Scottish Independence and the Scottish Economy

John Lamont Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd November 2022 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Scotland (John Lamont)]

It is a pleasure to respond to this debate in my first appearance at the Dispatch Box as a Scotland Office Minister. I am proud to be wearing the “Back British Farming” wheat pin badge tonight; today is Back British Farming Day, and there has never been a better time to show the importance of Scottish and British food producers in our country.

I thank all right hon. and hon. Members who have spoken. I will address in detail as many of their points as I can, but first let us talk about the motion before the House.

It is frankly disappointing that SNP Members selected this subject for debate when there are so many other pressing matters that the people of Scotland view as a priority. SNP Members could have used their time to raise matters of importance to my constituents in the Scottish Borders and their own constituents across Scotland, such as the cost of living, health or education. [Interruption.] SNP Members can shout all they want, but I know that those are the issues and priorities that the Scottish people want us to talk about, instead of obsessing about referendums.

SNP Members could have used the time to encourage their friends in the Scottish Government to set aside their usual approach and instead work together more effectively and constructively with the UK Government; Conservative Members would have very much welcomed that. The SNP could have acknowledged the huge benefits that being part of the United Kingdom brings to the people of Scotland, such as the Union dividend, which means that remaining a part of the UK is worth around £2,000 a year to every person in Scotland. Instead, throughout the debate, SNP Members have focused solely on the issue of another divisive referendum. The SNP Government must get back to the day job and stop obsessing about another referendum.

Many hon. Members today have highlighted the challenges that we face. They are right to have done so. Like the rest of the world, we are grappling with the economic aftermath of covid-19, compounded by the war in Europe, but more division and disruption is not the answer. Now is not the time to discuss splitting up the country, when we should be focusing on pulling together. Now is the time for unity, not division.

[Alan Brown]

rose—

[Drew Hendry]

rose—

[John Lamont]

SNP Members are trying to intervene, but they have had six hours to talk about the issues that really concern people in Scotland. I will make some progress, and then I may take some interventions if time permits.

When he took office, the Prime Minister set out clearly that he wants to bring people back together and unite the country. Meanwhile, the SNP’s priority is division, division, division. Another divisive referendum is the wrong priority at the worst possible time. It is a distraction from the very real challenges that people across Scotland and the United Kingdom face. With that in mind, I turn to points made by hon. Members today.

The SNP Westminster leader, the right hon. Member for Ross, Skye and Lochaber (Ian Blackford), got in a bit of a muddle yet again, frankly, over what currency an independent Scotland would use. The SNP’s currency proposals lack any form of credibility. In the same breath, the SNP proposes establishing a Scottish pound and committing to rejoin the European Union. Given that the EU clearly states that adopting the euro is a core requirement for membership, I struggle to find any credibility in that. I suggest that the SNP’s proposals to continue using the pound are a subtle admission that the economic benefits of remaining part of the UK are strong.

We also heard from the hon. Member for Edinburgh South (Ian Murray), whom I join in paying respects to the hon. Member for Glenrothes (Peter Grant) on the passing of his father. The hon. Member for Edinburgh South argued that the best way to protect the Union was to elect a Labour Government. I would suggest that the best way to ensure that Scotland remains at the heart of the Union is to elect more Scottish Conservative MPs in Scotland and to secure the re-election of this Conservative Prime Minister here at Westminster, thereby stopping any grubby deals that the SNP may do with other Opposition parties.

My hon. Friend the Member for Banff and Buchan (David Duguid), to whom I pay tribute for his work in the Scotland Office, rightly highlighted some of the important interventions that this Government have made to support Scotland. The hon. Member for Perth and North Perthshire (Pete Wishart) encouraged much audience participation in his speech—it was a bit like an early pantomime performance—but failed to produce any answers to fill the gaping holes in the SNP’s argument for another independence referendum.

My hon. Friend the Member for Aberconwy (Robin Millar) did a tremendous job of demolishing the nationalist argument for independence, as did the hon. Member for Chesterfield (Mr Perkins), who rightly identified how bad SNP Members are at losing referendums, in that they constantly demand more and more opportunities until they get the result that they want. Similarly, the hon. Member for Edinburgh West (Christine Jardine) made it clear that the SNP does not speak for the majority of Scots on the question of independence.

We heard from a catalogue of SNP and Alba Members: the hon. Members for Paisley and Renfrewshire North (Gavin Newlands), for West Dunbartonshire (Martin Docherty-Hughes), for East Dunbartonshire (Amy Callaghan), for Edinburgh North and Leith (Deidre Brock), for East Lothian (Kenny MacAskill), for Midlothian (Owen Thompson) and for Inverclyde (Ronnie Cowan), as well as many others who became increasingly excited about the prospect of another independence referendum but failed to provide any clear answers, any credible solutions or any indication of what an independent Scotland would look like.

Unfortunately time prevents me from referring to all the points that were raised in the debate, but I will happily take some interventions.

[Alan Brown]

rose—

[John Lamont]

I will take an intervention from the hon. Member.

[Alan Brown]

Earlier, we heard about the benefits to the Union of the levelling-up fund. We keep being told that this is the most successful political Union ever, but if it is so good, why does the UK have the highest levels of inequality in the developed world apart from the United States and the worst pension levels relative to the working wage in western Europe—and why do we need a levelling-up fund if the Union is so successful?

[John Lamont]

My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Scotland set out very clearly the benefits of Scotland’s remaining part of the United Kingdom. I strongly reject the hon. Gentleman’s assertions about poverty in this country: we are a compassionate Government, working very hard to support the most vulnerable people in our society, whether they are in Scotland or in the rest of the UK.

Let me end by again thanking Members for their contributions, and making a few closing remarks. Scotland voted decisively in 2014 to remain part of the United Kingdom, and the SNP must respect the decision of the people of Scotland. We must now focus on key priorities, and particularly on dealing with the cost of living and tackling the economic challenges that we face. Time and again, in poll after poll, the people of Scotland tell SNP Members, and tell Nicola Sturgeon, that another referendum is not their priority.

[David Linden]

rose—

[John Lamont]

If the hon. Member can tell me why we should be having a referendum now rather than dealing with the cost of living crisis, the failing education system in Scotland, the NHS backlog in Scotland and the lack of funding for local authorities, I will happily take an intervention from him.

[David Linden]

If the Minister’s party can change party leaders in seven weeks, why cannot the people of Scotland revisit this question more than seven years later?

[John Lamont]

I am grateful for that intervention. I clearly remember taking part in the 2014 referendum, when we were promised by those in the yes campaign that it would be a once-in-a-generation opportunity—

Owen Thompson claimed to move the closure (Standing Order No. 36).

Question put forthwith, That the Question be now put.

Question agreed to.

Main Question accordingly put.