Government Referendum Leaflet

Hywel Williams Excerpts

Monday 11th April 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

As I said earlier, we judge that the benefit to the leave campaign—and, for that matter, to the remain campaign, once both are designated—of a publicly funded leaflet distribution will be of the order of £15 million, which is significantly more than the sums we are talking about this afternoon. Those two campaign bodies will be free to campaign and communicate right up until polling day, including during the final 28 days, during which time the Government’s freedom to do so will be severely constrained. I will also just say to my right hon. Friend that I have never felt that those who support a British exit needed much galvanising.

[Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC)]

EU membership is very valuable for Wales and Plaid Cymru is very much in favour both of reform and of remaining within the EU; we believe another Europe is possible, and will be campaigning for that. I am, however, dismayed by the negativity of the Government’s campaign, effected in much of the leaflet, which even the BBC managed to label this morning as “snappily titled”. Will the Minister concede the possibility that he may be repeating the mistakes of “Project Fear”? I add, if I may, that the online version of the leaflet, which is available now irrespective of the Welsh Assembly and Scottish elections, does not appear to be available in Welsh—although, exceptionally in this case, possibly thankfully so.

[Mr Lidington]

I do not agree that this is negative. When people are considering how to vote on 23 June, they will want to weigh up both the arguments about the benefits that the United Kingdom gains from membership of the European Union and the potential risks of departure and of trying to forge some other kind of relationship with the EU from the outside.

I make no secret of the fact that the judgment about whether we should remain members of the European Union is a pragmatic one, both for the Government and, I think, for most British voters. We accept that not everything about the European Union is perfect—one cannot be Europe Minister for six years and believe that it is perfect—but we believe that the clear balance of the argument lies in continued membership that will help to keep us more secure and prosperous, and we have tried to express that in this publication.

Europe: Renegotiation

Hywel Williams Excerpts

Tuesday 10th November 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I am very keen to accommodate colleagues, but progress is leisurely—some might even describe it as lethargic. As I like guessing games and want to encourage Members to think, let me suggest that if they could model their contributions on those of the right hon. Members for Wokingham (John Redwood) and for Birmingham, Edgbaston (Ms Stuart), progress would be altogether speedier.

[Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC)]

I thank the Minister for his statement and for early sight of it. In his statement, he used the phrase “salary to be subsidised by the state.” How will the Government differentiate legally between salaries subsidised by the state for foreigners and tax credits to hand out to UK citizens?

[Mr Lidington]

Those are all matters that will be addressed during the course of the negotiations.

European Union Referendum Bill

Hywel Williams Excerpts

Thursday 18th June 2015 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Gethins]

As is often the case, the hon. Lady is absolutely spot-on. The facts that I have read out show that giving 16 and 17-year-olds the vote is the way to make them more politically engaged from an earlier age, and therefore more likely to vote later in life.

[Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC)]

The hon. Gentleman was giving reasons why young people would be interested in the referendum in general. I referred in my speech on Second Reading to the wider horizons that young people have. The unity we seek in Europe is a matter not only of the stomach and the wallet, but of the imagination and the spirit. The referendum could be an opportunity for those young people to express that hope.

[Stephen Gethins]

The hon. Gentleman made an excellent contribution on Tuesday, and he makes an excellent point today. I think that 16 and 17-year-olds have a perspective that many of us lack, just as people from an older generation have their own perspective, and that is what makes our democracy so rich. He and the hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion (Caroline Lucas) have made excellent points.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Wollaston]

I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention, but I feel that this is the right age to have the opportunity. Do I think that 16-year-olds have the capacity to make decisions and weigh all the arguments in the balance in this referendum vote? Absolutely. I cannot believe how I could walk into classrooms to meet 16 and 17-year-olds, look them in the eye and say, “Actually, I do not believe that you have the capacity to understand and make a case.”

[Hywel Williams]

Are not the people who are arguing against votes at 16 also doubting, by extension, the virtue of the vote in Scotland earlier this year, which came down, of course, on the Unionist side?

[Dr Wollaston]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that point and take another intervention.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mike Gapes]

This Bill is more than a local or national matter; it has wide-ranging international implications. Before the hon. Gentleman puts his hands up in the air, he should note that EU citizens living in the UK can vote for MEPs in this country. Given the wide ramifications for our relations with our partners in other European countries, and the mingling and movement of peoples and investments, which is an inevitable consequence of a European Union with a population of 500 million, there are enormous interests for many British people and their families in having a say on this proposal. That is not being allowed to many of them at the moment.

[Hywel Williams]

Conservative Members liken this argument to arguments about local government, but the Scottish referendum was based on a franchise of 16-year-olds and European citizens voting, and it could be scarcely have been on a more profound matter: the very Union of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

[Mike Gapes]

I absolutely agree with that. I will conclude my remarks with the hope that both Front-Bench teams are listening to the points I have made, because the voice of the European Union citizens living in the UK and of British people living elsewhere in the EU needs to be heard in this debate.

--- Later in debate ---

[Chloe Smith]

Yes, I do agree. I think my right hon. Friend is echoing a point made by the hon. Member for North East Fife (Stephen Gethins). The question of the quality of the evidence available to us is a difficult one. Any “evidence” will be something like a poll of 16 and 17-year-olds asking, “Would you like this franchise?” My understanding of the evidence is that it is extremely mixed. I have seen polls of 16 and 17-year-olds asking them that question, and they say, “Yes please.” I have also seen polls of a wider age group asking, “Would you like this franchise, or would you have liked this franchise?” to which they reply, “No, we’re not so sure, because we think we might not be ready,” if they are younger than 16, or, “We might not have been ready,” if they are older.

[Hywel Williams]

One does not have to speculate about the effect of lowering the voting age to 16. Musings from the other side are not necessary when one merely has to look at what happened in Scotland.

[Chloe Smith]

I take that point, but I still think the evidence is mixed. We have one—very strong—example. Ruth Davidson is one Conservative, and I am another, who reflects positively on that experience and thinks that we should learn from it, but other evidence in this arena is scant and not concrete.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Temporary Chair]

I call Hywel Williams.

[Hywel Williams]

I am glad to speak in support of amendments 18 and 19 and new clause 2, which stand in the name of my right hon. Friend the Member for Gordon (Alex Salmond), other SNP Members, Members from Plaid Cymru and the Green Member.

Usually I do not quote individual cases because there are many dangers in speaking about the individual circumstances of constituents, but in speaking about this matter I will describe briefly two cases that prove the rule, in the proper sense of the phrase. I am aware that hard cases make bad law, but we are talking about 2.3 million cases in total. These are just the cases of a couple of friends of mine.

The first is Swedish and has been resident here for more than 20 years. She is an NHS worker in the tough field of mental health and she pays her taxes. She is Welsh-speaking, English-speaking and Swedish-speaking, and she has two children and a husband who also speak Welsh, English and a bit of Swedish. In my book, she is a Welsh citizen—there is no doubt about that—but if she tried to vote in the referendum, she would be turned away.

The second is a Danish friend who has been resident here for 35 years. She is a university worker who pays her taxes. She is Welsh-speaking, Danish-speaking and English-speaking. She has two children and a husband. Again, in my book, she is a Welsh citizen, but should she try to vote, she would be turned away. That is plainly outrageous.

Those people are not public figures, they are not famous, but they are hard-working members of their communities. They have an equal stake in the collective future of those communities and, in my book, they have an equal right to have their voices heard. In that sense, I fully support the amendment. It would be outrageous if those people were denied the right to vote on a matter of such importance.

Briefly, I will turn to votes at 16. Right hon. and hon. Members will know that the Government’s St David’s day Command Paper on the future of devolution in Wales proposed that the Assembly should decide on the issue of votes for 16 and 17-year-olds. There is strong opinion in favour of that move in Wales. In 2008, the Welsh Assembly collectively decided that it was in favour of it. Interestingly, in 2014, the Children’s Commissioner for Wales said that more work had to be done on the issue. He was pressing for the franchise to be extended before the 2015 election, but that did not happen. Opinion in Wales is strongly in favour of votes at 16.

There have been early-day motions and private Members’ Bills in this place on extending the franchise. One of those was introduced by a Welsh Member, others were introduced by Liberal Democrat Members and one was introduced by the hon. Member for North East Derbyshire (Natascha Engel), although, given her current status, I do not want to suggest that she is in any way biased on this issue now. There is, however, a great deal of support for votes at 16.

As I said earlier, any speculations that we make about the effect of introducing votes at 16 are trumped by the experience in Scotland. That experience trumps all the counter-arguments. We do not need any fanciful musing from Government Members, because we have the proof in respect of engagement in the debate and in respect of turnout. As my right hon. Friend the Member for Gordon said on Second Reading, one reason why there was engagement in the referendum is that people were talking about a real question, whereas there are doubts about whether the referendum provided for in the Bill will be on a real question. Perhaps that might be explored later.

As I said earlier, if people doubt the value of 16 and 17-year-olds having a vote on this crucial question, that might be thought to throw some doubt on the value of the results of a referendum decided partly by the votes of those aged 16 and 17. I am sure that the opponents of the amendments today are not saying that, but one should make that point.

[Ben Howlett (Bath) (Con)]

Given what the hon. Gentleman has just said and the time it has taken the Welsh Assembly to provide an argument in favour of votes at 16, surely he should oppose the amendments to provide more time for a coherent review of the matter.

[Hywel Williams]

The hon. Gentleman’s argument, which was also made by the hon. Member for Norwich North (Chloe Smith), who is no longer in her place, reminds me of the ancient joke, “Make me holy, but not just yet”. I believe that we need to move quickly on the matter.

Over the years, from my experience in my constituency of visiting sixth-formers during what I suppose we would call civics lessons to talk about my work, they are hugely interested in and committed to voting as soon as possible. They want to know what we do here, and they want to get involved. I have often felt humbled by the sincerity of the opinions that they hold, which can sometimes be compared with the insincerity of some of the opinions that their older peers have.

I also draw the Committee’s attention to my experience during the election campaign, when hustings were held at my local secondary schools. It was a tough experience, and we were questioned hard by young people who were totally engaged in the campaign, some of whom were able to vote. Another experience that humbled me was seeing a large group of young people coming down from school to the polling booth at lunchtime to vote together. They were proud to do so, and I was even more proud to see that they were all voting for me. I cannot say how young people would vote in an EU referendum—I suspect I know, but I cannot guarantee it. However, I trust them, and I believe they have a right to be heard.

[James Cartlidge]

I want to make two key points about the amendments on voting age, which are what most Members have been talking about. I agree in principle with reducing the voting age to 16 in general elections, but I do not think that that should happen in the referendum. The most important point for me—there is no nice way of saying this—is that the electorate in the UK are top-heavy. In the election campaign, it was striking how issues affecting older voters had greater resonance simply because of the power of older voters. I have tried to put that as apolitically as possible, even though there are obviously political implications to voters’ ages.

I am trying to be as objective as possible in saying that it is in the interests of public policy to extend the vote to 16-year-olds. We would make better policy as a country, because, as my hon. Friend the Member for Norwich North (Chloe Smith) said in her fantastic speech, there is a growing intergenerational divide. She talked about the one nation idea, and I worry about the situation. We can look at how difficult it is for us to address older people’s benefits—that is a psephological fact. Once those benefits have been handed out, they are hard to claw back, because people will vote accordingly. It might be easier to do something about benefits, public spending and so on for young people, because they do not have a say to the same degree. That is not a cynical point, just an observation on the polity as it is today, and it is my key reason for wishing to lower the voting age to 16.

I know that points are made about bringing adulthood to a younger age, as was mentioned earlier, and I do worry about that. I have four children—my eldest is eight—and I would worry about anything that made young people less innocent, but I do not think that comes into effect when we are talking about public policy.

European Union Referendum Bill

Hywel Williams Excerpts

Tuesday 9th June 2015 Commons Chamber

[Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC)]

I should like to begin by congratulating all the new Members who have made their maiden speeches this afternoon, particularly my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow South (Stewart McDonald), who made an accomplished and confident contribution that will stand him in good stead into the future.

Plaid Cymru is in favour of Wales remaining in the European Union, so the answer to the question in clause 1(5) of the Bill should be a resounding “dyla”, or even “ia” or “ie”. There are several ways of saying yes in Welsh. We are a critical friend of the EU, but our firm belief is that Wales should stay in. That is based on at least three counts, all of which have a bearing on the Bill and on the referendum.

First, we see ourselves as Welsh and European. The European Union reflects our multicultural and multilingual social reality in Wales. Indeed, that condition is normal throughout most of the world, although sadly not always in these islands. Secondly we value the peace, stability and openness between peoples that the EU has fostered over the decades. That is the true meaning for us of the phrase “ever-closer union of peoples”. Thirdly, although there are problems, not least in the lax enforcement of employment standards, Wales enjoys significant economic and social benefits within the EU. These might be endangered in a renegotiation that is heedless of our requirements and would certainly be put in jeopardy were we to be dragged unwillingly out.

Throughout our history, Wales has had links with other European countries beyond the valuable links with our nearest neighbours. Plaid Cymru’s support for the idea of one Europe stretches back right to the foundation of our party. We put enormous stress on our role as part of the struggle against the dehumanising effect of the large state with its oppressive drive toward uniformity and centralisation, and this stance has always been mirrored by the moral and political value we place on supranational co-operation.

As Common Market membership became a probability in the 1970s, we were sceptical of that very common market as an exclusively economic entity. That is of course very much what some Eurosceptics now long for, and we remain sceptical of their position. The European Union that emerged in the 1980s, however, allowed smaller nations more of a voice and we continue to work for a “Europe of regions and smaller nations”. That underpins our membership in the European Parliament of the Greens/European Free Alliance group of like-minded national, regional and green parties.

Our leader, Leanne Wood, has set out our standpoint on this referendum. The result should be announced nationally for Wales and if our nation decides to stay in the EU it should not be dragged out against its will. The same goes for the other nations of the UK. Our 16 and 17-year-olds should have a say in the future direction of our country and EU nationals living here should have a vote, as they do for local, European and National Assembly elections and as they did in the Scottish independence referendum.

We want the EU to be reformed. We want a greater say for Wales with direct representation for Welsh Ministers, a reformed and improved regional policy, safeguards for our environment and in areas such as food standards, the reform of the tripartite structure to include the Committee of the Regions, and an end to the scandalous waste of the Strasbourg Parliament. We oppose the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership. However, to want an end to all those things does not mean that we want out.

What happens if there is a no vote? Wales has some of the poorest communities in the UK and in western Europe. The UK Government must set out contingency plans to replace structural funds and the common agricultural policy, which provide billions of pounds to Welsh communities every year. We are deeply sceptical about the UK’s commitment to continue such funding as many of us still bear the scars of the protracted campaign to enable Wales to benefit from objective 1 funding in the first place and we well recall the institutional obstructionism from London that we had to overcome.

The family farm is the cornerstone of Welsh rural life and the rural economy. It is vital that support for the family farm and agriculture, which support our culture and language, continues. We know nothing of any replacement for vital funds to support our farming communities. Those are yet more reasons why Plaid Cymru will fight to keep Wales in the EU. Our reservations about the Bill are clear and tonight we will vote accordingly.

Palestine

Hywel Williams Excerpts

Monday 1st December 2014 Westminster Hall

[Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC)]

Many countries have already recognised Palestine, and their numbers are growing. Last Friday, French politicians debated a motion inviting the French Government

“to use the recognition of the state of Palestine as an instrument to gain a definitive resolution of the conflict”.

That goes to the heart of the matter. France is the latest European country expected to vote in favour of recognising Palestine, following this House’s groundbreaking, if non-binding, vote in October, official recognition by Sweden on 30 October and the symbolic vote by the Spanish Parliament on 18 November.

In response, Benjamin Netanyahu said that France’s vote would be tantamount to showing solidarity with Islamic State. He is quoted as saying:

“Do they have nothing better to do at a time of beheadings across the Middle East, including that of a French citizen?”

That was a reference to Monsieur Hervé Gourdel, a hiker from the Marseilles area who was murdered by his captors in Algeria in September—many Members will remember that tragic event. Monsieur Gourdel was deeply mourned by people in his locality, but Mr Netanyahu seems to recommend a limit to compassion—a view I do not share.

Given such comments, we see why the world needs to stand in favour of recognition—a stance that would bolster democracy in the middle east, rather than undermine it.

[Tim Farron (Westmorland and Lonsdale) (LD)]

Would the hon. Gentleman not agree that Mr Netanyahu is quite wrong to say that recognising a Palestinian state would support extremism? It would do exactly the opposite: it would bolster the moderate position in the Palestinian cause and make the two-state solution and peace all the more likely.

[Hywel Williams]

I entirely agree. We need to promote discussion, and that is one way of taking it forward. We need to give international legitimacy to the Palestinian people and reaffirm their right to land.

The UK Government and Governments throughout Europe and the world should recognise Palestine; otherwise, there will be no end to the blockade or the conflict, last summer’s war will be reignited and the tragic process will repeat itself on both sides. That is why I voted in favour of the motion in October calling for recognition. I said that the UK had a special responsibility as the immediate former imperial power, as a permanent member of the UN Security Council, as a guarantor of the Geneva convention and given our recent disastrous interventions in middle east affairs.

Hon. Members will recall that the vote in favour of the motion was 274 to 12. I was glad of the opportunity to restate Plaid Cymru’s position on the matter. I have also welcomed the decision by my local authority, Gwynedd county council, not to invest in or trade with Israel.

[Guto Bebb (Aberconwy) (Con)]

I actually live in the Gwynedd county council area, and I am fascinated by the fact that a majority of Plaid Cymru members voted to boycott Israel. However, the last time I contacted the local authority, it was still using IT systems using Israeli technology.

[Hywel Williams]

I am glad to hear from my constituent. That was the stance taken by Gwynedd county council, and that is the stance it will implement. It is clearly right to stop trade with illegal settlements, rather than just condemning their establishment. I hope the leadership shown by Gwynedd county council will encourage other councils in Wales and across the UK to do the same. I ask the Minister to back moves to stop trade with settlements and to follow the example of the Spanish Government by stopping the arms trade with Israel.

ISIL: Iraq and Syria

Hywel Williams Excerpts

Thursday 16th October 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hammond]

To answer my right hon. Friend’s last point first, yes, I think there is a widespread realism in Baghdad, not just among the Gulf Arab countries, that a viable future Iraq will have to involve considerable devolution of autonomy to the Sunni areas, as well as to the Kurdish region. The recognition of that by Prime Minister al-Abadi is an important step forward, but he still faces huge challenges in delivering it because not all of his own Shi’a block in Parliament understands the existential need to devolve power within Iraq if the country is to remain together.

My right hon. Friend asked me about the Sunni tribes in Anbar. He is of course right. There are three potential forces in Iraq to fight ISIL: the Kurdish peshmerga; the Iraqi security forces, once they are reorganised and retrained; and the Sunni tribes in Anbar and other western provinces. A significant programme of outreach to tribal leaders is going on, partly led by Sunni Gulf countries that have tribal links to them. Also, we, and our American partners, have significant links to these tribes from our own time operating in Iraq and through key individuals who developed significant personal relationships with tribal leaders and have access to them.

[Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC)]

I, too, was surprised at the lack of reference in the Foreign Secretary’s statement to the role of Turkey. May I get a response from him on one point? Will he prevail on the Turkish Government not to attack legitimate civilian protest in locations as far apart as Van, Mardin, Diyarbakir and Istanbul? Up to 9 October, 33 civilians have been killed by Turkish police and paramilitaries, and 336 people, I believe, have been injured, allegedly by Turkish forces chanting, “Long live ISIL”.

[Mr Hammond]

We regret the outbreak of violence in domestic protests in Turkey—something we had hoped we had put behind us—and, as always, we deplore the use of violence in protests and the use of violence by the authorities in dealing with those protests. We make our views known consistently to our Turkish allies.

Palestine and Israel

Hywel Williams Excerpts

Monday 13th October 2014 Commons Chamber

[Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Easington (Grahame M. Morris) on securing this debate on a matter that is important to many people throughout the UK, Wales and Arfon. My local authority, Gwynedd, has taken a lead in condemning the Israeli Government for the indiscriminate violence used in the recent attacks in Gaza and will not invest in or trade with Israel. Gwynedd sees this debate, and our vote, as a key measure of our concern for Palestine, and of progress on the peace process and on a two-state settlement. That process is vital for both Palestine and Israel alike. People in Palestine who long for progress and peace, and many Israelis, will take encouragement from a positive vote here tonight. For we can vote for politics, for discussions between equals and for an end to war, or we can stall, find excuses and point to the latest outrage. That will help and encourage nobody, other than those who choose the gun, the rocket, the air strikes and the blockade.

Our Government can decide to recognise Palestine. We make our own policy and we are subject to no outside veto. We can recognise Palestine, we can judge that the time is right, and we have a responsibility to seize the opportunity and to wield our influence as a permanent member of the Security Council, as a member of the Quartet, and as the imperial power historically responsible for the mandate. Others today have discussed the history of this question but I will not. I will just say that throughout my adult life there has been war between Israel and its neighbours. We have seen constant invasion, the expropriation of territory by the supporters of war in Israel and, to be clear, repetitive retaliation and a determined cry from the war party, “Not now, not just yet, not until they have stopped it.” That “it” could be bus bombings, hijackings or rockets, but whatever it is at the time we have seen constant blocking and constant concentration on the latest outrage. Those Israelis and Jewish people across the world who work for peace, reconciliation and a just settlement have been sidelined, ignored and worse. Recognition of Palestine by the UK would call time on this constant conflict.

I have heard arguments that the vote tonight will change nothing. We have seen such arguments in an article in The Daily Telegraph today by my close neighbour, who is unaccountably not in his place, the hon. Member for Aberconwy (Guto Bebb). He says that the vote is

“non-binding and has no implications for British foreign policy.”

Paradoxically, he says that it will damage decades of hard work towards peace. He says that

“international opinion won’t be swayed by a few squabbling MPs on Britain’s Opposition benches”

but also that the motion

“damages Britain’s role in the Middle East”.

With such confusion and contradiction coming from one opponent—

[Sir Alan Duncan]

Does the hon. Gentleman not find it astonishing that having tabled an amendment and withdrawn it, and clearly feeling so strongly about this issue, my hon. Friend the Member for Aberconwy then advocates abstaining not just from the vote, but from the debate itself?

[Hywel Williams]

I know him of old and I am not surprised. As I said, with such confusion and contradiction coming from just one opponent, let alone opponents of the motion as a group, it is not surprising that many of them will, apparently, choose to abstain tonight.

I want to take the opportunity to reject yet again the conflation of opposition to the Israeli Government’s war policy with supposed enmity towards the Jewish people. That is a peculiar charge, given that a significant number of Jewish people support peace. It will hardly surprise anyone in the House to hear that Plaid Cymru MPs say that to recognise Palestine is to recognise Palestinian people’s rights to self-determination. We support the rights of all people to self-determination, and that is why we will support the amended motion in the Lobby tonight.

Afghanistan

Hywel Williams Excerpts

Tuesday 9th September 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hammond]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right—that is of course essential. The analogy with Libya can be misleading, though. The problem in Libya is a power vacuum. In Afghanistan, we have a Government clearly in control of most of the country, we have the basic institutions of civil government in place, and we have the 350,000-strong armed forces who are in control of most of the country. That is a very different situation from the one in Libya.

[Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC)]

Prior to the NATO summit, Mr Rasmussen looked forward to a new chapter in our relationship with Afghanistan. What hope is there for that new relationship, with further and continuing Taliban violence and the election result as yet still undeclared?

[Mr Hammond]

The situation is not perfect, and I am not pretending that it is. We would have preferred a clear and decisive outcome to the presidential election that was accepted immediately by the losing candidate. That is not what we have, although we are very optimistic that the stalemate will be resolved over the next few days. With regard to continuing Taliban violence, nobody ever doubted that there would be a continuing insurgency. The question is whether we have created strong enough institutions of government, strong enough civil institutions and strong enough armed forces to contain that insurgency and allow the normal life of the country to go on and to function. Of course, once the new Government are installed and foreign forces have withdrawn, thus removing one of the principal bones of contention for many of the insurgents, there must then be a move towards a peace process that reconciles the elements of the Taliban who are willing to give up violence with the existing forces of the Government so that we have long-term and sustainable peace in Afghanistan.

Iran (Joint Plan of Action)

Hywel Williams Excerpts

Wednesday 26th February 2014 Westminster Hall

On resuming—

[Hywel Williams (in the Chair)]

Mr Clappison, had you finished your remarks?

[Mr Clappison]

As long as it is shown that I was saying that we must make every effort and use every endeavour to prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons, I will conclude.

--- Later in debate ---

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Hywel Williams (in the Chair)]

Order. The debate will conclude no later than 4.14 pm.

Persecution of Christians (Middle East)

Hywel Williams Excerpts

Tuesday 5th November 2013 Westminster Hall

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Hywel Williams (in the Chair)]

Order. Seven Members have said that they wish to speak. I intend to call the Front-Bench speakers at 10.40 am, so I appeal to Members to keep their remarks brief and to the point, and to restrain themselves in interventions, if they can.

--- Later in debate ---

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Hywel Williams (in the Chair)]

Order. I emphasise again that time is short and I might have to impose a time limit on speeches.

--- Later in debate ---

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Hywel Williams (in the Chair)]

Order. I will have to impose a time limit on speeches. Can hon. Members confine themselves to three minutes apiece—less, if possible?

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Swire]

I shall certainly take my hon. Friend’s point on board.

The Government base their position on article 18 of the universal declaration of human rights, which states:

“Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his or her religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his or her religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.”

Promoting human rights, including religious freedom, is an important part of British foreign policy. Ministers and officials at our embassies and high commissions regularly raise concerns with host Governments about violations of the right to freedom of religion or belief. I shall ensure that our ambassador to the Vatican does that. For example, when they met at the UN General Assembly on 23 September, my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary urged his Egyptian counterpart to ensure that Egypt’s new constitution would include a protection for the rights of minorities. We also regularly meet leaders of religious communities and civil society organisations from around the world, with a view to understanding their concerns better. We actively work with them to promote a universal commitment to religious freedom and to promote tolerance and understanding for, between and within all faiths, in line with article 18 of the universal declaration of human rights.

I hope that the right hon. Member for East Ham (Stephen Timms), who urged Ministers to engage, will support the Prime Minister’s trip to Sri Lanka for the Commonwealth Heads of Government meeting in the next few weeks. He will be the first western leader to go to the north of the country to engage with the minority Tamil community. I hope that the right hon. Gentleman agrees that that is the right way to proceed, despite the alternative view taken by the Front Bench in his party, that the UK should not attend.

We continue to work with the international community to combat religious intolerance and protect human rights. In September, at the UN General Assembly, my noble Friend Baroness Warsi convened a group of Foreign Ministers and officials from international organisations for the second in a series of meetings to discuss international efforts to fight violence in the name of religion and to promote freedom of religion and belief for all. We intend that to be a continuing initiative to build up greater political will to tackle the issue in the countries where it matters most.

Some right hon. and hon. Members who spoke were tempted to go slightly further afield than the middle east in their remarks, but I shall confine my remarks to the middle east. Some interesting points were made about the middle east as the birthplace of Christianity, Islam and Judaism, which makes the religious persecution there all the more poignant. My hon. Friends the Members for Cities of London and Westminster (Mark Field) and for Aberconwy (Guto Bebb) mentioned Israel and Palestine. It is true that less than 2% of the population of Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories is Christian today, compared with 22% at the end of the British mandate in 1948. I heard what my hon. Friends said, but we continue to be concerned about access to holy sites for all, including Christians and Muslims. On the point that my hon. Friend the Member for Aberconwy raised about the Syrians who came to his constituency surgery, if he would like to write to me, I shall respond and lay out our policy on asylum seekers.

The period since 2011 has indeed been a difficult one for various religious communities across the region. Many are suffering and, tragically, there is a risk in some countries of the disappearance of religious communities that have existed there peacefully for centuries. As right hon. and hon. Members—in particular, my hon. Friend the Member for Enfield, Southgate—have said, the great majority of communities that are suffering are Christian. It is right to continue to highlight that, but also to be concerned with all persecuted minorities. We want freedom of religion or belief for all: a universal human right.

The effects of the crisis in Syria are particularly on our minds. Life in Syria for Christians and other minorities continues to be extremely difficult. We have serious concerns about rising sectarian tension and believe that President Assad is deliberately attempting to stir up such tensions in his efforts to hold on to power. Non-Alawite minorities, including Christian communities, are in a vulnerable position, not only because of the relatively small size of their communities and their geographic dispersal, but because they are neither Sunni, like the majority of the opposition, nor Alawite, like the core of the regime. The largest Christian communities in the country were in Aleppo and Homs, where some of the most intense clashes between the regime and the opposition have happened. We are working hard, with the moderate Syrian National Coalition, to find a diplomatic solution to the conflict and to support the building of a Syria that respects the rights of all its citizens, whatever their race, religion or lack of religion.

My hon. Friend the Member for Congleton is right to point out that we have provided more than £500 million of humanitarian aid—the largest ever UK response to a single crisis. Last week, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for International Development announced that her Department would support UNICEF’s Syrian children appeal by matching public donations pound for pound. We also support a number of projects designed to increase dialogue and reduce tensions between different communities to promote minority rights, including almost £520,000 to train Sunni, Alawite, Christian, Druze, Armenian and Kurdish community and religious leaders. We have also provided support to create a network of peace-building committees in Syria by training and providing guidance and mentorship to nearly 500 activists.

On 16 October, the Foreign Office Minister with responsibility for human rights policy, Baroness Warsi, met Melkite Greek Catholic Patriarch Gregorius III, and they discussed the Geneva II process to establish peace negotiations, the plight of Christians in Syria and the humanitarian crisis affecting Syria and the region. The Minister underlined our commitment to speaking up on behalf of all those who are targeted for their religion or belief. We have made it clear that those responsible for human rights violations and abuses should be held to account. We believe that the International Criminal Court will have a role to play, and I confirm that we have condemned the kidnapping of the bishops and called for their release, as my hon. Friend asked.

In Egypt, the Coptic Church continues to experience many challenges. For example, we have just marked the second anniversary of the Maspero massacre, in which 28 Christians taking part in a demonstration were killed. Following the military intervention to remove Mohammad Morsi on 3 July this year, there has also been a rise in the number of violent sectarian attacks. Churches, homes, businesses and individuals have been attacked. My right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary has publicly condemned the attacks and urged that there should be inclusive political dialogue. The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office, my right hon. Friend the Member for Faversham and Mid Kent (Hugh Robertson), condemned the killing of four guests at a Coptic Christian wedding as recently as 20 October.

We are also concerned about the situation for religious minorities in other countries of the region. In Iran, the Baha’i are subject to mounting pressure. We are concerned by state efforts—

[Hywel Williams (in the Chair)]

Order. I apologise to the Minister, and I am grateful to Members for their co-operation.