Media Bill

Debate between John Whittingdale and Angus Brendan MacNeil

2nd reading
Tuesday 21st November 2023 Commons Chamber

[Sir John Whittingdale]

As I say, in a large number of cases the appropriate position would be a significant one, but we think there needs to be a degree of flexibility to take account of regional differences, and therefore that Ofcom is perhaps better placed to look at each individual example and decide the appropriate level.

I come to Channel 4, which has featured a lot in the course of the debate. Channel 4, set up by a Conservative Government, has played an extremely valuable role in the broadcasting landscape. I think it was my hon. Friend the Member for Folkestone and Hythe who rightly said that when Channel 4 was created, the independent production sector did not really exist at all. The indie sector was created by Channel 4 and the fact that Channel 4, as a broadcaster, commissioned all its content from the indie sector.

As a result, we now have one of the most successful independent production sectors in the world, which to some extent does not now need the support of Channel 4; it is making content for all the broadcasters, in this country and beyond. Nevertheless, it is the Government’s decision that, to provide Channel 4 with a more sustainable revenue base moving forward, we should allow it to acquire an in-house production capacity if it so chooses. We talked to the independent production sector at length and felt it was appropriate that in those circumstances we should increase the independent production quota to 35%, in order to provide some underpinning of the independent production sector. We hope that that will ensure the continued sustainability of the independent production sector at the same time as giving a Channel 4 an additional ability to diversify its sources of revenue.

There have been a number of contributions from north of the border during this debate, particularly around Gaelic broadcasting. One measure in the Bill for the first time makes the provision of services in the minority languages across the United Kingdom part of the public service remit. That did not exist before. It is for Ofcom to decide an appropriate level of provision, but there is now a requirement that there should be such provision.

[Angus Brendan MacNeil]

I hear what the right hon. Gentleman is saying, but should there not be something a bit stronger and more stringent in the Bill than a decision by Ofcom further down the road, and should it not be written into law, as several Members have asked?

[Sir John Whittingdale]

Well, I would say to the hon. Gentleman that clause 1 makes clear that there should be a significant quantity of

“audiovisual content that is in, or mainly in, a recognised regional or minority language”.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sir John Whittingdale]

I share the right hon. Gentleman’s wish to see continuing provision both for the Welsh language and indeed for Gaelic. I would, however, draw a contrast. Some have suggested that there should be some kind of equity in the support given to the Welsh language and to Gaelic. Of course, S4C receives funding from the licence fee, but that is in recognition of the fact that there are nearly 1 million Welsh speakers in the United Kingdom. MG Alba gets some support from the Scottish Government, which is welcome, but there are approaching 100,000 people in Scotland who speak Gaelic, so there is a big contrast between the two.

[Angus Brendan MacNeil]

There is a reason there have been so few Gaelic speakers over the centuries: Acts of Parliament, from the Education (Scotland) Act 1872 onwards—and even before. The point is that we are looking for redress and hope, not for more of the same. I mean that in a good spirit; I hope it does not come across otherwise, because I know that the Minister is not that type of person. I am trying to communicate to him the urgency of the real need, expressed by a number of Members, for that kind of support.

[Sir John Whittingdale]

I am afraid that all I can say to the hon. Gentleman is that the Government recognise the importance of continuing support. We expect the BBC to continue providing a channel in Gaelic, in the form of BBC Alba, and we welcome the fact that MG Alba produces content through an arrangement with the BBC and with the support of the Scottish Government. We have now, for the first time, put into the public service remit the requirement to provide

“a sufficient quantity of audiovisual content”.

That is a significant step forward, even if it does not go quite as far as SNP Members would like.

The provisions covering radio have been rightly welcomed and described by my hon. Friend the Member for Warrington South (Andy Carter), who is an acknowledged expert in this area. We have worked closely with the radio sector, and I think that the audio review identified the need to ensure the protection of radio services as more and more people adopt smart speakers.

A number of hon. Members raised local television, of which the Government remain supportive. However, at the moment, local television is not available through apps, so including it in the provisions for prominence was not appropriate, but we will of course keep the situation under review, should it evolve in future. The Government are consulting on the future of local television.

My hon. Friend the Member for Penistone and Stocksbridge (Miriam Cates) raised a specific point about the regulation of video-on-demand streaming services. The Government completely share her wish to see adequate protection for children. Having sufficient protections in place will be part of the new requirements on the major streaming services. She is right to praise the BBFC. I have worked with the BBFC for many years, going right back to James Ferman, who for 25 years was its director. It is absolutely true that the BBFC is recognised as expert in this field. I very much welcome that a number of streamers have chosen to adopt the BBFC to carry out their age ratings, including Netflix and Amazon.

The Government’s objective, however, is to ensure that protection is in place, rather than necessarily to specify that it has to be done by the BBFC. It will be left to Ofcom to oversee that, and it already has a lot of experience in this area. It enforces the broadcasting code, which also requires age-appropriate broadcasting. As my hon. Friend rightly said, that was traditionally via the watershed, although that is now changing with the move to on-demand TV. Ofcom also undertakes other protections such as parental controls and so on, so it is not just age rating. I entirely share her view that the BBFC does an excellent job, and I hope that all services will consider using it when reaching decisions, but the Government are not at the point of wishing to mandate that at this time.

Local Newspapers

Debate between John Whittingdale and Angus Brendan MacNeil

Thursday 19th March 2015 Westminster Hall

[Mr John Whittingdale (Maldon) (Con)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) on obtaining this important debate. I thank him for his kind words about my chairmanship of the Select Committee.

This matter has caused the Committee considerable concern for quite a long time. We carried out an inquiry on the future of local and regional media in 2010 and were alarmed by the number of closures and job losses, of which there was a steady stream. At that time, there were 1,300 local and regional media titles. Claire Enders, of Enders Analysis, told us that she expected half of those to close within five years. It has not been quite as bad as that, but we are down to about 1,000 and the closures are continuing, as the hon. Gentleman said.

It is not just closures. We have seen steady reductions in the number of staff; the journalists are often young and low paid; there have been relocations away from high streets; and there has been a reduction in the number of photographers. What Nick Davies, in The Guardian, has called “churnalism” is becoming ever more obvious, with local newspapers taking press releases and reproducing them without any attempt to establish whether facts within them are correct, or whether there is an alternative.

Investigative reporting has also declined. The hon. Gentleman mentioned the Mid Staffordshire inquiry and investigation, which was a shining example of investigative reporting. We in the Committee heard from the journalist responsible for that. It is interesting to note that the Rotherham scandal was exposed not by the local paper, but by The Times, which allowed Andrew Norfolk, one of its journalists, to spend four years investigating that story. He rightly received commendation and awards at the Society of Editors press awards a few days ago. That was an extraordinary commitment to pursuing a story on the part of a national newspaper. It is possible that a local paper simply would not have the resources to do that.

In my area, as we have already heard to some extent from my hon. Friend the Member for Colchester (Sir Bob Russell), who is a distinguished former editor of my local newspaper, we have two local newspapers—both weeklies—the Maldon and Burnham Standard, which he mentioned, and the Essex Chronicle. Both do their best. The Maldon and Burnham Standard used to have an address on the High street, which my hon. Friend described, but is no longer there, having moved to Braintree. The Chronicle is now based in an industrial estate on the outskirts of Chelmsford. The Standard is still performing well. The editor tells me it has one of the highest year-on-year ABC sales figures and that its decline is around 1.8%, which is considerably better than many others. I am going to see the editor, Andrew Bennett, tomorrow, and his two young, extremely hard-working and excellent reporters, Nina Morgan and Ally Grainger.

When I was first elected, the Chronicle had a veteran local government editor called Kathleen Corby and the Maldon and Burnham Standard had a deputy editor, Geoff Percival, both of whom had been there for years and had a breadth of experience. I suspect that my hon. Friend remembers both of those characters. One problem for young journalists working at local newspapers is that there is no longer an upward career path, so it is difficult for them to get promoted to achieve higher earnings. The consequence is that they go into other areas, such as public relations or public affairs. It is understandable. However, that is a worrying development, because most journalists acquire their training on local newspapers. National newspapers, television channels and radio stations depend on local newspapers to train the journalists whom they will one day employ.

[Mr Angus Brendan MacNeil (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP)]

I apologise for not being here at the beginning of the debate. The hon. Gentleman is right. The Stornoway Gazette, in Lewis and the Hebrides, employs local people in the local community and provides a service that would be sorely missed if it were not there. There is not enough appreciation of what the local press is doing. What are the hon. Gentleman’s views on what we can do to support the local press more and ensure that we have a local press in years to come? There is a feeling that it will always be there because it has been there in the past. Local papers are under great pressures, as the hon. Gentleman has mentioned. What does he think could be done to support them?

[Mr Whittingdale]

The turnout in this debate reflects the concern felt throughout the United Kingdom, which is replicated in every community. I will answer the hon. Gentleman’s question in a moment. I do have some suggestions about what can be done to assist, which I will mention shortly.

The decline of local newspapers has been attributed to many causes that have undoubtedly played their part, including: the growth of local authority free sheets, which sometimes masquerade as local papers and are not obviously publications of the local authority, although they are, of course, paid for by the council tax payer; the decline in public service notices and public service advertising, which has removed some revenue streams; and competition from the BBC, which I will mention. Many local papers resent the fact that not only is the BBC competing with them by providing online news reports free of charge, but frequently those news reports are taken from local newspapers without proper attribution. The attitude of the competition authorities is another concern; they have adopted a very narrow definition of competition, which has in some cases prevented consolidation, which represents the best chance of creating viable local media companies.

The internet has changed everything. More and more people are accessing their news online and not paying for it. Local newspapers have rightly followed that trend and almost every local newspaper has developed its own online distribution, but it is still provided for free, and therefore revenues have declined. At the same time, the advertising on which local papers depend has migrated away from them, and to the internet.

On the way here this morning, I bumped into Mark D’Arcy, the BBC’s excellent parliamentary correspondent, whom I suspect will be familiar to all hon. Members in this Chamber. He told me that he began his career on the Leicester Mercury. At that time, the paper had a section for property advertising that was a couple of centimetres thick. “Now, of course”, he said, “it is all on Zoopla.” That is reflected right across the board. Classified advertising has been in steady decline as ever more is done online. That is another source of reduction in revenues.

Local newspaper groups are seeking to adapt to this new world. I heard the critical comments of the hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington about David Montgomery’s company, Local World. I have to say that I spent a morning sitting in on its news conference and was impressed with the way that he is trying to ensure the integration of the online news coverage with his local newspapers. There is no question but that the business models have to change. In this world, the old business model is simply not going to work. David Montgomery is making a valiant attempt to develop a viable news model when other former newspaper group owners have withdrawn, as the hon. Gentleman knows.

The decline has left some areas with just one paper, and some with none at all. I will not repeat what has already been said about the dangers that that holds for accountability and democracy. In five weeks’ time, we do not just have national parliamentary elections; in many areas of the country, including mine, we have local elections that in some ways affect people’s lives more than whom they elect to send to this place. How are they supposed to reach a judgment on the performance of local authorities if that is no longer covered in detail by the local paper? That is why local papers matter so much.

The same thing applies in the court system. It is a fundamental principle that justice must not only be done, but be seen to be done. That means that the proceedings of courts need to be reported, as do those of health trusts, education authorities and the new local enterprise partnerships. The hon. Member for Llanelli (Nia Griffith) was absolutely right: as we devolve more power out to these different institutions, we have to ensure accountability by having coverage of them.

To go back to the points made by the hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington, one or two things can be done to help. First, I congratulate the Chancellor and thoroughly welcome his announcement yesterday on the possibility of business rate relief for local newspapers. There is no question but that that will help. It is gratifying that the Treasury has listened and acknowledged the importance of this matter, but more needs to be done. In 2010, the Culture, Media and Sport Committee welcomed a proposal put forward by the Press Association on what it called public service reporting. The idea is that journalists sit in the local council chamber or the local court and make factual, independent content available to any news outlet that wants it. Those journalists would be funded by a public service fund. There was a pilot to introduce that, and it offers a potential way forward.

There is an additional element to that proposal, which I press on the Minister. In the Committee’s recent inquiry on the future of the BBC, we received evidence from the chairman of the KM Group, Geraldine Allinson, to whom my hon. Friend the Member for Gillingham and Rainham (Rehman Chishti) referred. She suggested that the BBC should commission content from local media. Rather than just taking it and not paying for it, the BBC would commission content and so support local media. We received an excellent submission from the South West News Service, which extended the idea with an interesting suggestion. The BBC has an independent production quota for drama. It has to place 25% of its commissioning outside the BBC with independent production houses. SWNS’s suggestion was that we should consider extending that measure to local news, so that the BBC would be required to contract out part of its local news coverage to outside media groups. That could be done on a competitive basis and would be a way in which the BBC, which is extremely well financed by the licence fee, could be part of a solution, rather than being seen to undermine and damage newspapers.

[Mr MacNeil]

I worked as a journalist at the BBC—it was more than 20 years ago, I have to be honest—but does the hon. Gentleman think that the BBC should name-check and credit local media? The BBC picks up a lot of stories from local newspapers, and they go UK-wide and worldwide, but the credit is never given to papers such as the Stornoway Gazette or the Oban Times or whatever.