Outsourcing: Government Departments

Imran Hussain Excerpts

Wednesday 29th January 2025 Westminster Hall

[Andy McDonald (Middlesbrough and Thornaby East) (Lab)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered outsourcing by Government departments.

It is a pleasure to see you in the Chair, Sir Jeremy. I am pleased to have secured this debate on outsourcing in Government Departments, in which I also intend to discuss the outsourcing of public services more widely, some of the negative consequences of outsourcing and the opportunities of a new wave of insourcing, and to acknowledge that the Government are putting together their national procurement policy, which the Chancellor said last week will be published shortly; I am sure the Minister will have a lot more to say on that.

I wish to draw attention to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests and the support I have received from a number of trade unions that have their own published policies on outsourcing of public services, some of which provided briefings for today’s debate.

First, I wish to set out the background to the outsourcing of public services and its growth in recent decades, before setting out some of the steps I hope the Government will take in the coming days and weeks to begin a new wave of insourcing. I believe there is a prevailing view on the Government Benches that essential public services should be run for the public, not to make a profit for shareholders. An emphasis on competition and markets has undermined the public service ethos associated with public services and has too often worked against the public interest.

[Imran Hussain (Bradford East) (Ind)]

I thank my hon. Friend for his years of work in this area; he has been instrumental in shaping the Government’s policy. All too often, particularly in the public sector, outsourcing is disguised in many shapes and forms, but the reality remains that it is back-door privatisation that leads to lower standards and higher costs. Most importantly, workers are treated as second-class citizens, and it has a disproportionate impact on black, Asian and minority ethnic communities. Does he agree that the central question is the one that was in the new deal: is it in the public interest? The answer is that it never is.

[Andy McDonald]

I thank my hon. Friend for his kind words and wholeheartedly agree with his comments. The whole premise of outsourcing has been to reduce costs, and that is visited on the workforce in terms of pay and other terms and conditions, with the disproportionate impact that he describes, which I will come on to shortly.

All too often, wider social, environmental and economic implications have been eclipsed by the pursuit of narrow short-term cost savings, with an insufficient assessment of the overall costs and longer-term impacts. Since 1979, under the Conservatives, starting with compulsory competitive tendering, there has been a huge growth of private business involvement in public service delivery and its scale. That has resulted in more fragmented, poorer-quality services run by companies seeking to renegotiate contract terms, with staff—often women and minority ethnic employees, as my hon. Friend described—the subject of squeezed terms and salaries.

The last Labour Government invested in public services but did not slow the growth of outsourcing. That allowed the coalition to expand it further, with austerity encouraging public bodies to turn to outsourcing as a means of reducing costs, while ideologically driving it through a White Paper, “Open Public Services”, which argued that few services should be exempt from outsourcing. That is where we were in the run-up to the recent general election, before which Labour set out a clear message on outsourcing.

In February 2021, at the height of the covid pandemic, the now Chancellor set out her concerns about outsourcing. Spend on outsourcing was worth £249 billion in 2014-15, and by 2019-20 had reached £296 billion—a significant sum that dwarfs the NHS budget. She said:

“Outsourced services are not integrated into the fabric of our communities. Unlike our public services and providers, like charities, many of which offer vital frontline services, outsourced companies have not built up trust over time and lack the vital local knowledge and flexibility required.”

Furthermore, she added:

“A shadow state has emerged and it is unaccountable to the people. Even before the pandemic, the government spent an extraordinary £292bn on outsourcing over a third of all public spending and that level is rising year on year. The public pays for these contracts yet so often it cannot adequately scrutinise many of them. This secrecy must stop.”

To set out the case for insourcing, I want to highlight the experience of outsourced workers represented by a number of unions. In the civil service, the Public and Commercial Services Union states that the two-tier gap between directly employed and outsourced workers is widening as pay and terms and conditions for the latter erode, with civil servants reliant on universal credit and workplace food banks. Departments’ budgets are stretched as they deal with the inefficiency of picking up the cost of tendering and awarding contacts, which have to deliver a profit for the contractors.

[Andy McDonald]

My hon. Friend is entirely right. That is yet another example of the tension and conflict between delivering high-quality public services and driving down costs, which leaves the people who deliver the services in poverty. That has to be addressed.

Similarly, in the railways, the RMT says that outsourced workers struggle to make ends meet, and it directly attributes that to outsourcing firms profiting from low pay. Many outsourced workers’ wages are anchored to the minimum wage, and they do not have the right to occupational sick pay and decent pay schemes. The RMT argues that insourcing would not only lift living standards by putting money into people’s pockets, but raise workers’ productivity, tackle structural inequality and even achieve greater efficiency in public spending. It is time to start a wave of insourcing now.

In the civil service, the Government have come into office with numerous disputes having recently taken place, or currently taking place, between outsourced service contractors and their employees, including various instances of industrial action. That is disruptive and costly to the civil service, and it is a result of those service providers holding down the pay of their staff, particularly in facilities maintenance areas such as cleaning, catering and security.

PCS, the union representing those workers, wrote to the Prime Minister in mid-July to discuss matters faced by workers across the UK civil service, including those working in contracted out and devolved areas. I know that the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster met with the FDA, Prospect and PCS in June, at the earliest opportunity after taking office, but the number of civil service disputes in contracts inherited from the Government’s predecessors requires action. There are multiple disputes involving PCS members employed as cleaners, post room staff, porters, catering and reception staff in several Government Departments, and they are not limited to one outsourced employer, but concern G4S, ISS and OCS.

[Imran Hussain]

My hon. Friend is making a powerful case. In Bradford, there was an attempt at outsourced back-door privatisation, which was successfully fought off by me alongside trade unions. Does he agree that trade unions play a crucial role and that it is shameful that, in the disputes he talks of, many of the organisations that hold public contracts have refused even to recognise trade unions?

[Andy McDonald]

We are giving a lot of attention to the recognition of trade unions. As the Employment Rights Bill progresses, we will want to ensure that that gets proper attention. The people we are talking about are the ones who kept the country going through the covid pandemic. We have come out of that but they are still in dire straits.

I want to mention the dispute involving G4S, as it has resulted in Department for Work and Pensions buildings, including jobcentres, closing for several days. The DWP has been asked to intervene in the dispute and to set out the sanctions it has issued to G4S for failing to deliver its contractual responsibilities. Not many months ago, I was on a picket line outside our jobcentre in Middlesbrough with G4S security guards who were expected to put food on the table at £11.40 per hour—their employer was not the DWP but G4S. We have to ask whether that is a legitimate and moral way to organise our public services.

There are other disputes between the PCS and G4S, ISS and OCS in the Department for Business and Trade, the Department for Education, the Department for Energy Security and Net Zero, the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office, the Department for Science, Innovation and Technology and the Cabinet Office. The Government should intervene and ensure that the Government Property Agency meets PCS to help reach a conclusion with the outsourced firms.

We need a hard stop to new outsourcing, because not only have the Government inherited poorly performing outsourced contracts, but there is concern that they might be about to re-let to private providers that have already failed in His Majesty’s Prison and Probation Service. In the halcyon days when I was a member of Select Committees, we made trips to other jurisdictions and we were met with horror by other parliamentarians who found it anathema that prisons were in private hands. They thought that it was contradictory and unacceptable for anybody other than the state to be involved in incarceration. There is a fundamental question we need to ask ourselves.

The Government have the opportunity to put this right by insourcing facilities and estates management, rather than increasing the profits of private companies. If prisoners are living in squalor, those union members are working in squalor. Just as unions have argued that it is not too late to invite in-house tenders, it is now time to invest in existing prisons—not just new prisons—by ensuring that the Prison Service runs its own maintenance and facilities management.

Prison maintenance in England and Wales was fully privatised in 2015, with Amey winning the contract for the north and Carillion the one for the south, later replaced by Gov Facilities Services Ltd—GFSL—which took over its contracts. A race to the bottom continued, and 10 years later there is widespread prison squalor and an estimated maintenance backlog of almost £2 billion.

Amey and GFSL’s contracts were extended in 2020 and are up for renewal over the coming months. The prison unions are calling for maintenance to be brought back in-house—not with GFSL, but with a return to full works departments in every establishment. However, the Government have previously stated that the public sector will not be invited to bid for the new contracts, after a 2023 assessment apparently determined that a privatised solution was the preferred option for meeting prison maintenance service needs.

It was welcome that the Prisons Minister, Lord Timpson, recently promised:

“As future prison maintenance contracts approach expiry, we will conduct detailed assessments to inform decisions about whether to continue to outsource services”.—[Official Report, House of Lords, 23 January 2025; Vol. 842, c. 1804.]

I was pleased to hear the Prisons Minister tell the House yesterday that the Government still have an open mind on maintenance contracts. The private sector has completely failed to deliver on its promises around prison maintenance, with staff, inmates and the taxpayer all paying the price. Will the Minister explain why the Government seem to be following the last Government’s privatisation plans, despite the obvious failure of running key prison services for profit?

The Minister set out to the House last autumn how the new national procurement policy framework would be a legal framework to deliver greater value for money and improve social value, which the previous policy statement did not do. Will the Minister give some indication as to whether the framework might be founded upon such a review?

The task before the Government is twofold. First, in the civil service, the Government must intervene in industrial disputes and ensure that public services are not disrupted by contractors prioritising profit over public service and at the expense of public servants’ livelihoods. Secondly, I encourage the Government not to enter into any further outsourced contract arrangements in the civil service or elsewhere before a review into the costs and impact of the outsourcing is complete, and before a new strategy setting out the case for a new wave of insourcing has been published. I agree with the PCS proposal to

“seek an agreement on a programme of civil service insourcing and rights for contractor staff. Whilst services remain outsourced”

the PCS

“seek an agreement on union recognition for all facilities management workers and selected outsourced staff. A key element of that agreement would be parity for private sector workers with civil servants in respect of pay and terms and conditions of employment.”

Similarly, Unison has set out its concern:

“Any decisions by public bodies to outsource any services should have to pass a key public interest test.”

That test should consider: the quality of the service that would be delivered; value for money; the effects on workers’ job conditions, such as pay and holiday entitlements; the implications for other public services and their budgets; the impact on the local economy and its job market; and the ability of the contractor to meet climate targets and equality considerations. Unison has also said that

“the test should be applied to contracts coming up for renewal whilst providing services in-house should become the default position.”

I wholeheartedly agree with that notion.

In her speech in 2021, the Chancellor said that

“under Keir Starmer’s Labour government we will see the biggest wave of insourcing of public services for a generation.”

It is now time to deliver just that.

Action Against Houthi Maritime Attacks

Imran Hussain Excerpts

Tuesday 23rd January 2024 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

It is clear that the Houthis’ behaviour is damaging the people of Yemen. We have talked previously about the importance of the supply of food into Yemen, but the destruction of oil infrastructure also deprives the Yemeni people of key revenue. These are all topics with which we are engaged with our Saudi partners. We very much support the negotiations. As my hon. Friend knows, a deal was announced in December. We would like to see a lasting peace and security for the Yemeni people for an inclusive political settlement, and I can assure him that, diplomatically, we are working very hard to achieve that aim.

[Imran Hussain (Bradford East) (Lab)]

The Prime Minister rightly states that the majority of this House supports a two-state solution to bring a lasting peace, but that is clearly not shared by the Israeli Prime Minister, Netanyahu, members of his far- right Cabinet, or the Israeli ambassador to the UK, who openly advocated genocide on the UK airwaves. They have all rejected an independent state of Palestine. Will the Prime Minister make it clear to the Israeli Prime Minister that he condemns his comments, which stand in the way of peace? Will he also condemn the vile comments of the Israeli ambassador, who labelled every building in Gaza as a legitimate target for the Israeli military?

[The Prime Minister]

The Foreign Secretary will be in the region this week and will reiterate what I have said publicly and from this Dispatch Box: we are absolutely committed to a two-state solution. We believe that is the right outcome for the people in the region. We want Palestinians and Israelis to be able to live side by side in peace, security and dignity, and we will redouble our efforts to bring about that outcome.

Israel and Gaza

Imran Hussain Excerpts

Monday 16th October 2023 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I thank my hon. Friend for everything he does to support the Jewish community in our country. I join him in saying that these acts are appalling. I want to make sure that we provide security and relieve the anxiety in the Jewish community here in the United Kingdom, which is why I quickly took steps last week to provide that reassurance. I am clear that where people incite racial or religious hatred, or where people’s conduct is threatening, abusive or disorderly or causes distress to others, we expect the police to take action, and those committing such crimes should face the full force of the law.

[Imran Hussain (Bradford East) (Lab)]

I join this House in its condemnation of the bloodshed in Israel and Palestine. The 2 million Palestinians in the open-air prison of Gaza faced a dire humanitarian emergency long before today, yet indiscriminate airstrikes and siege tactics have turned what was a critical emergency into a devastating catastrophe. Will the Prime Minister make it clear to the Israeli Government that laying siege to civilians in Gaza by cutting off food, water, power and medical supplies and through indiscriminate airstrikes killing civilians is in clear violation of international law? Just what is the international community doing to stop the horrific and inhuman treatment of Palestinians?

[The Prime Minister]

I again point out gently to the hon. Gentleman that Hamas are the entity responsible for the suffering we are seeing, and Hamas alone. Of course we in the international community will do our best to alleviate the impact on innocent people, which is why we have today announced further aid to the region. We will make sure that we provide as much humanitarian support as we can and indeed, in all our conversations with leaders around the region, we are discussing the humanitarian situation and finding ways to work together to alleviate the impact on innocent lives, and that is what we will continue to do.

Oral Answers to Questions

Imran Hussain Excerpts

Wednesday 18th January 2023 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is right that that is a priority for all our constituents, and he is right to highlight our new deal with France, which increases funded patrols on French beaches by 40%. As he said, we must go further to solve the problem once and for all, which means introducing new legislation that makes it unequivocally clear that if someone enters the UK illegally, they should not be able to stay here, but will instead be swiftly detained and removed.

[Imran Hussain (Bradford East) (Lab)]

Last night, the BBC revealed that the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office knew the extent of Narendra Modi’s involvement in the Gujarat massacre that paved the way for the persecution of Muslims and other minorities that we see in India today. Senior diplomats reported that the massacre could not have taken place without the “climate of impunity” created by Modi and that he was, in the FCDO’s words, “directly responsible” for the violence. Given that hundreds were brutally killed and that families across India and the world, including here in the UK, are still without justice, does the Prime Minister agree with his Foreign Office diplomats that Modi was directly responsible? What more does the Foreign Office know about Modi’s involvement in that grave act of ethnic cleansing?

[The Prime Minister]

The UK Government’s position on that is clear and long standing, and it has not changed. Of course, we do not tolerate persecution anywhere, but I am not sure that I agree at all with the characterisation that the hon. Gentleman has put forward.

Worker Protection (Amendment of Equality Act 2010) Bill

Imran Hussain Excerpts

2nd reading
Friday 21st October 2022 Commons Chamber

[Imran Hussain (Bradford East) (Lab)]

I thank the hon. Member for Bath (Wera Hobhouse) for bringing this important Bill to the House. She spoke very well to make the case for the great need for a change in the legislation.

I will be brief, because I am keen for this Bill to progress to the next stage. Last year, the Fawcett Society released harrowing research into sexual harassment in the workplace showing that, despite the bravery of the #MeToo movement in coming forward to challenge abuses of power by employers and others in the workplace, harassment, particularly sexual harassment, remains a deeply concerning problem that should worry us all. Two in five women report that they have faced harassment in the workplace.

What is more, a report from the Government Equalities Office has indicated that 80% of women who have faced harassment in the workplace do not go on to report it. I am sure all of us on both sides of the House are committed to stamping out that abhorrent behaviour and abuse, and the Opposition stand committed to this Bill. After all, by making employers liable for harassment committed by clients and customers, the Bill reintroduces the provisions that the last Labour Government introduced under the Equality Act 2010, but that the Tory-led coalition Government ditched in 2013, claiming that the protections imposed an unnecessary burden on business.

Let me be clear: protecting people from harassment, especially in the workplace, is never a burden; it is a responsibility. Nine years since the protections were first removed, it is welcome that the Government have finally realised the error of their decision. However, we should not have had to wait so long for them to do so, especially given that, like so many of this Government’s initiatives, the consultation on strengthening protections against harassment in the workplace was launched back in 2019.

Labour supports the Bill, but I repeat that the Government should never have repealed those important protections for working people. We should be dramatically extending the protection already available, rather than having to reintroduce it.

Health and Social Care Update

Imran Hussain Excerpts

Thursday 22nd September 2022 Commons Chamber

[Dr Coffey]

I appreciate the requests from my hon. Friend, and it is important that we get through this. It will be done on a local level. I cannot specifically say when that will be confirmed, but I know that in Kent, in particular, there is a lot of work still to be done.

[Imran Hussain (Bradford East) (Lab)]

Two weeks to see your GP—is that a target or joke? I know how many of my constituents will see it. Surely the Health Secretary will understand that we must first address the underlying rampant health inequalities in many of our cities. In that regard, will she lend her support to Bradford’s levelling-up bid for £20 million for grassroots, transformational, community-led health centres, which will make sure that we make a real difference to tackling health inequalities in our district?

[Dr Coffey]

I am not aware specifically about Bradford; we are still at a very early stage of going through that data and analysis. But of course I expect the local health service to work carefully with local GPs to make sure that people who need care receive it.

UK Energy Costs

Imran Hussain Excerpts

Thursday 8th September 2022 Commons Chamber

[Imran Hussain (Bradford East) (Lab)]

We must not forget that for months this Tory Government saw the oncoming tidal wave of rising energy bills this winter, but chose to do nothing about it. For months they callously and deliberately left people in limbo, creating unimaginable uncertainty for those who face colossal energy bills this Christmas, and for months they let fear spread among those preparing to make a desperate choice between heating their homes or putting food on the table. What is worse, however, is that for months the current Prime Minister, who was a Minister in this Government for a decade, was content to go along with this grossly negligent plan of inaction, wasting valuable time when we could have been protecting people.

Today we heard the Prime Minister, at the Dispatch Box, refer a number of times to “immediate” and “urgent” support. That is disingenuous, frankly. The Prime Minister cannot suddenly pretend that she entered the Government just today. She has been a senior Minister in previous Governments for the last decade, and she could have taken action—along with the previous Government—months ago, rather than putting people through this uncertainty.

As is customary among Conservative Members, there have been a number of instances of smoke and mirrors. We have heard numerous references to a price freeze, but it is simply not true that prices are being frozen. As has been pointed out by other Members, what we are seeing is a rise of at least £500 in the price that people are currently paying, and a rise of hundreds of pounds more in the price that they were paying originally—hundreds of pounds more than my constituents can afford to pay.

There has also been silence from the Prime Minister on who will actually pay for this. What is crystal clear—the Prime Minister has spelled it out—is that those who will not pay for it are the corporate oil and gas barons who have made a profit of £170 billion. In this, her first week as Prime Minister, she has made her direction of travel absolutely clear: she will go on driving a wedge between those who continue to become wealthier and those who continue to suffer poverty, and she will always side with the big corporations rather than with ordinary working people.

Confidence in Her Majesty’s Government

Imran Hussain Excerpts

Monday 18th July 2022 Commons Chamber

[Ian Blackford]

Thank you, Mr Speaker, although I have to say that I agree with the hon. Gentleman. This is important. These are matters that are of interest to the public, and we need to treat each other with a degree of respect and dignity.

Let us come back to the Prime Minister. He broke his own laws in office and he broke international law, but the thing that ultimately brought him down was the fact that he could never, ever be trusted with the truth. That is the record, and that is now the Prime Minister’s legacy. He should not be allowed any room to rewrite that record and that legacy—even for seven weeks. It has not escaped anyone’s notice that this Prime Minister has lived his life thinking that the world owes him a living. He has not had the grace to stay today to hear the opening speeches in this debate. That tells us everything that we need to know.

[Imran Hussain (Bradford East) (Lab)]

The right hon. Member is making an excellent speech. The Prime Minister today spoke for 30 minutes, and not once in what could be his last speech did he make reference to the real fact that because of the political decisions that he has made, children are living in poverty, working families are using food banks and our communities have been devastated. Does the right hon. Member agree that, in his last speech, the Prime Minister should at least have had the dignity to apologise to the children in our country?

[Ian Blackford]

I agree with the hon. Member, and I commend him for the passion that he brings to this topic. The fact that so many people in this country are struggling, and that so many people will be struggling over the cost of living crisis, should concern us all.

Oral Answers to Questions

Imran Hussain Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd February 2022 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I am only too happy—thrilled—to visit my hon. Friend in Meriden at any time.

[Imran Hussain (Bradford East) (Lab)]

6. The right hon. Member for Sherwood (Mark Spencer) is currently under investigation for Islamophobia, following accusations that he told a fellow MP that her being a Muslim was making colleagues uncomfortable. How did the Government punish this behaviour? With a promotion that puts the accused Member in charge of the complaints procedure. Of course, we all know that the Prime Minister himself is no stranger to derogatory remarks about Muslim women, so let me ask the Prime Minister—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. This is not the appropriate place to be raising that. We now go to Nickie Aiken.

Oral Answers to Questions

Imran Hussain Excerpts

Wednesday 1st December 2021 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

Yes, of course, we are very happy to help Gedling and other Labour-run councils to get their act together where necessary and to put in those bids. Just to remind my hon. Friend, more levelling-up fund bids come due in the spring of next year, and I wish Gedling well in its future bids.

[Imran Hussain (Bradford East) (Lab)]

Q12. My grandfather, along with thousands of others, came to this country 70 years ago, working seven days a week in squalid conditions to help rebuild this country. Now, the Home Secretary’s Nationality and Borders Bill means that she can revoke our British citizenship and deport us for even the most minor wrongdoings. Given the horrific track record of the Government and the Home Office, with their treatment of minorities, the hostile environment and the Windrush scandal, let me ask the Prime Minister the burning question that is now on the lips of everyone from a black, Asian and minority ethnic background right across the country, “When is he coming for me?”

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Gentleman should look at the Conservative Front Bench today, and he should withdraw what he has just said—he should withdraw it. What he said was absolutely shameful, and, as he knows full well, the Nationality and Borders Bill does nothing of the kind. It helps us to fight the evil gangs who are predating on people’s willingness to cross the channel in unseaworthy boats and I would have thought that a sensible Labour party would support it.