EU Asylum Reform Package

Jacob Rees-Mogg Excerpts

Monday 19th December 2016 General Committees

[The Chair]

Merry Christmas everyone.

Before we begin, I will not so briefly outline the procedure. First, a member of the European Scrutiny Committee may make a five-minute statement about the decision to refer the documents. The Minister may then make a statement of no more than 10 minutes, and questions to the Minister will follow. Once questions have ended, the Minister moves the motion on the paper. Debate takes place on the motion, and we must conclude our proceedings by 7 pm.

Before calling a member of the European Scrutiny Committee to introduce the debate on the Government’s opt-in decisions on the European Union asylum reform package, I must inform the Committee that, contrary to the usual and expected order of proceedings, the motion before us this afternoon was put to the House and agreed last Tuesday, in advance of its debate in Committee. I am confident that the Minister will listen carefully to what is said today and that, if there are strong feelings, the House will have an opportunity to reconsider its resolution on the matter in the light of today’s proceedings. The Government will take steps to facilitate that.

Members of the Committee may also like to note that the documents referred to in the motion will remain under scrutiny by the European Scrutiny Committee after the debate has taken place and until cleared by the Committee.

[Mr Jacob Rees-Mogg (North East Somerset) (Con)]

On a point of order, Mr Evans. This is an extraordinary state of affairs. There is no point to the Committee. Its point is to debate the issues and to refer them to the House. The House has already decided, and as this Committee is merely the servant of the House, it has nothing to debate. We should not be here, but be going off for our Christmas holidays.

[The Chair]

As attracted as I am to the latter suggestion, I am sure that the Minister will clarify the Government’s intentions as to the purpose of the Committee sitting. As I said in my lengthy preamble, in the light of today’s proceedings, should the Minister wish to reconsider the resolution passed last week—

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

Further to that point of order, Mr Evans. This is not a matter for the Government to say kindly how they will listen to the House; this is a matter of the House’s Standing Orders, which the Government are obliged to follow. It is not for the Government to play ducks and drakes with the proceedings of the House of Commons.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Goodwill]

The usual channels are particularly in the frame for this one—although it was not spotted by those who otherwise spot these things.

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Evans, even if that pleasure is slightly tempered by the fact that the debate may well serve no purpose. I ask my hon. Friend the Minister one question: can one draw any understanding of the Government’s negotiating position on Brexit from decisions on opt-ins—or not opting in? As those negotiations proceed, is this something that we will see guiding our policy in the areas in which we may seek further commonality with the European Union?

[Mr Goodwill]

I thank my hon. Friend for his question and for his work as a member of the European Scrutiny Committee. Although I am reluctant to disagree with him on the Committee’s not serving a purpose, I have to say that what is said here could cause the Government to opt into the measure at a later date. However, I rather suspect that the debate will stiffen my view that we have made the right decision.

My hon. Friend tempts me into the area of Brexit negotiations. I suspect you might pull me up were I persuaded to go into that area, Mr Evans. All these matters are under consideration. As I said in my opening remarks, we feel that they are best determined at a national level, which is even more important as we approach the era in which we are no longer members of the European Union.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Goodwill]

I repeat my apology, but I would certainly be interested to learn, perhaps from a supplementary question from the Scottish National party, whether it believes that we should have opted into any of the four measures.

We in this House have the power to pass legislation, so even if we do not opt into measures, we can take our own approach to some of them. Indeed, looking at our successful roll-out of the Syrian vulnerable person resettlement scheme and the other schemes in the area, as well as our long-standing gateway and mandate scheme, I believe that we are stepping up to the mark with our responsibilities. EU legislation would not add anything in that regard.

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I thank the Minister for his apology. I think he has made the right decision, albeit in the wrong way. I note that the Government are doing considerably better than the last Government, and very considerably better than the coalition Government, in bringing forward debates in European Committees, though I think one debate is still outstanding from a recommendation in January 2013. Although that is not satisfactory, the situation is not as bad as it has been.

[Mr Goodwill]

My hon. Friend will know that the treaty of Lisbon says a lot about giving national Parliaments more power and more say over these things. It is yet to be made apparent how that will be rolled out across the European Union. In the meantime, this Parliament remains sovereign in the UK, and after Brexit we will have even more sovereignty to exercise on behalf of the people of the United Kingdom.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Goodwill]

We are taking refugees from the region under the two schemes that we have put in place, as well as the long-standing scheme. That does not contribute to the pull factor that results in people traffickers carrying out their business, and indeed, sadly, in fatalities and people meeting a watery grave in the Mediterranean and Aegean seas.

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

The policy followed by some of our European allies has been absolutely disastrous. The British Government are the one Government who have got it right: they are helping in the region, rather than encouraging people to take extraordinarily dangerous journeys. The Government really deserve to be supported in that.

[Mr Goodwill]

My hon. Friend, as so often, is absolutely right. Let us not forget that the UK remains one of the largest member state contributors to Greece’s efforts to implement the EU-Turkey agreement. We offered 75 personnel initially and a further 40 this month. The UK has deployed a Border Force search-and-rescue cutter to the Aegean and contributed assets to the NATO mission, including the HMS Mersey, an offshore patrol vessel. We contributed £2 million to the assisted voluntary return project through the International Organisation for Migration office in Greece from January 2014 to 2016. The UK has allocated up to £34 million to the humanitarian response in Greece, including £8 million to the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, £11.5 million to the Start non-governmental organisations, more than £1 million to the IOM, and more than £1.8 million of essential supplies, including more than 3,100 tents for more than 15,600 people, 60,000 blankets, 8,000 sleeping bags, 8,000 sleeping mats, and other basic items. I do not call that not standing up for people in need. We have contributed vessels and resources to Italy to support efforts in the central Mediterranean, including a chartered Border Force vessel as part of Frontex’s Operation Triton, and one officer in the Rome maritime rescue co-ordination centre. The UK has also directly supported the German Government with returns.

The Government recognise that there are problems with elements of CEAS, as has been highlighted by the migration crisis. It is necessary to develop an asylum and migration framework in Europe that works to control illegal migration, deters abuse and prevents secondary movement. However, that does not mean that the Government agree with all the Commission’s suggested policy options, or indeed that they are in the UK’s national interest.

I recognise that there are positive elements in these proposals, but not opting in means that we can retain the flexibility and sovereignty of the UK system and provides the UK with greater scope to continue tackling abuse of that system. The SNP raised the point that the new asylum procedure regulation would provide applicants with a right to a personal interview during the asylum process. That conflicts with current UK practice, which provides for an interview to be omitted when an application is made merely to frustrate a removal decision.