Police Accountability

Debate between Jim Shannon and Yvette Cooper

Wednesday 23rd October 2024 Commons Chamber

[Yvette Cooper]

I agree with my hon. Friend that people feel more confident if they know who their local police officers are. That builds a sense of confidence, which also helps to prevent crime.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Secretary of State very much for her statement and for the confidence that she is clearly putting in her police officers. We all admire their courage and bravery in what they do. Policing is devolved in Northern Ireland, as she knows, but the ramifications of this decision could be far-reaching. Last week, I had the opportunity to speak to the Chief Constable of the Police Service of Northern Ireland, and this issue was part of our conversation.

Every police officer in Northern Ireland carries a weapon because of the high threat levels from terrorism. Their lives are on the line every day they are on the beat—that is the life of a police officer in Northern Ireland—so it is very important that we recognise the threats. Will the Home Secretary have discussions with the Chief Constable and the Policing and Finance Ministers in Northern Ireland about how we can move forward on these issues to protect our police officers? That is critical.

[Yvette Cooper]

I thank the hon. Member for the question. Interestingly, some of the accountability issues are very similar or the same for England and Wales and for Northern Ireland, but there are differences in some areas. We have looked at those and I hope that they will be looked at further as part of the ongoing work and reviews that I have raised. However, this is all fundamentally about how we make sure that we raise standards and raise confidence across the board, including for officers and communities.

Terrorism (Protection of Premises) Bill

Debate between Jim Shannon and Yvette Cooper

2nd reading
Monday 14th October 2024 Commons Chamber

[Yvette Cooper]

As my hon. Friend will know, the prevention of future deaths report from the London bridge and Borough market inquests called for clarity of responsibility for venue operators regarding protective security. Addressing that point is one reason that we are bringing forward this legislation. My hon. Friend is also right that, in practice, security and safety measures require people to work together and require partnerships among them, the venue, local councils and others. It is not for this legislation to set out the decisions for insurance companies; its whole purpose is to make venues safer and more resilient to the kinds of pressures and attacks they might face.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

rose—

[Yvette Cooper]

I said I would give way to the right hon. Member for South Holland and The Deepings (Sir John Hayes). I will then come to the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon).

--- Later in debate ---

[Yvette Cooper]

The right hon. Member makes an important point and I thank him for his long-standing interest in the issue. Those responsible for premises and events in the enhanced tier will be required to provide the regulator with a document that sets out all the public protection measures and procedures they have, and how they expect those processes to reduce their vulnerability and risk of harm from terrorism. The first category is about monitoring for risks and indicators. That might include monitoring prevention measures—for example, if there has been some kind of security breach a week before or some days before—or assessing what the risks might be. The third measure is about physical safety, which might include the physical arrangements that can prevent somebody from being able to take action in advance of a major event to create that risk and threat. There are ways of having those checks in place.

The Bill ensures that there is a new regulator to oversee compliance through a new function of the Security Industry Authority. We expect the SIA’s primary role to be supporting and advising businesses to implement the legislation’s requirements. Even though the SIA will have a suite of powers and sanctions, including the power to issue fines for non-compliance or to shut down events in the enhanced tier, in fact those sanctions are primarily civil. I reassure the House that those responsible for premises and events will be given time to understand and that the SIA’s approach will be to support venues to adopt the new measures. A range of factors will be taken into account so that penalties will be used only to address the most serious or repeated failings.

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the Secretary of State for her contribution and for setting the scene so well. We will support the Government’s legislation because it is the right thing to do. The Secretary of State knows very well that we in Northern Ireland have suffered a campaign lasting 30-plus years from the IRA, where shopkeepers and those involved in businesses took steps against firebombs, against people bombing houses and against car bombs, which resulted in a large loss of life. Has there been the opportunity to consider what was done in Northern Ireland in a voluntary capacity to combat such things? I am ever mindful that it was perhaps not necessary to have legislation that handed out fines.

Everyone wants to do the right thing and if that is the case, it is about how we encourage people to do that. Lessons can be learned from back home. I will speak later and highlight some of those things, but I think it is important that we take all the knowledge from everywhere in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

[Yvette Cooper]

The hon. Member is right that there has been considerable work by many venues and premises in Northern Ireland to respond to the kinds of threats and risks that, sadly, communities have faced through the years. He may also be interested to know that in Manchester a voluntary version of Martyn’s law was introduced after the appalling Manchester Arena attack; training and support were provided for venues and many businesses were keen to sign up. That has been very well supported and the view in Manchester is that it has been hugely successful.

The experience of the hon. Member for Strangford in Northern Ireland and the experience in Manchester is that, too often, there has been a tragic reason as to why organisations have responded in that way. We need to make sure those same lessons are learned right across the country. That is why we are setting out this comprehensive legislation, so we are not in a situation where the biggest venues only respond when something terrible happens—when it is too late and lives have been lost.

We are committed to working extensively with the business community during the passage and roll-out of the Bill. As well as the ongoing programme of direct engagement, we have also updated ProtectUK to make it easier for businesses and others to navigate and understand the supporting information on the Bill. We are acutely conscious in introducing this legislation of the need to get the proper balance and detail right. That is why, as hon. and right hon. Members will know, the Bill’s proposals have been subject to extensive development, and the draft version of the legislation was subject to pre-legislative scrutiny under the previous Government.

Most crucially, we have raised the threshold for being in scope from 100 to 200 individuals. We recognise the need for a location-specific approach because the procedures in one place may not apply to another. We have also ensured that in both tiers appropriate procedures and measures are required only

“so far as is reasonably practicable”.

Those words are crucial to recognising the importance of protecting life and our way of life.

With Figen here, we always keep in our minds that terrible day in Manchester seven and a half years ago. The youngest victim was an eight-year-old girl, Saffie-Rose Roussos. Her headteacher asked the question afterwards:

“How do you tell 276 children that their friend has been murdered”?

That is a question we all ask: how can we explain how anyone could have targeted the event that day, with young children enjoying their love of music and dancing? But that is the point. When terrorists want to cause maximum damage—when they want to destroy our way of life—of course they seek out crowds, but they also seek out innocence, happiness and joy. That is why our task is not just to take measures to keep people safe but to work tirelessly to ensure that people can get on and enjoy their lives, and that we never let terrorists, extremists and criminals win.

Let me finish by quoting Figen. She said:

“It’s time to get this done.”

I could not put it better. I commend the Bill to the House.

Violent Disorder

Debate between Jim Shannon and Yvette Cooper

Monday 2nd September 2024 Commons Chamber

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Home Secretary for her statement, her clear, strong leadership and her swift action. Well done, Home Secretary. That is what every MP and people across this great nation wish to see. In Northern Ireland, we remained untouched by the unrest seen on the mainland, but I will just say this about Newtownards. Sometimes it is easy to focus on the negatives, but there are positives as well: people of all religions and political persuasions came together as one and stood together against what happened. We have to take some encouragement from that.

With regard to community tensions, it is essential that everyday people who have legitimate concerns about illegal immigration are not drawn into situations that become less about the right to display disapproval and protest, and more about violence. How will the Government seek to ensure that those with legitimate concerns are heard, and that those whose intent is simply to disrupt and destroy are dealt with appropriately?

[Yvette Cooper]

I welcome the points that the hon. Member makes and his recognition of the seriousness of, and the damage done by, the violent disorder. He is right that most people in the country want a serious debate about the importance of net migration coming down. We have been clear about our view on that, and about why we need stronger border security. We also need to recognise that most people across the country want stronger border controls, and for the UK to continue to do its bit to help those who have fled persecution and conflict, but they want the rules to be properly respected and enforced, and those who do not have a right to be in the UK properly returned.

There is a whole series of proper issues around immigration that we should debate. Most people want to be part of that debate; the overwhelming majority do not want to go anywhere near this kind of violence and thuggery, because that is not the kind of country we are. Those are not the values that most people in this country have. As the hon. Member says, most of us want to come together to support each other, and to have serious debates, not attack police officers and communities.

Southport Incident

Debate between Jim Shannon and Yvette Cooper

Tuesday 30th July 2024 Commons Chamber

[Yvette Cooper]

I welcome the right hon. Member’s tributes to the bravery of those who were there—not only at the incident in Southport yesterday but at previous horrific attacks. They were called on to show great bravery in the most difficult circumstances, and we should recognise that. We should all recognise that there were adults there yesterday who did everything they could to protect children who were being attacked, and who faced awful circumstances themselves as a result. All of them will be in our hearts and in the hearts of people right across the country.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

On behalf of myself and the DUP, I extend my deepest condolences to the bereaved, the devastated families and, importantly, those in hospital who are fighting for their lives. I also put on record my thanks to all the emergency services—the police and the ambulance service—and to those adults who made themselves available with no thought to their own safety. I think the message is clear for all the families: we grieve with you, our hearts ache with you and all of us in this great nation of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland have all of you in our prayers. Parents—mums and dads—want to know that their children are safe, so does the Home Secretary agree that that must be the goal? Perhaps she can outline just how that can be achieved?

[Yvette Cooper]

All of us will share the hon. Member’s emotion, whether as a parent, grandparent, aunt or uncle, when we think about little children being affected in this way and just how devastating all of this is. It makes every parent want to hug their children a little closer when we see something as truly appalling as this happen.

Having been in Southport today at the football club, the youth workers were really keen to say to me that they were going to continue to support Southport children all summer and continue to organise events for them. They were doing so this morning and they had children playing football. Little boys and girls were out playing football at the Southport football club today, and the youth workers and their families were supporting them. There was a real determination to come together to support families and children, to never let a horrific incident like this stop all of us supporting our children, and for them to be out in the sun this summer holiday.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jim Shannon and Yvette Cooper

Monday 29th July 2024 Commons Chamber

[Yvette Cooper]

The hon. Member is right that this needs to start early and start young. There is a strong personal commitment from the Education Secretary to starting this in schools, and continuing it throughout life, so that young men grow up understanding the importance of challenging misogyny and standing firm against violence of all sorts against women and girls. The hon. Member refers to awful cases from the past. She is right that for too long we have seen these cases and nothing has changed. We cannot let that go on. This has to be a moment for change. It is an opportunity for all of us to come together to make sure that happens.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Home Secretary very much for her positive answers to all the questions put forward. University of Ulster research from 2023 shows that an eye-watering 98% of women in Northern Ireland experience at least one form of abuse in their lifetime. Between 2017 and 2021, 35 women and girls were murdered there, a level of violence unprecedented across this United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. What discussions will the Home Secretary have with the Justice Minister back home about strategies for Northern Ireland for tackling abuse?

[Yvette Cooper]

The hon. Member is right to raise this issue; it affects us in all corners of the United Kingdom. We are keen to work in partnership everywhere and anywhere to tackle these appalling crimes. The truly awful thing is that sometimes, when a terrible murder is looked into, authorities come to the conclusion that things could have been done to prevent the abuse, or the terrible murder or crime. We have to make sure that lessons are learned, and that it is not groundhog day, with us making the same mistakes again and again.

Immigration and Home Affairs

Debate between Jim Shannon and Yvette Cooper

Tuesday 23rd July 2024 Commons Chamber

[Yvette Cooper]

My hon. Friend is exactly right. This has to be a mission for all of us—it is not just about what the Home Office does, although we want the Home Office to do so much more in this area. It is not just about what the Government do; it has to be about all of us. It has to be about recognising that for generation after generation, people have just shrugged their shoulders about unacceptable violence against women and girls. It has just been seen as normal—just one of those things that happens—when actually, we should not stand for it. This is an opportunity for change, and to bring everyone together to make that change. My hon. Friend is absolutely right that those who are on the frontline, seeing that violence in practice, are often also those who know what needs to be done.

As part of the new crime and policing Bill, we will bring forward measures to tackle violence against women and girls. That includes making sure that we have specialist rape and sexual assault units in every police force and specialist domestic abuse experts in 999 control rooms, recognising the terrible tragedy of what happened to Raneem Oudeh and how devastating it was: she called 999 four times on the night she was killed, and no one came. For her and her family, we have to make sure that we make changes. We have to get neighbourhood police back on the beat, so we will introduce a new neighbourhood policing guarantee and new arrangements to cut waste, compelling forces to change the way they procure, in order to make the savings we need—savings that we will put back on the frontline.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Home Secretary for her speech and for all the possibilities she has put forward, which we will hopefully endorse later today when the votes come. As the hon. Member for Vauxhall and Camberwell Green (Florence Eshalomi) mentioned, an attitude change needs to happen in society, and it is important that the media promote it in a positive way.

There have been, I think, 28 murders of women and girls across Northern Ireland over the past few years. That concerns me greatly, so when the Home Secretary brings forward the ideas she is describing in the form of legislation in this House, will she share those policy and legislative changes with the Northern Ireland Assembly? What she has described today can be beneficial for all of us in this United Kingdom, and in particular for Northern Ireland. It is really important that my constituents and ladies and girls across Northern Ireland feel safe, and at the moment, they do not.

[Yvette Cooper]

The hon. Member makes a really important point: this is about all of us, and Northern Ireland has some of the highest levels of domestic abuse murder. This issue is immensely serious, and the safeguarding Minister is already planning to have those discussions, because we should all be learning from each other about what it takes to save lives and keep people safe.

We will bring in new powers on antisocial behaviour, including new respect orders and new action on off-road bikes, which are dangerous and deafening and are being used to terrorise some communities. We will also take action against the soaring shoplifting that has seen supermarkets chain butter, cheese and fabric conditioner to the shelves, reversing the previous Conservative policy on low-value theft, and we will stand up against the appalling violence against shop workers. For years, the Co-op, the Union of Shop, Distributive and Allied Workers, major retailers, small shop owners and shop workers across the country have urged us to strengthen the law against assaults on shop workers, and through this King’s Speech, we will do so.

We will also increase standards in policing, including through mandatory vetting standards across forces and improvements around misconduct.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jim Shannon]

Will the Home Secretary give way?

[Yvette Cooper]

I will give way one more time to the hon. Member.

[Jim Shannon]

One of the issues we have been pursuing over the past few years has been the fishing visa scheme to bring crews in. The last Government brought suggestions forward, but they put a very high ceiling on wages, meaning it was impossible for some of the crews in the fishing boats to bring people in under the visa scheme. Will the Home Secretary meet me and other interested parties in this Chamber who represent fishing communities to discuss a way forward? I believe there is a way of doing it, and I very much look forward to working with the Home Secretary to ensure that that is a possibility and that we have a future.

[Yvette Cooper]

I am sure the hon. Member will continue to raise issues in this Chamber until every Minister has met him on one issue or another, and I am sure all of our Home Office Ministers will be willing to do so.

Let me turn to the issues of asylum policy, many of which we discussed yesterday. I have highlighted them, and I will continue to do so because I am still, frankly, shocked about the amount of money that was spent.

Border Security and Asylum

Debate between Jim Shannon and Yvette Cooper

Monday 22nd July 2024 Commons Chamber

[Yvette Cooper]

I welcome my hon. Friend to his place. There is a real challenge from the chaotic way the asylum system has been run, which has led to the last-minute procurement of hotels and has ended up being extremely costly. Everybody loses out from spending billions of pounds on this system, but also from local authorities often not having time to work with communities or accommodation providers to ensure that things are managed in the right way. Because asylum decisions stopped being taken, there will now be some challenges in getting the system working again, which means that bringing down the backlog will take longer than we initially anticipated. But we are determined to do this; it is the only way to get back to having a functional system that everybody across the country should be able to support.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I welcome the Home Secretary to her place and wish her well for the future, and I thank her for the helpful and confident answers that she has given.

There is, of course, a glaring issue regarding border security much closer to home: the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. This border was patrolled by Republic of Ireland officials, and understandably so as their right to protect their nation is paramount. However, it is also clear that the Good Friday agreement does not preclude the need to conduct checks on the border. What discussions have there been with the Police Service of Northern Ireland and security forces in Northern Ireland to ensure that the open border with the Republic of Ireland does not become a free route for UK immigration?

[Yvette Cooper]

It is a pleasure to get my first question at the Dispatch Box from the hon. Member, and I look forward to very many more. He raises important issues. The border issues between Northern Ireland and Ireland are of course different; we rightly have different arrangements that reflect our long-shared history. But we also have very close co-operation. We have close policing co-operation, close information sharing, and additional information sharing that is not currently possible under the arrangements we have inherited with other European countries. It is important that those information-sharing arrangements continue, and hopefully we can build on them with other European partners.