Business of the House

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and Christian Matheson

Thursday 8th July 2021 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I think, as England could win against New Zealand in the 50-over world championship, there is hope for all our sporting heroes, and therefore let us be cautiously optimistic about what will happen on Sunday. But it is possibly unwise of a non-expert in this area to make a forecast—not that we think much of experts as a general rule, but we will leave that to one side.

As regards the levelling up agenda, of course it must not be limited to cities alone. I represent a rural constituency, and I feel it is really important that the whole of our country is levelled up. That is the point of levelling up. As regards DEFRA moving to my hon. Friend’s constituency and improving, therefore, the consumption of pork pies, which I believe are a great delicacy from Melton Mowbray—I am grateful for the opportunity to visit—I think she is right to campaign for that. I encourage her to do so, but I cannot promise what the answer will be from my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State.

[Christian Matheson (City of Chester) (Lab)]

Another business questions and still no movement on the Government’s plans to eradicate the practice of fire and rehire. Continuing the football theme, it is like Ministers taking the ball into the corner to run down the clock until we get to recess, without actually having to do anything. It is months now since the Government received the ACAS report, so can we have a statement before recess outlining the Government’s position and what they plan to do to stop this scourge and this inhuman practice?

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

We did have a statement in response to the ACAS report on fire and rehire, the complexities of that report and the way in which it would best be implemented, and the Government’s clear recognition that fire and rehire as a tactic is a bad practice. But there may be circumstances where the best protection of jobs involves an element of it, and therefore the straightforward banning of it altogether would not necessarily improve employment opportunities.

Business of the House

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and Christian Matheson

Thursday 27th May 2021 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

May I begin by congratulating my right hon. Friend? I remember her being questioned by the Brexit Committee, when I was on it, about the settled status scheme, which has been an absolute triumph. It started with the work of my right hon. Friend, and 5.4 million people have now settled and secured settled status. She has done a service to 5.4 million people, which is an amazing achievement. It has given certainty to all those people.

Mistakes happen. When they happen, they must be put right. The examples that my right hon. Friend mentions sound particularly ridiculous—a British citizen should not have to apply for settled status—and I cannot understand why that would have happened or how that information has been shared, but I will certainly take up those specific cases with the Home Office.

[Christian Matheson (City of Chester) (Lab)]

The scandal of fire and rehire continues, and there seems to be no movement at all from the Government to address it. It is three months since the Government received the ACAS report. If we cannot have legislation to ban this outrageous practice, can we have a Government statement responding to the ACAS report, so we understand where the Government are on this scandal?

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I am very sympathetic to the issue the hon. Gentleman has raised. We have discussed it in the House before, and there is a considerable degree of agreement that fire and rehire is a disreputable negotiating tactic and gives capitalism, of which I am a great supporter, a bad name. The Department is considering the ACAS report, and I am afraid that my line is the same as before: information will be brought forward soon. Unfortunately, “soon” is rather an elastic concept in the bureaucratic world.

Business of the House

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and Christian Matheson

Thursday 25th March 2021 Commons Chamber

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

I am sure I would be delighted, Lord President.

[Christian Matheson (City of Chester) (Lab) [V]]

May I add my concerns to those of other hon. Members about the increasingly common tactic of fire and rehire across businesses? I welcomed the Leader of the House’s comments earlier, and I reflect on the fact that the Under-Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, the hon. Member for Sutton and Cheam (Paul Scully), talked about it being “bully boy tactics”, and he is absolutely right. BEIS has had that ACAS report since 17 February. There will be a couple of extra weeks now after the Easter recess. I urge the Leader of the House to bring forward emergency legislation, which by the sound of things would have support, so that we can outlaw this disgraceful tactic of fire and rehire.

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for reiterating the point, which is a serious one. Employers threatening to fire and rehire as a negotiating tactic are doing something that is wrong and that decent employers do not do. My hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy could not have been clearer about what a bad practice it is. The hon. Gentleman says that BEIS has had the report since 17 February, which was slightly longer than I had realised, but none the less for something of this importance that is not an enormous amount of time, and I know it is being considered extremely carefully.

Companies should know better than to behave in this way. All companies operate best when their employees are working there with enthusiasm, and these types of tactics are very bad for morale in businesses, so I would say to my capitalist friends, “Behave well as a business, and your business will do better.”

Business of the House

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and Christian Matheson

Thursday 19th March 2020 Commons Chamber

[Christian Matheson (City of Chester) (Lab)]

Further to the question from the hon. Member for The Wrekin (Mark Pritchard), I have constituents who are as far away as the Philippines and Peru at the moment. They have been told to contact the embassies, but the embassy staff have rightly been sent home and contact with the embassies is nigh on impossible. There is spare capacity on the airlines at the moment, so can we have a statement from the Department for Transport or the Foreign Office—or, better still, both—about how we are going to bring our stranded people back home?

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I can assure the hon. Gentleman that this is at the forefront of what the Foreign Secretary is doing; I heard him say that only this morning. He is ensuring that people who are in difficulties in remote areas receive as much support as the Foreign Office can possibly give.

Business of the House

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and Christian Matheson

Thursday 3rd October 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I am in the happy position of being the ventriloquist’s dummy, because my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary is sitting next to me, and I was able to ask him briefly for his view. Of course, the Foreign Office will take this incredibly seriously and will look into it.

[Christian Matheson (City of Chester) (Lab)]

We were told by every leading climate scientist in the world that we had only 12 years to act to stop climate change. Unfortunately, that was almost a year ago, and the clock is ticking, so would it be a good idea for the Government to schedule—perhaps quarterly, at most—a statement or debate to allow the House to monitor and expedite progress towards achieving our decarbonisation aims?

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I continue to be the ventriloquist’s dummy, because the Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, who is sitting on my other side, has said to me that we will be doing what the hon. Member for City of Chester (Christian Matheson) suggests much more frequently than that. I am pleased to bring that good news to the House.

Serious and Organised Crime: Prüm Convention

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and Christian Matheson

Tuesday 8th December 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

My hon. Friend is right. The Danish question is one of the greatest importance. Denmark had a referendum, having trusted their people, which I believe we may be doing at some point. But of course we are not trusting them on this measure, because it is instrumental to catching terrorists, and the people cannot be trusted to decide whether they want to do that or not. No, this must be done by the Government after a three-hour debate—though lucky us to get even a three-hour debate. Last year we did not get a debate on the European arrest warrant. We had it on something else.

[Christian Matheson (City of Chester) (Lab)]

The hon. Gentleman appears to be suggesting that we have a series of bilateral agreements with 20-something EU member states, but is that not essentially what is being done tonight, albeit in a more efficient way?

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

The hon. Gentleman is only partly right—a bit of a curate’s egg, if I may say so, but it is regrettably rotten in parts. If the agreement is done in this way, it comes under the competence of the European Court of Justice and infraction proceedings can be brought by the European Commission. Why is that important? I accept that protections are built into Prüm, and that there are limits on the application of what the ECJ can do, but it needs to be seen as part of a whole package. We are agreeing today that the investigatory function in relation to data held by Governments should be centralised at a European level. We agreed a year ago that the arrest function should be centralised with a European competence. So we have investigation, we have arrest, and we have a proposal from the European Commission for a European public prosecutor—so far, resisted, but this measure was resisted a year ago, and the European arrest warrant was not Conservative party policy until a year ago.

I wonder whether the hon. Gentleman sees where I am going. This is part of a package of creating a European criminal justice system. It comes one by one and bit by bit. On every occasion, the measure is said to be essential and we are told that there is no opportunity of doing it differently, but if there is no opportunity of doing it differently, why is my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister racing around European capitals trying to organise a renegotiation? If there is never any other possibility, is that not banging our head against a brick wall? Surely we should be saying—the Government intimated this a year ago, but there has been no delivery at all—that we will make the European arrest warrant and all that goes with it part of the renegotiation. We would go back to the status quo ante—where we were prior to the Lisbon treaty: that we do these things on an intergovernmental basis.

My right hon. Friend the Member for Stone—I am sorry, I mean hon. Friend; he ought to be right honourable; it is extraordinary that Her Majesty has not yet asked him to join the Privy Council—pointed me in the direction of Denmark. Denmark has said no. Denmark will want to make arrangements with fellow European Union states to exchange data with their friends and allies, and we could make arrangements with our friends and allies to exchange data and do all the sensible things of which everyone in this House is in favour. It is the right thing for us to do, but it is better than that. If we did it on an intergovernmental basis we might decide that there are some EU member states whose criminal justice systems are not up to it. That is an important point. My hon. Friend the Member for South Dorset (Richard Drax) referred to his constituent and the disgraceful way in which he was treated in a country where we do not have the same confidence in the criminal justice processes that we have in, for example, Germany and France, or, for that matter, the United States and Canada. Such an arrangement would give us greater flexibility, and there are a number of ways in which it could be done. We could have intergovernmental agreements with the European Union as a body. The EU has legal personality, so it is possible to do it on that basis, but maintain control and keep the rights that we enjoy, and stop the rush—that is perhaps an exaggeration, as the last debate was a year ago, but it is a rush in European terms—to establish a single criminal justice system.

It is worrying that a Government who portray themselves in election campaigns, propaganda and statements as Eurosceptic, when it comes to the details of what they are doing, turn out to think that the answer is more Europe. They then say that this has to be done because we are in danger if we do not do it. The only reason we are in danger is that we assume that the EU and its member states are not rational in their dealings with us, so we must always give in to them. One of the greatest Prime Ministers that this country ever saw, William Pitt, said:

“Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.”

This argument is dependent on the necessity. I do not wish this Government to be tyrannical, nor do I wish to be a slave.

Tax Credits

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and Christian Matheson

Tuesday 27th October 2015 Commons Chamber

[Christian Matheson (City of Chester) (Lab)]

rose—

[Mr Jacob Rees-Mogg (North East Somerset) (Con)]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

I think I will do a wrap-up at the end. Let us hear from the hon. Member for City of Chester (Christian Matheson), and then we must hear from Mr Rees-Mogg—the day would not be complete without him.

[Christian Matheson]

Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. I am pleased to hear the late conversion of Conservative Members to democracy and the rejection of an unelected Chamber, but can you give me some guidance? Is there not a constitutional role for the other place in giving pause to this House when it has made a decision that is out of sync with feelings in the country, so that the House can look at that decision again?

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

rose—