like paying, but they feel that they are forced to do so because what they want to watch is on subscription.
In the glossary, the last entry is for a WOCC. Would he like to explain what the term “window of competitive culture”, or whatever it is, actually means?
Mr Whittingdale
I would be very happy to do so. On the issue of digital audio broadcasting, I fully recognise that there is still some way to go to achieve the coverage that will be necessary before we can consider switching off analogue. The ability to listen to DAB on the move in cars is one of the crucial factors that will influence our decision, and there is still more work to be done. However, we expect the BBC to continue to take a leading role in this regard. My hon. Friend asked some specific questions. It has long been recognised that the licence fee is essentially a tax, because it is a compulsory fee imposed by the Government and enforced by criminal sanction. It is recognised as a tax by the Office for Budget Responsibility and others on that basis.
I turn now to my hon. Friend’s specific question about what is known colloquially as the WOCC. The window of creative competition was put in place by the BBC. Under the existing arrangements, the independent production quota is 25% and then the WOCC accounts for another 25% chunk of content, which can be competed for by the independent production sector. The remaining 50% is reserved for the BBC’s in-house production. It is that 50% that we are removing, so, in essence, our proposal is to increase the WOCC to 75%.
White Paper on the BBC Charter
Debate between John Whittingdale and Peter BottomleyUrgent Questions are proposed each morning by backbench MPs, and up to two may be selected each day by the Speaker. Chosen Urgent Questions are announced 30 minutes before Parliament sits each day.
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Mr Whittingdale
I am concerned if those reports are circulating in Wales, but I hope there will be reassurance tomorrow. I was pleased to have the opportunity to visit S4C just a few weeks ago and I share the hon. Gentleman’s regard for its programming. He will be aware that we have announced that we will be reviewing S4C once we have completed the BBC charter review. That, too, will be with the aim of seeing how we can strengthen and sustain it.
Sir Peter Bottomley (Worthing West) (Con)
My hon. Friend the Member for Lichfield (Michael Fabricant) referred to his past. In 1957, when T S Eliot and Laurence Olivier formed the Third Programme Defence Society, I was a 12-year-old who put stamps on the communications. Trusting in the Government to bring forward a decent White Paper, I ask the Secretary of State to clarify when Channel 4 might come up for review.
Mr Whittingdale
My hon. Friend is right that a number of issues are on our agenda. The BBC’s charter was the first and most important priority, not least because it runs out at the end of the year. Channel 4 is an area that we are looking at again to establish whether it can be strengthened in the delivery of its public service remit. I am keen to make public our conclusions as soon as possible.
Concessionary Television Licences
Debate between John Whittingdale and Peter Bottomley
Mr Whittingdale
The BBC has a good record of achieving efficiency savings, and I am confident that that will continue over the coming years. Taking on the cost of providing free TV licences is being phased in and will not start until 2018. With regard to S4C, I think that it is reasonable to expect it to make the same kinds of efficiency savings that the Government are looking for the BBC to make.
Sir Peter Bottomley (Worthing West) (Con)
My right hon. Friend has calmed down the atmosphere surrounding this, and we look forward to a deal that the BBC as well as this House can live with. It is important that the BBC should be able to go on exploiting and introducing new technology as well as keeping old services going. Is the age of 75 fixed forever? If it can be changed, will it be changed by proposals from the BBC or by this House?
Mr Whittingdale
The age of 75 is fixed for the duration of this Parliament, because that was a pledge in the Conservative manifesto. As I have indicated, after that the BBC will take responsibility for the policy, so it may examine a number of options.