Parliamentary Scrutiny of Leaving the EU

Debate between Ian C. Lucas and David Jones

Wednesday 12th October 2016 Commons Chamber

[Ian C. Lucas]

Will the Minister give way?

[Mr Jones]

I will not give way.

I have no doubt that the Bill will be subject to rigorous scrutiny by both Houses of Parliament during its passage. It will be for Parliament to determine what changes to the law in the great repeal Bill will best suit the national interest, but the national interest must be the paramount consideration for both the Government and Parliament.

We will shortly be entering into extensive and detailed negotiations about the terms of our withdrawal. It is entirely right that the Government should not damage our position in those negotiations by spelling out in fine detail what our negotiating position will be.

[Ian C. Lucas]

Will the Minister give way?

[Mr Jones]

I will not give way.

Nobody sensible would expect us to do so, least of all those with whom we will be negotiating. My right hon. Friend has already set out the broad aims of our negotiation, which include, crucially, regaining control of our borders and having the most open access possible to the European market, but I am sure that hon. Members will understand the practical realities of our withdrawal negotiations. Indeed, the House of Lords EU Committee has summarised what it considers to be the correct approach to parliamentary scrutiny:

“We acknowledge that certain elements of the forthcoming negotiations, particularly those relating to trade, may have to be conducted confidentially. We would expect parliamentary scrutiny of the negotiations to strike an appropriate balance between transparency and confidentiality, while achieving the overarching objective of holding the Government effectively to account.”

[Ian C. Lucas]

I will put to the right hon. Gentleman the question I put to the Secretary of State. If he believes in parliamentary sovereignty, will the Government please present their opening position to Parliament for scrutiny and a vote before they begin to conduct negotiations? Will he give the Chamber an assurance on that?

[Mr Jones]

The House will of course be fully engaged as matters progress, but I have to repeat to the hon. Gentleman—and I remind him that I have been more generous in giving way than was his colleague the hon. Member for Brent North—that he has to understand the element of confidentiality in the negotiations that was quite rightly identified by the House of Lords EU Committee. We fully agree that that balance will have to be struck, which is why we seek to amend the motion. We agree that there should be a transparent debate on the Government’s plans for leaving the EU and that there should be proper—

Macur Review of Historical Child Abuse

Debate between Ian C. Lucas and David Jones

Tuesday 22nd March 2016 Westminster Hall

[Ian C. Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

I am pleased to see you in the chair, Sir Edward. May I take this opportunity to congratulate the Minister on his appointment? This is not the easiest of debates with which to start. I also congratulate the hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Liz Saville Roberts) on her studied and sensible remarks.

This is a really difficult issue for Wrexham. It has cast a cloud over the years that I have been in Parliament, which are many now. The Waterhouse report was published in the year before I became a Member of Parliament and refers to events that occurred very often in Wrexham in the 1980s and 1990s, when I lived and worked in the area. There were great hopes for the Macur review. On Thursday, when the Secretary of State for Wales made a statement, I said that I was astonished. I am afraid that having considered the review to the extent I have been able to thus far, I do not in any way resile from my statement; in fact, I would intensify it.

The reaction within Wrexham has been one of huge disappointment and distress. The hon. Lady referred to Keith Gregory, who is my constituent and a local Plaid Cymru councillor in Wrexham, and to whom I spoke at the weekend. There is intense disappointment, but it simply confirms the view of many survivors about the political class, the political system and the whole world in which many of my constituents see politicians as operating. I am afraid that the report, with the redactions that have been referred to, will intensify the disillusion that the survivors of these incidents feel about the political and judicial system in north Wales.

A lot of issues will arise from the report, and I tell the Parliamentary Under-Secretary and Ministers at the Ministry of Justice that I will be pursuing many of those questions through parliamentary questions and further debate. We need a substantial debate—a full day’s debate—on this report, which is of national importance, in order to address the issues in it, once we have had the opportunity to try to read it. I congratulate the hon. Lady on reading the report: I have had real difficulty doing so because of the number of redactions in it. Many of the most important and controversial aspects of the report are very difficult to extract from the document we have.

The issue of redaction is very important. I was surprised last Thursday that the then Secretary of State for Wales made the statement, because I had expected the Lord Chancellor to make it. I have raised questions in connection with the publication of this report that have always been answered by the Ministry of Justice, which I therefore expected to be dealing with the matter. Although the report was jointly commissioned by the Wales Office and the Ministry of Justice, it is very important that Justice Ministers—I mean no disrespect to the Wales Office—should answer, because there are very technical and difficult legal questions relating to it.

It is clear that this report followed correspondence that took place between the Lord Chancellor and Lady Macur who was conducting an investigation and doing an independent report. The important issue of redaction was at the heart of that correspondence. The review itself makes it clear in paragraph 8.4 that

“the redaction of this report is a matter for the commissioning departments.”

It is very important that everyone out there understands that the redactions in the report were made by the Government, not by the judge. The only people who have seen the full report and have made the redactions are the Government.

However, that was not enough for the Lord Chancellor. Information that is given to us by Lady Justice Macur in paragraph 1.44 of the report tells us that Her Majesty’s Procurator General and Treasury Solicitor, Jonathan Jones, asked for a meeting with her to discuss the

“inclusion of names of individuals subject to unsubstantiated allegations.”

In the review, Lady Justice Macur says that she refused to have such a meeting.

That was not the end of the matter as far as the Ministry of Justice was concerned. I should make it clear that I have written to the Lord Chancellor to give him notice that I will be referring to this report and to him as an individual in this debate, because after the refusal to meet the Treasury Solicitor, the Lord Chancellor—effectively Lady Macur’s boss—wrote a letter to her. She is the head of an independent judicial inquiry investigating an alleged cover-up. He asked her to withhold the names of individuals who were the subject of allegations from the draft review presented to other Government Departments—so the Lord Chancellor asked her to take the names out of the draft report that was being sent, within the Government, to other Departments. I do not regard that as appropriate. This was an independent judicial inquiry and the matter was one for the judge.

I would have liked to question the Lord Chancellor on those points but, unfortunately, he did not present the report to Parliament, so I have not had the opportunity to do so: I will pursue those matters. In any event, the Government have redacted, as we have heard, huge swathes of the Macur review, removing in particular the names of individuals who have been the subject of speculation and who have national recognition. For example, the name Peter Morrison has been redacted from the report, but puzzlingly, other names—Greville Janner, Lord Gareth Williams—have not.

[Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con)]

If I may correct the hon. Gentleman, Peter Morrison’s name does appear in the body of the report. It is important that the hon. Gentleman clarifies that, because it is not redacted.

[Ian C. Lucas]

It appears in one part of the report, but it is also redacted in other parts of it. His name appears in the introduction, I believe, but in the part that relates to establishment figures, his name is redacted.

[Mr David Jones]

The point I was seeking to make is that his name is not wholly redacted, and since the hon. Gentleman is making a speech that covers very important matters, it is necessary to clarify that point.

[Ian C. Lucas]

I am grateful for that clarification, but in the chapter that relates to establishment figures, the two names that I referred to are not redacted, whereas Peter Morrison’s name is. It is very difficult to deduce a line of principle to see why someone made that decision. I think we need to have that information, and I think it is very important and very appropriate that the Children’s Commissioner for Wales has written to the Secretary of State for Wales, saying that

“more can be done to communicate many of the omissions to be found in the report, and seek a greater level of transparency to be afforded to victims. As such, I call on the UK Government to issue a statement explaining the methodology used for redacting the publically available Macur Review Report, giving a full rationale for the changes made. Without an understanding of the approach employed by the Government’s lawyers, many will continue to question whether there has been protection of individuals because of their position in society, rather than because there are ongoing criminal investigations, or if there is no evidence against them.”

Some of the people whose names have been redacted are dead, so there will not be any continuing criminal investigations as far as they are concerned, and it is very difficult to understand why these redactions have been made and what element of principle is involved. We need that information because we have to try to persuade our constituents that our political system is not rotten and that it does afford them some element of protection.

I am also very concerned about the circumstances in which the review was set up. There is a very interesting section starting in paragraph 1.33 of the review concerning a Wales Office note, and the involvement of the Cabinet Secretary in the compilation of a note that involved the former Secretary of State for Wales, the right hon. Member for Clwyd West (Mr Jones), who is here today. It seems from the report that issues that are directly relevant to the establishment of the Macur review have been left hanging in the air and that a Cabinet note, which is referred to in paragraph 1.40, has not been disclosed. That is one of many documents that are available and should be published. A huge number of questions arise from the report and I am afraid its contents do nothing to resolve the disillusion of my constituents or the many survivors who suffered at the hands of criminals in north Wales in the 1980s and 1990s.

[Ian C. Lucas]

My hon. Friend makes a valid point. The report took over three years and I would be astonished—to use that phrase again—if the Goddard review reported within that timeframe. That is why it is incumbent on us to ask these questions. It is unacceptable that only members of the Government see the unredacted report. I am a former Minister and an elected Member of Parliament and it is appropriate for the unredacted report to be seen by individuals in Opposition parties. Otherwise, the inference that political motives are involved will continue to be made.

[Mr David Jones]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that another disturbing element of the report is the handling of the documentation of the inquiry: its transmission from the Welsh Office to the Welsh Assembly Government, and what happened when it was in the hands of the Welsh Assembly Government? Does he agree that those matters also need further clarification?

Welsh Affairs

Debate between Ian C. Lucas and David Jones

Thursday 3rd March 2016 Commons Chamber

[Ian C. Lucas]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his kind words earlier. He knows that I strongly share the agenda he is outlining. The Welsh Government have invested £43 million in dualling the Wrexham-Chester line, which is hugely important, and we need to do more. Will he join me in pressing the Welsh Government and the UK Government to put their money where their mouth is? The Welsh Government, to be fair, believe in cross-border transport so much that they have dualled the line in the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for City of Chester (Christian Matheson) rather than in Wrexham, and we want it to run right through to Wrexham.

[Mr Jones]

Yes, that is the burden of my speech. As the north-eastern part of Wales is so dynamic and so important to the economy of north Wales, as well as that of the country of a whole, and because it straddles a border—a line on the map that was not there in reality until fairly recently—we need to ensure that differing policies on either side of the border do not have any unforeseen effects. Yes, of course it is essential that both the Westminster Government and the Welsh Government should be working extremely closely together in this regard.

Before I sit down, Madam Deputy Speaker—I am very much alert to your strictures on time—I will mention the A55 coast road, or expressway, which is the most important route in the whole of north Wales, linking the areas around the border to Holyhead. The road is now quite old and in desperate need of upgrading. A few years ago, arrangements were made whereby borrowing powers were given to the Welsh Government—in fact, they were given the right to access the old borrowing powers of the Welsh Development Agency—in order to upgrade road infrastructure. That was stated to be specifically for the M4 and the A55. The Welsh Government are taking steps to upgrade the M4 around the Newport area, and that is all well and good, but looking at this from a north Wales point of view, it is rather galling that they do not appear to be accessing these borrowing powers to upgrade the A55. I ask my hon. Friend the Minister to give his colleagues in the Welsh Assembly Government the message that they should realise that the A55 is just as important to the people of north Wales as the M4 is to the people of south Wales.

There is a strong perception among us north Walians that we always get the short straw. I very much hope that the Welsh Government are listening to the contributions made to this debate and will understand that there is life north of Merthyr Tydfil and that the people of north Wales need their own specific economic interests to be reflected—and that means more connectivity and more integration with the great north-west economy.

Draft Wales Bill (Morning sitting)

Debate between Ian C. Lucas and David Jones

Wednesday 3rd February 2016 General Committees

[Ian C. Lucas]

I will make a little progress, because I am conscious that others want to speak.

I want to turn to the Chairman of the Welsh Affairs Committee’s comments. The EVEL proposals, appalling as they are, actually contain a kernel of something that could take constitutional considerations further. In general, I welcome the introduction of geographical Committees in the UK Parliament, because the public do not want more politicians. At the heart of Tony Blair’s defeat on his proposals for a north-east regional assembly was the powerful image of such an institution being a white elephant. Basically, for the general public it was unacceptable to have yet more politicians—the very problem that the hon. Member for Monmouth mentioned earlier. The creation of an English Grand Committee made up of MPs who are already elected creates a body capable of scrutiny with no additional costly elected members. It is a possible model for the scrutiny of legislation and budgets not only in England but throughout the UK.

As an MP from Wales, I am conscious of the differentiation of roles created by the devolution settlement across the UK. Some political roles are devolved to the Welsh Government, the most prominent of which is health, yet my constituents have a limited appreciation of the level of government that deals with their issues. Frankly, they do not care. They think that if they have a problem that is of sufficient importance for them to go to their MP about it, he should deal with it. That view extends not only to matters devolved to the Welsh Government. Barely a weekly surgery goes by without an issue being brought to me that is the responsibility of the local council. I deal with such issues, and I know that my parliamentary colleagues in England do exactly the same, yet the parliamentary process makes little concession to either the devolution settlement or the developed role of MPs as constituency advocates.

Politicians at different levels of governance operate as if they were on different floors of an office block that governs: local government on the ground floor; devolved jurisdictions, Members of the Scottish Parliament, Assembly Members or Members of the Legislative Assembly on the second floor; Members of Parliament on the third floor; and Members of the European Parliament on the floor above them. The time is right, in appropriate cases, to put those representatives on the same floor to scrutinise together in the interests of our constituents. The EVEL proposals, which suggest the creation of a separate parliamentary Committee to deal with appropriate legislation on a geographical basis, give an indication of how to achieve that.

For many years, as an MP from Wales I have advocated MPs and AMs working together on joint Committees for the benefit of our constituents. That should be considered further in the draft Bill. The health issues I have set out are examples of issues that need joint work to reflect the reality of NHS provision to my constituents. There has been great resistance to this proposal. Some see it as undermining the principle of devolution, but devolution is not separatism. It is incumbent on those of us who want devolution to work to work together, not separately, to make it work in practice. We must leave separatism to the nationalists.

Parliament needs to recognise in its procedures the role of devolved institutions by incorporating them into the scrutiny process. It must also recognise that, in England, that will mean MPs working in joint Committees with local government. Such Committees must, of necessity, be constituted on a regional basis. Just as the Conservatives propose creating a Committee of MPs in England in their EVEL proposals, Labour should go one step further and create Committees of MPs on a regional basis within England to scrutinise matters relating to that region. In England, that will mean extending Committee membership to local government leaders. In Wales and Scotland, it will mean Scottish Parliament and Welsh Assembly Committees admitting MPs, and parliamentary Committees admitting MSPs and AMs, as well as, where appropriate, local government leaders.

In appropriate cases, such Committees could extend across national boundaries, so that they could deal with issues that transcend boundaries, reflecting the reality of the situation on the ground for, for example, constituents in the part of the cross-border region of England and Wales that I represent. Such Committees would more accurately reflect the present governance of the UK. Governance is a process that integrates different levels of government, and such Committees would do the same.

[Mr David Jones]

I have a great deal of sympathy with what the hon. Gentleman is suggesting. Does he agree that the issue is not simply one for parliamentarians but for Government Ministers—the Executive—as well? There should be far more discussion of the alignment of policies between Governments.

[Ian C. Lucas]

I agree with that entirely. I do not pretend that what I have said this morning is a solution, but it is a starting point for a debate. The right hon. Gentleman knows that there is an appetite for cross-border working in Parliament, as shown by the recent establishment of the all-party parliamentary group for the Mersey-Dee and north Wales region.

The concept of regional representation in Government and in Parliament is neither novel nor past. As Prime Minister, Gordon Brown introduced regional Ministers. They were abolished by the coalition Government in 2010, but they were very effective. I dealt with them when I was a Minister in the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills. The Conservative Government have now created a Minister for the northern powerhouse. We should have a Committee to hold such people to account. Bit by bit, the Government are adopting the model through their proposals for regional devolution. To develop regional institutions within Government, we need the parliamentary equivalents. To work with other organisations, we need local government and devolved institutions to take matters forward. The move should be against the separatism that the Government have promulgated through EVEL. We should establish a Committee of elected representatives—MPs, AMs and councillors—who can hold the institutions of Government to account and more properly reflect the situation on the ground.

The tragedy of far too much of the constitutional reform since 1999 is that it has tinkered in a piecemeal way with our constitution, and the draft Bill is another example. Unfortunately, the Government are unlikely any time soon to consider an overall constitutional convention, which is what we need. Those of us who dearly love the United Kingdom need to agree to create such a convention to regularise the rules that we have. Until that happens, the proposal for a regional Committee, which can, if necessary, transcend boundaries, is a good way of taking forward a more accountable and effective governance structure that would address the needs of the people whom we represent.

English Votes for English Laws

Debate between Ian C. Lucas and David Jones

Wednesday 15th July 2015 Commons Chamber

[Ian C. Lucas]

They will. They will prevent me from putting down amendments in Committee and voting in the Legislative Grand Committee (England). That is entirely the proposal. It will exclude me from the Legislative Grand Committee. It is limiting my right to speak on behalf of my constituents.

[Mr David Jones]

The hon. Gentleman will know that, for the purpose of deciding whether the new procedures apply, the Speaker will have to certify it. In certifying it, he will have to take account of whether the issue is wholly devolved to Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland and whether it relates exclusively to a particular part of the jurisdiction. In the example that the hon. Gentleman cited, would it not be the case that the Speaker should be concluding that it does not relate exclusively to England?

[Ian C. Lucas]

I agree with that, but how will the Speaker know? These proposals contain no procedure for me to make representations to the Speaker. Madam Deputy Speaker is a very wise woman, but she does not know Wrexham as well as I do. She will not know about the arrangements for health services. These Standing Orders that this Government are bringing forward do not allow me to make those representations.

[Mr Jones]

I agree, and is that not the point of the debate that we are having and of the consultation that we are going through? Therefore, does he agree that what is needed is a mechanism to be put in place to ensure that representations can be made, for example, by the hon. Gentleman?

[Ian C. Lucas]

I agree. It is therefore good that the Leader of the House did listen and did not press these Standing Orders as he wished to do in the first instance. This position is self-evident. Anyone who looks at the facts and knows north-east Wales accepts that that is the case. The difficulty was made clearer to me last Saturday when I received at home in Wrexham, through my letterbox, a ballot paper from the Liverpool Heart and Chest Hospital for an election to the north Wales constituency of the hospital. How can any decision relating to that hospital possibly be English-only, whether it relates to its finances or structure? Health is a devolved matter in Wales, but issues relating to that hospital do involve MPs from Wales. They should be able to represent their constituents in this place, and the proposed Standing Orders threaten that.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ian C. Lucas]

I will not give way because I have taken up enough time.

I do not believe that constitutional issues of this magnitude should be addressed by Standing Orders, because they go to the heart of the future of the United Kingdom. This United Kingdom is in peril. It frightened me last week at Prime Minister’s questions when the Prime Minister quoted a nationalist in support of his proposals on EVEL.

We have to stand against these amendments to Standing Orders because, contrary to what the hon. Member for Beverley and Holderness said, they are not minimal. I hope that I have shown that they will have profound practical implications for my constituents and profound constitutional implications for this place. They go to the heart of the equality of Members in this Chamber, because they will restrict the voting rights of individual Members of Parliament on Committees in a way that has not been done before.

[Mr David Jones]

The hon. Gentleman will know that I have a certain amount of sympathy for some of the points that he is making, but is he not over-egging the pudding? We have a proposal to change Standing Orders, which the Leader of the House has said will be reviewed in 12 months. The hon. Gentleman has suggested that there is an attempt to entrench Conservative power in this House. Nothing could be further from the truth. He knows that if there were a change of Government, it would be extremely easy to change those Standing Orders, so he really should not over-egg it.

[Ian C. Lucas]

I am not over-egging the pudding because the proposal would establish the unprecedented principle that MPs in this place can be treated differently. That is a far-reaching step and one that we should resist on behalf of our constituents in north Wales, whichever party we belong to—I do not think that our good friends from Plaid Cymru are with us, again. This issue is of huge importance to my constituency and to Parliament, and we should resist these dangerous Standing Orders at every possible stage.

Devolution and Growth across Britain

Debate between Ian C. Lucas and David Jones

Wednesday 3rd June 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con)]

It is a great pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Aberavon (Stephen Kinnock), who follows in illustrious footsteps, not only in terms of his parentage, but in terms of the previous incumbents of his seat, such as Lord Morris and my good friend, Dr Hywel Francis. It was a great pleasure to be present for the speech of my hon. Friend the Member for South Suffolk (James Cartlidge), who made a tremendous impact on his first outing here.

The Gracious Speech contained a ringing declaration that the Government will adopt a one nation approach and bring the different parts of our country together. That approach is highly welcome. Although the economy is recovering from the crash of 2008, it is clear that some parts are doing better than others. London and the south-east have long been the most affluent parts of the country. Without wishing to see that affluence diminished, it is right that other parts should be given every opportunity to catch up. That is why the northern powerhouse agenda is so important, and I am delighted to see that it has been entrusted to the hands of the Under-Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government, my hon. Friend the Member for Stockton South (James Wharton), fresh from his stunning victory at the general election.

Devolution of powers to the great cities of our country, starting with Manchester, is an intensely Conservative policy. It will ensure that powers to encourage economic growth are exercised at the most appropriate level—closest to the businesses, families and communities that stand to benefit most from that growth. That is important, not only to the great cities, but to the surrounding areas, some of which are wide. For example, even in this post-devolution era, we in north Wales look economically not to Cardiff, but to Liverpool and Manchester. The trading corridors in Wales run east to west, not north to south. North Wales’s most important industrial area is Deeside, where a large industrial estate has been built and where a new enterprise zone has been created by the Welsh Government. Deeside is important not only to the rest of Wales, but to the north-west economic region, of which in reality it is part. My right hon. Friend the Chancellor recognised the synergy between north Wales and the north-west last year when he provided the funding to upgrade the Halton curve railway line, which will create a direct fast link between north Wales and Liverpool.

More needs to be done, however, and I strongly welcome the Government’s commitment in the Gracious Speech to legislate for high-speed rail links between the different parts of our country. North Wales can benefit enormously from that proposal, too. Colleagues from all parties are now working with the North Wales Economic Ambition Board on the business case for upgrading the north Wales coast line, which is essential for the region to benefit from the northern powerhouse agenda.

The Government also want further to empower local enterprise partnerships. In Wales, I suggest that they consider working with the Welsh Government to empower the Mersey Dee Alliance, the most natural vehicle for developing the potential of that important cross-border area. I also mention the commitment in the Queen’s Speech to seek to change the Standing Orders of the House so that decisions affecting England only or England and Wales only can be taken with the consent of only Members representing those parts of the country. I strongly approve of that commitment, since it will restore fairness that has been eroded in the wake of the 1999 bout of devolution. However, I agree with what the right hon. Member for Delyn (Mr Hanson) said, and we should treat that proposal with caution. What is of paramount importance is defining what are English, and English and Welsh, issues.

[Ian C. Lucas]

I am listening to the right hon. Gentleman’s speech carefully, and he will understand why. He is a lawyer. Does he think that an appropriate and effective definition is possible?

[Mr Jones]

It is important to achieve that definition. The hon. Gentleman will share my concerns. For example, the right hon. Member for Delyn mentioned his constituents’ use of hospitals in the north-west of England. Further west in my constituency, my constituents rely on the Walton Centre for neurosurgery, on Alder Hey for paediatric services, on Gobowen Hospital for orthopaedic services, on Clatterbridge and Christie’s for cancer care, and on Broad Green for heart surgery. The list goes on.

The people of north Wales have an absolute right to expect that their representatives in this place speak in the House on the issues that concern them. I say to my right hon. Friends on the Front Bench that that is extremely important if the fairness we seek to achieve by creating English and Welsh votes for English and Welsh laws, or English votes for English laws, is not to be brought into disrepute. Similarly, many English patients rely on services provided in Welsh hospitals. I suggest that the proposed Wales Bill gives us an excellent opportunity to provide for representatives of English constituents to have a more direct say on the services delivered in Wales that affect them.

Overall, the Queen’s Speech is ambitious for the people of each and every part of our country. It has a great deal to commend it, and deserves the support of every Member of the House.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Ian C. Lucas and David Jones

Wednesday 9th July 2014 Commons Chamber

[Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

7. What steps the Government is taking to improve infrastructure connectivity between north Wales and England.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

As part of our long-term economic plan, we are currently investing in infrastructure at unprecedented levels. Last week, we announced £10 million of investment to upgrade the Halton curve, renewing north Wales’s direct link with Liverpool and improving connectivity across the north-west of England.

[Ian Lucas]

On Friday, I will visit Rossett to see the investment of £44 million by the Welsh Government in the dualling of the Wrexham-Chester line, which was made a single line by the Tories in the 1980s. I welcome the investment announced by the Chancellor last week, but will the Secretary of State tell us when that will happen and when the Halton curve work will be done?

[Mr Jones]

It is clearly intended to proceed as quickly as possible. Connectivity between Wrexham and Merseyside is extremely important. I welcome, of course, the belated investment by the Welsh Government, but there is more to be done, and I think the hon. Gentleman and I are agreed on the need to look at electrification further north.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Ian C. Lucas and David Jones

Wednesday 14th May 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jones]

I think that Members across the House were equally shocked by the contents of the report. I am glad to see that the Welsh Minister of Health has taken some action on the matter, but I repeat that the Government are more than willing to offer our assistance, perhaps by commissioning a Keogh-style inquiry.

[Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

The Midland Centre for Spinal Injuries at Gobowen provides the highest quality of care to patients from Wales with spinal injuries. They are concerned about the future of specialist services because of NHS reforms in England. Will the Secretary of State meet me to discuss the concerns expressed to me by my constituents?

[Mr Jones]

I agree entirely that the Gobowen hospital is a world-renowned centre of excellence, and I am concerned about what the hon. Gentleman says. I am very happy to meet him and would be grateful if he contacted my office.

Wales Bill

Debate between Ian C. Lucas and David Jones

Wednesday 30th April 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jones]

It is perfectly clear that the Conservative party’s position was amply stated in the debate in 2006. That position was supported by parties other than the Labour party. It is absolutely clear that we have justice on our side in overturning a fairly straightforward partisan measure introduced by the Labour party.

[Ian Lucas]

The Secretary of State is being generous in giving way. He keeps saying that it is a partisan measure, but will he explain how it applies to the Labour party differently from how it applies to any other party in Wales?

[Mr Jones]

The position is absolutely clear: smaller parties in Wales, as we have said, have a smaller pool of first-class candidates.

[Ian Lucas]

That is nonsense.

[Mr Jones]

It is not nonsense—absolutely not. The measure was put in place to favour the Labour party.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Ian C. Lucas and David Jones

Wednesday 26th March 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jones]

I am always keen and ready to give praise where praise is due. Certainly, Welsh clinicians and nurses do a wonderful job. The fact remains, however, that outcomes in Wales are significantly worse than they are in England, which, to be frank, is something about which the right hon. Gentleman should join me in expressing concern. I also suggest that he have a word with his friend the Welsh Minister for Health and suggest to him that he might wish to take on board the recommendations of Professor Keogh.

[Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

Is the Secretary of State aware of the superb service provided for north Wales patients by the Midlands centre for spinal injuries in Gobowen, which carries out life-changing work? Specialist services are being changed by the Government, of which the right hon. Gentleman is the Welsh Secretary. Will he visit the spinal injuries centre and meet me to discuss the concerns about the specialist care proposed by his Government?

[Mr Jones]

I am always keen to praise the work of hospitals that offer such important services to Wales. I fully agree with the hon. Gentleman that the hospital in Gobowen is of world-class standard but, sadly, in terms of waiting times, the target time for English patients is only 18 weeks, whereas in Wales it is 26 weeks, which is unacceptable. Frankly, the hon. Gentleman should agree with me that it is not right that Welsh patients, who pay their taxes at the same rate as English patients, should have substandard care.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Ian C. Lucas and David Jones

Wednesday 12th February 2014 Commons Chamber

[Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

1. What assessment he has made of the level of business investment by banks in Wales.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

Recent Bank of England data show that the availability of credit to businesses, including small and medium-sized enterprises, has increased significantly across the United Kingdom.

[Ian Lucas]

Businesses in Wrexham tell me that the biggest barrier to growth is the lack of availability of finance. Today Barclays has talked of more redundancies and more bankers’ bonuses. Will the Secretary of State support me by establishing a regional bank for Wales which will be attuned to the local economy, and which will provide the finance for business that will enable the local economy to grow?

[Mr Jones]

The proposal for a development bank for Wales was floated recently by Professor Dylan Jones-Evans, and I believe that he is now conducting another exercise for Edwina Hart, the business development Minister in Wales. We are certainly prepared to consider the proposal, and, in fact, I have already discussed it with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Ian C. Lucas and David Jones

Wednesday 8th January 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jones]

I have had many conversations with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs. Clearly, Aberystwyth has suffered extreme damage as a consequence of the storms of the past few days, and I assure my hon. Friend that, if any additional funding is provided, Barnett consequentials will follow in the usual manner.

[Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

2. What assessment he has made of job prospects in the renewables sector in Wales.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Ian C. Lucas and David Jones

Wednesday 9th October 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jones]

Yes. I was pleased that the Welsh Government reversed their decision not to redouble the line between Chester and Wrexham. It plays an important part in the business case for north Wales electrification, which I am sure all Members would welcome.

[Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

14. The £44 million of Labour investment in the Wrexham-Chester line is not a reversal of the decision; it is part of continued investment to improve the network in north-east Wales. I know the right hon. Gentleman is interested in this issue. Will he meet me to explore specifically how HS2 will link to the new development in the rail network in north-east Wales to benefit the area?

[Mr Jones]

The hon. Gentleman knows that I am always delighted to meet him to discuss rail matters. In fact, I invited him to a meeting only a few months ago to discuss the electrification of the Wrexham to Bidston line. I am entirely happy to keep meeting him.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Ian C. Lucas and David Jones

Wednesday 3rd July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jones]

I am, clearly, happy to raise the hon. Lady’s concerns with the MOD, but when I visited the British Airways maintenance centre at Cardiff airport only a few weeks ago I was impressed by the fact that a large number of workers there were former RAF employees.

[Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

Does the Secretary of State agree that membership of the European Union is an essential precondition of the continued success of the UK arm of Airbus?

[Mr Jones]

These issues fall to be considered in the debate about whether we should have a referendum on the European Union.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Ian C. Lucas and David Jones

Wednesday 15th May 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jones]

I visited the Deeside industrial park forum last Friday, and that was very much the message I got from employers in that enterprise zone. There is far more to be gained from the three enterprise zones working closely together. One of the catalysts for expansion of those zones would be electrification of the Wrexham to Bidston railway line, which is a matter that my office is working on.

[Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

I am delighted to hear that the Wrexham to Bidston line project is under consideration by the Secretary of State’s office. Will he convene a meeting of MPs and Assembly Members from north-east Wales, and of MPs from Cheshire, to discuss the project and what steps can be taken, using enterprise zones, to take it forward?

[Mr Jones]

I am pleased to hear the hon. Gentleman welcome that initiative. His proposal is certainly worthy of consideration. I am having a number of meetings in the immediate future with representatives of other enterprise zones, and in due course I will write to him and perhaps invite him to such a meeting.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Ian C. Lucas and David Jones

Wednesday 28th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jones]

As my hon. Friend will know, only last Friday I held a meeting in Llandudno, the consequence of which was the formation of a working group to work towards the electrification of the north Wales coast line. The group has started its work and I hope that it will receive support from hon. Members in this House.

[Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

Far from the Assembly’s Transport Minister not being interested in north Wales, he represents a north Wales seat and has been communicating with me about electrifying the Wrexham-Bidston line. Will the Secretary of State please join our communication and work with us to improve public transport networks in north-east Wales?

[Mr Jones]

The Wrexham-Bidston line was also a matter under discussion last Friday. I mention again the two enterprise zones in Wirral Waters and Deeside, which would benefit enormously from the electrification of that line. I am very supportive of what the hon. Gentleman says.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Ian C. Lucas and David Jones

Wednesday 17th October 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jones]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right: Welsh universities do have a good tale to tell. I would like to single out Swansea university and its science campus, which it is developing closely with British and international industry.

[Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

Disability Employment Ltd of Stoke wants to inwardly invest in Wrexham to put disabled workers sacked by this Government back to work. Will the Secretary of State come to Wrexham a week on Friday to meet disabled workers from Remploy to explain to them why the Government will not support that company?

[Mr Jones]

As the hon. Gentleman knows, the Government’s policy on Remploy is to provide supported jobs in mainstream employment. I have had discussions with him previously about the issue. I am entirely happy to have further discussions with him if he requires. As to Friday, I cannot make any commitments as I do not have my diary. [Interruption.]

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Ian C. Lucas and David Jones

Wednesday 18th January 2012 Commons Chamber

[Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

3. If she will assess the effect on Wales of the implementation of the recommendations of the Sayce review on employment services for disabled people.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

Public consultation on the recommendations of the Sayce report has closed. The Government are analysing the responses and will consider the implications for Wales and across the country before publishing a statement on future policy.

[Ian Lucas]

Wrexham Remploy has made good progress in the last four years in providing jobs for disabled people in the Wrexham and north-east Wales area, but the Sayce review and its contents threaten Remploy, not just in Wrexham but throughout Wales. Unfortunately, the Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, the hon. Member for Basingstoke (Maria Miller), who has responsibility for disabled people, refuses to give me details of the financial position of Wrexham Remploy until the review is completed. Will the Minister please work with me to obtain those figures so that the 50 people who are employed in my constituency will know what their future is and know that the Government are not threatening them?

[Mr Jones]

The hon. Gentleman will know that the Sayce review made the commitment that existing employees in Remploy should be offered the opportunity of expert entrepreneurial and business support over a decent period of time to develop businesses, so the Sayce report shows commitment to Remploy. I hear what the hon. Gentleman says about his communications with my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary and if he would care to write to me, I will certainly pursue the matter.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Ian C. Lucas and David Jones

Wednesday 12th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

7. If she will assess the effects of changes to the feed-in tariff scheme on the solar industry in Wales.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

We will consult on proposed changes to the feed-in tariff scheme, and will produce an impact assessment setting out the effects across the UK in the autumn. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State and I have spoken to a number of businesses across the UK and understand their concerns in this regard.

[Ian Lucas]

Labour’s feed-in tariff created 300 jobs in my constituency. The Tories have increased unemployment in Wrexham in the past six months by 12.6%. Why are they reversing the successful Labour policy that is creating private sector jobs, when they are supposed to be favouring jobs and growth?

[Mr Jones]

I agree with the hon. Gentleman that Sharp is an extremely important employer in his constituency. He will be aware that the feed-in tariff scheme favoured large-scale solar farms, not the domestic installations, but I hope—indeed, I am sure—that he will welcome the announcement last month that Sharp has secured a multi-million-pound contract with Wrexham county borough council to install solar panels in 3,000 local authority homes.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Ian C. Lucas and David Jones

Wednesday 16th March 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jones]

It is fair to say that everyone recognises that the Barnett formula is nearing the end of its life. However, it is necessary to stabilise the public finances before we consider the formula. In the wake of the vote in the Welsh referendum, the coalition will establish a Calman-like process for the funding of the Welsh Assembly.

[Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

Earlier the Secretary of State said that the devolution settlement was a moving object. Will the commission to which the hon. Gentleman has just referred consider whether the Welsh Assembly should be given tax-varying powers?

[Mr Jones]

It is important that the Welsh Assembly should be accountable for its activities, and I can tell the hon. Gentleman that nothing is ruled out.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Ian C. Lucas and David Jones

Wednesday 2nd February 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jones]

My hon. Friend is entirely right. Airbus, which is an important employer in his constituency as well as in north Wales, has a great deal of which to be proud. Its recent announcement that it will offer permanent contracts to 770 agency workers in Broughton, who will build aircraft wings following the largest commercial order ever, is a great vote of confidence in the sector.

[Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

Does the Minister agree that the development of the supply chain for Airbus through companies such as Magellan Aerospace and Tritech in my constituency is a vital part of the development of the aerospace sector in the United Kingdom? What are the Government doing to support that?

[Mr Jones]

The Government are doing a great deal. It is clear that the high-tech, high-value-added industries will be the powerhouse for the economy in the future, which is why my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State visited the Deeside area recently to see what is being done by companies such as Toyota. As my hon. Friend says, there are some extremely good high-value, high-tech companies in his constituency.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Ian C. Lucas and David Jones

Wednesday 3rd November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

How will the removal of the right of local communities to appeal to the Boundary Commission through public inquiries enhance the power of local communities?

[Mr Jones]

These are matters on which the hon. Gentleman has had plenty of opportunity for debate on the Floor of the House, and he has made his full contribution. [Interruption.]

Welsh Grand Committee (Scrutiny)

Debate between Ian C. Lucas and David Jones

Tuesday 2nd November 2010 Westminster Hall

[Mr Jones]

I will not give way, because I have listened to speech after speech from Opposition Members and we have little time. [Interruption.] Perhaps I can address that.

This is a Bill on which many substantive votes have been called.

[Ian Lucas]

Will the Minister give way?