Public Sector Pay

Hugh Gaffney Excerpts

Tuesday 24th July 2018 Commons Chamber

[Elizabeth Truss]

As we have said, pay rises above the 1% that was previously budgeted for will be funded from central DFE budgets. [Interruption.] To the hon. Member for Wythenshawe and Sale East (Mike Kane), who is shouting from a sedentary position, I say that the funding will be not from schools budgets, but from central DFE budgets. We are moving this money to the frontline to make sure that teachers are properly supported. The rate for headteachers is 1.5% but, as I have already said in answer to the hon. Member for Bath (Wera Hobhouse), there is flexibility where there are recruitment issues.

[Hugh Gaffney (Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill) (Lab)]

If these pay rises are from departmental cuts, this will mean no new money, which will result in further public services being lost and redundancies to follow. Does the Chief Secretary agree?

[Elizabeth Truss]

I think that the fastest way to have redundancies is to create a run on the pound and overthrow capitalism.

Homelessness among Refugees

Hugh Gaffney Excerpts

Tuesday 17th July 2018 Westminster Hall

[Hugh Gaffney (Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Henry, and thank you for calling me to speak. It is pleasure to speak in this debate, and I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Stretford and Urmston (Kate Green) for her powerful speech.

A local Member could pick up many issues to champion in this place. As well as fighting for workers’ rights, for a better deal for the people of my constituency and for a Labour Government, I have chosen to focus in part on refugees and the crisis that they face throughout the world. Earlier this year, I led a Westminster Hall debate about refugee family reunion. It was a good debate, with colleagues from across the House making sensible and at times moving contributions about the situation that refugees, often women and children, are facing here and in other parts of the world.

Let us be clear that those seeking refuge are fleeing violence, famine, disaster and oppression, and they deserve the right to something that we all have and that we fight for for our constituents—a safe, secure and long-term home. The crisis facing refugees has many elements, and the homelessness element is key. The Refugee Council noted that for many years the refugee sector has highlighted the high rate of homelessness among new refugees who have recently been granted status in the United Kingdom.

Almost 160,000 households experience homelessness across the United Kingdom, and around 9,000 people sleep rough on our UK streets on any given night. We see that in London and in Westminster, and I have seen it across Scotland. The high rate is caused by the short period in which new refugees are expected to move into mainstream accommodation. That is made far more difficult by the pressures on local government and housing associations, which have seen an increase in homelessness across the board. There are delays in accessing the social security system that is there to support those without.

We have all seen the Tory Government’s sustained and at times inhumane welfare policy, which has simply made things worse. Let us look at personal independence payments, universal credit, the cuts to housing benefit and the sanctions dished out for not turning up to work or an interview. Brexit chaos—a disaster made in Downing Street and in the office of the hon. Member for North East Somerset (Mr Rees-Mogg)—will make it even more difficult for refugees to secure the support and training needed to enter the workforce. Getting a job at all will be difficult if we crash out of the European Union as many on the Government Benches would like us to.

We have to act; we have to deliver; we have to do more. Members from all parties will agree that we need improvements to the way we support refugees and honour our responsibilities to the most vulnerable. I would like the Government to give this House and millions of people in our United Kingdom and across the world the assurance that Britain will focus on our responsibility to vulnerable women, men and children who come to Britain seeking peace and safety.

I wrote to the Minister for Immigration following the debate I led in February 2018, but I still have not had any reply, despite sending several follow-ups. No response. That is disappointing, and I hope my requests for information and answers will not be ignored today. In the context of the Government’s recent integrated communities Green Paper, what specific measures will they take to address refugee homelessness in this country? What discussions have taken place with the devolved Administrations in Cardiff and Edinburgh and with the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland to ensure that there is a co-ordinated response to this crisis across our United Kingdom? What discussions have taken place with housing associations to see how they can assist with the provision of safe and affordable homes for those who need one? What discussions have taken place with the Local Government Association to identify what support local government needs to be able to play its part? Finally, what thought has been given to introducing rent controls so that rogue landlords cannot lead us in a race to the bottom?

The housing crisis in our country needs addressing immediately. Hon. Members from all parties in this House know that this Government can act. I see a lot of young people sitting in the Public Gallery; they know what the housing crisis is like. Let us give them all a chance.

Treasury Spending: Grants to Devolved Institutions

Hugh Gaffney Excerpts

Tuesday 3rd July 2018 Commons Chamber

[Kirsty Blackman]

The Labour party was in charge in Holyrood before and could have cancelled the right to buy then, but it sadly did not. Unfortunately, we are trying to undo the legacy of Margaret Thatcher, who put in place the right to buy. We are trying to undo the legacy of the decimation of our council housing stock. The reality is that we can only build houses so quickly, and we are doing our very best. I would like to see the Labour party do a better job, to be honest.

[Hugh Gaffney (Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill) (Lab)]

Does the hon. Lady agree that if people cannot buy council housing, they need to get social housing? Let us give our young people a chance to have a start in life with a new house. Let us start building social housing and creating jobs.

[Kirsty Blackman]

Of the homes that the Scottish Government are building, 35,000 are for social rent. The reality is that the Scottish Government have put in place a huge number of schemes to allow first-time buyers to get into the housing market, including joint purchase schemes, whereby people go into joint purchases with the Scottish Government. These measures have been incredibly successful in ensuring that people can get a foot on the housing ladder.

At Westminster, politics gets bleaker by the day. As the Tories hark back to the 19th century, our Scottish Government are pressing on with a forward-looking, 21st century agenda to boost innovation and the economy’s productive base. The Scottish Government have set aside resources of £340 million to provide initial capitalisation for the Scottish Investment Bank. Our Scottish Government do not have power over all the levers to generate economic growth, but we are doing what we can to ensure that our economy can keep pace.

In Scotland, 70% of taxpayers are paying less in income tax this year, assuming that their income has not changed. Some 50% of taxpayers in England—those who earn the least—are paying more income tax than they would if they were in Scotland. Despite all the cuts from Westminster—[Interruption.] I am being queried on this, but these are Library figures—I can send them on to the hon. Member for Stirling (Stephen Kerr) if he is interested in seeing them. Despite all the cuts from Westminster, Scotland is the fairest-taxed part of the UK.

I want to touch briefly on oil and gas; as an Aberdeen MP, most people would expect me to do so. We welcome the UK Government’s move on transferable tax history. We pushed for that for a very long time—I have been raising it for about two years in this place—but it is coming along too slowly. The more quickly the transferable tax history changes can happen in relation to oil and gas, the better. I understand that they are intended to be in place in November this year. I very much urge the Government not to extend that deadline further back, because the quicker this can happen, the better. The changes ensure that new investment can be made in late-life assets in the North sea. It is really important that we ensure that this comes forward.

On investment in the North sea, I would very much like the UK Government to ensure that they are fully behind the Oil and Gas Authority’s “Vision 2035”. This is absolutely vital not just for the north-east of Scotland but, more widely, for any companies that are involved in oil and gas and for all the jobs that are supported by that. To be fair to Scottish Conservative Members, they have been very supportive of “Vision 2035” as well, but the more people who talk about it in this place and outside it, the better. We need to be talking about anchoring our supply chain in the north-east of Scotland and throughout the rest of the UK far into the future, so that even once there is no oil and gas left in the North sea, we continue to have that world-class, recognised supply chain and can continue to generate the tax revenues from it.

It would not be a debate in this Parliament if I did not raise Brexit. The threat of leaving the customs union and the single market is undoubtedly the biggest threat to Scotland’s economy, and so to the Scottish Government’s spending power. For the period 2014-20, Scotland received €476 million in European regional development fund money and €465 million in European social fund money. There has been no commitment from the UK Government that they will plug this gap in spending in Scotland after Brexit. In 2016, the EU common agricultural policy supported payments of £490 million in Scotland. Will the Government guarantee this money beyond 2022? Our farmers need to plan long term about how best to manage their land, and they need clear guarantees.

The convergence uplift moneys of €220 million—as I said, this was mentioned this morning—were supposed to go to people like Scottish hill farmers who are receiving the lowest levels of support in the EU. Unfortunately, because of the way that the UK Government decided to distribute the money, instead of more than 80% coming to Scotland, only 16% came to Scotland. I am very clear that that money should have come to our farmers in Scotland, yet it did not.

Scottish Economy

Hugh Gaffney Excerpts

Wednesday 27th June 2018 Westminster Hall

[Hugh Gaffney (Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Main. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Rutherglen and Hamilton West (Ged Killen) on securing this debate.

After a decade of the Scottish National party and eight years of a Conservative Government, what will the future of Scotland’s economy be? Where are the jobs, the finance and the security for our next generation of young workers as we enter the uncharted waters of life outside the European Union? After a recent trip to Brussels, we were told that Brexit is over. In Europe, we have already left—only the paperwork has to be filled in. Deal or no deal, we are out of the European market.

Section 11 of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 should have been fixed in time for Scotland’s voice to be heard, but without the SNP’s approval, and with a Tory party that could not make amends or recommendations, the buck was passed to the House of Lords. The SNP could only huff and puff and walk out of the House for five minutes as it was blowing down, with their instructions to walk out following behind them.

I sympathise with the Scottish Government, who, like us, waited on our amendments to section 11. For the Tories to fail to deliver on the will of the Scottish people puts our devolution settlement at risk, with fewer powers and a breakdown between the two Governments.

What will the future of the economy be when we have low wages, fewer working hours, temporary jobs, agency work and, of course—the way to get unemployment figures down—zero-hours contracts? What chance do our Scottish youth have of building a future, securing housing, raising a family or providing for themselves before caring for others? It really is a game of survival. In 2018, it is sad that the only growth and development in Scotland is in food banks.

[Mrs Anne Main (in the Chair)]

Before I call the SNP spokesperson, Alison Thewliss, I ask her to try to confine her remarks to eight minutes.

Banking Misconduct and the FCA

Hugh Gaffney Excerpts

Thursday 10th May 2018 Commons Chamber

[Hugh Gaffney (Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill) (Lab)]

I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for East Lothian (Martin Whitfield) for his important and impressive speech earlier and for calling this debate.

I do not want to speak for long, but I do want to say a few words about the importance of restoring faith and trust in our financial institutions. Recent weeks have brought bad news of further bank closures in Scotland and across the United Kingdom by RBS. Three of the targeted branches are in my constituency, in Stepps, Tannochside and Bellshill. We are continually told that branches are being closed because more people are banking online, but what about the disabled, the elderly and others who want to open a new account? I accept that many people bank differently these days, but I take issue with the speed at which change is being forced through and the damage it is doing to communities along the way.

I ask RBS, if it is watching, to think again. Its closure programme is affecting the worst-off and most vulnerable people in my community and many others, as we have heard today, but RBS will never understand the frustration that customers across Scotland and the United Kingdom feel at these bank closures. Stepps will be a town with no bank at all. That is unacceptable and speaks to the financial isolation and exclusion that can be triggered when these decisions are taken.

I mention all that because our small and medium-sized businesses are going to think twice before seeking to borrow from these financial institutions, and we cannot blame them—not when these banks are prioritising themselves and their profits over the communities they should be serving. They are putting profit before people. I often travel around Scotland and the United Kingdom, and I recently joined the campaign trail around London, and on every high street I see the same thing: “for sale” signs; boarded-up shops; graffiti; small businesses, once a proud part of our communities, closed down, and not because of their own endeavours but because the banking sector did not serve their interests.

This situation worries me hugely, especially as we are about to leave the EU. I campaigned proudly to remain in 2016, and I welcome Labour’s policy on the customs union and those in the Conservative party who might support it. The economic implications for small businesses across Britain of our leaving the EU will be huge, however, and I do not believe we have even started to understand what we need to do to keep them alive and protected from the coming economic shock. I call on the Minister to be loud and proud in getting a better deal for all our constituents and to call a public inquiry so that we can hold the banks to account.

Banking in North Ayrshire

Hugh Gaffney Excerpts

Wednesday 14th March 2018 Commons Chamber

[Patricia Gibson]

My hon. and learned Friend leads me smoothly to my next point, although of course we are not just concerned about rural areas—Kilwinning could hardly be called a rural area, by any stretch of the imagination. Her point about the effect on small businesses is extremely important, because we all know that small businesses, which are the backbone of our communities—the lifeblood of our communities, keeping the heart of our high streets beating—work in an extremely challenging retail climate. If local businesses cannot bank their takings at the end of the business day, they incur additional insurance costs. They can either take their cash home with them at the end of the business day—because if the bank goes, there is no night safe—or they drive to the next town to bank their takings. Either way, their insurance costs go up. With businesses already struggling on the edge of survival, that could well be enough to tip several of them over the edge. For that reason, the support of banks in our towns often proves critical for small businesses. Let us not forget that, regardless of their political views, everyone in this Chamber understands the importance of small businesses to keeping our high streets alive.

[Hugh Gaffney (Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill) (Lab)]

I welcome this Adjournment debate because three banks are shutting down in my constituency in Chryston, Bellshill and Tannochside. Tannochside has one local bank, built by the community. When those banks opened, it was local workers who built them, and the hon. Lady is spot on about local businesses. The staff of small businesses usually have to take large sums of money, and if the alternative is to go to the post office, post offices are not equipped to take them. This is a very good subject for debate and I thank the hon. Lady for introducing it.

[Patricia Gibson]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that intervention. I now need to make some progress, because I know that the Minister is keen to respond.

As for those living in the towns affected by the closures, Kilbirnie customers have been advised that the nearest RBS following the closure of their branch is in Largs, a round trip of 18.8 miles; Saltcoats customers have been directed to Irvine, a round trip of 12.8 miles; and Kilwinning customers have also been directed to Irvine, a round trip of 6.8 miles.  That is simply not good enough when one considers that many of those customers do not have access to private transport.  They will be at the mercy of local public transport in all weathers. So the elderly and infirm will be left to fend for themselves as financial and social exclusion—that is what we are talking about—bites in their towns.  The bank closures will mean that the affected communities no longer have access to day-to-day essential banking services. We have heard about the problems of mobile banks. They are not a solution to the problem of the closure of the last bank in town. They are a poor substitute and the people of Kilwinning, Saltcoats and Kilbirnie expect and deserve better.

Banks have shown, and are showing increasingly, that they have no sense of service to our communities. Tonight, I call on the Minister to establish and enforce a guaranteed minimum level of service provision for essential banking services, recognising the importance of continued access to banking for our communities.  Surely, it is now time, given that banks are riding roughshod over our communities with no sense of service or responsibility, for a guaranteed minimum level of service provision for essential banking services to be put in place.

I know that the Prime Minister has said repeatedly that branch closures are operational matters for the banks, but that is not good enough. RBS is still almost 73% owned by the taxpayer, so this is a bitter pill to swallow.  In addition, the UK Government retain all legislative and regulatory powers in respect of financial services, so the UK Government have the authority to call a halt to this devastating round of closures while banks, stakeholders and the UK and Scottish Governments consider how best to take account of the obligation to banking customers and our communities.  Whatever the banks may say, they have an obligation to our communities—a service obligation, a financial obligation and a moral obligation.

The UK Government argue that these are “operational decisions” for banks, but there is a precedent, as the Minister knows, and George Osborne, the former Chancellor, let the cat out of the bag. He confirmed that during his time as Chancellor his consent was sought by RBS about the departure of the former chief executive officer, Stephen Hester.  The UK Government could right now reject any RBS branch closures unless and until impact assessments have been carried out, and should require RBS to ensure that practical and sustainable alternative banking services are put in place before any closures are signed off.

It really is time to call on RBS management to reverse these planned closures.  The Minister tonight has a responsibility to demonstrate that the UK Government are standing up for our communities on this most important issue. The SNP Westminster leader, my right hon. Friend the Member for Ross, Skye and Lochaber (Ian Blackford), has persuaded RBS to reprieve 10 branches across Scotland until impact assessments have been carried out.  I wish those communities well, but it does nothing to soften the hammer blow for the towns in my constituency that face losing their banks and for Kilwinning in particular which will lose its last bank branch.  In the past, the Minister has suggested that customers who are not happy can move their accounts to another bank.  What does he suggest that the people of Kilwinning do, when there is no bank for them to move to within a reasonable distance?

Of course customers are also advised to move their accounts to the post office.  Well, 10 years ago I recall collecting petition signatures to save post offices in my constituency when swathes of them were being closed down in my constituency under a previous Government. Post offices bolted on to the back of the local Spar simply do not provide the range of services or privacy that customers need and deserve.

I appeal in good faith to the Minister to ensure that these closures are halted—that RBS is ordered to halt these closures and carry out full impact assessments on the communities affected. All the communities affected want nothing less, and the people in the towns of Kilwinning, Kilbirnie and Saltcoats deserve nothing less.  Is the Minister going to stand with RBS management, or is he going to stand with the communities affected and the communities of Kilwinning, Kilbirnie and Saltcoats in particular?  I urge him to do the right thing and stand up for our communities.

Banks and Communities

Hugh Gaffney Excerpts

Thursday 11th January 2018 Westminster Hall

[Hugh Gaffney (Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your leadership, Mr Gapes. I am also grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for East Lothian (Martin Whitfield).

I will say a few words in this important debate. I have shared my concerns with many colleagues, who have highlighted their grave concerns today about the proposed RBS branch closures. That is particularly important to me because three RBS branches in my constituency have been identified for closure: one in Chryston, one in Bellshill and one in Tannochside—my own bank. I wrote to Ross McEwan on 12 December on behalf of my constituents and I am still awaiting a reply. I urge other colleagues to do the same. I would also like to place on record my support for the approach taken by Unite the union, which has pledged to work not only to save jobs but to save the constituents who depend on those banks. That is an approach that I support 100%.

I know that time is brief, so I will say a few words about high streets. Communities and high streets up and down our country are at breaking point. We have seen small independent shops closing due to the rise in rates. As my hon. Friend the Member for East Lothian has noted, we have seen Royal Mail privatised and post offices up and down the United Kingdom closed, and now we have RBS doing the exact same thing in Scotland. As a member of the Communication Workers Union and someone who has travelled up and down the UK fighting post office closures, I find it an absolute disgrace that the banks are now trying to use the post office as an excuse on availability when post offices have been closed and closed. My CWU members would have loved that bankers’ bailout money—it being Scotland, I should repeat that: I did say “bankers”.

The closures are a recipe for disaster and show little respect for many of our constituents, who do not have access to a computer at home and do not have internet banking. They show little respect for the people who need a bank for their affairs, especially the small businesses I met in Chryston that are concerned about their local bank shutting. It is the only bank in town, and the local shops do not know where to go or how safe the staff will be putting money away for banks and the rest of it. For those who live in rural communities as we do, banks are so important to the high street.

After eight years of Tory austerity and the same from the SNP in Holyrood, many of my constituents are living by their pay packet, week to week. If these banks shut, all we are going to see is an improvement in ATMs, which will replace the banks. With austerity and the cuts just now, my constituents live by their money week to week. They will go to the bank and be charged £2 to lift £10. That is not on, and that is what I am fighting against for my constituents.

It has been noted that 1,000 banks have shut. That means more job losses. I am a member of the Scottish Affairs Committee, and we have invited RBS representatives down next week. I will be taking these issues forward with them. I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for East Lothian and thank you, Mr Gapes, for your time.

Public Sector Pay

Hugh Gaffney Excerpts

Monday 4th December 2017 Westminster Hall

[Laura Pidcock (North West Durham) (Lab)]

I proudly declare my membership of Unite and I want to say well done to all the people who signed the petition to allow us to have this debate. I want the Minister to tell us two things. First, since pay rose by just 4.4% between 2010 and 2016 yet the cost of living rose by 22%, do the Government accept that they have in reality inflicted a real-terms pay cut on public sector workers? I say “real terms” because those are the only terms that matter to people outside the Westminster bubble. Secondly, can the Government really say that they value our public sector workers, who keep our services going day in, day out, when they first froze their pay and then capped it?

I ask those questions because it seems very difficult to get the Government even to acknowledge the problem. They are fond of saying that there have been pay increases, and we recently heard the Chancellor say that public sector workers are overpaid. Public sector workers across the board are unbelievably committed to their jobs—it is not all about pay. They are so committed to their work that they have worked £11 billion-worth of unpaid hours. Officially recognising them for the work that they have done would require a 24% increase in their pay.

Leaving aside the hundreds of unpaid hours of work, this is about a basic principle of work and pay. It is not right in principle that workers in North West Durham, for example, are worse off year on year despite doing absolutely nothing wrong. They are not directly responsible for inflation or prices; their living standards improve or degrade at the Government’s behest. If the Government are intent on keeping pay increases behind inflation, they ultimately have to accept that they are comfortable with making people poorer. I really wish that the Government would just admit that they are comfortable with that.

Fifteen unions, representing millions of workers, are asking for an end to the pay cap. Over the summer, thousands and thousands of workers took to the streets to protest about the pay freeze. I wonder whether any Government Members understand what forces workers out on to the streets or to withdraw their labour. That is always a last resort. It is a symbol of the hardship that these people are experiencing and of their anger—it is not about militancy.

[Hugh Gaffney (Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill) (Lab)]

GS day is coming. My hon. Friend just touched on it. Public sector workers have had enough. Working men and women in all sectors, both public and private, have had enough. The race to the bottom has to stop. How much longer do the Government expect workers to wait? Workers should keep pushing: breaking point is coming. I urge all workers to join a trade union, get themselves a voice and become part of a movement—a movement for change and a voice for change. GS day is coming and I urge all general secretaries to get involved.

[Laura Pidcock]

I could not agree more with my hon. Friend. Joining a trade union is the only way that workers will improve their terms and conditions under this Government.

The inequality between this place and the rest of the public services has been mentioned. How can it be right that Members awarded themselves a 10% pay rise in 2015 while most public sector workers’ pay was capped at 1%? People really feel that there is one rule for us in this place and another for all the rest. I genuinely do not think that Government Members can claim that they support or value our public services while they suppress workers’ wages. Pay is inextricably linked to morale, productivity and efficiency. Every single public sector worker I have met has said that they are under more pressure now than ever before, at the same time as their pay is at an all-time low. In fact, if we continue on this trajectory, there will have been the biggest average contraction in real-terms earnings since 1851. Are the Government proud of that happening on their watch?

Devolved Powers in Scotland

Hugh Gaffney Excerpts

Tuesday 17th October 2017 Westminster Hall

[Hugh Gaffney (Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill) (Lab)]

I thank my comrade the hon. Member for Stirling (Stephen Kerr) for calling this debate. I will be as brief as possible. I want to talk about where Scotland is today and about our future. Most importantly, I want to talk about how we can use our significant powers to make the lives of the people of Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill and all those across Scotland better, healthier and happier.

My commitment to the Union of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland is not a secret. I proudly campaigned for a no vote across Scotland during the referendum because I believed that the powers in the Scottish Parliament were sufficient to ensure that Scotland and her people were adequately and effectively represented and served while still being part of the United Kingdom. Our issue is about the use of the powers. Some people in Scotland, many of them on the Conservative side, say that Holyrood has too many powers. Those in the SNP, who have been in government for more than 10 years, say there are not enough. To both sides, I say, “Rubbish.” We have enough powers to do it, so please let us start focusing on the issues that affect our young people in their schools, on our hospital wards that are at breaking point, and on our transport system that needs investment and focus.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Hugh Gaffney]

I apologise for not giving way; I have only got two minutes.

We have the powers to change and improve the lives of people in Scotland. The current Government in Scotland are a one-trick pony and do not seem to want to focus on the issues facing my constituents. If there is no appetite to use the powers, then we look forward to Scotland electing a Labour Government that will use the powers—a Labour Government that will empower, enrich and serve our people. Scotland will use the powers—

[Mr Philip Hollobone (in the Chair)]

Order.

Finance Bill

Hugh Gaffney Excerpts

Tuesday 12th September 2017 Commons Chamber

[John Redwood]

That is quite right. And they will all contribute to our tax revenues and not to the French tax revenues in the process, which means the French state has an even more difficult task.

There was one particularly important thing in the shadow Minister’s speech. He correctly agreed with the Government that we need to raise productivity. He would not take my intervention, in which I wanted to raise one of the sadnesses in the long period of Labour Government from 1997 to 2010. The Labour Government had so much money to spend because they inherited a prosperous economy. In fact, they extended that prosperity in the first part of their government before they went for the crash in the end. However, although they had quite a lot of money to spend, there was no growth whatever in public sector productivity over those 13 years.

In this House, we all say we want to raise productivity. Surely we should take a special responsibility for public sector productivity because that is the sector in which we directly spend the money, employ the people, hire the managers, and set the aims and objectives. As the Labour party is particularly close to the public sector in many ways, it would be good if it shared with us some thinking on having a policy that really does promote higher-quality and better-paid jobs in the public sector. If we have a more productive workforce, we can pay them better and create better conditions. That is what we all want to do.

[Hugh Gaffney (Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill) (Lab)]

If we want to improve productivity, why do we not stop the Department for Work and Pensions closures and keep the people who will chase the tax dodgers? Those are the people we want. If we want to improve productivity, we need to keep the jobs, stop the centralisation programme and keep the DWP jobs going.

[John Redwood]

The idea is to provide a better-quality service, applying modern technology and techniques to serve those who need the scheme. I am sure that the Minister will be interested in any detailed criticisms the hon. Gentleman may have. This Government have spent a lot of our public money on dealing with abuse on the tax side, because they rightly believe that we should be fair, crack down on tax abuse and ensure that people do not cheat the welfare system. Neither is a good thing to do. If we want a sensible financial balance, we should surely be fair to both sides by ensuring that we are not cheated out of public money and that we are not short-changed by people who break the law on tax.