Finance Bill (First sitting)

Debate between James Murray and Dan Carden

Committee stage
Tuesday 16th January 2024 Public Bill Committees

[James Murray]

I look forward not only to moving on from the current drama in our wider politics, but also to the Minister’s response on the specific point about pantomime productions and claims for tax reliefs.

Finally, having led for the Opposition on five Finance Bills, I know all too well that there can be complexity and indeed unintended consequences when new changes are made to tax relief regimes. Will the Minister therefore again explain what he and HMRC are doing to make sure the appropriate guidance is issued, and support offered, alongside the changes to the rules, to support claimants in navigating them?

On clause 5 on orchestras, the Government have sought to clarify rules around cultural reliefs, again following a two-year extension to the higher rate for orchestra tax relief that we mentioned earlier, which was issued in October 2021 to help the sector recover from the pandemic. Clause 5 seeks to clarify the exclusion of capital expenditure; clarify the exclusion of costs incidental to production; and amend the time limit for concert series elections to either the date of the first concert in the series or the date of the claim.

Although seeking to provide clarity in the operation of creative reliefs is welcome, I am concerned that there is still a lack of clarity on how the rules should be interpreted, and I again ask the Minister to use this opportunity to put some clarification on record. The lack of clarity was brought to my attention by my hon. Friend the Member for Worsley and Eccles South (Barbara Keeley), who is a great champion for the UK’s world-class orchestras. On Second Reading, she made the point that:

“International touring is vital to the survival of many orchestras and makes up a fifth of earned income”

and that

“it boosts cultural exports and enhances the UK’s place on the world stage.”—[Official Report, 13 December 2023; Vol. 742, c. 931.]

She also referred to changes in eligibility for orchestra tax relief that required 10% of expenditure to be on goods or services that are used or consumed in the UK.

I understand the reasoning behind that, as the Minister set it out, but I also understand from my hon. Friend the Member for Worsley and Eccles South that the Association of British Orchestras believes that that means there is a lack of clarity about what orchestras will be able to claim. I am sure the Minister will agree that clarity is crucial for a successful tax system and I would therefore be grateful if the Minister could provide clarity today about how changing eligibility criteria will affect the claims that touring orchestras make.

In clause 6, the Government have again sought to clarify rules, following the higher rate that was granted for museums and galleries exhibition tax relief in October 2021. Galleries and museums are a critical part of our creative sector and of the enjoyment and fulfilment of so many people across the country. The clause seeks to provide clarity on two areas in relation to the relief: namely, the exclusion of costs incidental to production and the requirement for there to be physical admission to exhibitions for the relief to apply. The Opposition will not oppose either of those changes, but I ask the Minister what he is doing to work with key industry bodies, including the Museums Association, to ensure that the appropriate guidance is in place for museums and galleries, large and small, to be able to navigate these changes without confusion.

Clause 7 introduces new administrative measures for companies claiming creative tax reliefs. Claimants will now be required to complete and submit a new online information form. This will include the various new expenditure credits that we discussed in the previous clauses. We understand that these changes seek to streamline the process of making a claim, reduce the administrative burden on HMRC and make it easier to tackle abuse.

Of course, the Opposition support the principle of all those aims. However, as the clause involves the mandatory use of a new online information form from 1 April 2024, I ask the Minister to confirm whether he is confident that the digital systems at HMRC are ready for that to operate from that date. I believe that that is a pertinent question, given the shocking record of the Government in overseeing the implementation of the Making Tax Digital strategy since it was adopted almost a decade ago. Last summer, HMRC admitted that its ageing legacy IT systems meant that HMRC had

“underestimated the scale and complexity”

of delivering Making Tax Digital.

According to the National Audit Office, Ministers set unrealistic ambitions and timescales for implementing MTD. From the very start, HMRC rated MTD as a high-risk programme, and dates were rushed without realistic appraisal. The Financial Secretary to the Treasury is the fifth incumbent of the role since September 2021, and there is no doubt that the churn of Ministers has contributed to the lack of direction in policymaking for digital strategy on tax affairs. I would therefore be grateful if the Minister could outline what steps he has taken to give him confidence in HMRC’s ability to make sure the new online forms for the creative reliefs are operational on time and on budget. That is important for the effective administration of creative reliefs. More widely, it is important that HMRC is equipped with the tools it needs to provide a high-quality online service that individual taxpayers and businesses should expect the Government to deliver.

[Dan Carden (Liverpool, Walton) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to speak with you in the Chair, Mr Paisley; I am delighted to serve on the Committee.

I just wanted to raise an issue that has come to my attention in relation to the Liverpool Philharmonic Hall. The Liverpool Philharmonic Hall is the home of our orchestra in Liverpool. It has a unique model whereby the orchestra owns the hall, and the hall is also rented out for external events. That is unique compared with any other set-up in the country. I understand that, in clause 5, the Government are proposing changes to the detail of how creative tax reliefs are claimed. They are proposing that external events with connected companies —as might happen in the case of the Liverpool Philharmonic—will not be eligible for those tax reliefs. That is the model that the Liverpool Philharmonic has relied on and that has made it such a great success. I wish to use this opportunity to ask the Minister to look again and to seek assurances that the minor changes proposed in clause 5 will not affect the Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra negatively.