Daylight Saving Bill

Iain Stewart Excerpts

Friday 20th January 2012 Commons Chamber

[Jacob Rees-Mogg]

I have the greatest respect for the hon. Gentleman and, had I thought that he would welcome it, I would have supported his candidacy for the Labour leadership in Scotland. I kept very quiet about that, however, because I thought that I might do him more harm than good.

As has been pointed out by other Members, particularly my hon. Friend the Member for Na h-Eileanan an Iar (Mr MacNeil), it is easy to argue about such statistics. Given the general trend in the reduction in the number of casualties on the roads, the arguments are not as straightforwardly causal as some suggest.

[Iain Stewart (Milton Keynes South) (Con)]

My hon. Friend may be aware that the Select Committee on Transport, of which I am a member, is embarking on an inquiry into road safety measures. It will consider a range of matters, including speed limits and MOT tests. I think that it would be difficult to isolate the effect of changing daylight hours on the road accident figures.

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[Jacob Rees-Mogg]

The reason I brought it up to be linked is that if we get rid of clause 2 the President of the Board of Trade, which can meet with a quorum of one, would then be able to consider the issue by himself. Such a great brain—a brain that competes with Lenin’s and will be a matter of interest to scientific research—could consider this without the huge extra cost that might be incurred by paying the expenses of the members of the proposed oversight group, making facilities available to it and giving it written terms of reference.

[Iain Stewart]

Has my hon. Friend had an opportunity to quantify the cost to the public purse of such an oversight group?

[Jacob Rees-Mogg]

I have not, but I know that these things always cost more than is anticipated and that any great project, adventure or public spending scheme starts with the expectation that it will cost a few thousand pounds here or there, then a few tens of thousands, and then a few hundreds of thousands. Before we know it, the experiment is in place and we find that the cost to the British people runs into millions. Would it not be better to get rid of this group of experts and give it, as I have suggested, to the President of the Board of Trade, who would then be able, should he so wish, to convene a meeting to discuss it.

The Board of Trade is one of those fantastically underutilised bodies in British public life. It is a Committee of the Privy Council, established in the reign of His late Majesty King George III, and it last met in 1986 to celebrate its 200th anniversary. If the president were to summon the board’s members, it would have all the wisdom that the country would need to deliberate on this complex matter, because its members include His Grace the Archbishop of Canterbury, Mr Speaker himself—that would certainly set us on the right course—the First Lord of the Treasury, the Chancellor of the Exchequer and other Treasury Ministers. It would bring together a fantastic conference of wisdom and brain power—[Interruption.]

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[Mr Reid]

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. The words of the Home Secretary of the day sum it up best; the outcome was inconclusive.

This point is relevant to the amendment because one figure that came out of the trial was that whereas during that period road deaths in most of country went down, in the north of Scotland, they went up, and it should be borne in mind that even after the introduction of the breathalyser road deaths in the north of Scotland went up. That is important because it shows that there are different impacts in different parts of the United Kingdom. Therefore, amendment 13 is important.

[Iain Stewart]

My hon. Friend makes an important point about the declining number of road accidents in the previous experiment. Current road traffic casualty statistics are still on a downward trajectory, which is welcome, but if we had this experiment, it would be difficult to disentangle the continuation of that downward trend, for a range of other reasons, from the effect of changing the clocks.

[Mr Reid]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. That is why the Home Secretary of the day concluded that the result was inconclusive.

I tabled amendment 14 to attempt a compromise. My concern is about the dark mornings in my constituency in the depths of winter that will result from the Bill. Passing the amendment would allow the investigatory body to look at other options. My preference would be to bring forward the spring clock change to the middle of February. The October clock change is at the right time because there are eight weeks before the shortest day. Logically, if there were eight weeks in the other direction, the clocks would go forward in the middle of February. The importance of that is that we would avoid the dark winter mornings, but still have the benefit of lighter evenings in March.

Other amendments give specific days for the change of the clocks, but mine is the most suitable because it would allow the investigating committee some flexibility. I realise that it would breach the European directive, so the Government could not make that change even if the investigatory group recommended it unless the EU changed the directive. However, it would be an important addition to the Bill to allow the investigatory group to consider the possibility of moving the clocks forward at an earlier date. If its investigations and consultations showed that that was the right move to make, the Minister could be sent to Brussels to try to negotiate a change in the European directive. I am sure that similar issues must arise in the rest of Europe, so that is an option that amendment 14 would leave open

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[Mr MacNeil]

That is a very interesting question. Debate, discussion and arguments can of course be invigorating, and can cause serotonin and other useful hormones to flow through the body. The hon. Gentleman may be on to something. I am sure that a considerable constituency in the country would be greatly cheered by a fight with Europe—myself included, certainly when it comes to fishing issues.

Let me return to the amendment, Mr Deputy Speaker. One of my main complaints is that most of the data used by the campaigns are based on simulations and estimates. Dr Elizabeth Garnsey, author of the report on daylight saving that has been used by Lighter Later, has said:

“the data that are being used in the BRE report are simulated data. They are illustrative data—that is, invented data. When you do a simulation of that kind your outputs are going to represent the input assumptions that you made.”

In many senses, those data might not be real. However, I shall try to use only empirical data to prove my point.

The hon. Member for Christchurch (Mr Chope) was very concerned with the issue of happiness, as, indeed, was the hon. Member for North East Somerset (Jacob Rees-Mogg). I hope that I have pronounced his constituency correctly, as he pronounces mine so well: I hope that I have used the correct Somerset intonations.

On the issue of depression and sunlight, those leading the change campaign have said that more light in the evening can help to abate seasonal affective disorder and depression, using a 1993 study to prove their case. However, Professor Michael Terman, a PhD who works in the Department of Psychiatry at Columbia University in America, conducted a study this year that proved the exact opposite, and his findings were supported by Dr Malcolm von Schantz of the University of Surrey. Dr Terman found that darker mornings lead to increased depression, because the body’s natural clock needs morning sunlight in order to operate properly.

[Iain Stewart]

The hon. Gentleman has raised an important point. Many people in my constituency, which is in the south-east of England, commute to London daily. Indeed, I was a daily commuter myself before I was elected. In the winter, doing both journeys in the dark is a pretty miserable experience, and I fear that the time change would subject more commuters to more misery in the winter.