British and Overseas Judges: Hong Kong

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Wednesday 30th March 2022 Westminster Hall

[Sir Iain Duncan Smith]

In this very Chamber, I and others from the APPG on Magnitsky sanctions called on the Government to sanction more people. The hon. Gentleman has listed two people who are responsible for the abuses now in Xinjiang and what I believe to be a genocide. He will note that I have tabled an amendment, which has been signed by many Conservative Members, to today’s Health and Care Bill—the only reason I did so was to send a signal to the Government—saying that we want the NHS no longer to procure a single item that could possibly come from an area that uses forced or slave labour. The fact that we say we are doing that, and now know from reports that we are buying such equipment, is anathema, and we need to end that as well.

I agree with him that there is more to be done but steps by Government are welcome. This is one step in the right direction; the President of the Supreme Court has made a matching step. I hope to hear from the Bar Council and others that they will step up.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the right hon. Member for Chingford and Woodford Green (Sir Iain Duncan Smith) for all he has done. Today has been another step in the programme of how to combat Chinese aggression. As chair of the all-party parliamentary group for international freedom of religion or belief, I concur with the right hon. Gentleman and understand, as we all do, the importance of freedom of religious views in China, for the Falun Gong, the Christians and the Uyghurs.

I noted that the right hon. Gentleman had tabled that amendment. I have asked questions on that matter before, because it is wrong that the NHS should buy any product of slave labour. We welcome the process, and I see what the Minister has said today as a proactive response. The Government have responded to the hard work. Let us be thankful for where we are going and that we are now on the same page working together. That is the message we should send, and the House should endorse that. I am sorry I was longer in my intervention than I wished to be. I just want to commend the right hon. Gentleman.

[Sir Iain Duncan Smith]

The length of the intervention matches the exceptional nature of where we are. Normally, one would make a speech asking for the Government to do something, but they have done it before I asked for it. To that extent, I am sure the Chair will give leeway to the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon).

I conclude by saying that I unreservedly welcome the statement from the Government and the action today. I unreservedly welcome the statement from the President of the Supreme Court. I hope that others involved in the oversight of law, such as the Bar Council and the Law Society, will respond in terms to what is happening, not stay as outliers, and recognise the important and vital position of independence of the courts and those who practise in them and ply their trade. I say that as someone with a son who is a criminal barrister. The job is to represent people in a free and liberal society that understands the human rights of those who may be prosecuted.

I end by saying that, in a way, this is an emotional moment, because we have campaigned for this for so long. We have taken testimony in the Inter-Parliamentary Alliance on China and Hong Kong Watch from so many who have fled Hong Kong and are now here, because they are unable to live in freedom in Hong Kong, under the rules of an international treaty signed by the British and Chinese Governments at the time. The trashing of that, the ending of those rights, the disabusing nature of the Government’s behaviour, prompts us to ask, how can common law exist in a country that does not believe in the rights and freedoms of individuals? What Ukraine shows us is that freedom has to be fought for, nurtured and protected. Today, I believe, is a step in that direction, and I congratulate the Government.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

It is a pleasure to speak in this debate, Ms Rees—with a revised speech, like everybody else. It is not often that just before a debate starts the Minister announces the introduction of what we are asking for, so that is really quite good news. We all have to thank the right hon. Member for Chingford and Woodford Green (Sir Iain Duncan Smith) for all that he does. I am a great believer, as I know he and the hon. Member for Congleton (Fiona Bruce) are, in the power of prayer. Our prayers for this conclusion and the Minister’s announcement have to be put on the record—we have prayed for those things every day, and this is an answer to prayer.

We all know the reasons behind the announcement. For some time there has been concern about Hong Kong and all the problems there. We know about the legislation that criminalises what it deems to be secession, subversion, terrorism—violence and intimidation—and collusion with foreign or external forces. It is a suppression of the rights of the people.

We commend the work that the hon. Member for Congleton does in her role as special envoy, because there is no doubt that she does it with passion and commitment each and every day of her life, and we appreciate that very much. Like her, and as the hon. Member for Manchester, Gorton (Afzal Khan) did in his intervention, as chair of the all-party parliamentary group for international freedom of religion or belief, I want to speak up for people in China, where human rights abuses are rife and the persecution of religious belief is instilled and enforced by the Chinese Government.

I am greatly aggrieved about this issue. As hon. Members will know, I speak about it quite often, due to the commitment and interest that I and others in this Chamber have. Christians are unable to worship; their churches are knocked down, or they are not even allowed to build them. People sit in the back of churches, monitoring those who attend and monitoring the sermons. It is impossible for anyone to move without the Chinese security forces knowing who and what they are. Off the back of that comes the suppression of education, job opportunities and ownership of houses and cars. It is all downright suppression, and it is suffered not only by Christians but by the Falun Gong. We have all spoken about the organ transplants that take place on a commercial scale. It grieves us greatly.

This debate is about overseas judges. The reason we are saying these things is that the situation grieves us greatly, and that is why the Government have now supported our stance. The hon. Member for Manchester, Gorton spoke of the Uyghurs; I have a burden in my heart for them, as much as all the other groups. I am very pleased that the right hon. Member for Chingford and Woodford Green brought this debate today, as I have asked many question on this subject. If it is pushed to a vote, we will certainly support it. We need to use every tool in our armoury against that suppression, and today the Government have given us that encouragement.

I am ever mindful that the situation in Ukraine has focused attention on where we currently are. It has brought NATO and the western world together. I was reading the newspaper before coming to this debate; I am not sure what credence these stories have, but the intelligence coming from the States seems to indicate that China has said it will not invade Taiwan for four years. It would be better if it did not invade Taiwan at all, or if it had no intention of doing so. However, my point is that the situation has hardened the west and the UK in leadership, with the leadership of our Government, our Prime Minister and the Minister present; it has galvanised the free west to stand firm. We have seen that today in what the Minister has said.

I will quote from the House of Commons Library briefing paper, which reinforces the Government’s statement today:

“Chief Executive Carrie Lam, now has the power to appoint judges to hear national security cases. Beijing will also have power over how the law should be interpreted, rather than any Hong Kong judicial or policy body. If the law conflicts with any Hong Kong law, the Beijing law takes priority.”

That is why the Government have made that statement today, and that is why we welcome it; it is what we want to see. The thrust of our debate was going to be just that.

I would like to gently say something to all hon. Members present. To be honest, the situation in Hong Kong seems a wee bit similar to what the EU has been doing with Northern Ireland. It is making us abide by its laws above our own, regardless of the Belfast agreement, which is not worth the paper it is written on. [Laughter.] I am just saying that for the record—I could not let it go without saying something. The Minister and I share many things, including the fact that we were born in the same town: Omagh, in County Tyrone, Northern Ireland. We share a fondness for that town and a fondness for Northern Ireland. I am very pleased to see the Minister in her place. I digress, Ms Rees.

I welcome the approach taken today. I am so pleased to hear it. I feel encouraged. There are other things we want to see—the right hon. Member for Chingford and Woodford Green outlined other steps that we want to take. In her reply, maybe the Minister could give us more encouragement. If she does, we will perhaps have had a debate where we got the conclusion we wanted before the debate even started.