Supporting UK Artists and Culture

John Nicolson Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd November 2022 Westminster Hall

[John Nicolson (Ochil and South Perthshire) (SNP)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Gosport (Dame Caroline Dinenage) on securing this debate. I was particularly interested in her references to Korea; I recently came back from Korea with other members of the Digital, Culture, Media and Sport Committee. We have a great deal to learn from them. I reference the comments from the right hon. Member for Barking (Dame Margaret Hodge) about Stratford and regeneration. Last night, we visited “Abba Voyage”, which was specifically chosen to help regenerate. I would like to associate myself with the comments about the English National Opera, which many Members made. I am a great fan of the ENO and wish to see it thrive.

We all appreciate the vital role of culture and art in our lives. Art offers consolation, empowerment to communities, and culture benefits for participants and performers and helps people to realise their own value. We in Scotland cannot mitigate entirely the impacts of covid or the rise in costs but, as so much of culture is devolved, the Scottish Government have acted. We delivered an addition £125 million in funding for culture and heritage before covid, and a further £2.2 million directed at grassroots venues to make sure that once the worst of the pandemic had passed, we would still have stages to fill.

Scotland needs the borrowing powers that would allow us to meet critical issues with emergency funding when required. Instead, we have to rely on the UK Government. At a time when we need all the help practicable to secure an industry that has done so much with so little money, we instead have disastrous cuts to the budgets. We know the impacts: a 7.1% drop in disposable income over the next two years. This is a time when the cultural sector needs more audience numbers and more tickets sold.

The UK Government are hellbent on pursuing Brexit to the rock bottom, regardless of casualties. The hard Brexit has cut off revenue streams, making it harder for cultural actors from Scotland to travel to the EU to earn money from audiences there. Lord Frost rather casually said of his failure to secure a deal on touring artists, that it was a “shame”. The man failed to deliver a specific deal on the issue. Twenty four out of 27 EU countries have agreed access for touring musicians, but they are not uniform. It is so much more difficult to tour—for some players, it has become impossible.

Brexit is an irredeemable failure. However, the specific damage to the cultural sector can be mitigated with effort at the negotiating table. We need the UK Government to accept their failings and the sharp need for Scotland’s cultural sector to frictionless access to the EU, along with our friends south of the border. The Scottish Government are engaged constantly in a dialogue with stakeholders in the cultural sector to seek pathways through these crises. We have suggestions: a cut in VAT would help struggling venues; renegotiating with a homogeneous simple touring visa within the UK would enormously; and the devolution of borrowing powers to Holyrood could support those most in need.

A future without our vibrant arts and cultural sector is surely unthinkable. On the Scottish National party Benches here at Westminster and at Scottish Government level we will do all we can to shield Scotland and its cultural sector from many of the calamities imposed upon us by Brexit and the UK Government.

Dolphin and Whale Hunting: Faroe Islands

John Nicolson Excerpts

Monday 11th July 2022 Westminster Hall

[John Nicolson (Ochil and South Perthshire) (SNP)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered e-petition 597171, relating to the hunting of dolphins and whales in the Faroe Islands.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Christopher. I thank the 104,664 petitioners who made this debate possible, and Dominic Dyer for his continued passion and drive to protect animals. On Sunday 12 September last year, a small armada of boats herded a large group of mammals towards a beach. Those in the boats were not tourists, not scientists, and not hungry and looking for food. They were islanders in a sophisticated country in the north of Europe, a country with one of the highest standards of living in the world: the Faroe Islands. The creatures were highly intelligent mammals—dolphins—and they were being driven towards the Skalabotnur beach.

Dolphins are playful creatures and not suspicious of mankind. They probably had no idea of their intended fate until it was too late. It was originally estimated that there were 200 dolphins in the pod, but we now know that the number was much higher. Over 1,400 white-sided dolphins were set upon with knives, ropes and blunted hooks. It took hours to kill them all. Once the hours of senseless killing had stopped, the sea had turned red. The scene resembled something from a biblical plague. Had that killing happened here, the thugs responsible for such a wantonly cruel act would face the full force of the law and would serve prison sentences. Remarkably, however, in our near neighbour, the Faroe Islands, what was done was absolutely legal. Although what happened was grotesque, the killing of mammals on such a scale is, sadly, a regular occurrence. Last year, excluding the event on 12 September, 667 long-finned pilot whales were killed in the Faroe Islands. This year alone, 182 have been killed—intelligent aquatic mammals needlessly, brutally killed.

The practice of driving whales into specific bays is called Grindadrap or, more commonly, the Grind. It has its origins in the middle ages, when sailors would drive the whales and dolphins to beaches and kill them with spears and rowing boats. The killing of whales at that time was justifiable. The whales, killed in far fewer numbers, were vital to the survival of the Faroese people, who lived at the edge of northern Europe in an unforgiving winter climate. I know a bit about those climates—my family on my father’s side are from the Outer Hebrides. My surname, Nicolson, is Nordic and from Orkney, the Faroe Islands’ southern neighbour. My family lived for countless generations there, too.

All three archipelagos have suffered famines throughout much of their history. Fresh meat and whale oil were once vital to the survival of folk so reliant on barley, seafood and, later, potatoes. But no longer. The Faroes are, thankfully, highly prosperous. The slaughtering of dolphins and whales is not required for meat. In fact, the slaughtered animals are hard to get into the human food chain, as so few people, especially young people, want to eat them.

As for the method of slaughter, who could justify it? And on what basis? Tradition? Sailors now use boats with electric motors to drive large numbers of whales and dolphins into killing bays. I apologise in advance, but it is important to know exactly how these mammals are killed. It is not a quick death. Sea Shepherd has reported that the killing of dolphins regularly takes over two minutes and can take up to eight—eight minutes dying at the hands of sailors using rudimentary tools such as knives and blunted hooks.

The fate of the whales is even more monstrous. They are killed by what is called a spinal lance. If used correctly —an unfortunate word under these circumstances—it will paralyse the whale, which will then slowly bleed to death. On average, the process takes 13 minutes—13 minutes of that wounded, paralysed, sentient being floating in its own blood while other creatures are killed round about it. The killing is indiscriminate, with pregnant mothers, juveniles and calves all being slaughtered. All of that takes place in the 21st century, just 250 miles from the coast of Scotland.

The UK Government have expressed their opposition to that barbarism and to the hunting of sea mammals more generally, and that is welcome. The International Whaling Commission has condemned the killing too. However, no amount of condemnation has worked, so we must get tougher. That is why this petition advocates a greater use of the Government’s levers of power. That is the only way that we can ensure that that brutality does not continue.

There are very few advantages to Brexit, but post Brexit, the UK was able to enter into a free trade agreement with the Faroe Islands. Although the isles have a minuscule impact on our trade, we have a disproportionate impact on theirs. Their exports to the UK have gone up 157% since we signed the free trade agreement. We import £864 million of goods and services from the Faroe Islands, yet we export only a minuscule £17 million to them. For us, obviously, that is an inconsequential deal, yet for the Faroe Islands it is vital.

We have the power to make the Faroe Islands focus and desist. Condemnation alone will not stop the medieval practice of the Grind. We must let them know that we will back our condemnation with trade action, and we will not be alone. On Capitol Hill, congressmen increasingly see this issue as part of their environmental agenda, and focus on the Faroe Islands is increasing. We must let them know that their ghoulish barbarism will not be excused by mutters about tradition. The days of the Grind are numbered.

[Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to see you in the Chair, Sir Christopher. I congratulate the hon. Member for Ochil and South Perthshire (John Nicolson) on speaking with such horrific eloquence about what is going on with the—I think it is pronounced “grinned” rather than “grind”, but I am not sure. I was just googling, but perhaps it is—

[John Nicolson]

It is a regional pronunciation.

[Kerry McCarthy]

Okay. Well, the hon. Member is closer to the Faroe Islands than I am, but I think it is pronounced “grinned”. Regardless of that, I was researching for this debate and saw the footage of what is happening there.

I once went to an event—I think it was probably something like Vegfest in Bristol—where someone on a stall showed me a tourist brochure for the Faroe Islands. There was a double-page spread showing red water with the bodies of animals in it. This was, “Come and witness our cultural traditions.” It was actually seen as a wonderful, spectacular event, in the same way that people might have been invited to watch bullfighting in Spain. It really was quite horrific, and I think the hon. Member from the Petitions Committee more than did justice to how horrific it is.

Over the years—this dates back to discussing the derogation at EU level—I have seen so many excuses made by people who are really just washing their hands of the blood of these thousands and thousands of whales and dolphins. I gather that the Faroe Islands Prime Minister promised a review at some point, but we have seen very little in terms of outcomes.

--- Later in debate ---

[John Nicolson]

Thank you, Sir Christopher, for chairing today’s debate. I thank the hon. Members who spoke and, belatedly, welcome the Minister to his place. I thank the constituents who have written to us for their engagement and, indeed, those who are sitting in the Gallery. There is a great deal of agreement across the House, and I was delighted to see the recognition of the Faroe Islands’ extraordinary financial turnaround, as mentioned by the hon. Member for Brentford and Isleworth (Ruth Cadbury). It is remarkable what a small independent country can do, is it not?

On the substance of the Minister’s point, I do not think that exploiting diplomatic channels is enough. It is too opaque. I do not think that angry letters from Members of the House of Lords in ministerial positions is enough. Exhortation is not enough. Action is now required. Financial pressure is essential.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House has considered e-petition 597171, relating to the hunting of dolphins and whales in the Faroe Islands.

Transgender Conversion Therapy

John Nicolson Excerpts

Monday 13th June 2022 Westminster Hall

[Elliot Colburn]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for her intervention and I absolutely agree with her. I am conscious of time, Sir Graham, so I will start to wrap up my remarks so that we can get on to other people’s contributions.

Going back to the example of a set of twins where one twin is gay and one is trans, as the proposals stand, the law would only protect one of those two individuals. The other twin would be left open to continually being subjected to the kind of practices that we have been discussing, with no legal protections. By deliberately excluding trans people from the ban, I believe that the message that we would send is that it is acceptable to inflict such behaviour on someone because of who they are, which just cannot be right.

[John Nicolson (Ochil and South Perthshire) (SNP)]

There seems to be a bit of confusion about exactly what this so-called “therapy” entails. It is perhaps worth saying that these coercive and “abhorrent practices” do not work. By the way, “abhorrent practices” are the words of the Conservative Government, although they have done a reverse ferret on this, of course. Perhaps for those who have come to this debate to listen with an open mind, the hon. Gentleman might explain what those “abhorrent practices” involve and why they are not voluntary.

[Elliot Colburn]

Absolutely. This comes back to the issue of consent. Can someone actually consent to having harm done to themselves, even if they have all the facts? For me the answer is no. Again, that comes back to the core point, which is that these are “abhorrent practices”—harmful practices and that cause people to have to undergo years of psychological therapy to try to get over what has been done to them, which is why they need to be banned in law.

Sir Graham, I am coming to the end of my remarks. What this issue boils down to is that achieving a trans-inclusive conversion therapy ban without any unintended consequences is, frankly, what we should be doing anyway—in other words, we should be producing good, tightly worded legislation. That has already been achieved in multiple countries and territories with no unintended consequences whatsoever, so we already have international working examples to draw upon when it comes to the drafting of this legislation.

All sectors of UK society, from health to religion, have supported calls for a trans-inclusive ban. That, after all, is what this debate is all about. It is not about the noise around trans issues, which I mentioned at the start of my remarks; it is about protecting people from harm, no matter who they are. We have a duty as parliamentarians to protect the people who we serve from harm, so I urge colleagues to join me in exercising that duty.

--- Later in debate ---

[John Nicolson (Ochil and South Perthshire) (SNP)]

I filmed a conversion therapy once for a BBC documentary —I was a journalist before I became an MP—and that was when I first encountered a conversion therapist. He advertised himself as offering the last chance of a normal life, which of course lured young and vulnerable people who were terrified of their identity. I watched as this untrained pastor told a vulnerable and distressed young man that he had parted company with God and that was why he was anguished about his sexuality. Clearly distraught, the young man told me that he would commit suicide if the pastor failed to “cure” him.

I discovered that the pastor’s background was deeply disturbing, which is why I want some hon. Gentlemen and hon. Ladies present to be keenly aware of who we are talking about when we consider who is offering this so-called therapy. They are not experts who can help anyone. This pastor’s own son had committed suicide some years earlier because he, too, had a “dearth of masculinity”—or so his father had persuaded him. The pastor showed me the suicide note that his son had written him. The lad had connected up the exhaust pipe of his car to the family garage. His handwriting on the suicide note had trailed off as he lost consciousness and then lost his life, as the fumes filled his lungs. His dying wish was that his father would understand that the love he felt was real. He asked his father to meet his boyfriend and deliver him a note that he had written and left for him. The pastor told me that he had torn up that note and recommitted his life to the conversion therapy that had led his own son to suicide. This was the man who was offering conversion therapy to the vulnerable, with no controls under the law—conversion therapy, which the UK Conservative Government, breaking a manifesto commitment, appear now to be choosing not to outlaw.

We cannot allow this Government decision. If we believe the intelligence briefings from Conservative Back Benchers, the decision has already been made. It is our duty to do all we can to protect young people from the unrepentant cruelty of the pastor and his ilk, wallowing in prejudice and ignorance, for they are the reality of so-called conversion therapy. They take the most vulnerable in society, aiming to convince them that their nature can be altered. It is the cruellest of all deceptions.

Once upon a time, the Conservative Government agreed:

“There is no justification for these coercive and abhorrent practices”.

That was from a Conservative Government document, and I agree. The UK Government’s own research has found that trans people are twice as likely to experience conversion abuse as gay non-trans people. Galop, the anti-abuse charity, found that 11% of trans people have been subjected to conversion therapies by their own families. Just imagine the cruelty: the very people who should be looking after you and affirming who you are taking you off to the place of greatest danger.

[Stephen Doughty]

I totally agree with my honourable friend. He will know that Galop also found that trans and non-binary people face a higher level of sexual violence than other members of the LGBT+ community, and it was designed to convert them from their gender identity. That is the reality of what we are dealing with, and why it has to be a fully inclusive ban.

--- Later in debate ---

[John Nicolson]

Indeed, because some of these sordid people, as my honourable friend will know, rape those who are sent to their so-called care, in order to “cure” them of their sexual orientation or gender identity.

In the past year, Canada, France and New Zealand have all made the decision to ban trans conversion therapy. Scotland will shortly do so as well, I am proud to say. Some Members, as we heard earlier, say they have come with an open mind to learn. I believe in evidence-based policy making, so let us see what the experts say about this issue and who they are. The United Nations independent expert on sexual orientation and gender identity, the national health service, the Royal College of Psychiatrists, the Royal College of General Practitioners and the British Psychological Society, along with dozens of health, counselling and psychotherapy organisations across these islands, are all calling on the UK Government to end these practices for both gay and trans people. I would say that they are the experts—wouldn’t you?

Just in case anybody is trying to hide behind some kind of religious veil, only a few weeks ago the ancient Kirk, the Church of Scotland—my own Church; the Church in which generations of my family were ministers—lent its voice to the growing chorus of organisations that support banning trans conversion abuse. It is not a religious issue; it is cruel, it is damaging, and it does not work. It is surely our duty, as parliamentarians, to stand always on the side of the vulnerable. Let us do so on this.

--- Later in debate ---

[Kirsten Oswald (East Renfrewshire) (SNP)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Mr Mundell. I thank the hon. Member for Carshalton and Wallington (Elliot Colburn) for the way he introduced today’s debate. The way he pinned down the specifics of what we are meant to be discussing was really helpful. I also thank the 145,000-plus people who signed the petition, including all those from East Renfrewshire who signed and the many who have been in touch to let me know of their deep concern at the gap in the Government’s proposals. I also thank the many organisations that have kindly been in touch with briefings on this issue.

I think the tone of today’s debate has been interesting. I always wonder what these debates will actually be like. I have to say, it has been really interesting to hear the groundswell of feeling from MPs across this Chamber saying that we are not okay with the gap and we think that conversion therapy should be banned in all circumstances. That is really important, because we need to be clear that nobody’s identity should be up for debate. Nobody’s identity should be a political football; nobody’s rights should be diminished or compromised. It is always important that we bear these things in mind when we consider the language we use in this discussion, because what we say here has a significant impact on those outside the Chamber.

So what are we talking about here? Conversion practices—I take the point that the hon. Member for Thurrock (Jackie Doyle-Price) made about the use of the word “therapy”; I think that is right, and I believe the Scottish Parliament uses the term “conversion practices”—are practices or conducts that are targeted at an individual with the intention of changing or supressing that person’s sexual orientation and/or gender identity. My hon. Friend the Member for Ochil and South Perthshire (John Nicolson) described very vividly the terrible reality of what that can mean. The UK Government themselves have stated:

“There is no justification for these coercive and abhorrent practices”.

That being the case, I wonder why we are here, particularly when, again, the UK Government’s own research found that trans people are twice as likely to be subjected to or offered conversion practices as non-trans lesbian, gay or bi people.

I think it was the hon. Member for Arfon (Hywel Williams) who outlined the fact that banning conversion practices does not criminalise outcome-neutral explorative conversations or therapy. It is only practices that have a targeted focus on directing someone towards a more “acceptable”—as the convertor would have it—outcome that would be criminalised. That is because the bottom line here, which we need to be clear about, is that conversion practices are abusive and deeply harmful, for which there is no excuse, and nobody should be left at risk of these practices.

How did we get to this point? We had a commitment from the UK Government that they would ban conversion therapy, but in April they performed a series of quite extraordinary U-turns. First, they said that they planned to drop the ban on conversion therapy. Then, predictably and correctly, they U-turned on that after a significant outcry, including from a number of Members on the Conservative Benches. However, that U-turn was only partial. I find it inexplicable that we would suggest that it is okay to ban conversion therapy yet somehow miss out this very vulnerable group.

I thought that the speeches today by the hon. Members for Rutland and Melton (Alicia Kearns) and for Darlington (Peter Gibson) were particularly important in that regard, and we need to remember that a significant number of voices are having nothing to do with the UK Government’s position, because it is completely unjustifiable. Indeed, this is a disgraceful way for the UK Government to conduct themselves, with no thought, as far as I can see, for the people directly affected. That is really disappointing, because of the damage it will cause to people’s lives.

It has been reported that the UK Government think that this is the correct course of action because there could be unintended consequences. We really need to be clear here—I think that there will be very predictable consequences if this gap remains, and the consequences will be that people’s lives will continue to be harmed and people will continue to be put into the most difficult situations, which will cause their lives to be significantly damaged.

[John Nicolson]

Does my hon. Friend recognise that one of the consequences is the fact that the international conference Safe To Be Me, which the UK Government trumpeted so keenly, has been cancelled? I know that she and I are both deeply concerned about the UK’s reputation, and this cancellation highlights just how far the UK has slipped on this issue, such that people no longer want to come to our shores.

[Kirsten Oswald]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for making that important point. If we look at the UK’s standing, in terms of the league table of places with a positive environment for people to be safe in their identity as members of the LGBT community, we see that it is slipping, and slipping fast.

Members have made points today that we should reflect upon. The hon. Member for Carshalton and Wallington talked about the fact that the UK Government’s own survey pointed out the harms that are being caused, as my hon. Friend the Member for Ochil and South Perthshire has just done. The hon. Member for Edinburgh West said that there is ample evidence of the harms that are caused to trans people by conversion therapy. The hon. Member for Darlington basically pointed out—I am paraphrasing here— that it is simply not okay to treat trans people as if they are ill and need to be cured.

However, it is not just we here today who are saying these things. We have heard that Mind, Relate, the Association of Christian Counsellors, the Scottish Human Rights Commission and many other organisations have also spoken out. The British Medical Association has spoken out, and it does not mince its words. It says of conversion therapy:

“It must be banned in its entirety.”

The BMA says that it is extremely concerned that the ban on conversion therapy has not been extended to transgender and non-binary people. It points to the UK Government’s own analysis of the impacts on the mental health of trans people, who, it notes, are

“already most vulnerable to being subjected to so-called conversion therapy, with one in seven trans people reporting that they had been offered or had ‘conversion therapy’”.

It is not just the BMA saying this kind of thing. The Royal College of Nursing’s annual congress voted overwhelmingly to support a total ban on conversion therapy; the British Psychological Society has made its views clear, too; and the Church of Scotland passed a motion at its general assembly calling for a ban on conversion therapy. I have increasingly heard from constituents with a strong religious faith who are also deeply concerned about the potential harm caused by not implementing a full ban.

My hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow East (David Linden) said that he “hummed and hawed” when considering whether to speak in this debate. I have to say that I am very glad that he did. I already knew that he is a thoughtful and compassionate man, but he demonstrated that again today in what I thought was a very important contribution. That is because there is a groundswell among those with a strong religious faith. We have heard about the large numbers of religious leaders who have spoken out on this subject already. There is no justification for a gap in the ban, and religion is not a justification either.

That recognition, from all angles, of the immense harm, is borne out by the people who are directly affected. Their voices are perhaps a bit missing today, but they are who we should be listening to. I was interested to hear the hon. Member for Oxford West and Abingdon (Layla Moran) speak, because I thought she pointed that out very well. The experience of trans people who have already been harmed by conversion therapy is what we must consider when we think of the fact that that is somehow being left out of the proposed provisions.

Like my hon. Friend the Member for Stirling (Alyn Smith), I am very glad that the SNP Government in Scotland are clear about their commitment to ensure that everyone, regardless of sexual orientation or gender identity, is safe from conversion practices. It is notable that they have taken steps to include in their process voices of people who are directly affected. They have an expert advisory group on ending conversion practice, which will look at support for victims and survivors—something that we must not let slip as we move forward because, while I and many others in this room are pushing for a ban on conversion therapy that includes trans people, there are many people whose lives have already been irreparably damaged.

Scotland is only one of a number of countries taking that approach; we have heard about Northern Ireland, and I understand that Wales is looking at this too. In the last year, Canada, New Zealand and France have all gone down this road, and nothing terrible has happened—of course it wouldn’t. However, the way that the UK Government are approaching this issue is making life particularly difficult for trans people; this conversation in itself is making life harder for people who are already vulnerable.

Oral Answers to Questions

John Nicolson Excerpts

Thursday 9th February 2017 Commons Chamber

[Karen Bradley]

The hon. Gentleman asks a very timely question not only because fashion week is coming up, but because the Minister of State and I met the fashion industry only on Monday to discuss exactly those points. I reassure him and the fashion industry that, because the great repeal Bill will bring European rules into UK law, therefore making sure that there is no cliff edge, those rights will be protected.

[John Nicolson (East Dunbartonshire) (SNP)]

Last week, the Culture, Media and Sport Committee took evidence from John Kampfner and others representing the creative industries. Some of those industries employ a 40% EU workforce, and these people are now in limbo. What reassurances can the Secretary of State give that their roles and livelihoods are secure?

[Karen Bradley]

I pay tribute to the work of the Creative Industries Federation, led by John Kampfner, and the role that it has played in working with the Government to develop our plan to ensure that we get the right deal for the creative industries when the United Kingdom leaves the European Union. The hon. Gentleman will also know that my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister has been very clear that she wants an early settlement on the matter of EU nationals in the UK, and UK nationals living in Europe. She is working hard, as we all are across Government, to ensure that we can achieve that as soon as possible.

Oral Answers to Questions

John Nicolson Excerpts

Thursday 15th December 2016 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

Of course, Channel 4 pays its way and pays for itself—it is not subsidised; it is just owned by the taxpayer. I am sure, with contributions such as that, my hon. Friend will bring great insight and entertainment to the Women and Equalities Committee.

[John Nicolson (East Dunbartonshire) (SNP)]

The Minister talks of merit. Channel 4 has 13 board members. Ten of them are men. All of them are white. Will he explain to the House why he and the Secretary of State blocked the sole black candidate, who was described as outstanding by Ofcom?

[Matt Hancock]

In this case, there were four vacancies and we chose the four best candidates. I will have no truck with the argument that we should have tokenism. I support appointment on merit. I also support making sure that we reach into all communities. The fact that this ministerial team has appointed 24% of people from black and minority ethnic backgrounds demonstrates how much we care about—

Oral Answers to Questions

John Nicolson Excerpts

Thursday 8th September 2016 Commons Chamber

[John Nicolson (East Dunbartonshire) (SNP)]

May I also welcome the new Secretary of State and her team and wish them well? Has the Minister had any opportunity to read the report on the BBC by the Select Committee on Culture, Media and Sport, and in particular the Committee’s unanimous recommendation that there be a separate Scottish six o’clock news? Moreover, have the Minister or his colleagues talked about that with anybody senior at the BBC, and can he reassure us that there will be no Government interference to try to thwart the “Scottish Six” when it is launched?

[Matt Hancock]

The hon. Gentleman raises an important issue, and I know that there have been extensive discussions with the BBC at all levels about the draft charter and the framework agreement. I am afraid that he will just have to wait a short while longer for more detail about that.