Shared Prosperity Fund: Wales

Debate between Ian C. Lucas and Guto Bebb

Wednesday 14th November 2018 Westminster Hall

[Ian C. Lucas]

It is interesting, isn’t it? The EU rules apply EU-wide, so there is a certain logic in a UK prosperity fund having UK rules that apply across a single market within the United Kingdom. I would not want a race to the bottom as a result of rules being applied differently in different countries of the United Kingdom, so I understand the argument for applying a single set of rules so that we do not have state aid in one area being weighed against another—just as the same general EU rules have applied across the UK despite devolution.

This debate is an important one, but we have not had it yet. That was a big mistake, because we could have spent the past 18 months or two years discussing these hugely important issues. I would like that to start today, and I will be very interested to hear the contributions of colleagues.

[Guto Bebb (Aberconwy) (Con)]

The hon. Gentleman is right to say that this is important. The issue is of concern to local authorities and further education colleges in north Wales, but does he agree that, as a result of the efforts to get the north Wales growth deal on board, it is at least being discussed by the relevant stakeholders there? It is therefore a very opportune moment to ensure that comments made in north Wales are listened to, both in Westminster and in Cardiff Bay.

[Ian C. Lucas]

The hon. Gentleman has read my speech, too—I was planning to go on to the north Wales growth deal. I am passionate about regional policy and devolving powers to the nations and regions, but the Government should be giving a lead. It is their responsibility to compensate for market failures with engineering investment to improve a part of our economy that the market on its own would leave behind.

There is agreement across the political spectrum that the present system has not worked as it should for the benefit of all the nations and regions of the UK. We need to reflect on the result of the referendum and ask why investment from the structural funds, for example, has not achieved as much as we would all have liked.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Ian C. Lucas and Guto Bebb

Wednesday 13th December 2017 Commons Chamber

[Guto Bebb]

I do indeed remember the visit to Chester, which was a great success. I am proud to say that the new northern powerhouse Minister was at the briefing we had in the Wales Office on Monday. Businesses and local authorities in north Wales understand the power of the northern powerhouse, but we also know that north Wales has a lot to offer to the northern powerhouse, and this cross-border deal is essential to the economic wellbeing of north Wales.

[Ian C. Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

Will the Minister meet the all-party group on Mersey-Dee-north Wales to discuss the detail of the growth deal, and will he please show me the colour of his money?

[Guto Bebb]

The hon. Gentleman is the chair of the all-party group and I would be delighted to meet it. I am well aware of the work it has done. This is a deal for north Wales, which means we will have to work with all stakeholders and all partners, including the hon. Gentleman.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Ian C. Lucas and Guto Bebb

Wednesday 1st November 2017 Commons Chamber

[Guto Bebb]

I thank my hon. Friend for that comment. It is indeed disappointing that we are still waiting for a relief road for Newport. I understand that the Welsh Government are going for another consultation, but it is imperative for the sake of the economy of south Wales and the south Wales valleys that we see action on a relief road for Newport sooner rather than later.

[Ian C. Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

11. I was pleased that the Minister mentioned the north Wales growth bid. It is now 10 years since the step change in services between Chester and Shrewsbury that was caused by the introduction of an hourly service. Does he agree with everyone else in north Wales that it is high time that that step change was repeated through the reintroduction of the north Wales growth bid and better transport services across the border?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Ian C. Lucas and Guto Bebb

Wednesday 6th September 2017 Commons Chamber

[Guto Bebb]

The Wales Office is committed to maintaining the employment growth stats that we have experienced in Wales in the past seven years. The investment that the Secretary of State mentioned from Aston Martin is a fine example of our ability to attract investment into Wales that will create high-quality jobs.

[Ian C. Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

Employment trends within Wales are important, too. What on earth, as a north Wales MP, is the Minister doing supporting the transfer of Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs jobs from Wrexham to Cardiff city centre?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Ian C. Lucas and Guto Bebb

Wednesday 26th April 2017 Commons Chamber

[Guto Bebb]

I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend. We have a great relationship with my hon. Friend the Member for Brigg and Goole (Andrew Percy), the Minister for the northern powerhouse. A north Wales growth deal is essential for north Wales because the northern powerhouse needs north Wales, and north Wales needs the northern powerhouse. We will ensure that that happens if we are re-elected.

[Ian C. Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

Warm words build no roads and no railways. We have had enough of warm words from this Government. What we want is investment in north Wales. For the first time, show us the money.

[Guto Bebb]

I am disappointed by the comments of the hon. Gentleman, who was at the meeting with me yesterday with the Under-Secretary of State for Transport, my hon. Friend the Member for Harrogate and Knaresborough (Andrew Jones). More importantly, he should highlight, for example, the huge investment in the new Berwyn prison in Wrexham, which is creating jobs and has been seen as an example of how to do public sector investment in Wales and the UK.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Ian C. Lucas and Guto Bebb

Wednesday 8th March 2017 Commons Chamber

[Ian C. Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

2. What recent discussions he has had with the Chancellor of the Exchequer on infrastructure investment in north Wales.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Guto Bebb)]

My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State and I hold regular discussions with colleagues from across Government to champion the people and businesses of north Wales. Our commitment to north Wales is demonstrated by the Government’s £212 million investment in HMP Berwyn, and we have opened the door to a north Wales growth deal further to strengthen the region’s economy.

[Ian C. Lucas]

The Mersey Dee Alliance meets tomorrow in Wrexham at Glyndwr University. It has presented a coherent and effective transport plan for improving links between north Wales and the rest of the country. Will the Government give us not just warm words, but a financial commitment to north Wales to match the investment put in by the Welsh Government?

[Guto Bebb]

The hon. Gentleman knows that the plans that he supports for better connectivity between north Wales and the north-west of England are also strongly supported by the Wales Office. The proposals made by stakeholders in north Wales are being given serious consideration, but I would not want to prejudge any financial decision made by other Departments here in Westminster.

Wales Bill

Debate between Ian C. Lucas and Guto Bebb

Ping Pong: House of Commons
Tuesday 24th January 2017 Commons Chamber

[Guto Bebb]

I dispute the view that there will be no direct line of accountability between Welsh Ministers and Ofwat. There will be an opportunity to consult and work through the Secretary of State. The protocol that is being put in place will also address that issue in more detail in due course. However, hon. Members should welcome the fact that we are moving in that direction on the mature basis of a protocol between the two Governments.

[Ian C. Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

Will the Minister clarify the position on the Competition and Markets Authority? Its regulatory role is very relevant to water. Will it be accountable to the Welsh Government and the Assembly?

Exiting the EU: Businesses in Wales

Debate between Ian C. Lucas and Guto Bebb

Wednesday 14th December 2016 Westminster Hall

[Guto Bebb]

As a Minister in the Wales Office, I fully accept that small businesses have concerns—indeed, all businesses in all sectors of the economy in Wales have concerns—but they also see opportunities, and we have heard precious little on those opportunities in this debate. The Secretary of State for Wales and I have been out dealing with stakeholders regularly—those in the farming industry, the third sector, the university sector and the further education sector; businesses small and large; the Confederation of British Industry; the Institute of Directors; and the Federation of Small Businesses. We have been talking to all those stakeholders. We have been doing that because this change—the decision made by the people of Wales and the United Kingdom to leave the European Union—is huge, so it is imperative that we talk to individuals, businesses and stakeholders who will be affected.

A Government who were arrogant enough to think that they had all the answers are not a Government I would want to be a part of. The fantastic thing about my involvement in the Wales Office since March has been the opportunity to meet so many stakeholders in Wales and listen to what they want from the decision that was made to leave the European Union.

[Ian C. Lucas]

I am grateful to the Minister for showing his usual courtesy in giving way a great deal. Will he give me an example of one opportunity arising from Brexit that the university sector has told him about?

[Guto Bebb]

The hon. Gentleman asks an important question. I have to respond in the same way as some of the hon. Members who mentioned businesses in their constituency but indicated an unwillingness to name them. I was recently in discussion with a university in Wales that saw huge potential to increase its attractiveness to students from outside the European Union; however, it is not a case of either/or. It wants to attract an increasing number of students from outside the European Union, but it also wants to ensure that it keeps the markets that it has in the European Union. These discussions are wide-ranging, and it is fair to say that the responses that we are getting, even from the further and higher education sector, are not as negative as the hon. Gentleman implies.

Post Offices in Wales

Debate between Ian C. Lucas and Guto Bebb

Tuesday 13th September 2016 Westminster Hall

[Guto Bebb]

The hon. Gentleman raises an interesting point. It is difficult for me to comment on the particular situation in the village he mentioned, but in terms of the overall picture, the commitment to community post offices has been strong. For example, where a community post office is transferred to new ownership, the community status is maintained. I am more than happy to take representations in written format in relation to the particular village in question, but it is difficult for me to comment at this point in time.

Out of courtesy to the hon. Member for Wrexham, I should say that, although this is a debate about post offices in Wales, his comments were primarily about disability access in Wrexham. I understand the situation there. I was in Wrexham last Friday morning, speaking to a business professionals group, and Wrexham is in a very interesting situation. It is a thriving town in many ways, but there have been a number of retail developments in parts of Wrexham that have changed the centre of gravity on the high street.

I know Wrexham fairly well, having been born in the vicinity a long time ago. The changes on Wrexham high street are a concern to the hon. Gentleman; I fully appreciate that. I am also well aware, from reading the north Wales papers that he has highlighted, of the number of empty premises in Wrexham. It is important to note that the post office in Wrexham remains a Crown post office. Unlike the many agreements with WHSmith, the post office is run by Post Office members of staff. It is hosted by WHSmith but remains an independent Crown post office.

The hon. Gentleman’s summary of how the public consultation took place is similar to that provided by my officials. There was a six-week consultation period, which is par for the course when there is a possibility of moving a Crown post office to new premises. There must be a plan in place for accessibility. I understand that fewer than 10% of such moves have resulted in a post office facility being on the first floor, but the hon. Gentleman said that any such move is unacceptable.

It is important to note that the Post Office works within its own guidelines. That ensures that there is an assessment of accessibility, and I am more than happy to share those guidelines with the hon. Gentleman if that would be helpful. In addition to following the guidelines, it is necessary to consult and to ensure that people with disabilities have an opportunity to see whether the facilities work, and I understand that the hon. Gentleman attended when that opportunity was afforded. He highlighted that he felt ashamed of what he saw. I am surprised that that disappointment was not reflected in the consultation process. His concerns were not fed back in the wider consultation process.

The question of whether there should ever be a post office on a first floor has been highlighted, and the accessibility issue includes accessibility in terms of the law and the guidelines. The Post Office assures me that on both counts that is the situation in Wrexham. I take fully on board the comments of the hon. Gentleman, but highlight the fact that the process has been followed in accordance with the Post Office’s guidelines and ensuring accessibility. The hon. Gentleman is clearly of the view that that is unacceptable, but his comments have been heard by the Post Office today.

[Ian C. Lucas]

I objected to the proposal. I visited the store the day before the post office was to open, which was after the decision had been made. Only at that point did I see what the arrangements were because they had not been constructed at the time of my initial objection. That is when I was ashamed of what I saw. It was the first time I had seen them.

[Guto Bebb]

I am grateful for that clarity and, again, I have no doubt that the hon. Gentleman’s comments will be noted.

I understand that since the post office relocated on 18 August, seven customer satisfaction feedback forms have been completed. All have been positive and, again, this issue has not been raised. In addition, it is worth pointing out that the early indications are that footfall at the new post office in Wrexham has increased and customer usage of the facility has increased. I stress that it has been open for only a month and I fully understand that these are early days. The hon. Gentleman still has his concerns but the initial feedback seems to be constructive and positive. I am not in any way ignoring the real concerns that he has raised, but the initial feedback seems to be quite positive.

I should highlight the fact that there is an alternative option in the post office in Wrexham; if someone is unable to access to the first floor facilities, there is a portable till point on the ground floor. That service is made available when any post office counter is on the first floor. I understand that during the month the post office has been operating from WHSmith in Wrexham, that portable facility has not been used, but it would be manned by post office counter staff from upstairs, not by anyone working for WHSmith downstairs. The service would be equivalent to that available upstairs, as would the training required.

It is important to have debates on situations such as that in Wrexham. It is crucial that a service provided to the general public and our electors by the Government with taxpayers’ support is debated in Westminster. We all have our concerns when we hear of post offices being relocated. I had a similar situation in the summer when the Crown post office in Llandudno was relocated to WHSmith, but on the ground floor.

I think I am right in saying that the main concern in Wrexham is not whether the service is of equivalent value or whether the same service is available. The real concern is accessibility. All I can offer the hon. Gentleman is my assurance that the Post Office has operated under its own guidelines and within the law. However, this opportunity to express some of his concerns and those raised by some of his constituents is the right use of this Chamber and ensures that the Post Office hears those concerns.

I turn to other comments that have been made. I emphasise that in general the Post Office is a success story in the Welsh context. We have an obligation to ensure that those services continue at a level that ensures that the needs of people in all parts of Wales are dealt with. It is worth pointing out that 90% of the post offices in Wales that are eligible for the modernisation programme have been through that process. That is a high and positive percentage. There are individual cases that cause concern to Members, but it is fair to say that the overall position is positive and we should be proud of it.

In addition, we should acknowledge the significant work that the Post Office has done to ensure that the provision of services is as good as it has been during a period when the subsidy paid by the Government has reduced considerably. We have a leaner, more efficient and more effective Post Office, yet there has been only a very small fall in the number of post offices operating in Wales since 2010.

I can offer no significant assurance to the hon. Gentleman about the situation in Wrexham, but I am sure we can share the Post Office guidelines with him. He can then discuss the provision in Wrexham and communicate the basis on which the process was undertaken to his constituents who are interested, and in some cases distressed, by the changes.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Ian C. Lucas and Guto Bebb

Wednesday 13th July 2016 Commons Chamber

[Guto Bebb]

As the hon. Lady knows, I argued for Wales and the UK to stay within the EU, but the reality is that Wales voted to leave. It is therefore crucial that we support the industries that are dependent on exporting to the EU. We have a quality product offered by Welsh agriculture, so it is imperative that we talk up that market and support the sector to the best of our abilities. Again, I give assurance to the farming unions that the current funding situation is in place until 2018.

[Ian C. Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

Does the Minister agree that leaving the European Union offers a golden opportunity to assess the level of subsidy paid to farming in Wales to see whether that money can be more effectively and efficiently spent in other areas?

[Guto Bebb]

We need to look at the way in which Government spend money. If there is to be a funding mechanism in the future for Welsh agriculture, it must be looked at in the totality of Government spending. However, it is pretty important to state that more than 60,000 jobs in Wales are dependent on the agriculture sector, and it would be short-sighted in the extreme for any Government to turn their back on a sector that puts Wales on the international map.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Ian C. Lucas and Guto Bebb

Wednesday 25th May 2016 Commons Chamber

[Guto Bebb]

I welcome the hon. Gentleman to his place. I am aware that the Wales Office has been working with local government and the Welsh Government in relation to the Pencoed issue. I would be delighted to meet the hon. Gentleman—after all, my first by-election was in Ogmore. It was a very wet by-election. I would be delighted to meet residents of Pencoed once again.

[Ian C. Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

There is great momentum in north Wales and north-west England to improve transport links. This is a time for the Welsh Government and the UK Government to work together to improve those links. May we therefore have candour? The £43 million that the Minister referred to was actually investment by the Welsh Government, so will the UK Government step up to the plate and invest a penny piece in infrastructure in north Wales? That would be very welcome.

[Guto Bebb]

It is important and imperative that we work together—the Welsh Government, local authorities and the UK Government—in developing transport links throughout north Wales. That is why we have opened the door for a north Wales growth deal, on which we are working in partnership with the Mersey Dee Alliance and the North Wales Economic Ambition Board. The hon. Gentleman is right to say that a real, effective change in north Wales will depend upon co-operation between Westminster and the Welsh Government.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Ian C. Lucas and Guto Bebb

Wednesday 13th April 2016 Commons Chamber

[Ian C. Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

Thank you, Mr Speaker. I welcome the Minister to his post. Is he aware that the callous policy of the Conservative Government of implementing personal independence payments is leading to many people being prevented from working because Motability cars are being taken away from them, which prevents them from being able to travel to work? Will he speak to the Prime Minister, who is sitting next to him, to try to talk some sense into him?

[Guto Bebb]

I find the hon. Gentleman’s comments slightly disappointing. When he looks at all the changes in the employment situation in his constituency, he should welcome this Government’s work on welfare reform. The welfare reform changes that we are putting in place are contributing to behavioural change, leading to more people supporting their own families and contributing to the economy. When he looks at the statistics for the Wrexham constituency, he should welcome the changes, instead of condemning them.

Macur Review of Historical Child Abuse

Debate between Ian C. Lucas and Guto Bebb

Tuesday 22nd March 2016 Westminster Hall

[Ian C. Lucas]

I accept many of the arguments that the Minister makes, but why were the two names I mentioned earlier unredacted while many other names were redacted?

[Guto Bebb]

I will try to respond to that in my next few comments. Just to finish the comments I was making, I understand the frustration and the feeling that there could have been fewer redactions, but it is imperative that the reasoning, in the round, is understood by hon. Members. I have tried to explain why those redactions have been made. I have explained very clearly that they were undertaken as a result of advice given, which I think was quite reasonable. I hope that hon. Members will take that into account. There has been no attempt to mislead or to not be very clear as to the basis for the changes. We are more than happy to correspond on the issue if the hon. Member for Wrexham feels the need to take it any further.

--- Later in debate ---

[Guto Bebb]

I take the hon. Gentleman’s point but hon. Members have made arguments that the redactions are damaging public confidence. I am unsure how the idea he offers would contribute to solving the issue of public confidence because a very limited amount of people in the political sphere would be responding. A couple of other questions were asked by the hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd—

[Ian C. Lucas]

Will the Minister give way?

[Guto Bebb]

Could I just answer this question because I am aware of the time? Another question was asked by the hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd about recommendation five. The issue relates to the consideration of criminal charges relating to events referred to in paragraphs 645 to 675 of the report. It does not relate to the actions of the Wales Office or of any Government Department. The police and Crown Prosecution Service are aware of the specifics of the matter, and that issue is a matter for them to consider, not the Government.

The hon. Members for Clwyd South and for Dwyfor Meirionnydd asked how many redactions, in addition to those that were a result of the advice given, were made by the Government. The answer is zero. Not a single further redaction was made. The redactions that have been made were all in accordance with the advice given and the explanation that has been provided.

The hon. Member for Wrexham asked about the publication of some names and not others. Again, the letter from the Treasury Solicitor sets out the methodology for redacting such names, saying very clearly that they are the names of people who are rumoured or speculated to be involved in abuse, who have not been convicted of a criminal offence and/or whose name is not in the public domain in the context of child abuse. That is in the letter from the Treasury Solicitor so the reasoning has been provided.

[Ian C. Lucas]

I do not accept for one moment that those principles apply to the name Peter Morrison. I do not think that any reasonable person could reach that conclusion. That name is in the public domain and it is in the report. I cannot understand why that name has been redacted. The redaction of that one name has had a massive impact on the public confidence in the whole report.

[Guto Bebb]

I hear what the hon. Gentleman is saying but I have attempted to provide an explanation as to why the redactions have been as they have been.

I need to touch on a few other issues. I do not think there is any denial of the inadequate nature of the records management, which is a point that was raised by my right hon. Friend the Member for Clwyd West (Mr Jones). It is acknowledged that the records management has been poor. It was not to anybody’s satisfaction and it is fair to say that lessons have been learned by the Wales Office, and I presume that the Welsh Assembly will take some of the report’s advice on records retention very seriously. However, it is fair to state that Lady Justice Macur is clear that she received

“the majority of, if not all, relevant documentation”

and that she is

“confident in the conclusions I reach in this Report in light of numerous, varied and cumulative sources of information available”.

Again, that is not the Government’s line. That is a comment from Lady Macur regarding the lack of record-keeping or the problematic element of the record-keeping.

An important point is contained in paragraph 2.6 of the report, in which Lady Macur states quite clearly that 523 boxes of files were received, some 400 of which originated from the Wales Office. Although that is unsatisfactory compared with what we would expect from a Government Department, I stress the fact that Lady Macur does not believe that her conclusions would have been different if she had received more information than that which was provided.

We have touched on establishment names only very quickly. I have tried to explain why redactions have happened, and we are more than happy to respond to any further questions from hon. Members who believe that there is an issue there.

The other point that I would like to touch upon just before I finish is that Lady Justice Macur adds, for the sake of clarity,

“At no time have Ministers or their officials attempted to influence me in the conduct of the review or the conclusions I have drawn.”

There is a view here that there is a lack of transparency and clarity but, on every aspect, we have tried to offer an explanation and even Lady Justice Macur has said that she was not subject to any undue pressure.

I do not think I will have time to respond to the question from the hon. Member for Arfon (Hywel Williams) about the Welsh language or to the question from the hon. Member for Clwyd South about the Goddard inquiry, but I will write to both Members.

The debate has been difficult and there are lessons to be learned. We will write to the Children’s Commissioner for Wales and respond to any further questions. The Macur report was certainly worth doing and it has been of value.

English Votes for English Laws and North Wales

Debate between Ian C. Lucas and Guto Bebb

Wednesday 1st July 2015 Westminster Hall

[Ian C. Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Guto Bebb]

I will take only one intervention, because of the time.

[Ian C. Lucas]

What is an English-only law?

[Guto Bebb]

That is a key point. We have to have some confidence in the ability of this House and Parliament as a whole to come to a conclusion and define a specific law as English, English and Welsh, or UK-wide. The hon. Gentleman has highlighted a crucial point: we are talking as if a deal has been done, but the detail of the Government’s proposals has not yet been announced—

[Ian C. Lucas]

Give us an example.

[Guto Bebb]

In my view, it is clear that many Bills will be categorised as English and Welsh. In many cases, they will be categorised as UK-wide. Nevertheless, we have to accept that there is a principle that needs to be dealt with.

Finally, my hon. Friend the Member for Eddisbury (Antoinette Sandbach), who was previously a colleague of mine in North Wales, made an important point: anyone who believes in devolution cannot be very pleased with how the Welsh Assembly has worked, because it has sucked power into Cardiff. I want to stress, however, that that is not necessarily a failure of devolution; I would argue that it is a failure of how the Labour party has dealt with devolution in Wales.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ian C. Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

I will be brief, Mr Crausby. The definition of an English-only law is crucial to this debate. The problem is that the Government are leaving us completely in the dark. We are having this debate only because my hon. Friend the Member for Ynys Môn (Albert Owen), whom I congratulate, initiated it. I tabled a question for the Secretary of State for Wales about what consultation he had had with the people of Wales on proposals for English votes for English laws. That question was transferred to the Leader of the House. I believe that virtually no consultation has taken place.

[Guto Bebb]

rose—

[Ian C. Lucas]

I do not have time to give way, as the hon. Gentleman well knows.

Not only has the Secretary of State not consulted the people of Wales, but he has not consulted Members of Parliament. There has been no discussion whatever with MPs on the issue. That is a crucial point. Mr Speaker will need to have the wisdom of Solomon to determine what is an English-only law. The first thing he should do is visit North Wales and Cheshire. Our region is unique in the United Kingdom and exemplifies why this question is so difficult.

I expect nationalists to divide, separate and try to have a culture of blame between each part of our country. I do not expect those of us who believe in the United Kingdom to argue in favour of division or separateness. Whatever our political background, we should stand together to work out a proper way of doing this, with consultation. That is what we need.

I will make a proposal. There are Members from North Wales who take a sensible approach to the matter. Representatives of the Mersey Dee Alliance are here in Parliament today. We need an all-party group for the Mersey-Dee region, to put the case in Parliament for a cross-border economic and cultural environment. We have that opportunity within the context of this debate. We need the Government to start to listen. Their ignorance is palpable, and they have closed their ears.

North Wales Economy

Debate between Ian C. Lucas and Guto Bebb

Tuesday 1st April 2014 Westminster Hall

[Guto Bebb]

To be fair, it is important that we should reflect on the concerns of the tourism sector in Aberconwy, and Conwy in general, in relation to the wind farm development. The concern was reflected strongly by local representatives of all political parties in Conwy. Denbighshire councillors saw things differently, but the key thing now is to build on those successes.

The successes of north-east Wales are not for north-east Wales alone. Constituents of mine work in the Airbus factories, and people travel from my constituency to Deeside in 30 or 35 minutes on the A55, if there has not been a crash or an overturned caravan. The economies of north-east and north-west Wales are linked, and things work both ways because a significant number of people from north-east Wales are more than happy to spend their weekends in my constituency, and further west in that of the right hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Mr Llwyd).

I think things are moving in a positive direction. My constituency has the highest dependency on small businesses of any constituency in north Wales. If it were not for the small business community, the economic situation there would be dire indeed. We are experiencing confidence, investment, and the willingness of people to invest in their businesses, whether those businesses are new or are being refurbished. There are recent successes that we should all welcome. The one I am most pleased about is a small coffee shop in Llandudno Junction. In terms of economic change, it is not a big issue—four new employees in a small coffee shop in Llandudno Junction—but that business was funded through crowdfunding. It is the first business that I have seen in my constituency that sought crowdfunding because of the reluctance of banks to lend, which continues to be a big problem. That resulted in a brand-new coffee shop employing people in the Junction. That is the type of innovation from young people that will be key to the success of the north Wales economy.

[Ian Lucas]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Guto Bebb]

I will take one final intervention, because I am aware of the time.

[Ian Lucas]

My interest, which I share with the hon. Gentleman, is in finance for business. Would he support a regional bank for north Wales that was much more attuned to the regional economy, able to understand our local business community and therefore able to make the right decisions on investment?

[Guto Bebb]

There is certainly an argument for that, but let us be fair: our big problem in Wales is the fact that Finance Wales has been such a disastrous failure. Had it stepped into the breach as a lender of last resort supporting businesses, perhaps we would not need a regional bank. Businesses in my constituency, such as those in the Church Walks enterprise hub, which has 40 employees in the high-technology industries, were being charged 7% above base by Finance Wales. That is the type of lending that HSBC and other high street banks have been guilty of charging. When we see a publicly supported bank doing that, I have real concerns.

We are certainly seeing real signs of investment in my constituency. A vital investment has been the refurbishment of the Eagles hotel in Llanrwst. No small town can do without a key hotel, and the closure of the Eagles hotel caused concern about the future of Llanrwst. I welcome its reopening with significant new investment. Furthermore, on Friday, I was in Betwys-y-Coed, reopening the Pont y Pair inn—seven new employees, a significant £150,000 investment and, from what I saw, a guaranteed success. Even better, that investment means that we are selling the local brew, the Conwy Brewery beer; that shows how tourism can interlink with the food and agricultural community. That is the other issue that I want to touch on.

We sometimes forget when talking about the economy of north Wales how important agriculture and the food sector are. In my constituency, we see the links, because there is significant investment in the Bodnant food centre, which is supported by European regional funding; indeed, it is one of the 0.5% of European-funded projects led by the private sector. It is a success; European regional funding might have even greater success if more such projects were led by the private sector, rather than by the dead hand of bureaucracy. The food sector in my constituency is going from strength to strength. The Bodnant food centre is a fantastic success story, but it is building on top of the success of companies such as Blas ar Fwyd and Siwgr a Sbeis. Those companies are delivering for and serving the tourism sector—cafés, restaurants and hotels—and it is as if all the sectors of the economy in my constituency are coming together to give tourists and visitors a distinctly Welsh feel when they come to north Wales.

There is real, large investment in Llandudno, the queen of Welsh resorts, which gave a warm welcome to the Welsh Labour party over the weekend—we were delighted to see them, obviously. For a long time, it has had two large derelict hotels, which have been a stain on the town: the Clarence on Gloddaeth street and the St Tudno hotel, which can link the high street to Parc Llandudno. The good news is that both are being refurbished in multi-million pound investments, and there will be hotels, shops, other retail outlets and cafés in both locations, one at the top end of the high street and the other at the bottom end. They are significant, multi-million pound votes of confidence in the economy of Llandudno. Clearly, we are turning the corner. There will be employment growth and, more importantly, the slight decay that we saw on both sides of the town will be dealt with positively. I pay tribute to Mostyn Estates, to the investors and to the local authority for ensuring that we are dealing with those problems quickly.

The Government are also doing things. They are giving a huge vote of confidence to small businesses. In my constituency, a small partnership business, such as a husband and wife running a guest house, will be able to post a £20,000 profit without paying tax. That money will go back into the business, because running a guest house is like running the Forth bridge—people must keep investing to keep up standards. That tax break of the personal allowance increase is a tax break for businesses, and it makes a big difference in my constituency. The £2,000 rebate on national insurance is another vote of confidence in small businesses that want to employ staff; they will have a tax rebate if they do. Finally, the Welsh Government have seen sense on the small business rate subsidy of £1,000; that was announced by the Chancellor in his autumn statement. It took the Welsh Government four months, but I will not carp about that; I would rather see a correct decision made late in the day than a wrong decision. I welcome the fact that the Welsh Government are following in the footsteps of the Chancellor by ensuring rates relief for small businesses in my constituency.

I will curtail my remarks, having given, I hope, a positive view of how things are developing in my constituency. Of course, Aberconwy is not isolated; it is part of the wider north Wales economy. There are clearly concerns if unemployment figures in some parts of north Wales are increasing. That is not the case in Aberconwy, but we need a successful economy throughout north Wales. We benefit from investment in north-east Wales, just as I am sure that it will benefit from investment in the north-west. The prognosis for the north Wales economy is positive, as long as we have a Government who understand that their responsibility is to support businesses where they can and, most of the time, simply get out of the way.

Lesotho

Debate between Ian C. Lucas and Guto Bebb

Wednesday 24th November 2010 Westminster Hall

[Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

Thank you, Mr Bone. It is a real privilege to appear before you in your elevated status; I think that this is my first time. I also thank you very much indeed for giving me that extra two minutes. I am sure that the extra time will serve me, the Minister and indeed the people of Lesotho very well.

Lesotho is an extraordinary African country. It is surrounded by South Africa, whose influence there is substantial, indeed crucial. Along with the UK alone, Lesotho has the dubious honour of having hereditary peers in its legislature. [Hon. Members: “Hear, hear.”] I gather that that “Hear, hear” is support for the maintenance of hereditary peers by the Tory-Lib Dem alliance that is currently running the country, and I will note that accordingly.

Lesotho has a population of about 1.8 million people and its terrain is mountainous, with less than 10% of its land being suitable for cultivation. Unlike many African countries, it is very green and I think that its biggest export is water. If that sounds vaguely familiar, it may be that some friends of Lesotho see those characteristics of the country as being similar to those of Wales, for which I am proud to be one of the Members of Parliament.

In the 1980s, those common characteristics led Wales to be twinned with Lesotho. The relationship has grown since then, and a strong bond has developed between the two countries. An organisation called Dolen Cymru, the Wales Lesotho Link, has worked hard over many years to develop that bond, and initiatives across Wales, funded by the Department for International Development and the Welsh Assembly Government, have created joint working to confront the issues of our time: primary education, health—especially AIDS—and sustainable economic development.

Lesotho’s schools are a credit to the country. If anyone here has the chance to visit Lesotho, as I had the privilege of doing in 2006, they will see schools packed full of individuals who want to learn and get on. Free primary education is a recent innovation, so Lesotho has some of the oldest primary school children one is likely to meet. Secondary education is keenly sought after, although unfortunately many of those who seek it do not have the means to advance themselves by that route.

Lesotho also faces many health challenges. It has the planet’s third highest rate of HIV infection. Some 23.2% of the population between 15 and 49 are infected: 26% of women and 19% of men. Due to economic pressures, those infected are often unable to travel to seek the health and medical care that they need, even when that care is available.

Lesotho’s economy is another challenge. The country is striving to move away from being a subsistence economy to being a modern diverse economy, but it is a struggle. The world recession has had a major economic impact on developed nations, but nations seeking to develop have been hit even harder. Textile subsidies that helped Lesotho export, particularly to the United States, have ended, which has had a major impact on the country, which makes wonderful wool products and marvellous tapestries, if anyone would like to adorn their walls with something beautiful. The products are made in Lesotho, but the country’s ability to export those products to the rest of the world is limited.

There are pressures. Unemployment is high—rates of more than 40% are not unusual—and at present the country does not have the capacity to support a vibrant private sector. Little professional support exists for business. In advance of this debate, I received an interesting report from the Chartered Institute of Public Finance and Accountancy about work that it is doing to develop expertise and support for business in Lesotho. I commend that work. I think that the report is in draft, but it will be available shortly. Such support for business, and the development of a private sector that provides work and the ability to export, is important for the future of Lesotho.

[Guto Bebb (Aberconwy) (Con)]

I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on securing this debate on the links between Wales and Lesotho. It is important to make the point that the Welsh contribution has been significant. On economic development, does he agree that the priority given by Dolen Cymru to educational links is a long-term strategy for securing economic growth?

Yes, there are short-term things that should be done, but in terms of educating a work force who can compete internationally, forming links between 130 schools in Wales and Lesotho is a step in the right direction. It is a good example of long-term planning in aid projects between this country and Lesotho.

[Ian Lucas]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. The introduction of free primary education in Lesotho is having a massive positive impact. I will say a few words about the thirst of people in Lesotho for education. They see it as a way to progress within their lives, become teachers or entrepreneurs and develop the skills that they need to take their country forward. It is such a recent innovation—it has only happened within the past decade—that many lives previously did not reach their full potential.

People in Lesotho understand the importance of education, and it is valued in their schools. Both teachers and pupils are enthusiastic about education and its transformative power. I wish we saw that more often in some UK classrooms; I never heard a pupil in Lesotho say to me, “I’m bored.” I would love never to hear such a comment in the United Kingdom.

The hon. Gentleman mentioned the links between schools in Wales and in Lesotho. I commend the Department for International Development for focusing over many years on global schools partnerships, which have been positive as far as Wales is concerned. I particularly commend the fact that the partnerships require commitment from UK schools to work with schools in developing countries, so that they can learn from each other. What I have seen in the Wrexham schools involved in the project is a strong sense that not only is Lesotho learning from us, but we are learning from Lesotho.

That is an important part of the process of developing the global schools partnerships; the schools are working together. Countries at completely different stages of development are engaging and working together to confront the problems of developing countries and the developed world, and that engagement creates a much stronger understanding of what developing countries’ problems are.

That understanding is transmitted not just between staff but between the pupils who are fortunate enough to visit the others’ country. Perhaps I should declare a sort of interest: my wife is a schoolteacher just outside my constituency, in Clwyd South, which recently had a visit from some schools in Lesotho. That link has developed over three years. It has added hugely to the understanding of those in the senior school, as well as those in the two Wrexham primary schools involved, and it has massively benefited our experience and knowledge of international development.

DFID has played a major role in that. I know that securing finance for the global schools partnership is demanding and requires a lot of commitment. There is an element of form-filling that is not popular with the applicants, but it is positive in that it requires those applying to think constructively about how they approach the global schools partnership and how they can engage, for benefit in two directions, in the work being done.

The link between Lesotho and Wales is massively important, and it is keenly felt in Wales. Established some years ago, it has developed hugely and is important in both countries. Lesotho is somewhat similar to Wales in that it is dominated by a slightly larger neighbour. Lesotho has South Africa; Wales, of course, has England. I think that Lesotho sometimes feels a little undervalued by the UK Government—for example, when its high commission closed. It supported the movement against the South African apartheid regime, but was not valued as much as it should have been.

The DFID office in Maseru is the only UK Government presence in Lesotho and it is greatly valued. It would be a major step backwards if there were any thought of closing that office because it is the only representation that we have in the country. For many years, Lesotho was our window into southern Africa. It was a place where people sought refuge from the apartheid regime and that offered assistance to people from outside who were threatened by the appalling policies of South Africa at that time.

[Ian Lucas]

My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. I know that both Germany and Ireland contribute to development in Lesotho and have been very active in the country—along with China, which is also becoming an increasing presence in Lesotho. The link with Wales is really valued within Lesotho. In celebration of the links between the two countries, the Queen of Lesotho recently visited Wales and went to a school in Penley to see the development of the global schools initiative. She saw how well that project is progressing and how much benefit both countries are securing from it.

If we are to have a partnership, it is crucial that the Government do not withdraw from activity in Lesotho and that they retain their presence there. We need to have a presence to facilitate the involvement of more private sector and non-governmental organisations, because the need in Lesotho is massive. I have already referred to the rate of AIDS infection within the country. That is a major problem with which Lesotho has to cope in a way that few other countries do. That issue requires our immediate attention. We all understand that there are tough times at home, but the people of Lesotho are having a tougher time. They have a massive rate of HIV infection in their country, and it is draining away enthusiastic young people who are keen to get on.

[Guto Bebb]

That is an important point. I support the hon. Gentleman’s call for the UK representation in Lesotho to continue. We talk about the big society and, in a Welsh context, this is very much a big society project. Community groups have come together—Merched y Wawr, the Women’s Institute and so on—to raise money, and the Welsh Assembly has embarked on support funding for the project. However, none of that would have been possible without the facilitation of UK Departments. A successful partnership approach has created an enthusiasm for a country that, previously, few people knew much about in a Welsh context.

[Ian Lucas]

That is absolutely right. It is impressive that public, private and charitable sector organisations have come together to show their commitment to developing links between Wales and Lesotho. I commend the Tory-Lib Dem Government for maintaining DFID’s budget, because I know that there are pressures from sources within both parties to end such protection.

Within that context, we must prioritise the investment that is made and recognise that voluntary links between Wales and Lesotho have been established over many years. The Government have supported those links, which need to be fostered, encouraged and developed. Through education, to which we have already referred, capacity is starting to be developed within Lesotho. Governance also needs to be improved—a common theme across many developing countries—but progress is being made.

The past two to three years have been a very difficult period across the world, but that is particularly the case for developing countries. Now is not the time to step back from supporting a country such as Lesotho. We should build on the strong links that already exist between Wales and Lesotho and encourage more contact. We should certainly not withdraw the UK Government presence in the country.