European Union (Withdrawal Agreement) Bill

Debate between Jo Swinson and John Bercow

2nd reading: House of Commons & Programme motion: House of Commons
Tuesday 22nd October 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I have a sense that the right hon. Gentleman’s question is largely rhetorical, and I say that in no disobliging spirit. I do not think the right hon. Gentleman needs my advice, and even if he does, he does not need it tonight, so we will leave it there for now.

[Jo Swinson]

rose—

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Speaker]

I am grateful to the right hon. and learned Gentleman, the Father of the House, for his point of order. I await the development of events, but it is not unreasonable for me to say that, as of now and unless there has been any change, my understanding is that the Leader of the House intends to make a business statement—I have a draft copy—that sets out the Government’s intentions for the coming days. I say that cautiously in case the Government have changed their mind, but I do not think they have and I do not expect them to do so. We will hear from the Leader of the House ere long.

[Jo Swinson]

Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. Twice in the last three days, the Prime Minister has failed to force his bad Brexit deal through the House without adequate scrutiny. He continues in an irresponsible vein to talk up the prospect of no deal. Is it not time to end the brinksmanship and replace it with some statesmanship; to seriously and respectfully engage with our European friends to secure an extension to article 50 to enable the House to pass legislation for a people’s vote; or, if he prefers, to allow proper scrutiny of his Bill or to call a general election? All of those things require a decent extension to article 50: he should be a statesman and go and secure it.

[Mr Speaker]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady.

Prime Minister’s Statement

Debate between Jo Swinson and John Bercow

Saturday 19th October 2019 Commons Chamber

[Jo Swinson (East Dunbartonshire) (LD)]

The Prime Minister’s deal removes protections on workers’ rights. It puts a border—[Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. We have all agreed recently on the importance of mutual respect. The leader of the Liberal Democrats is entitled to be heard and, believe me, she will not, under any circumstances, be shouted down.

[Jo Swinson]

The Prime Minister’s deal removes protections on workers’ rights. It puts a border down the Irish sea and, according to the Government’s own analysis, will damage our economy on a scale greater than the financial crash. Today, hundreds of thousands of people will be outside demanding a final say in a people’s vote. Is not it the truth that the reason why the Prime Minister refuses their calls is that he knows that, if given the option, the people will reject his bad deal and choose to remain in the European Union?

European Union (Withdrawal) Acts

Debate between Jo Swinson and John Bercow

Saturday 19th October 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I do not mean it in any spirit of discourtesy to the right hon. Gentleman, but I think his contribution was rhetorical in the sense that I do not think he was particularly inviting my immediate response. If he was doing so, I would say to him that I think judicious consideration of these matters is always beneficial to colleagues across the House. Everybody, of course, must abide by the law. The right hon. Gentleman is versatile, dextrous and experienced in the use of the parliamentary weaponry to try to ensure that his point of view prevails, so we will leave it there for now.

[Jo Swinson (East Dunbartonshire) (LD)]

Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. The Prime Minister’s deal was a bad deal, and the public deserve to have the final say—not just the hundreds of thousands who are marching outside, but the millions of people across our country. [Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I recognise that there are very strongly held views on both sides of the House and on both sides of this debate, but the leader of the Liberal Democrats must be heard. It is unconscionable if there is an attempt to stop someone being heard.

[Jo Swinson]

And the people who are outside this building right now will be heard, and they deserve the final say, along with millions across the country. The most urgent thing right now is that the Prime Minister complies with the law, and I ask your guidance. Would it be possible to suspend the sitting for a short time to allow the Prime Minister to go and send his letter, and come back and make a statement to the House to confirm that he has done so?

[Mr Speaker]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady. It is not my intention to suspend the sitting. The point will have been heard by the Prime Minister. I say to the hon. Lady that all sorts of things are possible, but as to what is judged appropriate at this time, I think the puckish grin on the contours of the hon. Lady’s face suggests that she was making a point, but not expecting such a decision. I am grateful to her.

Prime Minister's Update

Debate between Jo Swinson and John Bercow

Wednesday 25th September 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I have heard what the right hon. Lady has said, and I treat it with the greatest possible respect. I am well aware of, and personally familiar with, the fact of the abuse and threats to which she has been subject over a long period. I deprecate in the strongest and most uncompromising terms those threats to her and to other Members. I have received many myself as a matter of fact—I am not complaining about that; I am simply saying that I empathise with her because I have been on the receiving end of many such communications myself. Each and every one of us has a responsibility to weigh his or her words and to try to make the arguments in which we believe with care and, if possible, with eloquence, and even, from time to time, with humour, but in terms that demonstrate respect for those who hold a point of view that differs from our own. I have a feeling that this is a point to which Members will return in days to come.

I cannot overstate the frequency with which I have been informed over the past year or so by Members on both sides of the House, and on both sides of the Brexit argument, of the fact and persistence of threats that they have received. I have previously said very publicly that, in relation to media outlets which have prominently depicted Members as though they were public enemies for differing from the vantage point of those media outlets, that cannot be right. That cannot be right. I have no desire to escalate the tensions and every desire to try to use words that are pacifying rather than inflammatory.

In relation to the Leader of the House, let me say that I am well aware that offensive abuse has been directed at members of his family, and that has been intimidating, and that is wrong. It is not possibly wrong or conceivably wrong or in a certain situation wrong. That is wrong—end of subject—and so is the abuse and threats that other Members have received. The reality of the matter—and I say this with all the force and insistence at my command without fear of contradiction—is that female Members and Members of our ethnic minority communities have been disproportionately subject to that abuse and those threats. It requires nobody to seek to contradict it, because that is the fact. I know it, and the right hon. Lady knows it. We have to rise up against it and to resist it, and everybody has a part to play, including the holders of very high offices.

[Jo Swinson (East Dunbartonshire) (LD)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I fear that the public watching today will perhaps take the view that this House does not take sufficiently seriously threats of violence. Earlier today, we had the Attorney General joke about wife beating. When asked whether they would bring forward the Domestic Abuse Bill now that Parliament has resumed, we had the Government dismiss those requests, and we have had the comments that were made by the hon. Member for Dewsbury (Paula Sherriff) recalling Jo Cox MP and the threats that MPs face on a daily basis—I may add that, today, I have reported to the police a threat against my child—and that was dismissed as humbug. This is a disgraceful state of affairs, and we must be able to find a way to conduct ourselves better.

[Mr Speaker]

I have known the hon. Lady since she entered the House in 2005, and we have worked together on a number of matters in the past. Rather than issue a lengthy reply now, I would like to reflect on what she said. I am also happy to meet Members—either individually or in groups if they wish—to consider further these matters. We certainly need to take very great care in the days and weeks ahead, and I am as sensitive to that matter as I think I can be. Let me reflect further on what the hon. Lady has said, and I will be happy to see her either for a Privy Counsellor-type conversation or in another form if she so wishes.

Points of Order

Debate between Jo Swinson and John Bercow

Monday 9th September 2019 Commons Chamber

[Jo Swinson (East Dunbartonshire) (LD)]

Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. I express thanks from those on the Liberal Democrat Benches for your decade of service in the Chair.

Very often, to those outside, Parliament can appear stuffy and out of touch. Some of the initiatives that have come in on your watch, including the Wright reforms, with topical questions, and your willingness to grant urgent questions have meant that when people talk about issues outside this place we can discuss them in a timely way in the House, and that has been important.

I was very moved by your tribute to your wife and children, because the families of all of us in this place put up with a lot for us to do the jobs that we do. I echo the comments of the hon. Member for Manchester Central (Lucy Powell) about the reforms that you have made possible, including the parliamentary nursery, babies being able to be in voting Lobbies—indeed, your forbearance in not asking me to leave when I brought baby Gabriel into this House—and the proxy voting reforms, which have already made such a difference for Members with small babies during these rather intense few months of parliamentary debate. Those reforms have been truly important and you have been a truly modernising Speaker. As I am sure you would agree, there is much more to do, and I hope that whoever is your successor will continue in that tradition.

Finally, you have been an absolutely unstinting guardian of parliamentary democracy at a time when people feel the need to take to the streets to argue to defend our democracy. I think back to my first term in this place, between 2005 and 2010. If you had asked me at the time to pinpoint the most important vote that I cast in those five years, I am not convinced that I would have chosen that vote in 2009, but choosing you to be Speaker of this House was arguably the most important vote cast for the future of our country and our parliamentary democracy. I am very glad that I and others in this House made that choice.

[Mr Speaker]

Thank you.

Early Parliamentary General Election (No. 2)

Debate between Jo Swinson and John Bercow

Monday 9th September 2019 Commons Chamber

[Jo Swinson]

The hon. Gentleman might do well to pay rather more attention to his constituents in Cheltenham and what they would like to see happen. In answer to his point, of course Liberal Democrats want us to stay in the European Union, and we want people to have the ability to choose that option in a people’s vote. We have argued for—[Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. There were points of order earlier in our proceedings about conduct that was very intimidating for Members and, in some cases, Members’ families. I know that there are inflamed passions, but I just ask Members to consider this: the hon. Lady is trying to deliver a speech and doing so with her customary eloquence and fluency; she should not be shouted down and she will not be—stop it.

[Jo Swinson]

Thank you, Mr Speaker. I appreciate that others in the House would like the Liberal Democrats to be silenced, but that will not happen on my watch, because we are crystal clear on Brexit. We want to stop Brexit, and that is why thousands of people across the country are joining the Liberal Democrats, including MPs from both the Labour and the Conservative parties.

Whether it is votes in this House or ministerial colleagues, the Prime Minister is making a habit of losing. Although I believe that a people’s vote is the best route to resolve this, I say to the Prime Minister that he can have his general election as soon as he secures an extension. Otherwise, we risk the scenario of a general election where we might crash out of the European Union without a deal either during or in the immediate aftermath of such an election and with Parliament not sitting at those crucial moments. It would be the height of irresponsibility to dissolve Parliament at that time. Any general election must be undertaken in a period of calm, with an orderly approach, not in a period of national crisis.

The Prime Minister is playing at this. In his speech tonight, he made it sound like this was sport—like this was a game. This is not a student debating society. This is about the national interest and being sure that we avoid the risk of a no-deal Brexit, and that is why we will vote down his motion tonight.

Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe

Debate between Jo Swinson and John Bercow

Wednesday 17th July 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Further exchanges will unfold, but at this point I would like to say that all Members who visited you, Richard, when you were outside the Iranian embassy on your hunger strike will have regarded it as a great personal privilege and honour to have done so. Although people tend courteously to say, “It is good of this Member or that Member to find the time in a busy schedule”, I do not think we view it in those terms. As I say, we saw it as an honour to visit you. I am going to say to you very publicly what I have said to others and what I said to you: I was struck by your extraordinary stoicism and forbearance, a standard to which, in such circumstances, any of us could aspire but, I suspect, none of us would attain. It really was a very humbling experience. In my case, of course, I had the pleasure of not only meeting and engaging with you for the first time, but meeting your sister and your mum to boot. I want you and all of your family, and your precious daughter, to know that you will never be forgotten. The Minister has treated of these matters already in the most sensitive terms, as have other colleagues. For as long as it is necessary for this matter to be raised, as it has been by the hon. Member for Hampstead and Kilburn, with persistence and passion, it will be raised. This matter, the Iranians need to know, will not go away until mother and daughter, mother and wife and husband, are reconciled so that they can live as one.

I also want to mention what I have just been told by the hon. Member for Neath (Christina Rees), which is that 13 of her constituents, 13 wonderful women, who, it is said, wholly implausibly to me, are of an average age of 80—I cannot see any such people in the Gallery–have made a special visit to the House today to observe our proceedings. They, together with everybody else, should be warmly welcomed. I hope you are witnessing the House at its best, treating of an extremely serious matter, on a cross-party basis, because it is not about party politics; it is about humanity and the requirement for the display of humanity in the conduct of public affairs.

[Jo Swinson (East Dunbartonshire) (LD)]

First, I congratulate the hon. Member for Hampstead and Kilburn on securing this urgent question and on the powerful way in which she has been an advocate for Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe, her constituent. I thank the Minister for his efforts and those of the current Foreign Secretary in trying to secure Nazanin’s release. We can only imagine the anguish caused by the way in which this mother is separated from her daughter, and we hope this can be swiftly resolved so that the family can be reunited. What can the Minister do to bring that about? I also want to ask him about the wider issue of the disturbing trend of Iran arresting people on trumped up charges, with them effectively becoming hostages to geopolitical disputes they have nothing to do with. That behaviour is entirely unacceptable as a tactic. As the Minister says, it risks huge reputational damage to the state, so what more can this Government, perhaps through the auspices of the United Nations, do to raise that wider issue, and to crystallise to the Iranian state and any others that wish to undertake this tactic that it is counterproductive and not acceptable?

Proxy Voting

Debate between Jo Swinson and John Bercow

Monday 28th January 2019 Commons Chamber

[Jo Swinson (East Dunbartonshire) (LD)]

It is obviously a great pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Shipley (Philip Davies), who gave a characteristic speech. I recall my suggestion during the urgent question, when I said that the hon. Member for Hampstead and Kilburn (Tulip Siddiq) might be seeking a pair for this evening and I thought the hon. Gentleman might have been up for that, but he is here instead. What I would say is that even a stopped clock is right twice a day, so while I disagree with much of what he said, there are none the less some good suggestions for progress in some of the amendments he has tabled.

I am delighted to be here for this debate, as I am that we are having this debate and that we have this very good news. I again thank the Leader of the House for her dogged work behind the scenes, those from the Procedure Committee and the Women and Equalities Committee, and of course the Mother of the House and everybody who has helped to make this happen, which is so important.

I am particularly happy that, tomorrow, the hon. Member for Hampstead and Kilburn will be able to vote by proxy. I think she is probably still awake—she has a small baby, so I reckon she is still awake right now—so I would just say, “Tulip, we are so happy for you. Tomorrow, enjoy little Raphael and making sure your constituents are represented at the same time.” Indeed, I hope that this will go on to be useful for other hon. Members. I know that, with the hon. Members for Liverpool, Wavertree (Luciana Berger), for Norwich North (Chloe Smith), for Wolverhampton North East (Emma Reynolds) and for Fareham (Suella Braverman), many more babies are due to be born, and I think this is going to be a really positive step.

One thing I did agree with the hon. Member for Shipley about was the importance of fathers. In the urgent question last week, I was particularly moved by quite how many men stood up and talked about their experiences as dads and MPs, and about the guilt that they feel. I do hope, given that this is a pilot, that that is an issue we can return to as soon as possible. I just think it is not right in the 21st century for us to leave men out of this and say that two weeks is enough; it is not. Dads are incredibly important, which is why we introduced shared parental leave and why we should make sure this applies to men as well.

The hon. Gentleman has tabled an amendment, which seems to command support, about miscarriage, which is also incredibly important. I am fortunate in that I have not experienced miscarriage, but we have heard from hon. Members who have. However, I have had scares involving heavy bleeding. In fact, on one occasion when I was pregnant with Gabriel, I was in the House in the evening, I had just had something to eat and we were due to be voting late on Brexit, and that was when I started to bleed heavily. Anyone who has been pregnant will know how that feels: even though it is not uncommon, the fear strikes that something is going wrong, particularly in the first trimester.

I telephoned my midwife, who advised me to go to accident and emergency, and I went across the bridge to St Thomas’s. It became clear that, by the time I was seen, I was going to miss the vote on Brexit, so I had to contact my Chief Whip and, in doing so, tell him I was pregnant. I had not announced it to anybody yet, so it was not necessarily the circumstances in which I wanted to do that. I was kept in overnight as it happened, and I had a scan and everything was fine—do you know what, I was so delighted that that was the case—and the rest of the pregnancy was good, but that is a not uncommon experience. It is not one where a proxy vote would necessarily made a difference, but I share that because these are the types of experiences that people have when they are pregnant.

I know there will be so many other experiences like that that others have had, which is why a modern workplace ought to be able to accommodate and understand the types of things that people are going through. Of course it did not help that I inevitably received criticism from constituents for not having voted in that Division. I said that I was unwell, but that was not good enough and people still said that I should have been there. If someone has not announced she is pregnant, and in particular if she is worried about having a miscarriage, she really does not want to suddenly tell the world about it.

I hope that we will in future be able to extend this provision to other categories. My right hon. Friend the Member for Twickenham (Sir Vince Cable) has spoken movingly about his first time in Parliament when he was caring for his terminally ill first wife, and others have had similar experiences. In the future, bereavement and other circumstances should be covered, so that this place can be a genuinely modern Parliament.

[Mr Speaker]

It would help if colleagues could shorten their speeches somewhat, but I am guided by colleagues.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jo Swinson and John Bercow

Tuesday 22nd January 2019 Commons Chamber

[Jo Swinson (East Dunbartonshire) (LD)]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

We are over time, but we cannot proceed without hearing from the hon. Lady.

[Jo Swinson]

Thank you, Mr Speaker. Does the Minister agree that climate change is a strategic threat to our prosperity and security? If so, why is it no longer mentioned in the 28 objectives in his departmental plan?

Proxy Voting

Debate between Jo Swinson and John Bercow

Tuesday 22nd January 2019 Commons Chamber

[The Leader of the House of Commons (Andrea Leadsom)]

I am grateful for the opportunity to respond to this urgent question. I thank the hon. Member for East Dunbartonshire (Jo Swinson) for her question. I have great respect for her, particularly for her invaluable work on the steering group to establish the Independent Complaints and Grievance Policy. She has also been a strong voice on the issue of proxy voting and I know that many of us enjoyed seeing her in her place during the previous debate on this matter with baby Gabriel.

I am also delighted that the hon. Member for Hampstead and Kilburn (Tulip Siddiq) welcomed a new baby boy, Raphael, on Thursday. I am sure that the whole House will want to join me in sending our very best wishes. There are a number of Members right across the House who are expecting babies in the coming months and so I know that this matter is, quite rightly, of huge importance to many.

I profoundly believe that all new parents should be able to spend uninterrupted time with their new baby. That is vital both for the physical and mental wellbeing of parents and their babies. Working to give every baby the best start in life has been a passion of mine for many years, and during this time I have had the pleasure of working closely with many hon. and right hon. Members across the House.

I was delighted that the Prime Minister asked me to chair a cross-Government ministerial group in June to explore what more the Government can do to improve the cradle-to-grave effects that result from better support in this critical period of our lives. The group that I chair will make recommendations to relevant Secretaries of State on how the Government can improve the co-ordination and cost-effectiveness of early years family support, and identify gaps in available provision. I am delighted to be visiting Home Start and Sure Start in Manchester this Friday with the hon. Member for Manchester Central (Lucy Powell) to hear directly from parents about their experiences.

I assure the House that I am absolutely committed to making progress on the issue of proxy voting, and I am truly delighted to be able to confirm to the House today that a substantive motion on proxy leave in the case of maternity, paternity and adoption has been tabled today for the House’s agreement on Monday 28 January.

The motion I have tabled will largely follow the helpful recommendations set out in the Procedure Committee’s fifth report of the Session. It will facilitate baby leave for Members of Parliament and implement the House’s decision to agree to proxy voting in instances of baby leave.

The motion and Standing Order changes that I will table deviate in two minor ways from the drafting in the Procedure Committee report. First, the motion will provide for a pilot scheme of one year, with a formal review at the end of that by the Procedure Committee to ensure that it is working well. Secondly, for that reason, the Standing Order is temporary, and in agreement with the Clerks, the ability to make provision for proxy voting in so far as not provided for by the Standing Order was deemed unnecessary for the scheme to be fully workable. Those are the two minor changes.

This is a perfect example of how Parliament can work collaboratively to bring about important change, demonstrating the work of many colleagues from all parties, who have been determined to see this happen. This is a really positive moment for many colleagues across the House. There have been a number of constructive debates about this issue, and ultimately it is clear to me that the balance of opinion is that baby leave is a unique period of time and is crucial for new parents. This is a step forward, removing the choice between parliamentary and parental responsibilities and helping to make Parliament a more modern workplace.

I do hope that the House will be of the same opinion, and that it will fully support the motion next week to bring forward a pilot scheme for proxy voting.

[Mr Speaker]

Splendid.

[Jo Swinson]

First, I absolutely share in the congratulations that the Leader of the House is sending—I am sure from the whole House—to the hon. Member for Hampstead and Kilburn (Tulip Siddiq) on the birth of her gorgeous baby boy, Raphael.

I thought that things were pretty bad when, back in June in the heat wave, I was 10 days past my due date, but the Government’s response to the House’s instruction to introduce proxy voting gives a whole new meaning to the word overdue. In all seriousness, I congratulate the Leader of the House on her work and on getting to this stage; she is a genuine advocate. Those of us who have worked hard on this issue—the right hon. and learned Member for Camberwell and Peckham (Ms Harman), the right hon. Member for Basingstoke (Mrs Miller) and those of us who have recently been pregnant or are currently pregnant—know from our meetings with the Leader of the House that she has been seriously helping to drive this initiative within Government, I am sure to her frustration at times, because she is committed to this issue. However, it is shameful that last week the hon. Member for Hampstead and Kilburn was put in the invidious position of having to make a choice—weighing up the potential health risks to her baby against whether her constituents could have their voice heard on the biggest issue of our time. Nobody should be put in such a position.

I would also say, for the record, that I think that it is disgusting that some have suggested that the hon. Lady was just trying to make a point. She was put in an impossible position and she made a choice. The judgment that comes from all corners of parents making choices like that, and all sorts of others, is out of order. We should respect the choice that she made.

Yes, the hon. Lady was offered a pair—that is what some people have said: “She was offered a pair.” but it is the Government’s fault that pairing is entirely discredited as a mechanism to enable pregnant MPs and new parents to discharge their responsibilities. I was nursing my two-week-old baby in July when I found out that the person I was paired with had voted anyway. He had not voted all day; he had voted in just the two Divisions that happened to be very close—one that the Government lost and one that they won. So forgive me if I am a bit sceptical about the assurances that we were given that that was a genuine mistake, because the result of the Chief Whip’s behaviour—as it then turned out, others had been asked to break their pairs too—was to cheat my constituents out of their voice on one of the biggest issues of our time: Brexit. So some Members of the Government—not the Leader of the House—have been dragged kicking and screaming to this position.

I also think we should put on record thanks to Esther Webber of The Times, whose article suggesting that it was the Chief Whip who was blocking this issue is, I suspect, not entirely unrelated to the date at which this announcement has been brought forward today, in response to this urgent question.

However, I ask the Leader of the House, why the delay? It has been nearly a year—five babies born; three more on the way. Does she appreciate the appalling message that that sends out about maternity rights? Fifty-four thousand women a year lose their jobs because of pregnancy and maternity discrimination, and the Government’s response has been completely inadequate. The charade that we have seen in this House just underlines that message.

The baby son of the hon. Member for Hampstead and Kilburn is five days old. We in law do not allow new mothers to work for two weeks after their baby is born, which is why I am delighted that the Leader of the House says that the House will discuss this issue on Monday. May I ask her some practical questions? Will the motion have time allocated to it, so that it is not possible for a single voice to shout “Object!” and stop the debate happening? What discussions has she had with the Speaker’s Office to make sure that all the preparatory work is done, and that a scheme is in place, so that if the House approves the motion on Monday, the scheme can be in place on Tuesday?

Of course, that does not get round the issue of the voice of the hon. Member for Hampstead and Kilburn being heard on Monday for that vote. Perhaps the Leader of the House might like to suggest a pair for the hon. Lady on Monday evening—I do not know what the hon. Member for Shipley (Philip Davies) is doing then, but somebody like him may well appreciate having the night off.

We have waited long enough for this change. Modernising the House of Commons is a slow and laborious process—frankly, it is often quite like childbirth—so let us get on with it. I hope that on Monday night I will walk through the Lobby with the Mother of the House, the Leader of the House and many modernising MPs from all parties to get this done.

European Union (Withdrawal) Act

Debate between Jo Swinson and John Bercow

Tuesday 15th January 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I know the right hon. Gentleman will not take offence when I say that he was using the device of a point of order, as is entirely understandable in these circumstances, to say what he wanted to say, but he was more interested in what he had to say to the House than in anything I might have to say to him. It is not a matter for the Chair. He has registered his view, and these sorts of issues can be quite properly aired in debate and quite conceivably in discussions that take place with the Prime Minister and other party leaders. He has made his point with force and alacrity, and it is on the record for colleagues to study.

[Jo Swinson (East Dunbartonshire) (LD)]

Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. This result is of a scale that is unprecedented in recent times, and it is clear that neither this deal, nor any tweaks to it, will get through the House of Commons. May I ask for your guidance on how Parliament can assert its authority to ensure that we can give the people of this country a say on the deal to resolve this matter? It is a mess that needs to be resolved by the people in a people’s vote.

[Mr Speaker]

My response to the hon. Lady is as follows. First, there may well be an opportunity for her to air her own thoughts on the situation we face and the suggested way forward in the course of debate. As the Prime Minister referred to in her point of order, that prospect is potentially unfolding. That is one opportunity for the hon. Lady.

The second would be the discussions to take place in coming days. I dare say that the hon. Lady will want to take the chance to participate in them. More widely, where there is discussion about Parliament’s role, what it might do and what options it might have, I think I can predict with complete confidence that the hon. Lady will have a view about that, and that view, which is important, will be heard.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jo Swinson and John Bercow

Monday 7th January 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

From one returning young mum to another—I call Jo Swinson.

[Jo Swinson (East Dunbartonshire) (LD)]

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

I hope that the delay to the full roll-out of universal credit is a sign that the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions is open to making the many changes to universal credit that are needed. I urge Minister to look in particular at the harsh repayment timescales for loans, which led my constituent to say:

“I should never have taken that 3 month job. It made me worse off”.

Surely that is the very opposite of what the Government are trying to achieve with universal credit.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jo Swinson and John Bercow

Tuesday 11th September 2018 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I hope the House will join me in welcoming the hon. Member for East Dunbartonshire (Jo Swinson) back from her maternity leave.

[Jo Swinson (East Dunbartonshire) (LD)]

10. What steps he is taking to ensure that large international technology companies pay an appropriate level of tax in the UK.

Sanctions and Anti-Money Laundering Bill [Lords]

Debate between Jo Swinson and John Bercow

3rd reading: House of Commons & Report stage: House of Commons
Tuesday 1st May 2018 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I want to call several more colleagues and therefore there is a premium upon brevity.

[Jo Swinson]

Having listened to various hon. Members refer to the excellent briefing by Transparency International UK, I should declare an interest, as I am married to its director of policy—the briefings really are excellent.

Turning first to the Magnitsky amendments, I welcome Government amendments 10 and 13, which reflect the Prime Minister’s commitment of 14 March. After Second Reading, many of us felt rather less confident than previously that they would be forthcoming, so I am glad that the Government have brought them forward, given that the issue has been raised repeatedly. I am particularly reassured by the Minister’s confirmation that the lists of people sanctioned will be put in the public domain for anybody to see. I agree with others that that is a very important deterrent.

The importance of human rights and the part that our country plays in upholding them internationally cannot be overstated—they are vital. The hon. Member for Glasgow Central (Alison Thewliss) set out the horrendous case of Sergei Magnitsky and the horrendous lengths to which oligarchs will go to protect their ill-gotten gains. I was reminded, on the wider issue of corruption, that we are talking about not just numbers on spreadsheets, but people’s lives—this is literally a life and death matter. I recall planning a visit to Russia to investigate human rights abuses in Chechnya. We had to postpone the visit because the individual we had been organising it with, Natalya Estemirova, who was from a human rights organisation, was assassinated.

That followed the murder of the journalist Anna Politkovskaya, and last October we were shocked by the murder in Malta of the investigative reporter Daphne Caruana Galizia. These people were murdered for investigating and exposing corruption and human rights abuses. I was particularly pleased to see the launch of the Daphne project in tribute to Daphne, with 45 reporters from 15 countries carrying on her work so that her stories will live on. One of the most powerful ways to send a message to anyone who would seek to silence those trying to uncover corruption is to make sure that what they were uncovering is finally exposed.

The Minister mentioned the consultation that was launched yesterday on Scottish limited partnerships. The very real problems that have arisen under those partnerships have been in the public domain for more than 18 months, and given that we as a country have been trying to lead on this in recent years, we need to be moving with much more alacrity. The hon. Member for Glasgow North East (Mr Sweeney) made an incredibly important point about enforcement. We need to ramp up Companies House’s ability to investigate, and that requires resources. Very good people there are trying to do a very good job, but given that 17,000 Scottish limited partnerships were registered to just 10 addresses, there are questions to be asked about how risk-based investigation and digital tools could be improved.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jo Swinson and John Bercow

Monday 16th April 2018 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I would call the hon. Member for East Dunbartonshire (Jo Swinson) to pose a supplementary question, given that her own question is not entirely dissimilar. She is not standing, so I will not call her; but if she does, I will.

[Jo Swinson (East Dunbartonshire) (LD)]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

I call Jo Swinson.

[Jo Swinson]

20. I had been thinking that Question 9 might have worked, but thank you very much for calling me now, Mr Speaker. Organised crime groups south of the border are believed to be behind a recent spate of burglaries of gold from Asian families’ houses, including 12 in East Dunbartonshire, leaving families terrified. A UK-wide response is clearly needed. Will the Minister meet me to discuss how policing efforts can be co-ordinated across the border to bring those responsible to justice?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jo Swinson and John Bercow

Thursday 29th March 2018 Commons Chamber

[Jo Swinson (East Dunbartonshire) (LD)]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

The same bated breath may be expected to be detected in the Swinson-Hames household.

[Jo Swinson]

Thank you, Mr Speaker. I wish the Minister well with his impending arrival. In addition to my obvious interest in this question, I remind the House of my former role as chair of the charity Maternity Action.

It is now two years since the Government published research by the Equality and Human Rights Commission that I commissioned as a Minister back in 2013. That research showed that one in 25 pregnant women felt forced to leave their jobs because health and safety risks are not addressed. It is more than time for concrete action to tackle that, so will the Minister bring forward legislation to give pregnant women a clear right to paid leave if their employer cannot, or will not, provide a safe working environment?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jo Swinson and John Bercow

Thursday 7th December 2017 Commons Chamber

[Tom Brake]

Professor Childs recommended a target of a representative parliamentary Press Gallery—Lobby journalists—such that neither women nor men should be in receipt of less than 40% of Lobby passes by 2020. As of 6 December, 25.6% of the 246 valid Lobby passes on issue were for women. As a result of my hon. Friend’s question, I will seek the best means of publishing those figures on a regular basis.

[Mr Speaker]

They really will have to do better, won’t they?

[Jo Swinson]

Diversity matters in our democracy— both in this House and also up there in the Press Gallery, among those who create the lens through which our politics is viewed. I am glad that the Commission will look to publish diversity data on the journalists covering Parliament, but I encourage it to implement recommendation 4 of “The Good Parliament” review in full by publishing data not only on gender, but on other characteristics; by breaking down the data by media organisation; and by setting clear targets so that, by 2020, men and women each have no fewer than 40% of passes for the journalists’ Lobby on the estate.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jo Swinson and John Bercow

Tuesday 21st November 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Who shall we have? I was going to call Mr Burden, but he is not standing, so I can’t and I won’t. I call Jo Swinson.

[Jo Swinson (East Dunbartonshire) (LD)]

At the last Foreign Office questions, the Foreign Secretary told me that the UK could not pinpoint any direct Russian cyber-attacks on this country. Today, he tells us the Prime Minister’s comments last week about Russia’s sustained campaign of cyber-espionage and disruption refer only to other countries. Why does he think the UK is uniquely immune to Russian interference, or is he just complacent about the threat?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jo Swinson and John Bercow

Tuesday 14th November 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Oh, a Liberal Democrat competition. I call Jo Swinson.

[Jo Swinson (East Dunbartonshire) (LD)]

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

A strong UK pharmaceuticals industry is important for ensuring that the NHS can access innovative treatments, but there is uncertainty over whether UK-qualified persons who certify medical products and devices as safe will be able to continue to do so for European countries post-Brexit. This is unwelcome, and risks countries choosing to relocate outside the UK. When will there be clarity about the future European relationships for medical device approval?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jo Swinson and John Bercow

Tuesday 17th October 2017 Commons Chamber

[Sir Vince Cable (Twickenham) (LD)]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Ah, the leader and the deputy in hot competition. On this occasion, my instinct is to side with the deputy. I call Jo Swinson.

[Jo Swinson]

Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. Amid reports that Russia is hacking into the smartphones of NATO troops and that—[Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. This is very unseemly. The hon. Lady is putting a pertinent inquiry to the Foreign Secretary, to which I know he will wish to listen undisturbed.

[Jo Swinson]

Amid reports that Russia is hacking into the smartphones of NATO troops and the ongoing revelations about the Russian online involvement in the US election, what is the Foreign Secretary’s assessment of the cyber threat posed to this country by Russia and what are his Government doing about it?

Consumer Rights Bill

Debate between Jo Swinson and John Bercow

Monday 9th March 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills (Jo Swinson)]

I beg to move, That this House agrees with Lords amendment 12J.

[Mr Speaker]

With this it will be convenient to debate the following:

Lords amendments 12K to 12P.

Lords amendment 12Q and amendment (a) thereto.

Lords amendments 12R and 12S.

[Jo Swinson]

It is a veritable alphabet soup of amendments, Mr Speaker.

On 24 February in the other place, the Government agreed with amendments tabled by Lord Moynihan to introduce light-touch regulation of the online secondary ticketing market, alongside a statutory review of the market. The Bill has therefore returned to us for further consideration. It sets out a simple, modern framework of consumer rights that will promote growth through confident consumers driving innovation and more competitive markets. Consumers, knowing their rights are protected if things go wrong, will have greater confidence to take up new products and switch suppliers, which will help to create a competitive and thriving economy.

The Bill contains important new protections for consumers alongside measures to lower regulatory burdens for business. All this together will make markets work better, which is good for consumers, good for business and therefore good for growth. It will have an impact across all sectors of the economy and address many of the concerns we hear daily in our own constituencies.

Chapter 1 gives consumers a new right to a refund on faulty goods within 30 days. Chapter 2 protects consumers in law for the first time when they buy digital content, while schedule 5 means business will get more notice of routine inspections by trading standards. These represent an important package of reforms that businesses and consumer groups have been waiting for and preparing for. Once the Bill receives Royal Assent, we will alert business to the forthcoming changes well ahead of the Act coming into force.

Since December, there has been one outstanding issue to resolve before the Bill can be sent for Royal Assent—how to address issues in the online secondary ticketing market. This is the market where fans sell tickets they can no longer use to fans who missed out on tickets the first time round. It is a much safer and more convenient environment for fans to buy and sell tickets than dealing with shady individuals in the backstreets around venues.

There are some concerns, however, about how this relatively young market is working, as I explained when we last considered this issue in January. I know that many hon. Members have been following this area very closely, and I appreciate the keen interest in this issue. I know that several members of the all-party parliamentary group and of the Select Committee on Culture, Media and Sport are in their places today, and I pay tribute to their extensive work on this issue over a number of years.

The Competition and Markets Authority has also been active in this area. I warmly welcome its announcement last week that it has secured further protection for consumers. This work makes an important contribution to our parliamentary debates. To deal with them, there has been general agreement across the House on two central points: we agree on the importance of a safe and secure environment for fans to buy and sell tickets; and we agree on the need for event organisers, the marketplaces themselves and enforcers to play their part in combating fraudulent practices in the resale market.

We were not, however, able to support an amendment made by the House of Lords in November. While that amendment aimed to increase transparency in the market, we were concerned about privacy and unintended consequences for the secondary market. We did not think that that amendment would allow the secondary market to continue to thrive or to be a proportionate and appropriate response to concerns that had been raised. Since December, we have been working intensively with all the relevant stakeholders to see if a compromise could be reached—a compromise that allows fans to resell tickets they cannot use, but one that also tackles some of the known issues in the market.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jo Swinson and John Bercow

Thursday 27th November 2014 Commons Chamber

[Jo Swinson]

My hon. Friend raises an important issue. Transparency is key so that investors and indeed customers are able to look at such matters and hold companies to account. We have introduced a requirement for a strategic report, which means that human rights need to be reported on, and further non-financial reporting will be helpful. Of course, the measures in the Modern Slavery Bill will make the UK a world leader in this area.

[Mr Speaker]

Very briefly—Fiona Mactaggart.

[Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab)]

I am very grateful for the measures in the Modern Slavery Bill. Will the Minister meet companies to make sure that they understand their responsibilities, because the Bill could end this exploitation of workers in UK supply chains?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jo Swinson and John Bercow

Thursday 20th November 2014 Commons Chamber

[Jo Swinson]

The hon. Lady raises the issue of seafarers, which has been raised by other hon. Members. I know that my predecessor, when I was on maternity leave, was dealing with this issue, and we continue to look at it. I reiterate to all hon. Members who have constituents concerned about not being paid the national minimum wage that Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs will investigate every single complaint made to the pay and work rights helpline on 0800 917 2368. If people will please report instances of where the national minimum wage is not properly being paid, we can investigate and enforce it to ensure that people get what they deserve.

[Mr Speaker]

Wow! It is always useful to have a bit of information.

[Julie Hilling (Bolton West) (Lab)]

When many large employers are making vast profits but charging the taxpayer by paying their employees the minimum wage, and when families are hit by the cost of living crisis, why will the Minister not follow Labour’s lead and our plans to incentivise employers to pay a living wage through “make work pay” contracts?

Small Business, Enterprise and Employment Bill

Debate between Jo Swinson and John Bercow

Tuesday 18th November 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills (Jo Swinson)]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

[Mr Speaker]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

New clause 2—Pubs code: market rent only option for large pub-owning businesses—

‘(1) The Pubs Code shall include a Market Rent Only Option to be provided by large pub-owning businesses in respect of their tenants and leaseholders.

(2) A Market Rent Only Option means the right of the tenant, or leaseholder, of a pub owned by a large pub-owning business, to be offered such tenancy or lease in exchange for an independently assessed market rent paid to the pub-owning business and, for the avoidance of doubt, not thereafter being bound by “a tie”, meaning an agreement meeting, in whole or in part, Condition D as defined in section 63(5) of this Act (obligation to buy from the landlord, or from a person nominated by the landlord, some or all of the alcohol to be sold at the premises).

(3) For the purposes of this section, the definition of Condition D in subsection (2) is to be interpreted to include an obligation to buy or contract for goods and services other than alcohol.

(4) For the purposes of this section, the definition of a “large pub-owning business” is a business which, for a period of at least six months in the previous financial year, was the landlord of—

(a) 500 or more pubs (of any description); and

(b) one or more tenanted or leased pub.

(5) The Pubs Code may include provisions to permit a brewery which qualifies as a large pub-owning business to continue to require that specified brands produced by that brewery (required products) are sold within its tenanted or leased pubs—provided that such tenants and leaseholders are free to purchase such required products from any supplier.

(6) The Pubs Code shall contain provisions requiring that the offer of a Market Rent Only Option to a tenant—

(a) at the point of lease, tenancy contract or other agreement renewal, or at rent review or five years from the date of the previous rent review;

(b) when the large pub-owning business gives notice of, or imposes, (whichever is the earlier) a significant increase in the price at which it supplies products, goods or services (falling under subsections (2) or (3)) to the tenant;

(c) when a large pub-owning business implements, or gives notice of, a transfer of title;

(d) when a large pub-owning business goes into administration; or

(e) upon an event outside of the tenant’s control, and unpredicted at the time of the previous rent review, that impacts significantly on the tenant’s ability to trade.

(7) The terms of an offer under subsection (5) shall include provision for a 21 day period of negotiation, commencing from the tenant giving notice of an intention to pursue a Market Rent Only Option, in which the large pub-owning business and the tenant may seek to negotiate a mutually agreeable Market Rent Only settlement.

(8) Following the negotiation period under subsection (7) there shall follow a 90 day period of assessment. In this period—

(a) an independent assessor shall be appointed with the agreement of both parties by joint private instruction and on the basis of an equal apportionment of costs; and

(b) under arrangements and criteria that the Adjudicator shall establish, such an assessor shall be—

(i) independent of both parties; and

(ii) competent by virtue of qualification and/or experience.

(c) if the business and tenant cannot agree on an appointee then a person shall be appointed, on the application of either party, under arrangements established by the Adjudicator;

(d) the appointed assessor shall then assess the market rent for the property operating as a pub with no “tie” as defined in subsection (2) and submit to both parties the resulting sum for such a rent; and

(e) at the time of the three month assessment period, the tenant shall have the right to pay no more than the sum determined under paragraph (d) to the pub-owning business and, if previously one party to a “tie” as defined in subsection (2), shall no longer be bound by it.

(9) The Pubs Code shall contain such measures as ensure that—

(a) the Market Rent Only Option is conducted in accordance with timing provisions and procedures, in accordance with RICS guidance, as specified in the Pubs Code; and

(b) large pub-owning businesses are prohibited from acting or discriminating against any of their tenants who choose the Market Rent Only Option.

(10) The Secretary of State shall confer on the Adjudicator functions and powers in relation to the Market Rent Only Option, that include—

(a) determining what constitutes a significant increase in price, as mentioned in subsection (6)(b) in the event of a dispute between tenant and business;

(b) adjudicating in disputes concerning the process or outcome of the market rent assessment; including the power to set the market rent if the Adjudicator deems the process or decision to have been flawed; and

(c) receiving, investigating and adjudicating in relation to complaints made under subsection (9)(b).

(11) The Secretary of State shall make provisions for the implementation of the following measures in this section by regulations amending the Pubs Code. Such regulations shall be made under negative resolution procedure. The Secretary of State may make provisions changing the types of agreement that fall under subsection (2) by regulations. Such regulations shall be made under negative resolution procedure.”

Government amendments 29 to 41.

Amendment 5, in clause 6, page 47, line 19, leave out “tied” and insert “tenanted, leased or franchised”.

Government amendments 42 to 58.

[Jo Swinson]

I am glad to be able to get on to the debate on part 4 of the Bill, which is about pubs. There was considerable debate in Committee on the measures to introduce a pubs code adjudicator and a pubs code, and I am sure that we will have another lively debate today. As my right hon. Friend the Minister for Business and Enterprise has already mentioned, there is considerable interest in this matter in all parts of the House, and it is important that we have good scrutiny of the Bill.

New clause 6 ensures that the definition of a tied pub does not inadvertently capture restaurant or hotel premises, which was a concern raised in Committee. We are aware of one fish and chip restaurant chain that could meet the conditions set out in clause 63, and it is possible that there are others. We all know a pub when we see one, and we all know the difference between a pub and a fish and chip restaurant, but defining that in legislation can prove difficult, particularly given increased food consumption in pubs, which is in large part the result of the hugely successful smoking ban making the experience much more enjoyable. That is a new way in which pubs have diversified, and indeed increased their income, but it makes separating them by legal definition more complex.

New clause 6 therefore provides the Secretary of State with a power to exempt a particular type of tenant or premise from the pubs code in secondary legislation, so that we can ensure that it is only pub premises that are in scope. For the avoidance of doubt, amendment 58 sets out that regulations created through the exercise of that power will not be subject to the hybrid instrument procedure.

There are two other big issues addressed by the amendments in this group. Our discussions today obviously follow many years of consideration by the Select Committee on Business, Innovation and Skills, which has, along with its predecessor Committees, looked in particular at problems in the tied pub sector—I think that there have now been four reports. I would like to pay tribute to the hon. Member for West Bromwich West (Mr Bailey), who I see is here, as well as to his Committee and its predecessors for all their work to ensure that the problems were heard, investigated, documented and addressed.

We heard concerns from Members on both sides in Committee about smaller companies and family brewers being covered by the statutory code and adjudicator. We also heard assurances, through the evidence submitted by smaller companies and family brewers, that they would continue to fund the voluntary regulation system, which I know many hon. Members feel strongly about.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jo Swinson]

I am being asked to give way before I have finished responding to the previous intervention.

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I appreciate Members’ interest in these matters, but it is a little unseemly for them to try to intervene on a Member—in this case, the Minister—who is already responding to an intervention. Timing is of the essence in these matters. Be patient—the Minister is a most gracious and accommodating Minister.

[Jo Swinson]

Thank you very much, Mr Speaker.

My right hon. Friend the Business Secretary, my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff Central (Jenny Willott)—who did her job so brilliantly during the six-month period when I was on maternity leave—and I have had various face-to-face meetings and held round table and discussion events. I have met some of the individuals who have been through the PICAS and PIRRS— pubs independent conciliation and arbitration system and pubs independent rent review scheme—processes. We have had those meetings face to face. There has been significant correspondence—reams and reams of correspondence—between me, as Minister, but even more so, in terms of the level of detail and volume, between my officials and these companies and campaign groups. I therefore do not think that the hon. Member for Pudsey can suggest that there has not been consultation. Equally, it would be impossible for me to stand here and say that everybody is entirely happy with these proposals; that was never going to be possible. I am sure that even the BIS Committee would recognise that there are very strong views on this issue, often in contradictory directions. We are trying to find the right way forward that best protects tenants while not imposing unnecessary burdens on businesses.

I now give way to the hon. Member for Burton (Andrew Griffiths).

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jo Swinson and John Bercow

Thursday 3rd July 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I call Minister Jo Swinson. Welcome back, Minister.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Women and Equalities (Jo Swinson)]

Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. It is good to be back. May I place on the record my thanks to my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff Central (Jenny Willott) for the fantastic job she did in covering my maternity leave?

The full-time pay gap has now been almost eliminated for women under the age of 40, but we must close the gap across all ages and for part-time workers. We are promoting transparency through the “Think, Act, Report” initiative. As the pay gap is partly driven by the different sectors and jobs in which men and women work, we are encouraging girls and young women to consider a wider range of careers through the “Your Life” initiative.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jo Swinson and John Bercow

Thursday 5th December 2013 Commons Chamber

[Jo Swinson]

My hon. Friend makes an important and powerful point. We want to ensure job security by having falling unemployment and a growing economy. That is exactly what the Government are delivering. [Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. It is a bit unsatisfactory if one Minister is heckling another. You yourself, Mr Hancock, are undergoing an apprenticeship to become a statesman, but I think there are some years to run.

[Alex Cunningham (Stockton North) (Lab)]

20. Hundreds of workers across north-east England joined the millions across the country in fearing for their future when npower decided last week to export hundreds of jobs to India and force Thornaby-based workers to travel to a new location nearly an hour away. Does the Minister now understand why half the working population fear for their jobs and feel insecure? What is she going to do about it?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jo Swinson and John Bercow

Thursday 31st October 2013 Commons Chamber

[Jo Swinson]

I certainly agree that child care is an absolutely key element for many women making their way in business and, indeed, in other careers, but I do not agree that making an uncosted proposal that all schools should suddenly provide such wraparound child care without providing the means to do it is a sensible way forward. Instead, the Government are making it easier for childminders to set up in business, breaking down the barriers, and introducing £1,200 per child per year of tax reliefs on the money that parents spend on child care.

[Mr Speaker]

I call Dr Thérèse Coffey.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jo Swinson and John Bercow

Thursday 5th September 2013 Commons Chamber

[Jo Swinson]

The right hon. Lady raises a variety of important points, and I thank her very much for her kind words. I agree that maternity discrimination is unacceptable—of course, it is also illegal. Any employer worth their salt would not dream of doing it, but some will. It is important that we proceed on the basis of evidence. I would be happy to look at the analysis I have requested from Slater and Gordon, which I understand did some of that research, because it does not necessarily tally with the figures that also exist which say that 84% of women return from maternity leave to the same job they had before. It is important we get to the bottom of that.

I understand the right hon. Lady’s concern on employment tribunal fees, but it is important to see the whole picture. It is not the case that most women who want to take up a case of maternity discrimination will be forced to pay such a fee. The vast majority of cases can be dealt with well outside the tribunal system. The Government’s employment law reforms have encouraged more cases to be conciliated at an early stage through ACAS. Only a tiny number of cases ultimately get to tribunal—300 went to a hearing last year. Anyone who wins their case has a good chance of having their fees paid by the employer if ordered by the tribunal. In addition, a remissions regime is in place for those who are unable to afford the fees.

[Mr Speaker]

There is certainly scope for a one and a half hour debate in Westminster Hall on the matter, and quite possibly for a full day in the Chamber.

[Simon Hughes (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) (LD)]

2. What plans the Government have to bring forward legislative proposals for equal pay.

Points of Order

Debate between Jo Swinson and John Bercow

Tuesday 9th July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

The failure of the hon. Gentleman to hear what was said does not, in itself, constitute a point of order. However, as the Minister is still here and looks happy to come back to the Dispatch Box to clarify the matter, he might be released from his ignorance before very long.

[Jo Swinson]

I am sure that the hon. Member for Ogmore (Huw Irranca-Davies) would have had the ingenuity to ensure that any such cases received attention in any event, but for the benefit of the House, I should point out that one avenue for highlighting any further cases would be to bring them to the attention of the Justice for Subpostmasters Alliance, which will be part of the independent working group. I hesitate to suggest, although I am probably safe in doing so, that my right hon. Friend the Member for North East Hampshire (Mr Arbuthnot) would also be happy to continue in his role as a recipient for any such cases. He seems to be nodding. So those are two options for the hon. Member for Ogmore.

[Mr Speaker]

I trust that the hon. Gentleman is now satisfied. He does not have to suggest that his ear is somehow defective. I feel sure that it is not. He might simply not have been paying full attention; I do not know.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jo Swinson and John Bercow

Thursday 21st March 2013 Commons Chamber

[Michael Connarty]

I thank the Minister for that reply. We found out yesterday in a press release that businesses are being urged to sign a human trafficking charter. That came not from the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills but from the Home Office. It appears that the Minister for Immigration is taking over the responsibilities of Business, Innovation and Skills Ministers. He is proposing that businesses should sign up to a charter that seems very similar to the contents of my private Member’s Bill, the Transparency in UK Company Supply Chains (Eradication of Slavery) Bill. Surely it is up to BIS to include human trafficking in the narrative reporting of companies in its proposed statutory instrument. If the Minister for Immigration wants that requirement on human trafficking, surely BIS Ministers do too.

[Mr Speaker]

Order. We are grateful. We have got the point.

[Jo Swinson]

I commend the hon. Gentleman for campaigning against this vile and abhorrent crime. He rightly points out the action that the Government are taking on human trafficking. That is being done in conjunction with BIS, but the Home Office is obviously the lead Department on human trafficking. The Minister for Immigration has rightly been taking the matter forward. Both he and I spoke at a conference this week about human trafficking and the risks to the hospitality sector in particular. We will continue to work with business to raise the awareness of this issue and to clamp down on problems in the supply chain. It is a reputational risk for businesses and we must ensure that there is proper enforcement through the Home Office procedures.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills (Jo Swinson)]

The hon. Gentleman is quite right to highlight some of the unscrupulous and unacceptable behaviour in the payday lending industry. The OFT’s action, telling the industry it has 12 weeks to shape up or lose its licences, is welcome, but that is not all that is happening. The OFT also intends to refer the industry to the Competition Commission, and we have given it extra powers to suspend licences immediately. The Financial Conduct Authority will be able to take much more action, with the sweeping powers we have given it to ban products, impose unlimited fines and order redress to consumers. The Government take this issue extremely seriously and are acting on it.

[Mr Speaker]

Good of the hon. Member for Colchester (Sir Bob Russell) to drop in.

Groceries Code Adjudicator Bill [Lords] (Programme) (No. 3)

Debate between Jo Swinson and John Bercow

Tuesday 26th February 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Does the Minister wish to respond? She is not obliged to.

[Jo Swinson]

indicated dissent.

Question agreed to.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jo Swinson and John Bercow

Thursday 20th December 2012 Commons Chamber

[Jo Swinson]

At this time of year, when we remember the Christmas story, we can be thankful that in the past 2,000 years not only has maternity care improved somewhat, but so has the recognition in society of the positive role that women, and mothers in particular, can play in the workplace. I recognise that it can be difficult for employers when an excellent employee is away for a year. That is why I hope that, as a strong champion for small business and as a father, my hon. Friend will welcome the Government’s plans to introduce shared parental leave, which will let mums and dads choose how they care for their children. Of course, that will mean that many mums will return to work in under a year, which will help to deal with the problem he outlines, as well as help dads to spend more time with their child in the early weeks of their child’s life.

On the specific issue, approximately 1.5 million people become parents every year, and we would not want that talent pool to be dissuaded from applying to work for small businesses.

[Mr Speaker]

I think on the strength of that answer there is plenty of scope for an Adjournment debate in which, no doubt, we will hear about the Nordic nostrums and views about neanderthals from the hon. Member for Huddersfield (Mr Sheerman), who was scarcely able to contain himself a moment ago.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jo Swinson and John Bercow

Thursday 18th October 2012 Commons Chamber

[Jo Swinson]

I am not convinced that I am the best-placed person to talk about one nation Toryism, but I can reassure the hon. Gentleman that the cost of the cut to the top rate of tax is dwarfed by the large amount of money that we are putting in to the tax cut for people on low incomes. Sixty per cent. of gainers from that are women.

[Mr Speaker]

Order. The Minister has interpreted the question liberally and democratically, as one might have expected.

Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Bill

Debate between Jo Swinson and John Bercow

Wednesday 17th October 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills (Jo Swinson)]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

[Mr Speaker]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

New clause 1—Removal of requirement for protected disclosures to be made in good faith—

‘The Employment Rights Act 1996 is amended as follows:

‘(1) Omit “in good faith”—

(a) in section 43C (Disclosures qualifying for protection), in subsection (1),

(b) in section 43E (Disclosure to Minister of the Crown), in paragraph (b), and

(c) in section 43F (Disclosure to prescribed person), in subsection (1)(a).

(2) Omit “makes the disclosure in good faith,

(b) he”—

(a) in section 43G (Disclosure in other cases), in subsection (1), and

(b) in section 43H (Disclosure of exceptionally serious failure), in subsection (1).’.

New clause 2—Duty on employers to prevent detriment caused by others to workers who have made protected disclosures—

‘(1) The Secretary of State shall make regulations requiring an employer, where a worker has made a protected disclosure under section 43A of the Employment Rights Act 1996, to take reasonable steps to ensure that the worker is not subjected to any detriment by any act, or any deliberate failure to act, by a person other than his employer done on the ground that worker has made the disclosure.

(2) Regulations under this section—

(a) are to be made by statutory instrument, and

(b) are not to be made unless a draft of the instrument has been laid before, and approved by a resolution of, each House of Parliament.’.

Amendment 80, in clause 7, page 4, line 13, at end insert—

‘(1) Prior to the commencement of this section, the Secretary of State shall carry out an impact assessment into the effect of the introduction of proposed fees for the employment tribunal system and the impact this will have on the effectiveness of ACAS conciliation proceedings.’.

Government amendments 6 and 7.

Amendment 51, page 5, line 43, at end insert—

‘(e) preventing an employer or ex-employer of a prospective Claimant from applying for costs against the prospective Claimant under the Employment Tribunal Rules or other measures to provide an incentive to employers or ex-employers to take part in the conciliation process.’.

Amendment 52, in clause 11, page 7, line 27, after (2) insert

‘With the consent of the parties but not otherwise.’.

Amendment 53, page 7, leave out lines 29 to 38.

Amendment 54, page 8, leave out lines 1 to 10.

Amendment 81, leave out clause 12.

Government amendments 8 to 10.

Amendment 82, leave out clause 13.

Government amendments 11 to 13.

Amendment 70, in clause 13, page 9, leave out line 15.

Government amendment 14.

Amendment 71, page 9, line 32, leave out

‘in whatever way the Secretary of State thinks fit’

and insert

‘by the Secretary of State following consultation with the TUC and CBI’.

Government amendment 15.

Amendment 58, leave out clause 14.

Amendment 59, in clause 14, page 10, line 11, at end insert—

‘(c) and where the employer employs in excess of 10 employees at the time of the claim first being submitted to ACAS as per section 18A of this Act,’.

Amendment 92, page 10, line 14, at end insert—

‘(1A) The Secretary of State shall by regulations provide for an employer to pay a penalty to the Secretary of State for each period of time (as specified in those regulations) that passes during which an award of compensation under Part X of the Employment Rights Act 1996 has not yet been paid by the employer.’.

Amendment 72, page 10, line 17, leave out from ‘£5,000’ until end of line 4 on page 11.

Amendment 83, page 10, leave out lines 20 to 25.

Amendment 73, page 11, line 47, after ‘Fund’, insert

‘to be spent with the objective of promoting awareness of employment rights and promoting training for employment.’.

Amendment 94, in clause 15, page 12, line 4, leave out from ‘(protection),’ to end of line 5, and insert ‘after subsection (2), insert—

‘(2A) The disclosure of information relating to a private contractual matter to which the person making the disclosure is party is not a qualifying disclosure unless the worker making the disclosure reasonably believes it to be made in the public interest.”.’.

Government amendments 16, 17 and 31.

Amendment 57, in schedule 2, page 65, line 22, leave out ‘one month’ and insert ‘six months’.

[Jo Swinson]

New clause 8 will introduce sensible changes to the employment tribunal rules of procedure recommended by Mr Justice Underhill. I shall say more about the effect of those changes shortly. A number of other new clauses and amendments have been tabled both by the Government and by other Members, and I shall attempt to address them—as well as new clause 8—as comprehensively but as succinctly as possible. As Members will know, part 2 was subjected to thorough scrutiny by the hon. Member for Edinburgh South (Ian Murray) and his Committee colleagues, and all the clauses were accepted unamended.

Contrary to some of the views expressed in Committee, these measures do nothing to affect an individual’s employment rights. Instead, they deliver on the Government’s commitment to giving businesses more confidence to take on new staff and grow. We know that employment tribunals are a continuing cause of concern for businesses and, indeed, employees, and I should be surprised if Opposition Front-Benchers tried to argue that all is working swimmingly at present. The measures in part 2 are designed to alleviate the fears and problems by encouraging the earliest possible resolution of disputes, facilitating settlement agreements to help businesses to manage their staff more effectively, and ensuring that the tribunal system itself operates efficiently for all users.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Speaker]

Thank you. I am grateful.

[Jo Swinson]

Thank you, Mr Speaker. I think it is fair of my hon. Friend the Member for Skipton and Ripon (Julian Smith) to point out that many business owners are genuinely concerned about how employment law currently works.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jo Swinson]

I think that it will do what the Government intend it to do—basically what it says on the tin. It is about making sure that the public interest disclosure regime has to have a public interest test. That is what was meant when the legislation was initially framed and formed. The case law that has come up since then has showed that there was a loophole, and I think, to be fair, that the Opposition have accepted that it needs to be closed.

Following my discussions with the hon. Member for North Ayrshire and Arran, the House may wish to be aware of the steps that the Government are taking in the NHS to encourage whistleblowers. As I said during the recent debate on the issue, the Government fully support the rights of NHS staff to raise concerns in the public interest. That right has been enshrined in the NHS constitution and further strengthened through changes made to the constitution and the handbook in March this year. The Department of Health is continuing to build on the rights set out in the Public Interest Disclosure Act 1998 further to highlight the statutory protections available for those who raise concerns. I want to stress that the Government fully support genuine whistleblowers and want to encourage individuals to bring issues to light, but we need to ensure that the balance of protection for employers and individuals is correct. We believe that the current clause achieves this, and I am therefore unable to support the hon. Lady’s amendment. However, I welcome the constructive work that she, among others, has been doing on the issue.

The hon. Member for Oldham East and Saddleworth (Debbie Abrahams) asked about the level of £5,000 and penalties. The provision is intended to mirror the national minimum wage compliance regime, so there is method behind it, but it will be possible to amend it if necessary.

I turn now to our amendments 16, 17 and 31 to clause 17. Members who followed the progress of the Bill through Committee will recall that the original clause, then clause 16, was accepted into the Bill without debate. The purpose of the clause then, as now, was to amend specified primary legislation to replace all references to “compromise agreements”, “compromise contracts” and “compromises”, where they occur in an employment context, with the terms “settlement agreement” or “settlement”. By renaming compromise agreements, we are addressing any conscious or sub-conscious reluctance by a party to use these agreements arising from the perception that they are conceding or “giving in” on some or all of their arguments. The original drafting of the clause—with the agreement of the Under-Secretary of State for Skills, the hon. Member for West Suffolk (Matthew Hancock)—extended the change of name to Northern Ireland in so far as it related to the National Minimum Wage Act 1998. Having since considered matters further, my Northern Ireland colleagues have concluded that such a change should not be made in isolation and should form part of the wider review of employment law that they have recently launched. As a consequence, it is necessary make minor amendments to restrict the effect of the name change to England, Scotland and Wales in only that Act.

I commend the Government amendments to the House and hope that I have fully explained why we are unable to support the other amendments in the group.

[Mr Speaker]

Before I call Mr Murray to speak to the new clause from the Opposition Front Bench, I have a short statement to make. Nominations for the Chair of the Procedure Committee closed yesterday, and an election was held by secret ballot earlier today. The following candidate was elected: Mr Charles Walker. The full breakdown of voting is set out in a paper which will be available from the Vote Office. I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on his election.

Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Bill

Debate between Jo Swinson and John Bercow

Tuesday 16th October 2012 Commons Chamber

[Jo Swinson]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

[Mr Speaker]

With this it will be convenient to discuss Government amendment 33.

[Jo Swinson]

New clause 15 amends the definition of “estate agency work”, which determines the application of the Estate Agents Act 1979. This fulfils our commitment to introduce a measure on this issue following our recent targeted consultation, which was developed as part of the disruptive business models/challenger businesses theme of the red tape challenge.

New clause 15 extends a current exemption to that definition of estate agency work. Intermediaries, such as internet portals for private sales, will be out of the scope of the Estate Agents Act if they merely enable private sellers to advertise their properties and provide a means for sellers and buyers to contact and communicate with one another. Such intermediary businesses will therefore not be obliged to comply with requirements that are relevant to full service estate agency businesses, such as the disclosure of any self-interest in a property transaction and membership of a redress scheme for residential estate agents. These private sales businesses are not actively involved in property transactions, but offer a lower-cost alternative of enabling individuals to market their own property and buy and sell privately.

Those intermediary businesses will be able to provide a means for the seller and prospective buyer to contact one another, for example online; to provide a branded for sale board to the seller to assist this process; and to pass on to a prospective buyer solely the information provided by the seller in their advertisement, by whatever channel of communication. If, however, the intermediary offers any personal advice to a seller or a buyer, or other ancillary services, such as preparing property particulars or photographs or an energy performance certificate, the intermediary will be in the scope of the Estate Agents Act and bound by its obligations. The Estate Agents Act will therefore continue to apply to businesses that are involved in or have scope to influence property transactions.

The Government have found uncertainty and a range of views among stakeholders as to the application of the Estate Agents Act to intermediary businesses, particularly online. This is unhelpful to consumers who might wish to use an intermediary, and unhelpful to businesses, whether intermediaries or more traditional estate agents, or those interested in entering the market. Stakeholders are also concerned that consumers should be protected where they rely on a service provider in relation to a transaction as valuable and important as a house sale or purchase. Clearly, for most people it is the highest value and most important purchase they will make. The Estate Agents Act will continue to apply to businesses providing personal advice about a potential sale or other ancillary services.

For those reasons, this is a limited deregulation. It addresses the perceived uncertainty as to the scope of the Estate Agents Act and it brings benefits to consumers and to the industry, but, crucially, it does not unduly reduce consumer protection in relation to services that involve the service provider in the property transaction.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jo Swinson and John Bercow

Tuesday 21st February 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Right. Can we now speed up a bit? We have a lot to get through, and I should like to accommodate the interests of colleagues, so everybody needs to tighten up.

[Jo Swinson (East Dunbartonshire) (LD)]

7. What assessment he has made of the effectiveness of NHS allergy services.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jo Swinson and John Bercow

Monday 6th February 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. May I just say to the Minister that a lot of people are waiting to ask questions? Shorter answers and less of the repetition would be helpful.

[Jo Swinson (East Dunbartonshire) (LD)]

T8. The internet can be a great tool for broadening horizons, but as the campaign led by the hon. Member for Devizes (Claire Perry) shows, it can also pose great dangers, especially for children. Tomorrow is safer internet day. What are the Government doing to ensure that children are kept safe online?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jo Swinson and John Bercow

Thursday 26th January 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. May I just say to the Secretary of State that that answer—about which he felt strongly—was too long? There must not be a repetition of that, and if there is, I will cut it off. That is the end of it.

[Jo Swinson (East Dunbartonshire) (LD)]

The Secretary of State is right to say that the design of the scheme he inherited from Labour was flawed. However, by continuing with that scheme for 18 months, coupled with apparently poor legal advice, the implementation of FITs that he has presided over has been somewhat chaotically managed for consumers and businesses alike. I am concerned that a letter from the Minister of State says that if there is no action, proposals may have to be brought forward to close the FITs scheme. What reassurance can the Secretary of State give that FITs will be put on a sustainable footing for the rest of this Parliament?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jo Swinson and John Bercow

Wednesday 30th November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Jo Swinson (East Dunbartonshire) (LD)]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I assume that Government Back Benchers have some interest in listening to Jo Swinson.

[Jo Swinson]

Q2. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I would like to associate myself with the words of condolence from the Prime Minister and Leader of the Opposition.Ten years on from the military intervention, more than 3 million girls in Afghanistan are now in school. With the Bonn conference on Monday, will the Prime Minister send a clear message that the rights of those girls should not be traded away in a false choice between women’s rights and security? The evidence shows that women’s involvement in post-conflict resolution is essential for stability.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jo Swinson and John Bercow

Monday 11th July 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

The motto is that Ministers should look at the question on the Order Paper before answering, rather than afterwards, but I appreciate what the Minister has said and I think that the House is grateful for it.

[Jo Swinson (East Dunbartonshire) (LD)]

10. When he plans to launch the internal review of personal, social, health and economic education announced in the teaching White Paper.