Scotland Bill

Debate between John Penrose and Ian Murray

Monday 15th June 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (John Penrose)]

I thank the hon. Members for Moray (Angus Robertson), for Nottingham North (Mr Allen), and for Caerphilly (Wayne David) for their contributions to the debate on this group of amendments on the significant electoral powers that will be transferred to the Scottish Parliament and Scottish Government. I hope to respond to as many points as I can, but first let me deal with a number of minor and technical Government amendments before I get on to the meat of the points that have been made during the debate.

Government amendments 93, 94 and 97 amend and clarify the reserved undevolved powers in clause 3 in respect of enforcement provisions within the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000 where they apply to other provisions that are also reserved. Government amendments 95 and 96 remove sections that do not need to be reserved in the 2000 Act as well. Amendments 106 and 107 are minor and technical amendments. Amendment 106 repeals the subsections inserted into the Scotland Act 1998 by section 13 of the Scotland Act 2012. Clause 11 brings the function of making an Order in Council under sections 15(1) and (2) of the 1998 Act within devolved competence and those subsections are therefore no longer required. Amendment 107 repeals section 13 of the Scotland Act 2012 entirely.

Amendment 101 relates to clause 5, which concerns the timing of Scottish parliamentary elections and local government elections in Scotland. It will ensure that general elections for the Scottish Parliament cannot be held on the same day as general elections to the UK Parliament or to the European Parliament or a local government election in Scotland. That is in line with the Smith commission agreement, as we heard from the hon. Member for Moray.

I hope that the hon. Gentleman will be pleased to hear that the purpose of amendment 101 is to remove the provision from the clause that says that a general election to the Scottish Parliament cannot be held in the two months preceding a general election to the UK Parliament or a general election to the European Parliament. That brings us more closely in line with the Smith commission, and is, I hope, an example of cross-party working.

Amendments 92 and 98 are also minor and technical. The purpose of amendment 92 is to protect the individual electoral registration digital service from future technical changes, such as the transfer of functions between UK Ministers. Effectively, it is nothing more than a future-proofing move. If amendment 92 were not made, the effect may be to place an unintentional constraint on the future actions of both the UK and Scottish Governments. The amendment should protect against the potential need to amend the Act as the registration of electors and verification of applications to register via a digital service evolves.

Amendment 92 means that the definition of “digital service” and of “elections in Scotland” in clause 3 is no longer required. Amendment 98 therefore removes those definitions. It does not make the reservation any wider but gives additional clarity over what is to remain reserved—I am talking about the digital service itself but not the powers that have been devolved to the Scottish Parliament.

Amendments 99 and 100 are again minor and technical. Their purpose is to reflect the changes made to the reservation of the IER digital service in clause 3 by amendment 92. Amendment 99 ensures that subsection (4) of new section 12 of the Scotland Act 1998 refers to the amended reservation of the digital service in clause 3—I trust that everybody is taking notes and following closely. Amendment 100 removes the now unnecessary definition of the digital service in clause 4, again as a result of the amended reservation of the digital service in clause 3.

Amendments 102 to 105 are technical amendments that reflect the changes made to the reservation of the IER digital service in clause 3 by amendment 92. Amendment 102 ensures that the regulation-making power of Scottish Ministers in this provision refers to the amended reservation of the digital service in clause 3. Amendment 103 removes the definitions of “the digital service” and “the use of the digital service” from the clause, as they are no longer technically required. Amendment 104 ensures that clause 6 refers to the amended reservation of the digital service, as made by the amendment to clause 3. Finally, amendment 105 removes the definitions of “the digital service” and “elections in Scotland” that are also no longer required as a result of that further amendment.

Let me turn to the other amendments that are part of this wider group. I will start with amendment 42 and the elements of amendments 60 and 61 that relate to clauses 3 and 5 and the continued reservation of certain combinations of polls. The clauses fulfil the Smith commission agreement devolving significant electoral powers to the Scottish Parliament while ensuring that polls for Scottish parliamentary general elections will not be held on the same day as UK parliamentary general elections, European parliamentary general elections or ordinary local government elections in Scotland, which have already been devolved.

[Ian Murray]

Will the Minister explain why the entirety of the administration of Scottish parliamentary and local government elections is devolved to the Scottish Parliament while the UK Parliament reserves the right not to have Scottish parliamentary and local government elections on the same day? Why not devolve them all to allow the Scottish Parliament to make that decision?

[John Penrose]

That is a question I asked myself a short while ago. The reason is very straightforward. Although the two powers are devolved, as the hon. Gentleman rightly points out, changing the rules surrounding them and on whether or not they can happen on the same day is a reserved power. As that is a reserved power, it makes sense to keep any potential combination of elections as a reserved power for the time being, as the two powers match up. Were it to be within the competence of the Scottish Parliament to vary that, it would make sense for the Scottish Government to have the power to adjust the combination rules. As it is, the two match up closely.

STV

Debate between John Penrose and Ian Murray

Thursday 3rd February 2011 Commons Chamber

[John Penrose]

I plan to deal with some of the remarks made by PACT later in my speech. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman is right about part of its remarks, but we have to take into account not only its remarks in their totality, but all the other remarks and consultation submissions made in response to the Government’s request.

The Secretary of State believed it inappropriate to consider this matter in isolation, given the wider and more comprehensive review of public sector broadcasting and regulation that the Government are undertaking over the term of this Parliament. On that basis, he concluded that the proposal should not be taken forward. The Government appreciate that this decision will not be welcomed by everybody. Implementation of the proposal was not, however, in the interests of the Scottish economy as a whole, nor was it likely to promote competition or diversity of production in the long run.

The responses to the public consultation are published on my Department’s website, but I wish to highlight some of the specific points raised by the existing independent production sector. They perhaps deal with some of the interventions that have been made, and they highlight the concerns raised and give some background to the decision.

Many respondents were concerned about the displacement of commissions from the existing Scottish independent production companies to STV. PACT said:

“There is significant risk that the proposed change in the definition would potentially severely damage the Scottish production sector by displacing commissions from other Scottish producers”.

Its contribution expanded on this by saying that

“our main concern, though, is that STV will displace commissions not from London companies but from other, typically smaller Scottish independents, with the resulting damage to the Scottish production sector. The last five years have seen the growth of larger, typically London-based independent companies. However, with a few exceptions, Scotland remains characterised by small companies specialising in one or two genres. A 2008 report, for example, indicated that average turnover for an independent company in Scotland was just £1.33m per year.”

[Ian Murray]

On PACT’s point about the sector in Scotland being characterised by small production companies, the issue for Channel 4 in trying to commission more programmes from Scotland to try to get its percentages up—everyone in Scotland is keen that that should happen—is that there is not sufficient critical mass up there to produce something that Channel 4 could do on a returning basis to achieve that. The only organisations that could do that are the BBC, which cannot do it for licensing reasons, and STV Productions, which cannot do it because it does not have independent producer status, so there is a bit of circular argument on this issue.

[John Penrose]

I appreciate the hon. Gentleman’s logic, but the burden of what PACT has said is that the danger of giving STV independent production status is that it would cannibalise existing Scottish independents and we would end up with a much smaller number of larger producers, with STV massively in the lead. That is a possible outcome, but clearly the Secretary of State, in balancing what he was asked to consider, did not view it as strongly as some of the alternative outcomes.