Universal Credit and Personal Independence Payment Bill

Johanna Baxter Excerpts

2nd reading
Tuesday 1st July 2025 Commons Chamber

[Matthew Patrick (Wirral West) (Lab)]

At the heart of any progressive society is a simple test: how do we support people when they are most in need? The test is simple, but the answer is anything but, because need is not uniform. The duty of the Government is to create a safety net—one that is wide enough to break people’s fall, but not so wide that they can never escape it. We have a consensus in this House that the system is failing, and people are right to ask how we can fix it, but before we answer that, it is important to know where we are now and how we got here.

Where are we now? We should look at the situation when Labour came into power less than a year ago: NHS waiting lists were at record highs; 3 million people were shut out of work through ill health; universal credit allowance was at a 40-year low; young people were written off, with one in eight not in work, education or training; and we had a mental health crisis, with over 1 million people in desperate need of support. The Conservative party is responsible for that situation, and we are responsible for fixing it.

The Conservatives failed with their welfare reforms. For those who are disabled and want to work, the status quo puts up too many barriers. A disability employment gap of 28% is far too high, and behind that statistic are individuals who are being failed by the system—people who, with some adjustments, could get all the benefits that good work brings, but who are denied that opportunity. It is a dead-end system that counts people out more than it helps them up.

As more people come into the system, they are locked into the same damaging status quo. Every day, we see 1,000 new people claiming PIP. As a constituent in Wirral West said to me last week, many on PIP are in work. She is right, and it is important to point that out, but it is also the case that over 80% of people on PIP are not in work. Some of those people will never be able to work—they have an irreversible health condition that would not allow it—and they have been reassessed endlessly, which is unnecessary and cruel. But others are telling this Government that they want to work, and we have a duty to give them equal choices and equal chances, which they have been denied for far too long. Doing nothing is not an option. We have been doing that since 2019 and, at the current rate, the number of PIP claimants will more than double by the end of the decade, from 2 million to more than 4 million.

How did we get here? The statistics I have mentioned are not just data points; they tell a wider story about the path of decline that the Tories took our country down. It is a story familiar to many of us: local councils were cut to the bone, austerity left public services failing people across the board, health and social care services were stripped out, and we had a cost of living crisis that pushed families to breaking point. That is just the backdrop. The Conservatives presided over multiple failed welfare changes and scrapped the Work and Health programme, which helped unlock support to get people into work. They shut down Work Choice, thereby closing avenues to help disabled people to get on at work, and they left Access to Work in backlog chaos, meaning that many people have missed out on vital funds. The safety net was torn to shreds by neglect, and the system was stacked against those it should empower.

Given that legacy, is it any wonder that people worry when they hear about reforms? I do not blame them, but we need to fix the situation. We need deep and lasting change for our country, with direct support alongside wider reforms, and that is the journey we started when people voted us into government last year. We are delivering an extra £29 billion each year for our NHS to bring down waiting times, with a 10-year plan on the way. We will provide mental health services in every school, breakfast clubs and free school lunches so that we can help future generations. Employers are part of the solution too, and our Employment Rights Bill will give people confidence that they will be supported into good work. We will build more and better-quality homes, and nearly 3 million more households will qualify for the warm home discount next year. However, those steps alone will not secure our safety net.

We cannot allow misinformation to enter this debate. That would serve only to scare those who are most in need, so let us be clear: these reforms have never been about taking support away from those who are most in need. In fact, those people will never again suffer the indignity and anxiety of needless reassessments. The Government are taking action to support disabled people with targeted help, including by increasing the disabled facilities grant by £172 million.

[Johanna Baxter (Paisley and Renfrewshire South) (Lab)]

My hon. Friend talks eloquently about the legacy left by the Tory Government. Does he agree that we need two Labour Governments working together in Scotland because the situation—[Interruption.] Those on the Opposition Benches may not want to hear it, but one in six Scots is languishing on an NHS waiting list as a result of the decisions of the Scottish Government—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Caroline Nokes)]

Order.

Welfare Reform

Johanna Baxter Excerpts

Monday 30th June 2025 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Can we try to speed up questions and answers? No, it is not the Secretary of State’s fault; I am just thinking of the numbers. Everybody wants to make a comment, and I understand why. Johanna Baxter will give us a good example.

[Johanna Baxter (Paisley and Renfrewshire South) (Lab)]

I welcome my right hon. Friend’s statement, the additional £300 million for employment support and that the PIP review will be co-produced with disabled people and their representatives, but many of my constituents are relying on the Scottish Government for employment support and for getting waiting lists down to help them back into work. Will she outline what discussions she is having with the Scottish Government to address those concerns?

[Liz Kendall]

Our new jobs and careers service applies in all parts of the UK—including Scotland—to help get more people back into work with personalised support. The spending review has delivered an additional £9 billion for Scotland. It is the biggest ever settlement in the history of devolution. I hope that the SNP matches our ambition to get more people into good work instead of cutting the employability budget as it has done in recent years.

Oral Answers to Questions

Johanna Baxter Excerpts

Monday 23rd June 2025 Commons Chamber

[Torsten Bell]

I do not want to try the patience of the House but, as I have said, employment is up by 500,000 under this Government. [Interruption.] Conservative Members do not like to talk about that. The hon. Gentleman mentions what British business wants—what British business wants is a Government who are actually fixing the public finances and the public services that mean that when a member of staff gets sick, they do not sit on a waiting list for years, as they did under the previous Government. The Conservatives like to attack the Employment Rights Bill, but stopping good employers being undercut by bad is the pro-business thing to do.

[Johanna Baxter (Paisley and Renfrewshire South) (Lab)]

Paisley jobcentre runs a “Take a job to work” day, where work coaches look for local employment opportunities and take those suggestions into the jobcentre to match jobseekers with local jobs. Does my hon. Friend agree that that is a good example of local innovation in jobcentres, and would the Government consider sharing that good practice across the rest of the country?

[Torsten Bell]

I thank everyone in Paisley who has been working on those practices—it is exactly the kind of innovation we like to see. Under the Conservatives, only one in six employers said they bothered to engage with their local jobcentre, which is exactly what we need to change with our reforms to Jobcentre Plus. I thank everyone in Paisley, but there is much more to do right across the UK.

Disabled People in Poverty

Johanna Baxter Excerpts

Tuesday 17th June 2025 Westminster Hall

[Danny Kruger (East Wiltshire) (Con)]

I shall be as quick as I can. I am grateful to hon. Members for their contributions. I fully recognise and share all the concerns that people have raised on behalf of constituents facing the cuts that are coming down the line.

Nevertheless, the Government are right in their overall objective of trying to tackle the challenges in our welfare system, which traps too many people in economic inactivity and presents an unsustainable cost to taxpayers. We have seen an onflow to both PIP and the UC health element, which doubled in the last Parliament. The PIP budget alone will rise by 50% in this Parliament, to £35 billion. Those figures are not affordable over the long term.

Nevertheless, the Government’s plans are crude and cruel. The Government are effectively proposing to scrap the standard rate of PIP altogether. Some 87% of people on the standard rate of PIP will fail the four-point test, so we are effectively doing away with that benefit altogether.

Mention has been made of the 14 years of the last Government. The fact is that this Government had 14 years to prepare for government, and—in response to a fiscal crisis that they created—they are having to rush through these crude and cruel benefit plans.

[Johanna Baxter (Paisley and Renfrewshire South) (Lab)]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Neil Coyle]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Danny Kruger]

I will give way to the hon. Lady.

[Johanna Baxter]

Talking of cruelty, does the hon. Gentleman agree that it is cruel that the number of people from working households living in poverty more than doubled under the Conservatives’ watch, from 600,000 to 1.3 million? Is that not cruel?

[Danny Kruger]

There were significant issues presented by the benefit reforms that the last Government introduced—again, in response to the fiscal crisis that they inherited. Many of those reforms were very positive in terms of getting people into work. However, I recognise that the axe fell disproportionately on certain members of the community, and I recognise many of the challenges faced by our constituents over the years.

Nevertheless, I insist that the benefit changes introduced some important reforms to help people get into work, as well as significant increases in support for disabled people. Carer’s allowance and disability living allowance increased significantly, and the WorkWell programme introduced at the end of the last Government helped disabled people into work. Some genuinely positive measures were introduced.

--- Later in debate ---

[Johanna Baxter]

The Government’s consultation on mandatory ethnicity and disability pay gap reporting, led by the Office for Equality and Opportunity, recently closed. Can the Minister update the House on the findings of that consultation and when we might expect a formal Government response?

[Alison McGovern]

My hon. Friend raises an important manifesto commitment. I will relay her request to the Minister for Disability, who I am sure will update her.

We are anxious to get on with it. As many Members have said, it is important to reset some of the assumptions that employers have about the capabilities of disabled people, and the assumptions about whether disabled people should be included in our economy like everybody else.

On how many people will be affected by this, I point out that all the numbers that have been mentioned, including the numbers we have published on the poverty impact of the policy change, are static. They assume that nothing else changes by 2030.

While I understand the very correct concern that the employment support system this Government inherited was nowhere near what it should be, I can reassure Members that change is already happening. We are already getting on with Connect to Work and building a new jobs and careers service. I currently spend half my life with frontline work coaches in jobcentres, including disability employment advisers who are anxious to do better and are moving forward with a changed system. We are not waiting to get on with the change; the change is already happening.

Winter Fuel Payment

Johanna Baxter Excerpts

Monday 9th June 2025 Commons Chamber

[Torsten Bell]

As I was saying, we do need to make sure that low-income families right across the board are receiving the support they need. That is why we set out changes to free school meals last week and it is why we will be coming forward with a child poverty strategy in the weeks ahead. I have already explained why the original decision was taken and set out that we have listened. The important thing is that it is right to maintain the principle of means-testing winter fuel payments but to do so with a higher threshold. As I have set out, the changes we are bringing forward today will mean that the vast majority of pensioners—over three quarters—will receive it in future.

[Johanna Baxter (Paisley and Renfrewshire South) (Lab)]

I welcome my hon. Friend’s announcement, because this news will not only bring more money to Scotland; it also demonstrates that this is a Government who listen. The winter fuel payment is devolved in Scotland, as it was at the time of the original announcement, and the Scottish National party’s current policy robs poorer pensioners to fund payments for millionaires. Does my hon. Friend agree that the SNP must now re-examine its own policy in the light of this game-changing announcement today?

[Torsten Bell]

My hon. Friend is always quite right. I spoke to Ministers in the devolved Administrations today to set out in advance the details of this policy and to spell out, for example, to Ministers in Edinburgh that if they want a fairer system that means-tests the winter fuel payment and the equivalent in Scotland for those on the highest incomes, HMRC is ready to support that, but so far they have chosen not to means-test the system—to have a system that is not fair to poorer pensioners.

Mansion House Accord

Johanna Baxter Excerpts

Tuesday 13th May 2025 Commons Chamber

[Torsten Bell]

Savers can have lots of confidence, because the pipeline is already being delivered: solar farms approved; onshore wind happening after being banned for years under the Conservatives; the national grid actually being built out for once; homes being built right across this country, and being opposed by Conservative MPs right across this country. The pipeline is happening, because this country is building once again.

[Johanna Baxter (Paisley and Renfrewshire South) (Lab)]

I welcome the agreement that has been reached today. Does the Minister agree that the pension funds are able to make those ambitious commitments only because of the improved investment environment that this Labour Government are nurturing through economic stability—economic stability that is vital to protect working people, including those in Paisley and Renfrewshire South?

[Torsten Bell]

Exactly; that is what is going on. I speak to pension funds every week who say they are looking to increase their allocation of UK assets because political stability has been delivered—because Liz Truss has been exited from this building. I speak to Australian and Canadian pension funds as well who are saying that they want to open an office in the UK because political and economic stability has arrived.

PIP Changes: Impact on Carer’s Allowance

Johanna Baxter Excerpts

Thursday 27th March 2025 Commons Chamber

[Sir Stephen Timms]

I will gladly meet my hon. Friend and look forward to the meeting.

[Johanna Baxter (Paisley and Renfrewshire South) (Lab)]

I welcome my right hon. Friend’s commitment to improving the experience of people going through the assessment process, as I am regularly shocked by some of the experiences of my constituents. Can he say a little more about how he will improve claimant experience, particularly for the most vulnerable claimants?

[Sir Stephen Timms]

The key proposal in the Green Paper is the default recording of assessments, so that when something goes wrong, we can check back and see what happened. I have had the experience, as my hon. Friend probably has, of talking to people who have been through the assessment and then seen it and said, “Well, that wasn’t me. It is unrecognisable.” That should not be happening, and we want to change that.

Welfare Reform

Johanna Baxter Excerpts

Tuesday 18th March 2025 Commons Chamber

[Liz Kendall]

We are not setting an arbitrary target. We are fixing a broken system, and we are taking action immediately, because we believe we have to put in place employment support, health support and social care support at the same time as fixing a broken benefits system. I always start with people—what do we need to do to give people the opportunities they deserve if they can work? What do we need to do to make sure the social security system lasts? We cannot put that off any longer, because it is not good enough for the people we were elected to serve.

[Johanna Baxter (Paisley and Renfrewshire South) (Lab)]

PIP is a devolved benefit, known as the adult disability payment in Scotland. Can my right hon. Friend assure me that she will work with partners, including the Scottish Government, to ensure that disabled people across the whole UK get the support they need?

[Liz Kendall]

Absolutely—that is very important for me personally and for the Government as a whole. We want people in Scotland to have the same chances and choices to work if they can as everybody else and to make sure people have proper protections. That is essential for us, and I will continue to work closely with the Scottish Government, as I know other Departments will.

Women’s Changed State Pension Age: Compensation

Johanna Baxter Excerpts

Wednesday 15th January 2025 Westminster Hall

[Danny Kruger]

We do believe there should be justice for the WASPI women. We do believe that an injustice was done and that there should be support offered to them. There needs to be a proper cross-party agreement on this, and I look forward to hearing what the Government have to say on it. We were examining the report ourselves when we were sadly removed from office, when the hon. Lady returned to the House, and I am sure that my party would have come forward with a much better package of support than the Government have—because that would not be difficult, would it?

[Johanna Baxter (Paisley and Renfrewshire South) (Lab)]

The hon. Gentleman made an interesting point about individuals having the information to plan for their future. Could he therefore comment on why, under 14 years of his party’s control of the Department for Work and Pensions, one of the major platforms of its work, the pensions dashboard programme, had to be reset? The costs associated with it increased 23% because it basically went off the rails under his Government’s leadership.

[Danny Kruger]

Well, I am afraid to say that often there is maladministration in benefits and welfare, which is the consequence of this vast system that we have. I apologise on behalf of the previous Government if mistakes were made. However, the point is that under the previous Government significant increases were made in both pensions and benefits for pensioners. The state pension rose by nearly £4,000 under the last Government, with an increase of nearly 9% in the last year alone, so I am proud of our record on supporting pensioners.

On behalf of the WASPI women and particularly the campaigners, I would like to reflect their intense disappointment, because the fact is that hope was held out to them by Labour when Labour was in Opposition, including by the now Prime Minister, the now Chancellor and the now Secretary of State for Work and Pensions. Who knows? Maybe even the Minister who is here today held out such hope when he was campaigning. Many people voted Labour at the election last year because they believed that justice would be done for the WASPI women, because that is what Labour candidates said would happen. The broken trust that my right hon. Friend the Member for South Holland and The Deepings so eloquently referred to is very real.

I would like the Minister to explain why this decision was made, because there was no specific explanation by the Secretary of State when she announced the decision. Was it because the Government could not afford compensation? Was it because of their newly discovered problems with the economy when they arrived in office? If so, could they not afford anything? Nothing? No package at all could be afforded—not even a small one? Or was it because they thought that it was wrong and unfair to compensate the WASPI women, even if it was affordable? If they did think that the WASPI women are owed some money, there can be no question about paying it. Justice demands it; it must be paid. Something else must give way.

I end by making a political point, I am afraid. The fact is that this Government have made a decision not to compensate the WASPI women because they are making payments in all sorts of other directions. There are a lot of discretionary payments being announced by this Government. They have made huge salary increases to train drivers without any reforms to their productivity, they have created an energy company costing billions of pounds that does not make any energy and, most recently, they are paying a foreign country to take off our hands a UK sovereign territory that is vital to the defence of the UK. There are discretionary payments available and it would be interesting to know why on earth they have not made this one. They did not have to act in that way, and I look forward to the Minister justifying why the decision was made and saying what he will do to bring justice for these women.

“Get Britain Working” White Paper

Johanna Baxter Excerpts

Tuesday 26th November 2024 Commons Chamber

[Liz Kendall]

I have always been a big champion, including when I worked in social care, of working in partnership with people to get the decisions right first time. That is really important, which is why the Minister for Social Security and Disability and I are absolutely clear that we will work with disabled people in the relevant organisations to get this system right. I want to be really clear that the system is not working. People have to wait weeks on end to get an assessment, which often is overturned at tribunal. We do not do enough to prevent people from falling out of the workplace. Ninety per cent. of people who get back into work after a bout of sickness do so within the first year, but we do not use that opportunity to provide the help and support that they need. We need change. I understand how worried people are when they hear about change, but I think they would also say that the change needs to happen, and we are determined to put that in place.

[Johanna Baxter (Paisley and Renfrewshire South) (Lab)]

I warmly welcome the statement by my right hon. Friend, because giving people the opportunity to get on in life and have dignity in good work is at the heart of what drove me to this place. Does the Secretary of State agree that helping people into work in Paisley and Renfrewshire South is about getting the economy growing again, as well as putting more money into people’s pockets? Will she say a little more about her discussions with the Scottish Government to ensure that they will play their full part in making sure that this works?

[Liz Kendall]

I am absolutely determined to get more people into better-paid jobs in every part of the country. That is the key to improving people’s living standards and to getting the economy growing again. Our new jobs and careers service will look different in Scotland because the Scottish Government are responsible for running the careers service there, but we are already in discussions about how to make sure that our plans meet the specific needs of people in Scotland, including in my hon. Friend’s constituency. I look forward to receiving her ideas and suggestions, which I know she will always provide.