Business of the House

Jeffrey M Donaldson Excerpts

Monday 21st October 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

Those great words “La Reyne le veult” are what we are all looking forward to in relation to the Bill that will be published shortly. I will set out the timetable for the further stages on Thursday in the normal way, but it is all contingent on the Second Reading tomorrow and indeed on the programme motion. But I absolutely share my right hon. Friend’s concern that this matter has dragged on for too long: the British people want us to crack on, get it delivered and deal with Brexit. And it is not just the 17.4 million people; up and down this country, people voted for parties that said they would deliver on the referendum result, and one party is trying to do that while one party is trying to frustrate it.

[Sir Jeffrey M. Donaldson (Lagan Valley) (DUP)]

We did not vote for the Benn Act; we want Brexit done, but we want to safeguard Northern Ireland’s position within the United Kingdom. When Unionists in Northern Ireland voted for Brexit, they also voted to sustain the United Kingdom. Therefore, in the absence of the kind of assurances we need from Ministers, I have to say to the Leader of the House quite frankly that what he is proposing for the scrutiny of this Bill does not do justice to what the constituents I represent need.

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I am very grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for his intervention. Let me say quite clearly that there is nothing more important to me than the United Kingdom, and that is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland: Scotland, Wales, England and Northern Ireland. I have said many times, and am more than happy to reiterate at this Dispatch Box, that Northern Ireland is as much a part of the United Kingdom as Somerset, and that as long as the people of Northern Ireland want to remain part of the United Kingdom they should be supported, encouraged and helped in that. It is our country; it is the United Kingdom. I therefore hope that such assurances as our friends in the DUP want, and our other Unionist friends need, can be made to encourage them to believe that this deal will in fact be good for the whole of the United Kingdom, which I genuinely think is the case. I hope that we will come to find that we share that view, rather than being in contradistinction one from another, which is a matter of sadness to me and, I think, to them.

Business of the House

Jeffrey M Donaldson Excerpts

Wednesday 25th September 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I am grateful for the spirit in which the hon. Lady has put her question. It is important to the Manchester economy that the conference goes ahead, and it is a concern for the Conservative party, as well as for the Government, that it should not be cancelled for that reason. Usual channels conversations are always extremely welcome, but the hon. Lady has pointed out that there is not a great deal of trust at the moment. Let us hope for the best, but I would not hold my breath.

[Sir Jeffrey M. Donaldson (Lagan Valley) (DUP)]

May I, on behalf of my party, echo the sentiments that have been expressed this evening? We know more than most what it is like to live with the constant threat of attack, and still to live with a very high level of security for politicians in Northern Ireland. May I welcome the general debate that is to take place tomorrow, and say to the Leader of the House that we on these Benches hope that the Government will intervene in Northern Ireland very soon, because the principles of democracy have been turned on their head and the rights of the electorate are being denied? The Northern Ireland electorate voted for parties to form a Government in a devolved institution in Northern Ireland. One of those parties—only one—refuses to form a Government, and for almost three years now it has held the people of Northern Ireland, and all the other political parties, to ransom. In our view, that breaches the principles of democracy and denies the rights of the electorate, who in good faith voted in the Assembly elections to send their people to do a job.

We will also make the point tomorrow that amongst those who lose out when democracy is put on hold are the victims of historical institutional abuse in Northern Ireland, who, having had a recommendation made that they should be compensated for their suffering, are being denied that support because one party in Northern Ireland refuses to form a Government. That breaches the principles of democracy and the rights of the electorate.

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I am very grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for making that point. It is a matter of great concern to the Government, who want to see the Northern Ireland Executive re-formed as a matter of urgency. I note very much what he has said about the contribution that the Democratic Unionist party is making to ensure that that happens, and I am aware that there is one party that is obstructing that. That can of course be raised with the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland in due course, and we will have to have some debates on Northern Ireland subject to the Northern Ireland (Executive Formation etc) Act 2019, and that may be an opportunity to raise some of these subjects further in coming days and weeks.

Business of the House

Jeffrey M Donaldson Excerpts

Thursday 26th November 2015 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

I pay tribute to my right hon. Friend for the work she is doing. This condition affects a large number of people and can have a dramatic effect on them and their families. It is precisely the kind of subject that I would encourage her to bring to the Backbench Business Committee. It will affect constituents of Members across the House, and it is for this purpose that that time is allocated.

[Mr Jeffrey M. Donaldson (Lagan Valley) (DUP)]

We are not against cutting the cost of politics, but when Short money is cut and that impacts on smaller parties in this House, whose Members come here and make an effort to contribute, whereas nothing is done to cut the allowances of Members from Northern Ireland who do not bother to turn up and do not make a contribution to this House, it leaves us questioning why the Government have done this.

[Chris Grayling]

Clearly, over the coming days we will have discussions with all the parties affected by the change, including with the right hon. Gentleman’s party. As he is well aware, the politics of Northern Ireland are complicated and our prime desire is to ensure that we continue to see Northern Ireland peaceful, developing and prosperous.

Standing Orders (Public Business)

Jeffrey M Donaldson Excerpts

Thursday 22nd October 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP)]

I thank the Leader of the House for consulting me and my colleagues. I doubt neither his sincerity nor his Unionism. That said, while he might mean well, his proposals neither deal with the problem they diagnose—even the supporters of these changes to Standing Orders will accept that—nor do much to prevent the growth of other and worse defects in our constitution. I commend, but will not go into the details of, the Procedure Committee’s excellent report. I think there is much in it that the Government could sensibly pay heed to.

I want to set out my party’s principled objections to EVEL as it is currently configured. We do not think for one moment that English voters and votes on English matters should be treated unfairly. English voters have the right to be treated fairly. Our profound fear is not what this does to or for England, which in truth is very little, but what it potentially does to the fabric of our Union. This point has been raised by several colleagues. Quite frankly, our Union does not need any more rending.

The unanswered questions, even only partially listed, are depressing in their extent and significance. Why has it been done by Standing Orders? If this is such an important matter, it surely needs more time and scrutiny. If England needs justice, surely she needs justice secured. How is that done by “here today potentially gone tomorrow” Standing Orders? It is all very well to talk of pilot schemes and reviews, but why is there nothing like a sunset clause, which we discussed, built into the proposals? We are told that this is a critical democratic need for England, yet at the same time something of no great constitutional significance, because it will, we are assured, be used a mere handful of times a year.

Where is the crisis that requires this? The Government have a majority and can pass every law they have support for. What credible piece of business can be imagined that the Government would not bring into law with a UK majority under the traditions and practices that have served this House and all its Members equally for centuries? Let us cut to the chase. If England needs and deserves an English Parliament, let us have an English Parliament. Let us stop twisting the Union Parliament into what it is not. This kind of ad hoc, half-hearted approach does not work in the long run.

I could go into detail about how the Speaker’s Office will be bogged down in procedural nightmares of certification, about the dangers of judicial review of Parliament’s proceedings in relation to certification and all of that, but I do not have time. Others have alluded to the problems posed by these changes to Standing Orders.

[Mr Jeffrey M. Donaldson (Lagan Valley) (DUP)]

On the question of judicial review, I think the Leader of the House failed to respond adequately to the valid point made by my hon. Friend the Member for North Down (Lady Hermon). As currently drafted, the Grand Committee on England, Wales and Northern Ireland will include all Members representing Northern Ireland constituencies. It does not clarify whether those are Members who have taken the oath. I can see that being a recipe for Sinn Féin launching a legal challenge.

[Mr Dodds]

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for that point. It raises another issue that we have raised several times about there being two classes of Northern Ireland MP: those who get their expenses for not doing their work and those who get their expenses for doing their work. There is little parliamentary scrutiny of Sinn Féin MPs and their expenses.

I could go into the implications of EVEL for the block grants and the Barnett formula, which have rightly been explored, but I want to conclude on the principle. There is no suggestion that on matters where Parliament legislates solely for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, only Scottish, Welsh and Northern Ireland Members should respectively have the territorial veto now to be accorded to English Members. So where is the point of principle? Where is the justice? If it be right, as Conservative Members are saying, that there be a veto in relation to English-only matters, surely, if Northern Ireland-only matters come before the House that are not in the remit of Stormont, only Northern Ireland Members should be allowed to vote on them. If it is a matter of principle, justice and democracy, exactly the same principle should apply to Northern Ireland Members in the same circumstances, but there is no suggestion that it will be afforded to Scottish, Welsh and Northern Ireland MPs. We are not being offered that.

In conclusion, there are problems with both Parliament and the balance of our Union; there are problems in the devolved Assemblies that I accept need to be addressed; and there are needs in England that deserve to be met, but these proposals do not deal with any of them.

English Votes on English Laws

Jeffrey M Donaldson Excerpts

Tuesday 7th July 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Carmichael]

I am going to make some progress, because the range of voices heard in this debate should be as wide as possible and I want to allow as many Members as possible to make speeches.

The Government brought forward a number of supporting papers with the Leader of the House’s statement last week. They are helpful, in as much as they give some detail on the proposals, but they give no indication of what they are seeking to achieve and where this will ultimately take us. The question of the double majority was raised earlier by the hon. Member for Beverley and Holderness (Graham Stuart). It does constitute a veto. If we are to have a double majority, that means, in effect, that we will have two tiers of MP. We cannot have a double majority without having two tiers of MP; it is illogical nonsense to insist otherwise. Once we have crossed that threshold—crossed the constitutional Rubicon—we have to wonder where it will ultimately take us.

[Mr Jeffrey M. Donaldson (Lagan Valley) (DUP)]

Is it not the case that we already have a two-tier system of MPs in Parliament—[Hon. Members: “Hear, hear!”]—in that some Members who represent Northern Ireland constituencies refuse to take their seats and yet are paid allowances by this Government?

[Mr Carmichael]

I do not think that is quite the kind of two-tier system that Conservative Members were cheering. The right hon. Gentleman is correct in his analysis. An appropriate change could be made to Standing Orders for that, because it is perfectly—

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Jeffrey M. Donaldson (Lagan Valley) (DUP)]

I congratulate the right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr Carmichael) on securing this debate. I am unashamedly a Unionist, and passionately believe in the integrity of this United Kingdom. What I say to the Government is that their proposal is muddled and incoherent, and will lead to many problems and a very fractious House of Commons, which really should be the forum in which we bind together this United Kingdom. When questions have been raised today, the response has been lacking in clarity. Sometimes we will have votes in which English MPs only can take part. Occasionally, we will have votes in which Northern Ireland MPs, Welsh MPs or Scottish MPs can participate. That is a recipe for divisiveness in this House and it plays to the separatists’ agenda, and not to the integrity of the United Kingdom.

[Mr MacNeil]

It has been said that we would be second-class citizens. Given what the hon. Gentleman has said, Scottish MPs will be not second-class or third-class citizens, but fourth-class citizens.

[Mr Donaldson]

I value Scotland’s place in the United Kingdom, and I will fight passionately for the right of Scottish MPs to have a say in matters that affect Scotland. The point that was made about the Barnett consequentials is very important. We lack clarity, and we need clarity in this discussion.

When it comes to legislation in Northern Ireland, we have different types of devolution. For example, an important issue in Northern Ireland at this time of year is the question of parading, which is a non-devolved matter. We are in ongoing discussions between the political parties, and we hope to come up with a new system for dealing with parades. We need it badly, but it will be this House that will legislate on the new system. What if we follow the logic of the argument that is being made? As it is a matter that affects only Northern Ireland, only Northern Ireland MPs would be able to vote on it. That is muddled thinking. I am not suggesting that that should be the case, but how do we define what is and is not devolved? Parading is a non-devolved matter, but elements of the legislation would be devolved. Policing is a devolved issue, as is justice, and those things impact on parading, so where do we draw the line? That is my difficulty with the Government’s proposal.

The Democratic Unionist party recognises that the issue needs to be addressed. There have been comments about the need for generosity on the part of the English, and I recognise that the question is important to people who live in England and needs to be addressed, but this is the wrong way to do it. I agree entirely with the right hon. Member for Doncaster North (Edward Miliband), and the DUP supported the concept of a constitutional convention. The Union is too important. The integrity of the United Kingdom is too important to be left to a debate on Standing Orders in this House. That is not how we should be dealing with these issues, and I say that as a passionate Unionist.

[Antoinette Sandbach]

I had the privilege of serving in the Welsh Assembly, where the Presiding Officer regularly issued legislative consent motions on matters that were before this House. Is the right hon. Gentleman suggesting that that process could not be undertaken by Mr Speaker in a way that is impartial and fair?

[Mr Donaldson]

All I am saying is that it places you, Mr Speaker, as the Speaker of this House of Commons, in an invidious position. You will have to adjudicate on these matters daily and I do not think that is how we should deal with the question of how to handle English laws. It requires a much wider constitutional debate and this is not the appropriate way to defend and protect the integrity of the United Kingdom. It raises too many questions and, frankly, plays into the hands of those who want to go down the road of separation. Will we look back in a few years’ time and rue the day that this happened?

I do not for a moment believe that the Leader of the House is acting out of any other motivation than a desire to address this issue, and to do so from a Unionist perspective, but I cannot agree with the method that he is suggesting. We need to go back to the drawing board and to find a way forward on which we can all agree. That is why there is a need for greater discussion and I would welcome more engagement with the Leader of the House on these questions.

This proposal raises many issues about how the matter will be handled in the future. For example, a lot of legislation for Northern Ireland and other parts of the kingdom is dealt with by Orders in Council and statutory instruments. We need to tease out how all that will be handled. Points have been made about the Barnett consequentials and this is important, because, as the hon. Member for Foyle (Mark Durkan) mentioned, we have a crisis in the Northern Ireland Executive over welfare reform. We have full legislative devolution on welfare reform, but the difficulty is that the Treasury has made it clear that we must implement welfare reform as it applies in the rest of the United Kingdom or we will not get any more money. How do we handle such issues in this House? How do we, as Northern Ireland MPs, have an influence on that issue in this House? I cannot see the answer to that in the Government’s proposals. That is why I think that there is a need for a deeper and wider discussion on these issues. This is too important to be left to a one-day debate on Standing Orders in this House. That is why today the DUP is joining others with whom we might not see eye to eye on constitutional issues. We want the best for the United Kingdom and, frankly, this proposal is far from the best.

Transparency of Lobbying, Non-Party Campaigning and Trade Union Administration Bill

Jeffrey M Donaldson Excerpts

Tuesday 3rd September 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Kevin Barron (Rother Valley) (Lab)]

Members will know that I chair the Standards Committee, and this morning we agreed a report on this Bill and how it might affect us in our role as Members of Parliament. It was published just half an hour ago at 4.30 pm and I assume it is now in the Vote Office if anyone wants to look at it, but I want to give a brief overview of what we found.

Shortly after the publication of the Bill, Members received an e-mail from the director of Justice in Financial Services, Joe Egerton. He was concerned about the effect the Bill would have on us. I was contacted by several Members from both sides of the House about this matter, and last week I gave evidence to the Political and Constitutional Reform Committee on its investigation into the matter.

Members will know that there have been concerns about lobbying for many years. As early as 1695 the House resolved that:

“The Offer of any Money, or other Advantage, to any Member of Parliament, for the promoting of any Matter whatsoever, depending, or to be transacted, in Parliament, is a high Crime and Misdemeanour, and tends to the Subversion of the Constitution.”

Successive resolutions have restricted what Members are permitted to do. The current code of conduct states that no Member shall

“act as a paid advocate in any proceeding of the House”.

Indeed, the guide to the rules relating to the conduct of Members makes it clear that the prohibition on advocacy is not limited to proceedings in the House or approaches to Ministers, but extends to approaches to colleagues and to any servants of the Crown. Consultant lobbying as it is normally understood consists of the acceptance of money in direct return for lobbying activity. As the code of conduct is currently written, this would almost certainly be a breach of the advocacy rule.

We also note that the requirements for registration of Members’ financial interests are far more detailed than the Bill’s requirements for entries on the register of consultant lobbyists. Although Members are permitted to have outside interests, a Member who carried out “consultant lobbying” would be breaking the current rules of conduct of the House. While we recognise that that might change, we think it is important that problems do not arise.

As Chair of the Standards Committee, I wrote to the Leader of the House and he responded on 30 August, saying,

“I know that there has been some misunderstanding about whether the normal activities of Members of Parliament would be captured under the definition of consultant lobbying as set out in the Bill. I would therefore like to be quite clear that it is absolutely not the intention of the Bill to do so.”

Although we welcome that assurance, we still have some reservations about the Bill as drafted. People will know the exemptions it contains, one of which is to protect our use of privilege in this place. That is set out in schedule 1(1), which, in effect, protects the provisions intended to assert the continuing force of article 9 of the Bill of Rights. Although some question remains about whether or not that could change in the future, we have no problem with it in the context of this Bill.

The problem lies where schedule 1 deals with Members’ communications on behalf of their constituents, as the provisions are restrictive. We believe that the main mischief in the Bill’s current drafting is in paragraph 2 of schedule 1, which contains the other exception for Members in Parliament. It states:

“A Member of Parliament who makes communications within section 2(3) on behalf of a person or persons resident in his or her constituency does not, by reason of those communications, carry on the business of consultant lobbying.”

The paragraph goes on to state that

“‘resident’ has the meaning which it has for the purposes of section 4 of the Representation of the People Act 1983”.

Simply put, we believe that the Bill, as drafted, would stop us going beyond representing a constituent who has contacted us about a matter; it would severely restrict me, as a Member of Parliament, in communicating with Ministers on public health matters and on many other things. My Committee’s report recommends that we remove paragraph (2) of schedule 1 altogether and that we add a sub-paragraph to paragraph 6, stating that a reference to payment does not include a reference to the salary of a Member of Parliament.

[Mr Jeffrey M. Donaldson (Lagan Valley) (DUP)]

We are greatly concerned about this particular issue. As the House will know, there are five constituencies in Northern Ireland for which no Member takes his or her seat in this House. People living in those constituencies often want parliamentary representation and so come to other Members representing Northern Ireland constituencies in order to gain it. That matter needs to be given consideration.

[Mr Barron]

I am grateful for that intervention, and I entirely agree; my Committee thinks that we are in a dangerous area in respect of doing our job as Members of Parliament and being a voice for our constituents or a voice for wider issues in society. Simply put, if things were restricted in the way that the Bill now envisages, I would be getting my information from the Executive rather than from organisations that can come here to lobby me as a legislator and give me wider knowledge than perhaps the Executive would, on occasion, want me to have when we are legislating. I believe it is important that we address that.

The registrar of consultant lobbyists is given sweeping powers under this Bill. It is perfectly possible that the courts and the registrar will clarify that the definition does not extend so far, to us, but primary legislation should be unambiguous about such matters—this Bill is exactly the opposite. The letter from the Leader of the House contained an offer in relation to sorting out this problem, and I hope that this will be taken seriously. The Committee would like to see it done while the Bill is being considered by the House of Commons, if we agree, in the next week or so.

Business of the House

Jeffrey M Donaldson Excerpts

Friday 18th March 2011 Commons Chamber

[Sir George Young]

Notwithstanding that, Mr Speaker, I will refer my hon. Friend’s comments to the Attorney-General.

[Mr Jeffrey M. Donaldson (Lagan Valley) (DUP)]

We welcome the opportunity to debate Libya. The Prime Minister mentioned that the position of British citizens affected in the past by Libyan-sponsored terrorism has not yet been settled. Will the Leader of the House allow time for a debate on that subject?

[Sir George Young]

It might be appropriate to raise that matter in the debate on Monday; it seems wholly relevant. The right hon. Gentleman may have heard the reply that my right hon. Friend gave, I think, at Prime Minister’s questions last week on the issue of compensation. The Ministry of Justice is considering the matter and hopes to come to a decision very soon.