Business of the House

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and Catherine McKinnell

Thursday 27th January 2022 Commons Chamber

[Catherine McKinnell (Newcastle upon Tyne North) (Lab)]

Further to Mr Speaker’s announcement that there will be no statements today, that does rather leave unanswered the question that many members of the public want to know the answer to: the whereabouts of Sue Gray’s urgent and very important report into the numerous reported events and parties that No. 10 took part in during lockdown. The Prime Minister has been known to hide in a fridge to avoid questions, so can the Leader of the House confirm that there will be no hiding from the outcome of this report—that it will be published in full, and that we will be granted time in this House to scrutinise its findings in full?

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

First, it is wrong of Members of this House to pressurise the independent investigator over the speed of her report. It would be wrong for the Government to put pressure on her, and it is wrong of the Opposition to do so. Sue Gray is doing it independently, and she must be given the time that she needs to do it. However, of course, as the Prime Minister has said, when the report is released, he will come to the House and make a statement, and will be open to questions. That is the proper parliamentary procedure.

Business of the House

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and Catherine McKinnell

Thursday 22nd July 2021 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

My hon. Friend is right in so much of what she says and is aligned with Government policy. The 10-point plan has laid the foundations for a green industrial revolution, creating and supporting up to a quarter of million jobs by 2030. It is innovation and technology that will deliver net zero while maintaining and, indeed, improving the public’s living standards. Our lifetime skills guarantee will equip people with the training they need to take advantages of opportunities as they arrive, and we will need engineers, fitters, construction workers and others engaged in harnessing British science and technology to create and use clean energy. We have done great things already of which we should be proud. We were the first major economy to commit in law to net zero by 2050, and we have managed to reduce emissions since 1990 while growing the economy. That is a fantastic achievement and must be the model for what we go on to do in future.

[Catherine McKinnell (Newcastle upon Tyne North) (Lab) [V]]

Next week will mark two years since the Prime Minister promised to build Northern Powerhouse Rail connecting Newcastle to the north’s other major cities, yet in the past few days the Government’s integrated rail plan for the north and midlands has been delayed yet again, and we have heard that construction on the eastern leg of HS2 has stopped. Delivering HS2 and Northern Powerhouse Rail in full, alongside upgrades to the east coast main line, are all essential parts of a transformational project to connect the country by rail. Please can we have a debate on this as soon as possible so that we can convey to the Government that building 21st-century rail links between London and Birmingham while passengers in the north are left behind makes a mockery of levelling up?

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

The integrated rail plan will soon set out exactly how major multi-billion-pound rail projects, including Northern Powerhouse Rail, will work together to deliver reliable train services. My right hon. Friend the Transport Secretary has published the Williams-Shapps White Paper. The Government will make railways the backbone of a cleaner, more environmentally friendly and modern public transport system across the country, and £40 billion of taxpayers’ money will be devoted to that. The Government’s record on rail infrastructure is an excellent one.

Business of the House

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and Catherine McKinnell

Thursday 24th June 2021 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Of course it does.

[Catherine McKinnell (Newcastle upon Tyne North) (Lab) [V]]

Schools spend the pupil premium on things like extra teaching staff, breakfast clubs, laptops, and tailoring support to their most disadvantaged pupils. However, due to the Government’s inexplicable decision to base pupil premium funding for the next financial year on data from October rather than using the up-to-date January figures as usual, north-east schools could lose out on up to £7.6 million for the 5,700 north-east pupils who became eligible for free school meals between October and January. The Education Secretary has ignored pleas from the North East Child Poverty Commission and others to put this right. May I urge the Leader of the House to make time for a debate in Government time on ensuring that schools in regions such as the north-east that have experienced some of worst learning loss do not lose out on even more funding?

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

The hon. Lady missed a chance to question the Secretary of State for Education, who was here on Monday. Obviously there always have to be cut-off dates to allow for figures to be run and for decisions to be made, and after those cut-off dates there will then be the next year’s figures to work on for future years. All government depends on data on particular dates, and this is not unreasonable.

Business of the House

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and Catherine McKinnell

Thursday 17th June 2021 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I am not sure I shall be joining in with the yogic flying exercises, which I think were the policy of the National Law party, which stood in previous elections. World Refugee Day, however, is very important. This country has a proud and long record of providing a place of safety for refugees. One of the really important things about the changes that are going to be made to our immigration system is that they will protect those who are in genuine fear and who come here as refugees, and will make this country continue to be a safe place for them to come.

[Catherine McKinnell (Newcastle upon Tyne North) (Lab) [V]]

Emerging from the pandemic as a healthier country is one of the Government’s key priorities for this Parliament, but communities that already face some of the country’s worst health inequalities, such as West Denton in my constituency, have, sadly, seen their local fitness facilities close for good during the pandemic. Reducing health inequalities is essential to delivering on the commitment to level up the poorest parts of the country, and access to modern local fitness facilities is a key part of that. That is why the Government should back Newcastle City Council’s levelling-up fund bid to develop a new, state-of-the-art, net zero carbon leisure development in the Outer West of Newcastle. Could we please have a debate on using the levelling-up fund to manage the recovery in a way that helps people to lead healthier lives?

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I am delighted that the hon. Lady is so supportive of the levelling-up fund. It is a great opportunity to help communities across the country have additional resources so that they can improve their local communities. Engagement from MPs is greatly to be encouraged, so I thank the hon. Lady for her enthusiasm for Government policy.

Business of the House

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and Catherine McKinnell

Thursday 20th May 2021 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

My hon. Friend is a fantastic champion for his constituency, Rother Valley. I think the last movement of the capital of this nation was from Winchester to London, and he now suggests that it move from London to Rother Valley. I slightly warn him to be careful what he wishes for, because that would be quite a change in the nature and composition of the Rother Valley, but his broad point is really good: it is not just those organisations directly under the control of Her Majesty’s Government that should think of moving; quangos should also think about whether they best serve the nation by being in London or could move elsewhere. He has raised the idea and I hope they will take notice. I remind him that the Government plan to move 22,000 civil service roles to the regions and nations of the UK by 2030. To return to the previous question, from the hon. Member for Gordon (Richard Thomson), I think that will help by including more people who are more likely to apply for civil service jobs near where live, rather than our having the London-centric focus that we have. I am not, though, in favour of moving our capital city to the Rother Valley quite yet.

[Catherine McKinnell (Newcastle upon Tyne North) (Lab) [V]]

I add my birthday wishes to the Leader of the House for Monday. However, I fear that, for an increasing number of children in this country, their birthdays are not so happy. Between 2015 and 2020—the five years before the pandemic hit—child poverty increased by more in north-east local authorities than it did in any other region. My constituency, Newcastle upon Tyne North, has seen child poverty increase to 33% over that period—that is one in every three children, even before taking into account the impact of covid-19. It is shocking and appalling. How can the Government talk about levelling up when ever-increasing numbers of children and young people in the north-east are growing up in poverty on their watch, even while their parents are mostly already in work? May we have an urgent debate on the need for a comprehensive strategy to tackle child poverty—something that was conspicuously absent from the Government’s agenda for this Parliament?

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I am grateful for these birthday wishes, although they are beginning to get a little embarrassing; I normally keep my advancing age quiet, rather than showing off about it quite so much as I have been doing this morning.

The hon. Lady’s point is fundamental to the Government’s agenda. This is what was set out in the Queen’s Speech: it was about levelling up and continuing the work that has been done. As I said to the hon. Member for Gateshead (Ian Mearns), there are 100,000 fewer children in absolute poverty than there were in 2010. That is an important achievement. The national living wage; the personal tax threshold; the national insurance threshold; the extra money into the universal credit work allowances; the tax-free childcare; expanded free school meals; and the temporary extension of universal credit—all those things have helped people to get out of absolute poverty, which is a very important part of what the Government are doing. The levelling-up strategy, to ensure that all parts of the country can be more prosperous as the years go by, will help to reduce poverty further.

Business of the House

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and Catherine McKinnell

Thursday 22nd April 2021 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I remember an occasion when Margaret Thatcher went to St James’s Park to pick up litter—actually, the litter had to be put down for her to pick up because there was not any immediately to hand—and she had the slogan “Bag it and bin it and that way we’ll win it”. Those words and the words of my right hon. Friend are ones that we should all bear in mind.

[Catherine McKinnell (Newcastle upon Tyne North) (Lab) [V]]

May I associate myself with the comments made by my hon. Friend the Member for Gateshead (Ian Mearns) on the passing of Ray, the husband of my hon. Friend the Member for North Tyneside (Mary Glindon)?

The Government’s flagship education recovery scheme, the national tutoring programme, has reached 96% of its target numbers in schools in the south-east and 100% in the south-west but under 60% in the north-east. I share concerns expressed by the director of Schools North East that the Government’s one-size-fits-all approach does not account for the significantly higher levels of long-term disadvantage in regions such as the north-east or regional variations in how well established tutoring is as an intervention. We must see our recovery from covid-19 closing inequality gaps, not broadening them, so can we have a debate in Government time on making education recovery more responsive to local circumstances and trusting school heads to know the best way to support their pupils?

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

The Government are very committed to the levelling-up agenda and therefore ensuring that all parts of the country receive their fair share of support. The hon. Lady raises an important point. I ask her to point out to the Government—via my office, if that would be useful—where there are any blockages, so that the Government can ensure that those are removed, because it is fundamental that we should be fair and level up across the country.

Business of the House

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and Catherine McKinnell

Thursday 18th March 2021 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

My hon. Friend raises a key question. The strategic review has taken place, but the fire safety work has been a real achievement of the existing Palace authorities. I have some fantastic figures for the House about what has been done to ensure that the risk to life is minimised and the protection of the building is maximised: 7,112 automatic fire detection devices have been put in; 5,949 emergency lights have been put in—one of them outside the Chief Whip’s office, so when he comes out and you see a halo, that is because of our fire safety lights; 3,329 voice alarm sounders; 1,869 new fire safety signs; 1,364 locations for fire-stopping compartmentation; 4,126 sprinkler heads in the basement of the Palace and, amazingly, eight miles of pipe for a new sprinkler system in the basement. I am really reassured by this that the safety of this Palace is so much greater even before R and R has started. When R and R is happening, this is crucial because the highest risk of fire is very often when builders are renovating premises.

[Catherine McKinnell (Newcastle upon Tyne North) (Lab) [V]]

Despite the heroic efforts of schools and their staff, children and young people have had to adapt to enormous change and challenge over the last year, often chopping and changing circumstances with little notice or preparation, and I truly believe that we underestimate the impact on their short and long-term mental wellbeing at our peril. Today’s National Audit Office report on the Department for Education’s covid response reads like a litany of failure, with no plan for our children or their education in place until June. The Government now have plans for pupils to get up to speed with their studies, but can I urge the Government to show more ambition in stemming the damage this last year may have caused to our children’s wellbeing? Given that we know the effect of wellbeing on performance at school, the two must go hand in hand. Can we therefore have a debate in Government time on how we make children’s wellbeing a fundamental part of the recovery?

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

The Government’s record on schooling is actually extremely good. There is a £1.7 billion covid catch-up fund for enhanced support and targeted tutoring, and Sir Kevan Collins has been appointed the education recovery commissioner to oversee our long-term plans to ensure pupils can make up any lost learning over the course of this Parliament. Schools have been a priority during the whole of the pandemic to keep them open as much as possible, because the Government recognise the importance of education. Getting back to normal and helping pupils get back to normal—providing additional funding and distributing many hundreds of thousands of computers to schoolchildren, plus the 57 million lateral flow test kits that have been delivered to schools and colleges as part of ensuring schools are really safe now—has been fundamentally important.

Business of the House

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and Catherine McKinnell

Thursday 11th March 2021 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

The Government have set out their road map cautiously to ease lockdown restrictions, including the reopening of non-essential retail no earlier than 12 April, subject to the data. The Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy and the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government have reconvened a small working group of retailers and local authorities to discuss and work together on how best to reopen the relevant sectors, so the Government’s approach is co-designed with the business community.

So far, the Government have provided local authorities in England with £50 million of taxpayers’ money through the reopening high streets safely fund, with grants being available to apply for until the end of June 2021. In addition to the financial support already provided, the Chancellor has announced that Her Majesty’s Government will provide additional one-off restart grants for businesses in England in the non-essential, retail, hospitality, leisure, personal care and accommodation sectors. That new restart grant scheme will provide £6,000 for non-essential businesses.

The Government continue to provide eligible retail, hospitality and leisure properties in England with 100% business rates relief until 30 June 2021, followed by 66% business rates relief from the period 1 July 2021 to 1 March 2022. A great deal is happening, but my hon. Friend is right to raise the issue because we want to see our high streets come back booming when we reopen.

[Catherine McKinnell (Newcastle upon Tyne North) (Lab) [V]]

I thank the Leader of the House and all House staff for the restarted hybrid petitions debates; just this week, petitions signed by more than 370,000 petitioners have been debated.

I want to raise an issue pertinent to this week, which marks International Women’s Day. As a precaution, all pregnant women are automatically classed as clinically vulnerable to covid-19. The Petitions Committee recommended back in September that furlough be extended to expectant mothers who cannot socially distance at work or work from home. Government funding through the furlough scheme cannot be used for that purpose, and we have heard worrying reports of pregnant women struggling to come to fair arrangements with their employers.

I again urge the Government to reconsider and listen to calls from Maternity Action and others for expectant mothers to be eligible for furlough if they are unable to work safely. Will the Leader of the House find time for a broader debate on how we prevent the pandemic from deepening pre-existing gender inequalities in the workplace?

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I am delighted that the hybrid Westminster Hall is getting important petitions debated. It is a very effective way of ensuring that the matters of the greatest concern to our constituents are aired.

It is obviously important that businesses work with their staff to ensure that they are comfortable going back to work and that there is consideration for all sorts of factors that may have an effect on people returning. Pregnancy, inevitably, is a very important one of those. Employers have a duty—a legal obligation—to ensure that their workplaces are secure. I think these issues are best left between employers and employees, rather than having potentially heavy-handed Government intervention.

Business of the House

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and Catherine McKinnell

Thursday 28th January 2021 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

My hon. Friend, as always, raises an important point. I am delighted to hear that the council has found more money. It sounds rather like the card in Monopoly that says, “Banking error in your favour”, which very rarely seems to happen in real life, but clearly has happened in Somerset.

I have indeed received communications from the county council about what it calls its “One Somerset” proposal. The problem with this is that it does not include the whole of Somerset—it leaves out both North Somerset, and Bath and North East Somerset—and it is always an irritation when people pretend to represent the whole great county of Somerset when they are only representing a part of it.

[Catherine McKinnell (Newcastle upon Tyne North) (Lab) [V]]

The North-East Joint Transport Committee’s “Connected North East” blueprint sets out vital asks of Government to upgrade our regional transport and digital connectivity in order to rebuild and revitalise our economy and communities post covid, including long overdue upgrades to the congested east coast main line and long-distance high-speed rail services calling at Newcastle airport. Can we therefore find time for a debate on how the Government will support north-east communities to deliver this ambitious package, developed by our region for our region, so the north-east can forge its prosperous future?

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I hope the hon. Lady is pleased that we have managed to find time for a Petitions Committee debate, which I promised I would do when Westminster Hall was temporarily closed.

The Government have a record infrastructure programme, with £600 billion in the next five years to deliver on the promise to upgrade and level up infrastructure. That is for roads and railways, along with gigabit broadband and 5G. On railways, there is £40 billion for rail, including £17.5 billion for renewal and upgrades over the next three years. So there is money available, it is being spent and the hon. Lady is right to petition for it for her part of the country.

Business of the House

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and Catherine McKinnell

Thursday 17th December 2020 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care has gone to great lengths to keep this House updated throughout the pandemic, and there will be a statement later from the Department on the latest state of affairs, when these issues can be raised. It is worth saying that, last week, we took a huge step forward in our collective fight against coronavirus, rolling out an initial 800,000 doses of the approved Pfizer vaccine, which is a considerable achievement. We have done remarkably well against our European friends. I notice that the Germans are getting a little bit antsy because we are ahead of them, and that is because we have a very efficient regulator.

[Catherine McKinnell (Newcastle upon Tyne North) (Lab) [V]]

We are seeing the emergence of a very worrying pattern of sports and leisure facilities in areas with the biggest pre-existing health inequalities also being at the greatest risk of closure due to the impact of covid. In Newcastle upon Tyne North, we are very concerned about the future of West Denton pool, which closed when lockdown first began in March and has not yet reopened. It is vital that those living in the outer west of Newcastle can fulfil their new year health resolutions and that their children can learn to swim, like anywhere else. Can we have a debate in Government time on how we prevent this pandemic from deepening pre-existing health inequalities and ensure that facilities such as West Denton pool can reopen once again and become a hive in our community?

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

The Government have provided enormous funds to local authorities that help them to pay for the services they ought to be providing, including £4.6 billion across the country of funding that is not ring-fenced, which local councils can use as they see fit. I encourage the hon. Lady to lobby her local council to try to ensure these facilities are available.

Batten Disease: Access to Drugs

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and Catherine McKinnell

Tuesday 16th July 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I completely agree with my hon. Friend.

Generally, I recognise the need for public expenditure constraint. Money always has to come from somewhere; it has to be either taxed or borrowed. However, in a country that spends over £800 billion a year, and £120 billion or whatever it is a year on the national health service, can we not find just over £6 million a year for this small number of children who have a terrible disease that can be held at bay?

[Catherine McKinnell (Newcastle upon Tyne North) (Lab)]

I very much commend the hon. Gentleman for securing this hugely important and timely debate. Does he share my concern that we seem to be witnessing a bit of a blame game between NHS England, NICE and BioMarin? Does he agree that they just need to get round the table and resolve this issue one way or another, even if it requires the Minister to bring them together and knock some heads together to get them to come to a resolution? The rapid-acting nature of Batten disease means that my constituents Nicole and Jessica Rich and the other children who are affected just do not have the time for this wrangling to carry on.

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

The hon. Lady is absolutely right. The terrible thing is that in the month that has passed since I first raised this matter in the House, Max’s condition will have slightly deteriorated, and in every month that goes on while we are debating this, not just Max but all the children with this condition will go downhill. That is what happens with this disease.

There are questions to be asked about the structure of policy on rare diseases, and about the Government’s response and what powers they have. As I said at the beginning, accountability through this House is of fundamental importance. By law, the Secretary of State still maintains overall responsibility for the provision of healthcare in this country. It is the Secretary of State who is accountable. We cannot make NICE accountable; it has not been structured to be accountable. It does not appear in the Chamber to tell us what it is doing—that is done by second degree, through Ministers. We really need to know what, if any, reserve powers Ministers may have to be able to do something about the situation.

Can something be done? Can a budget exception be provided, so that funds may be made available for these rare diseases? Can something be done, as has been done for cancer treatments, to provide money where exceptionality can be seen? Of course these drugs are expensive: they affect so few people, and the drugs companies will not develop them if they cannot at least make their money back. Can something be done as in other areas, particularly cancer, to ensure that the drugs can be provided? Can the rule changes in 2017 that made it harder to fund rare disease drugs be reviewed and possibly reversed? Since 2017, the financial aspect has become much more significant than it was before.

Although I accept, of course, that there is a need to look at costs, when we are talking about eight-year-old children, we are not talking about a cost for people who only have weeks or months to live, but about a child who could have years of a high quality of life ahead of him. That must be where most of us as taxpayers think it is right to spend money and where we think that the moral case for spending money is extraordinarily strong.

[Catherine McKinnell]

Does the hon. Gentleman share my concern that the impact of rare conditions such as Batten disease is not just felt in the child’s physical health, but in their mental health and the mental health of their wider family? The system for judging what is value for money and how our NHS should spend its money needs to take a much broader approach when calculating the value of these medicines in those circumstances. It needs to get it right.

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

The hon. Lady puts it so well—and it is not just the family, but the community. On Saturday, the village of East Harptree, a small village in North East Somerset, came together for its annual village fête. All the funds raised were to try and help Max. He is at the local primary school, East Harptree Primary School. The week before, they had the school races. All the children had gone back a few yards so that Max could win, for the first and only time in his life, the race at his school. That is such a wonderful example of community. If communities can do that, surely the Government can help too, because it is not just Max and not just his wonderful family who are trying so hard to do the right thing for him. A whole community would be pleased, and would feel it was being taken notice of, if Max were helped—all his schoolfriends and schoolteachers and the whole community in East Harptree.

[Catherine McKinnell]

The hon. Gentleman gives a really powerful example. The whole of the community in Newcastle knows about Nicole and Jessica Rich and is doing everything it can to support them in this journey. This not only affects those two beautiful children; it also affects their family in a huge way, and the whole community.

For that reason, I beg the Minister today to recognise that this is not only about reaching the right decision, but about doing it with urgency. Every day, there is an impact on their deteriorating health, and there is also the impact on the parents of supporting those children with a debilitating condition and living with the agony of not knowing what future lies ahead—whether the medicine that will save their children’s lives will be funded or not.

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I so agree with the hon. Lady. I am of course primarily talking about Max, my constituent, but to take the drug away from children who are already getting it would be unconscionable. I simply do not believe that any reasonable person—any politician or any administrator—would think that the right thing to do. It is bad enough not to give the drug to a child who could benefit; to withdraw it would be so utterly wrong that I cannot believe that that could happen.

When something can be done, it is hard for it not to be done and for us to allow it not to be done. It is frustrating that it is so hard to change and that there seems to be nobody who can decide it. Everyone one talks to says it is not up to them. NICE is bound by its guidelines, NHS England is bound by NICE, and the Secretary of State is bound by the legal interpretation of what the Health and Social Care Act 2012 provides, but none of that is good enough. We need action. Ultimately, it is Ministers, through Parliament, who are able to act.

Let me finish with what Max’s father, Simon Sewart, who has been doing so much to look after his son, wrote:

“I have always understood that life is no fairy tale with a happy ending, but when you learn that your beautiful child has a disease, as horrific as Batten Disease, your world changes forever and your heart is broken.

NICE announced, just 24 hours after Max’s diagnosis, that the first ever treatment for CLN2 Batten Disease will not be funded.

At a time when you should be taking care of your child, your other children, and enjoying precious time together as a family, you instead find yourself spending all of your time writing emails and letters, speaking to journalists and TV news programmes, communicating with your MP and with doctors in other countries where the ERT is available.

Expending all of your energy in fighting the extraordinary decision by NICE and NHSE. And all the time, you see your child decline, day by day. And all the time, you just want to expend your energy on them, on holding them, on playing with them, on laughing and smiling with them, on running with them, on walking with them, on talking with them, on looking around at the world with them; on all these things. With them.

This double-whammy is almost too much to bear. Reverse your decision NICE and let my family be.”

Is that not what we all want for Max and his family? He has this terrible disease. It is not a disease that he can ever be cured of, but if he gets this treatment, he could have a higher-quality life and his family would be peacefully with him, enjoying his company for the years that remain to him. Please can the Minister do something about this?

Cost of Living

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and Catherine McKinnell

Tuesday 14th May 2013 Commons Chamber

[Jacob Rees-Mogg]

The important thing for the Government to do is to lift the living standards of everybody, but we do not improve the standard of living of the poor by impoverishing the rich. That is what Labour tried when in government before and it singularly failed. If everybody gets richer, the whole standard of living of this country improves, and Government revenues increase when rates of taxation are reduced. It is thought that the ideal rate to maximise the amount of revenue for the Treasury would be 37%, so I would be keen for the Government to do this. It is a great error, for those on all sides, to put short-term political advantage or debating points above the economic benefit of this country. Therefore, we should be bold about rates to make sure that we get the revenue we need for the Government to be able to afford to do what they want to do, to keep taxation overall as low as possible, to pay down the deficit and, ultimately, to reduce the national debt. So on the fiscal side, the Government have got it right.

The other aspect of prices is the monetary side, primarily handed over to the Bank of England, but none the less with a Government target set in relation to inflation. If the monetary side were to get out of control, as we have seen historically that it can, the cost of living increases because of the monetary effect on prices. So there is a careful balance for the Government to have. This Government, unlike our continental partners, have got it right by having a tight fiscal policy and a loose monetary policy, so that liquidity is available within the economic system, but the Government part of it is bearing down on the Government’s deficit and, ultimately, on the debt. That is the right balance, and it will encourage price stability. If we did things the other way around—with tight fiscal and monetary policies—we would have a degree of austerity that is unsustainable, as our continental friends have. If we have both loose money and loose fiscal policy, we will end up with inflation that has pretty much disastrous consequences for the cost of living.

[Catherine McKinnell]

rose—

Savings Accounts and Health in Pregnancy Grant Bill

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and Catherine McKinnell

Tuesday 26th October 2010 Commons Chamber

[Jacob Rees-Mogg]

I thank the hon. Lady for that useful clarification.

The health in pregnancy benefit is paid to ladies towards the end of their pregnancy so that they can eat properly. Again, my wife was entitled to it. I have in the past been mobbed up somewhat on nannies and issues relating to that subject, but the one type of nanny of which I most firmly disapprove is the nanny state. This patronising approach, saying to these ladies, “You ought to eat your greens and here’s some money so you can do so,” is not what government is about. The Government are here to allow people to lead their lives as freely as they possibly may, without interference from the state while also providing a safety net for those who fall on hard times, not to tell people how to lead their lives, at the expense of the taxpayer and the economy.

[Catherine McKinnell]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that a “lady” of very low income who finds herself pregnant and expecting her baby in three months’ time will have increased expenditure relating to both the pregnancy and the upcoming birth?

[Jacob Rees-Mogg]

The hon. Lady makes a brilliant and inspired point with which I completely agree, and it is therefore wise to ensure that such benefits as there are are directed to the people who need them, not wasted on people who do not need them. [Interruption.] If the hon. Member for Nottingham East (Chris Leslie) wants to say something, I am more than happy to give way.