Israeli Teenagers (Abduction and Murder)

John Glen Excerpts

Tuesday 1st July 2014 Commons Chamber

[Hugh Robertson]

I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend. If someone wanted to derail the peace process and the prospects of peace, I could think of no better way to do it than to carry out such actions. One needs only to go there or to watch events from here to sense the angst that this has caused. That absolutely shows the importance of getting the peace process back on track.

[John Glen (Salisbury) (Con)]

My constituent, Rev. Pat Clegg, is a frequent visitor to the west bank and a frequent correspondent with me on Israeli-Palestinian matters. She wrote to me last week, deeply concerned about how universities, colleges and newspaper offices were being stormed, as she put it, by Israeli forces searching for the missing teenagers. Although I am mindful of the significant challenges in securing accurate information in the circumstances, is the Minister aware of those reports and can he comment on them?

[Hugh Robertson]

Yes. I am very aware of the impact that any form of military action has on life in the west bank, as are many others. My hon. Friend’s constituent and others have properly drawn the international community’s attention to that. On the other hand, we have to understand that Israel is the one liberal democracy in that part of the world and that it lies in an arc of countries where instability is everywhere. Security is Israel’s key concern, and we understand that, but it is important that the actions taken in this regard are precisely targeted to identify and deal with the perpetrators and not a wider objective.

Iraq and Ending Sexual Violence in Conflict

John Glen Excerpts

Monday 16th June 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

No, I do not agree with that. Nor do I think that the recent events in Iraq should be turned into a proxy debate about Tony Blair and everything that he has ever said or done. The shadow Foreign Secretary is looking rather alarmed about the idea of a proxy debate about Tony Blair. In any case, we have set up an inquiry in this House into the Iraq war, and that inquiry will report in due course. [Hon. Members: “When?”] If the inquiry had been set up when I called for it, it would have reported a long time ago. Hon. Members will have to ask those who were in Government at the time, and who resisted such an inquiry for a long time, about the delay in its reporting.

We can all pass judgment in detail when that report is published, but the issue we must address now is how to deal with this situation. I do not think it would help this situation for Tony Blair to feel that he has to resign from other positions.

[John Glen (Salisbury) (Con)]

Many people in this country will be keen to understand how an estimated 400 British nationals came to be engaged in foreign terrorism in Iraq and Syria. What conversations is the Foreign Secretary having with his colleagues in government to ensure that those individuals will not have the option of returning to the UK—ever?

[Mr Hague]

We are having many conversations in government and, of course, with other Governments about how to prevent that. As my hon. Friend will understand, if a British national leaves via a third country and ultimately travels to Syria over the border of one of Syria’s neighbours, it is very difficult for us in the UK to know about that. We advise strongly against all travel to Syria and have made it very clear that the Home Secretary will not hesitate to use her powers to withdraw passports and cancel leave to remain in the United Kingdom and that our security forces will make arrests wherever there is the appropriate evidence. People can be absolutely sure that we will be extremely vigilant about this issue.

Human Rights (North Korea)

John Glen Excerpts

Tuesday 13th May 2014 Westminster Hall

[Fiona Bruce]

I do, and in answer to the hon. Gentleman’s question that I referred to earlier, one way we can also provide support is through some of the organisations that go into North Korea; many of them are Christian organisations, such as Open Doors or Christian Solidarity Worldwide. The commission heard from Amnesty International, in a witness session, that support for them by means of food aid will get through to people in North Korea. There are means of reaching North Koreans and those organisations are providing tremendous strength and support for people in North Korea as they travel about and provide aid and information.

I turn back to the commission’s report. It was not its intention to repeat in detail evidence of the human rights violations, because they were already extremely well documented in the UN commission’s report, published earlier this year, by Mr Justice Kirby. As the Conservative party human rights commission’s report states:

“Instead, this brief report aims to serve as a policy document for the Conservative Party, summarising the scale of the challenge”

faced by the international community

“and then focusing on possible ways forward for the United Kingdom in helping to lead the international community’s effort to end the climate of impunity in North Korea, enhance mechanisms for accountability and justice, break the regime’s information blockade, and bring an end to more than half a century of horrific suffering endured by the North Korean people.”

Breaking that information blockade is, as my colleagues have mentioned, one way in which we can provide support. Mr Jang said, interestingly, that,

“this is not just a humane thing it is also a pragmatic thing to do”.

The commission urges the UK Government to continue their efforts while pursuing a critical engagement in the DPRK on questions of human rights on every level. We are also pressing them to continue to invest in academic and cultural exchanges, such as sponsoring the British Council’s English teaching in North Korea. Many escapees have told us they benefited directly from that. Although the British Council has only four people teaching there, it has taught hundreds of North Koreans over the years. In many cases, that has been extremely helpful when people have sought to move on.

Similarly, the report encourages increased investment in developing the skills and education of North Korean refugees in the UK. The country will need leaders who can go back to it when change happens; it will need men and women of courage, insight and vision who have experienced life in a free nation. I think, for example, of one young refugee, Timothy, who has done a little work experience in my office. He grew up in North Korea, but he was orphaned. From the ages of about eight to 14, he virtually lived on the streets. He then managed to escape to China, but unfortunately he was caught, repatriated and tortured. He managed to escape again, and he finally reached this country. He is now studying politics at Salford university.

We need to take care of such people. The UK has about 600 North Korean refugees—the largest diaspora in the world, outside South Korea. We really should increase engagement with them and draw on their knowledge and experience. We could then send communications from them into North Korea, using some of the technology we have these days—smuggled USB sticks, DVDs and other portable devices. Such things can also be used to send over films, newspaper articles and reports from the human rights organisations I mentioned, and information can also be brought back. If we can work more closely with the North Korean diaspora here, we can find another way of breaking the information blockade.

[John Glen (Salisbury) (Con)]

My hon. Friend is making a typically insightful speech. However, the concern most people have when thinking of North Korea is about the lack of hope. Individuals in the regime may be inclined to distance themselves in some way from the leader, but there is a fear of the risks associated with doing anything differently. My hon. Friend speaks positively about the wedge of hope and the things we can do to support the diaspora in this country, but what can we do to support those who are inclined to resist the pressure to conform to the leader’s direction?

[Fiona Bruce]

I entirely agree that lives are lived in permanent fear. Even before they can read or write, children are taught to fear and worship the regime—that is a terrible mixture in people’s mindset. However, sending information will gradually free their minds. I accept that that is an extremely slow process, but if we do not try, how will these things happen? That is my question. If we do not do these things, people will never know the truth. However, we cannot say we do not know the truth, because the 400-page report from Mr Justice Kirby has told the world of the horrors of this regime, and we must act—we must take what steps we can to address the situation.

I turn now to the many calls made in this debate, and in several others, for the BBC to broadcast into North Korea and, indeed, South Korea. Again, I ask the BBC to consider the issue. A large percentage of North Koreans can now access media devices capable of receiving foreign media, and DVD players, televisions and radios are smuggled into the country. Under the remit of the BBC Trust, one specific purpose of the BBC World Service is to enable

“individuals to participate in the global debate on significant international issues.”

Under the BBC strategy “Delivering Creative Future in Global News”, a priority for the World Service is to access

“a number of information-poor language markets with a clear need for independent information”.

The World Service operating agreement also prioritises audiences

“which have the least access to news”.

Surely, nowhere qualifies more under that criterion than North Korea.

The two objections we have had from the BBC are, first, that

“an insignificant percentage of the population”

would be reached, but that can be discounted. In 2005, 18% of people had listened to a foreign radio. In 2009, the Asia Foundation collated information suggesting that 20% were listening to one. In 2012, InterMedia found that nearly half the respondents from a North Korean defector community owned radios and that,

“many radio listeners…modify fixed-dial radios in order to receive unsanctioned channels.”

The second concern raised about the BBC broadcasting into North Korea was that South Korean regulations would prevent broadcasting from South Korea. However, Voice of America broadcasts its Korean language service from a transmitter in South Korea, and there are other options involving transmitters elsewhere in Asia. Therefore, the commission—this is one of our strongest recommendations—urges the Government and the BBC to reconsider the issue and to invest in establishing a BBC Korean service and in training exiled North Koreans as reporters and producers, as well as to take on other staff positions in such a service.

Oral Answers to Questions

John Glen Excerpts

Tuesday 3rd September 2013 Commons Chamber

[Sarah Newton (Truro and Falmouth) (Con)]

1. What recent assessment he has made of the situation in Syria.

[John Glen (Salisbury) (Con)]

11. What recent assessment he has made of the situation in Syria.

[Karl MᶜCartney (Lincoln) (Con)]

12. What recent assessment he has made of the situation in Syria.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Hague]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The United Kingdom’s total funding for humanitarian purposes in Syria and the region is now £348 million. That is the largest total sum that the UK has ever committed to a single crisis. UK aid is funding food for more than 280,000 people a month, and drinking water for almost a million people.

My hon. Friend also mentioned protection. The package of chemical weapons protective equipment that I announced to the House just before the summer break has now arrived in the region. It includes 5,000 escape hoods, detector paper, and a stock of nerve agent pre-treatment tablets.

[John Glen]

Given that enormous commitment to aid, will the Foreign Secretary applaud the efforts of others such as Michael Bates in the other place, who last weekend completed a 518-mile walk from London to Derry in aid of Syria’s children, raising more than £35,000 for the cause? Does not the record of aid and diplomacy achieved by the Government and the people in it suggest that the Government’s willingness to consider military action was expressed reluctantly, and alongside an enormous commitment—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I do not wish to be discourteous, but we must make progress. Questions must be much pithier.

GCHQ

John Glen Excerpts

Monday 10th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

They do have the tools. I said earlier that those tools need updating over time. I did not refer in my statement to the discussions on a communications data Bill, but there is a strong case for updating the tools we have at our disposal. Means of communication are changing more rapidly than at any time in the history of the world, which means that the range and nature of threats change. We must be careful to do that work, and the whole House should give fair consideration to such proposals.

[John Glen (Salisbury) (Con)]

My right hon. Friend has confirmed that the Government and the intelligence services have no interest in random snooping into the private affairs of British citizens, but can he confirm to the House that, when well-founded security risks are identified, sufficient powers and freedoms are in place to undertake the investigations that may be necessary, or is it his opinion that enhanced freedoms and powers are now required?

[Mr Hague]

In my experience, we are well-equipped to conduct necessary investigations, but I return to the answer I gave to the previous question. There will be a constant need to update what we are able to do, without being diverted from the basic principle of ensuring that our intelligence gathering is on what is necessary, and that it is proportionate, targeted and always legal. Our laws do not provide for indiscriminate trawling for information through the contents of people’s communications. We do not need to change those basic principles, but we sometimes need to change aspects of the legal framework and where we are able to get information from. That work must go on in the coming years.

President Mohamed Nasheed

John Glen Excerpts

Wednesday 7th November 2012 Westminster Hall

[John Glen (Salisbury) (Con)]

Thank you, Mrs Brooke, for calling me to speak and it is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship.

First, I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Redditch (Karen Lumley) for her tireless work over the last five years in the Maldives. I share her passion for the Maldives, as the former President Nasheed went to school just outside my constituency. A considerable number of my constituents knew him during the many years he spent as a freedom fighter seeking democracy in his country.

I want today to reflect on my great sadness when this coup—it was indeed a coup—happened in February. Eighteen months ago, the former President was described by our Prime Minister as his “new best friend”, and yet, frustratingly, we cannot seem to do anything now to reflect the reality of what is happening on the ground in the Maldives.

Let us be clear that this issue is not just about one round of elections, but securing democracy for the long term and establishing the rule of law. Public bodies need to act in accordance with constitutional rights. In the Maldives, the rule of law was badly compromised before 2008 under the Gayoom regime. The judicial services commission published very weak evaluation criteria for the judges, and swore in the former President Gayoom’s appointed judges to permanent positions as supreme court members before the legislature could set down its criteria.

Let us be clear and get this on the record unambiguously: those judges included judges who had been found guilty of misconduct, judges with cases pending against them and judges who were under criminal investigation. Cases that were never brought to completion or sentencing include: Abdulla Hameed, brother of the deposed President Gayoom, for fraud; Algeen Abdul Gayoom, half-brother of President Gayoom, for corruption; and Isthafa Ibrahim Maniku, head of the prisons division under President Gayoom, for torture and cruelty. Those are serious allegations, and these individuals are now in the judiciary, judging and professing that there will be a fair trial for the deposed President Nasheed.

[Fiona Bruce (Congleton) (Con)]

I also pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Redditch (Karen Lumley) for securing this debate, the importance of which was brought home to me in October when I met two members of the Maldives Parliament and the former high commissioner of the Maldives, very shortly after Anni’s arrest. Not only had he been arrested, but they informed me that several members of the Maldives Parliament—I believe as many as 13—had been arrested and charged with criminal offences, coincidentally all at much the same time. Does my hon. Friend the Member for Salisbury (John Glen) agree that democracy is a fragile flower that we cannot take for granted, but must work at and protect; that when the going gets rough we have to stand with our friends in other countries and be counted; and that we should do so now for the Maldives?

[John Glen]

I am very grateful to my hon. Friend for that intervention, which expresses extremely well the guts of the case that we are all bringing today to Westminster Hall.

As I was saying, the allegations against the “judges”—if one can call them that—are very serious. For example, the allegation made against Abdulla Mohamed, the chief judge of the criminal court, by the attorney-general in 2005 was that he had asked children to act out an indecent act in court during a sexual abuse case. Such a case totally explains why the Maldives is in such a mess. The former President Nasheed, having secured a democratic mandate, simply sought to deal with a corrupt judiciary. He did so in good faith and with the support of the country. As a Government, we now need to stand up for him and fight for him, so that he has a fair trial and so that we can restore democracy, which was at such an early stage in the Maldives. It is so disappointing to see the Maldives in this state and to see its democracy so endangered, after such a promising start four years ago.

Syria

John Glen Excerpts

Monday 3rd September 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

Well, there are only isolated and anecdotal reports of the use of such weapons—nothing that is verified on any substantial scale. Some of the refugees whom I met in Jordan in July referred to the use of poisonous weapons against them, but it has not been possible to verify that, and they meant that in the sense of small arms at a local level—not that that would be acceptable in any way. We do not have any evidence of the use of chemical weapons. Our hope and expectation is that they will not be used, but if they were to be used, it would be an extremely serious matter, and it might change some of the international calculations about this crisis.

[John Glen (Salisbury) (Con)]

I should like to ask the Foreign Secretary about the non-lethal practical assistance being provided to protect unarmed opposition groups. What level of confidence does he have that we have the intelligence and infrastructure to monitor where that money is spent and ends up, so that my constituents can have some assurance that the money is not being wasted, and that our investment is in the right side of this war?

[Mr Hague]

We do have a good deal of information about how such equipment is used. I cannot say to my hon. Friend or to the House exactly how all such information will be arrived at, but we have information about how the equipment that we have provided so far is used, and are able to check on it in various ways, and will be able to do so, in various ways, in future. I can give him a considerable level of reassurance about that, but there is some risk; that is why we are supplying only non-lethal practical assistance in the first place. As I say, in such a desperate situation, the benefits and the need to supply such equipment outweigh whatever risks are attached to it.

Foreign Policy (Soft Power)

John Glen Excerpts

Wednesday 1st February 2012 Westminster Hall

[John Glen (Salisbury) (Con)]

May I say what a pleasure it is to serve under your chairmanship for the first time, Mr Bone? I declare an interest as secretary of the all-party group on the British Council and as a governor of the Westminster Foundation for Democracy.

The purpose of calling this debate is to focus on the role of soft power in British foreign policy and how it is to be used in defining country strategies. Over the past decade, Governments have become increasingly aware of the importance of soft power. I define that as the power to attract and co-opt alongside the hard power of traditional military and economic means of achieving foreign policy objectives. There is a growing acceptance that soft power is an important component of foreign policy and should be seen as a complement to rather than a substitute for hard power.

I want to talk about how there can be better integration between the different elements of hard and soft power. My impression is that, although different institutions work effectively on their own, they could deliver a lot more if they actively collaborated on a systematic basis in all countries where they operate.

I want to share some examples of Britain’s soft power assets, and then examine the need for the development of a co-ordinated vision for our foreign policy by addressing some of the practical realities and questions that surround putting that into practice. It is important to recognise at the outset that, compared with many countries, Britain has an immensely rich set of soft power institutions, resources and tools. In 2010, we were ranked joint first in the Institution for Government soft power index. In 2011, we were placed second, behind the USA. Soft power institutions, such as the British Council, the Westminster Foundation for Democracy, Voluntary Service Overseas, the Commonwealth Foundation and the BBC World Service perform a valuable role in developing trusting relationships with overseas countries.

[Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Rainham) (Con)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this important debate. On soft policy and achieving our foreign policy objectives, does he agree that a fundamental part of winning over people’s hearts and minds, as we have seen in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria and Libya, has been the work of the BBC World Service in communicating that we have a lot more that unites us than divides us?

[John Glen]

Absolutely. I will come on to speak about the World Service in a moment. All those assets deploy so much of what is great about this country: the English language, arts, education, and the values of civil society and democracy.

I pay tribute to the work—since, I think, 1934—of the British Council. It now works on the ground in more than 100 countries, particularly in strategic areas such as the middle east, north Africa and in emerging economies. It may be helpful to know that last year it provided more than 1.3 million hours of English language teaching, supporting 5 million English teachers across the world. It now uses digital broadcasting to reach 100 million students. In addition, it provides exams and qualifications, and links UK primary and secondary schools, universities and arts bodies with overseas institutions in long-term beneficial partnerships. Despite taking a 26% budget cut in this comprehensive spending review period, it has a clear resolve to continue its core work by continuing to win competitive education and development contracts.

As my hon. Friend mentioned, the BBC World Service also makes a massive and effective contribution to the development of the UK’s relationships abroad. It reaches 166 million people every week—through radio, television and the internet—in 27 languages, as well as English. Unlike the state-sponsored media of many of the countries in which it operates, its editorial independence ensures impartiality and objectivity. It is that professionalism and impartiality that generate trust and credibility overseas. The audience of BBC Arabic TV increased by more than 80% in recent months, including an increase in the online audience of 300% during the height of the Egyptian protests—clearly, it is a very powerful tool. Recent changes in funding streams and organisation will allow the World Service to work more closely with the domestic BBC, benefiting both the UK and other countries.

The Westminster Foundation for Democracy engages with political parties across the world. That work involves—I have done some of it—training party officials to develop their capacity to create policy, to campaign and to fulfil effectively their function as Government or Opposition parties in emerging democracies. That work builds up democratic institutions and understanding. It also generates long-term trusting relationships between those countries and the UK, and the individuals in those Governments and the UK. All these institutions leave a legacy and impact on the individuals who encounter them and inevitably lead many to develop a natural empathy, respect and affinity for our country.

As I suggested at the outset, given all that these institutions do, there is a need better to co-ordinate their work into an holistic vision for our foreign policy. We have to recognise—this is my experience of being a member of the Defence Committee and working for WFD—that different Departments and institutions naturally have varying perspectives on foreign policy and the status of our relationships with countries across the world. That includes the Department for International Development, the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and the Ministry of Defence, as well as soft power institutions such as the British Council and the BBC World Service. For example, the primary objective of DFID focuses on poverty and long-term development goals, but that might not always align with the immediate demands of a military intervention to secure a strategic objective for British foreign policy.

[Rehman Chishti]

My hon. Friend talks about the work of DFID, one aspect of which is education and its link to our foreign policy. We gave Pakistan £650 million for education to provide people with opportunity, aspiration and a life away from sectarian violence. That has implications for our own security—the training camps in Afghanistan and Pakistan were linked to the terrorist attacks in London in 2005. DFID’s work on soft power foreign policy—giving people hope, opportunity and aspiration through education—provides a diversion from sectarian, ethnic terrorist tendencies.

[John Glen]

I am not in any way seeking to criticise any individual player; my core argument this afternoon is about the co-ordination between those contrasting perspectives. When I went to Islamabad last autumn, DFID’s massive contribution was very clear.

Any one of these perspectives—development, diplomacy, military or culture—need not displace the others. Rather than picking one, or one being the lead, the challenge is skilfully to harmonise and develop a single, shared vision for our foreign policy. My experience in Afghanistan—in the DFID compound and then talking to people from the FCO and various military leaders—was that they all had a different perspective. What seemed to be lacking sometimes was a desire to integrate fully different views. If one had a clear development goal, it was very easy to find that goal in conflict with a military objective. Rather than seeing those different views as a barrier, the Government need to work systematically to synthesise those complementary perspectives and refine overall policy definition.

There are some excellent examples of where that already works in practice. The stabilisation unit, which is owned jointly by DFID, the FCO and the MOD, brings together expertise from those Departments with police and military personnel. It despatches task forces to conflict-stricken areas—for example, Afghanistan—to develop political processes, reduce conflict and violence, and provide a basis for future development. It remains unclear why the unit should be taken out of Afghanistan at the end of 2014.

The challenge to achieve the systematic co-ordination of different departmental perspectives on a large scale is compelling. We must identify different perspectives where they exist across Government. That will mean undertaking the difficult task of recognising where a departmental mindset is preventing co-ordination and collaboration with another Department’s activities, perhaps between the FCO and DFID. No doubt some Departments and organisations will need to make compromises to agree a comprehensive strategy for the greater good of diplomatic and long-term relations in a region or country.

It is also desirable to aim for a closer working relationship between soft power organisations and the Ministry of Defence. As the ongoing work of the British Council in Libya has shown, soft power institutions can build relationships of trust ahead of and after military intervention in a country. If that approach can be developed in respect of future military interventions, it could ease the work of the armed forces, particularly when working alongside civilians. Working with soft power institutions and making use of diverse expertise could aid the MOD in defining viable exit strategies, rather than just asserting that those will exist. The institutions that I have mentioned have a more nuanced understanding of cultural barriers and attitudes of populations on the ground and can probably more reliably estimate what will be achievable by military means.

We need to recognise that Foreign Office diplomats, wonderful though they are, are not the only actors in British diplomacy. Although diplomats achieve much for British trade and political understanding, arm’s length bodies, such as the WFD, working to build civil society and government infrastructures and developing strong relationships with emerging political parties, do much to develop trust and credibility where Britain’s historic ties are less strong or apparent.

Our diplomacy must allow soft power institutions to play a more significant role in maintaining mutually beneficial, positive relationships throughout the world. As I have emphasised, the key challenge is overcoming ingrained departmental mindsets and historic positions to harness the complementary perspectives and resources of an increasing range of diverse institutions, especially arm’s length soft power organisations.

We must put in place effective leadership, accountability and co-ordinating procedures throughout our institutions to enable what I am arguing for to work properly, and to define a sophisticated foreign policy strategy that serves the interests of the UK optimally across the globe. That will mean determined effort from Ministers and senior civil servants to put vested interests aside, and the instincts of the budget holder being left at the door as each Department recognises that others have something meaningful to contribute. It will also mean having difficult but vital discussions about our vision and objectives with individuals who may have a different starting point at the outset.

It is only through a determined approach of that type that the UK can maintain its unique standing in the world and make best use of these enormously powerful resources and assets that our great country possesses.

British Embassy (Tehran)

John Glen Excerpts

Wednesday 30th November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

We are already engaged in that work. I mentioned the very intensive contact we have had with Turkey in the past 24 hours—nothing unusual in our case, but particularly intense yesterday—and with the Gulf states, many of which are deeply alarmed about the wider behaviour and intentions of Iran, quite apart from this incident. We shall continue and quite possibly step up our diplomatic engagement with all those countries about this most unfortunate turn of events.

[John Glen (Salisbury) (Con)]

Will my right hon. Friend say what contact he has had over the past 24 hours with his US counterpart and what actions, diplomatic or otherwise, the US is considering to support the UK Government’s position?

[Mr Hague]

We are of course in constant touch with the United States. Secretary Clinton and President Obama have issued very strong statements about this incident. The United States does not have an embassy in Tehran, but the Americans are strongly supportive of the action we are taking and will, of course, reflect that in their wider diplomacy around the globe.

Middle East, North Africa, Afghanistan and Pakistan

John Glen Excerpts

Monday 16th May 2011 Commons Chamber

[John Glen (Salisbury) (Con)]

I want to take this opportunity to make some observations about the situation in Libya and Syria, and to address the wider issue of British foreign policy in that rapidly changing part of the world. Our foreign policy is perhaps seen as one of intervening when we can, but not always where we should. There is a perception that the moral component of our motivation or justification for intervention does not always seem to apply everywhere with the same degree of seriousness. When it comes to that part of the world, I do not see an appetite in either this House or the country at large to seek out theatres of war. However, I seek to discern some consistency, even if the consistent application of principles will not mean that the same action is taken in every country.

Back on 21 March, I supported the implementation of the no-fly zone, which seemed entirely appropriate, not simply from the perspective of seeking to prevent mass slaughter in Benghazi, but on the understanding that all diplomatic efforts and avenues had been exhausted. Walking away when an evil tyrant was about to murder his own people would have been an abdication of responsibility by the international community. At the same time, however, I listened to the many excellent speeches in the Chamber, and the many warnings, especially from some of those hon. Members who are present this evening, who feared that the solution would not be quick and easy. Sure enough, it has proved not to be.

I am slightly concerned about the way in which the debate has unfolded over the past eight weeks. Nowhere in the UN Security Council resolution does it prescribe a time frame. There was a great expectation that the operation would all be over immediately and that everything would be fine, but that was never my expectation when I voted for the no-fly zone on 21 March. Across the House, however, there seems to be a great need to bring the operation to a close, as though the international community’s other weapons—diplomacy, economic sanctions and exerting our influence over what other countries in the region do—will have no effect. I was never tempted to assume that Gaddafi would quickly emigrate to Venezuela, or that his iron grip on his media would somehow dissipate overnight. It is true that he enjoys widespread support in Tripoli today, but there are horrendous things happening in Misrata. This is a moving situation, despite the notion that the world somehow stopped on 21 March.

[Jeremy Corbyn]

The hon. Gentleman is making some important points. All wars have to end with some kind of political settlement and some kind of deal. Does he think that it might not be the west that brings about such a settlement, and that an effective diplomatic intervention from the African Union, the Arab League, the Turkish Government or someone else would be more likely to stop the bloodshed and bring about some form of peace?

[John Glen]

Quite possibly; that is my point. Given recent events, I believe that the notion that we can bring the situation in Libya to a neat, precise conclusion by the extension of targets will prove erroneous.

These operations have significant implications for our armed forces. Last week, the Defence Committee, of which I am a member, interviewed the heads of the three services. It was quite clear, when we read between the half-answers and the attempts not to address the issue directly, that all the services are under massive strain. It will be an abdication of responsibility if the Government do not address that point and allocate appropriate resources. I was very concerned to hear that there is to be a review of defence expenditure over the next three months, as we try to squeeze out more resources. Concern was expressed following the strategic defence and security review about putting off decisions on expenditure until future years.

We need to deal with the reality, and a number of scenarios could evolve. We could find ourselves in a perpetual stalemate. Alternatively, we could have a little more humility about the way in which this awful situation could be resolved, and realise that it will not happen very quickly. We must realise that a change in regime achieved by the rising up of internal forces against Gaddafi is hardly likely to happen in just a few weeks or months, given the grip that he has had on his country over so many years. It is necessary for us to maintain the current posture and continue to develop diplomatic pressure and the role of the regional players. Yes, it is messy and uncomfortable, but it is right to hold the line and to continue to strengthen and broaden the base of support. We must continue to show resolve and to provide as much support as possible. It is also clear that going down the route of putting boots on the ground is never going to be acceptable in the current environment. We acted on the basis of stopping an evil man murdering his people. We may find the process since then rather uncomfortable, but it is not one from which we can pull away.

Some parallels have been drawn with Syria. There, we have seen numerous efforts taken to impose travel bans, to freeze assets, to provide medical supplies and so forth. There, too, the answer is diplomacy and securing concessions one by one rather than necessarily threatening military action. The reality is that each country in the region is different, which means we cannot have a one-size-fits-all policy; we need the slow, sober, determined, persistent and measured policy that this Government are undertaking. We need to recognise that we do not have the right or the means to solve this problem overnight.