Sexual Harassment and Violence in Schools

Debate between Helen Goodman and Maria Miller

Thursday 2nd November 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Maria Miller (Basingstoke) (Con)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the Third Report of the Women and Equalities Committee, Session 2016-17, on Sexual harassment and sexual violence in schools, HC 91; recognises that peer-on-peer sexual abuse is a significant issue affecting a large number of children and young people in schools, particularly girls; notes that the Committee found that data collection on instances of such abuse is inadequate and that too often schools fail to recognise, record and report sexual harassment and sexual violence; and calls on the Government to ensure that revised, specific guidance for schools on preventing and responding to sexual harassment and sexual violence is put in place before the end of the current academic year.

I thank the Backbench Business Committee for its support in holding this debate and pay tribute to members of the Women and Equalities Committee, and our incredible team of Clerks and special advisers who work so diligently in support of everything that we do to make such inquiries possible. I am speaking today along with the hon. Member for Birmingham, Yardley (Jess Phillips), who is also a member of the Committee. We are delighted to have this opportunity to look in more detail at the report that we produced well over a year ago.

There could never be a more timely debate. Parliament might not be a typical workplace, but we have a clear duty to tackle sexual harassment and sexual abuse, to have the right support so that victims can come forward without fear, and to act swiftly on the evidence that is presented. If Parliament cannot get it right, what example are we setting the rest of the country? There has been a wide range of allegations—some with evidence and some without—but the country will be watching how we handle them. We need to get it right, and blaming the victims or those who speak out is never right. Sexual harassment was never acceptable, but with record numbers of women in work and record numbers of women in this place—although still not enough—it is becoming more possible for voices to be heard. It is right that changes are made quickly to put in place the support systems that are currently lacking, and it is right that changes could well have been made within days. So why on earth do we find it so difficult to get the same swift action to protect children in our schools when the evidence is so clear, strong and compelling?

Sexual harassment and abuse are not only workplace problems. The scale of the problem among children in schools was set out by the Committee well over a year ago. Two in three girls under the age of 21 have experienced sexual harassment according to the Girlguiding “Girls’ Attitudes Survey”. In our evidence sessions, colleagues heard about children grabbing breasts, pinging bras, lifting skirts and bottom pinching—all those things are a routine part of daily life for schoolgirls in this country today. In 2015, a BBC freedom of information request that was sent to all UK police forces found that more than 5,500 alleged sex crimes, 4,000 sexual assaults and 600 rapes had been reported in UK schools in the previous three years, with at least one in five offences being conducted by children on children.

The new evidence that really triggered the Committee’s desire to call for another debate today was collected by “Panorama” from 38 police forces. Its work in October showed a 71% increase in peer-on-peer abuse in schools over the last three years. More than 7,800 cases were reported in 2016 alone, and the police tell us that that is just the tip of the iceberg. A 2013 joint inspectorate study of young sex offenders found evidence in half of cases of previous worrying sexualised behaviour that was not identified at the time, or that was disbelieved or minimised by professionals and families. In going unnoticed, the problem is doing yet more harm, and the harm does not stop at the school gates. The evidence suggests that the levels of sexual harassment that we see in schools continues through to universities and then into the workplace. More than two thirds of female students report being victims of sexual harassment at university. The most recent data on sexual harassment in the workplace comes from BBC Radio 5 Live through a ComRes poll, in which more than half of women said they had experienced sexual harassment at work or in school.

Why am I having to stand here using data from the BBC, “Panorama” and FOI requests? Why are we not collecting such data routinely so that Members of Parliament can hold the Government to account? Governments of every hue have decided not to collect the data, and that needs to change.

When we look at the data, which is very difficult to get hold of, we find that three quarters of reports that are made to the police about children abusing other children at school lead to no further action at all. Children tell us that sexual assaults and harassment are written off by some teaching staff as just banter, despite the safeguarding responsibilities that are already in place. Just as sexual harassment and assault are not acceptable in this place, they should not be acceptable in schools, universities and colleges around the country.

We are holding this debate to check what progress the Government are making in responding to the Select Committee report, which is well over a year old. In the light of new evidence from Girlguiding and “Panorama”, we can see that the situation is certainly no better.

I want to take this opportunity to examine something that we did not touch on a great deal in the report, although it was referred to by parents. Sexual harassment is not new in the workplace and it is certainly not new in schools, as many hon. Members will recognise from their own school days, but what has changed is the fact that most children in this country now have tablets and smartphones at a very early age. Extreme pornography websites, social media and digital communications are all readily accessible to anybody with a tablet or smartphone. We have given our children access to the world through that technology, but without the rules and regulations that they see in almost every other aspect of their daily life. We have allowed the exponential growth of the ownership of these devices without asking any questions at all.

Perhaps we should not be surprised that Ofcom research shows that many people who look for a fact on Google think that only facts on Google can be true. They cannot believe that any data on there would not be completely accurate. That is what we are dealing with. Half of three-year-olds and 75% of 11-year-olds use a tablet. That is Ofcom’s data, not mine.

We could pick on any number of areas of criminal activity that come out of that high level of connectivity. We could talk about online peer-on-peer abuse among children, cyber-stalking, the posting of child abuse images or sexting, but let us stick with one area: extreme pornography. Again, we know the facts. Two in three 15-year-olds have seen online pornography. One in four 10-year-olds has seen online pornography. For those children, that is often the way they find out what a loving relationship looks like.

As well us updating the House on the work that is being done in response to the Select Committee report, will the Minister, who I know takes an extremely deep interest in these matters and is committed, like the Committee, to finding solutions, update us on what measures the Government are taking to tackle the role of online media in fuelling the sort of sexual harassment and sexually abusive behaviour that is becoming so prevalent in our schools?

Parents have told us that they understand their responsibility in this area, but they expect their children to be kept safe when they are at school. Parents have contacted the Committee about this, and I have spoken to two parents this week who have endured particularly harrowing difficulties. For obvious reasons, I will not use their names and I will anonymise their contributions, but I felt that the House should be aware of the very real damage this sexually abusive behaviour is having on our children today. Mrs X told me about the rape of her six-year-old daughter at school by a male classmate, which was simply dismissed by teachers as “playful activity”. There was no central recording of these incidents because of the age of the other child—under the age of criminal responsibility—and certainly no support for the victim as a result. Mrs X would like school guidance that specifically states that children, no matter how young they are, should be protected in the same way as we might protect an adult who had been through a rape or sexual assault, as her daughter had, and that victims should never face the prospect of having to go to school again with those who have abused or even raped them. That would require the Government to act to ensure that primary and secondary schools adhere to that in their school placements.

The daughter of the second parent I spoke to was also raped at school. That parent described how girls as young as 12 encouraged each other to sext their peer group—that means they would be sending sexual images of themselves by mobile phone, which is a criminal offence. He also described how they were encouraged to have anal sex by their classmates. What was his observation as a father? He said:

“they have no idea they are experiencing sexual abuse…if their first frame of reference is viewing extreme pornography then spanking and being given a dog collar to wear around their neck isn’t to them out of the norm”.

So why do schools find this so difficult to deal with? Some are reporting the crimes, but some, particularly primary schools, are dealing with an area they never have before. Is the law clear? Do teachers understand their responsibilities? Sexual harassment is defined in law in the Equality Act 2010, but how many teachers have been asked to look at that, given that it talks about adults and adult workplaces?

Our Select Committee report advocated a whole-school approach to creating a culture of respect and responsibility; that all incidents should be recorded and reported, and that they should be looked at in detail by Ofsted; that sex and relationships education should be compulsory for all school-age children; and that the guidance given to schools should be urgently updated.

Parents need to be aware of the consequences of putting their children online, and we should be considering age restrictions on tablets and smartphones. After all, it is not that long ago that we thought smoking did not cause us harm, but now we know a lot better. I applaud the Government’s work on restricting underage people’s access to pornography sites and encouraging parental blocks, but we know that as fast as the Government implement their plans, a way around them will be found. “Unblock in school” advertises to children a product called X-VPN, which allows access to blocked sites when at school, so it has got around that problem already. Multinational corporations generating significant profits in the UK are causing harm to our children, so why are we not already putting in place levies so that they pay for the harm they are creating?

[Helen Goodman (Bishop Auckland) (Lab)]

Good point!

[Mrs Miller]

Thank you.

I applaud the Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport for putting forward a Green Paper on ways in which this situation might be improved, but I fear that these suggestions are long overdue. We need solutions, and they need to be designed into the products that we give to our children, not retrofitted as an afterthought.

What has happened so far? The Government’s response to our report was very positive. We are pleased that it is now in law that children have to be given compulsory SRE, but what has actually changed in our schools? Nothing. To revise the guidance, the Government have set up an advisory group, but it has met only twice—why is there not more urgency?

Since our most recent evidence session with him, my right hon. Friend the Minister for Equalities has confirmed to me in writing that 124 schools have been judged to have ineffective safeguarding measures and are therefore inadequate. However, we still do not know how many schools are rated so poorly because of how they deal with sexual harassment.

Although sex and relationships education is now compulsory in law, we are told that even when the statutory guidance is issued—we are still awaiting a consultation on that—it will take a full academic year to come into force. How come we can act here in Parliament in a matter of days, yet it takes a full year to put in place safeguards for our children? The House needs to know how many legal cases the Department for Education is dealing with that relate to children who have been sexually harassed or abused, or worse, while still at school.

One year on, very little has changed for children in our schools, other than that they now perhaps feel more confident about speaking out and not being ridiculed. Schools already have clear responsibilities to keep our children safe, but those 7,866 reported cases of abuse in 2016 suggest that the way in which schools are handling this problem does not work. If we can change things here in a matter of days, why can we not do the same thing for children? If we tackle sexual harassment and abuse early on, teach children about healthy relationships and respect, and properly regulate social media and digital communications, we may be able to start to tackle the root causes of the sort of sexual harassment that we see is so prevalent in wider society today. I look forward to hearing the Minister’s response.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Helen Goodman and Maria Miller

Thursday 30th January 2014 Commons Chamber

[Maria Miller]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right that we have to keep up the pressure to ensure that we have superfast broadband where it is needed for all the different groups that can benefit. Either I or the Under-Secretary of State, my hon. Friend the Member for Wantage (Mr Vaizey), would be delighted to meet her and her constituents, because we want to ensure, working with those providing this vital infrastructure service, that it is getting to the right people in a speedy manner.

[Helen Goodman (Bishop Auckland) (Lab)]

The Secretary of State knows that 5 million people in rural areas still do not have broadband connection. Really, she must admit that the £10 million is just a stop—a sop, I mean—to divert attention from the devastating Public Accounts Committee report. Can she guarantee that the £250 million she mentioned will not all go to one provider, and can she explain how it is good value for money to pay £52 for a connection in a rural area but £3,000 for a connection in a super-connected city?

[Maria Miller]

I am not sure that the shadow Minister had a total grasp of her question. Perhaps she needs to catch up with some of her councillors on the ground who have a better grasp than she does. I am particularly thinking of County Councillor Sean Serridge, a champion for digital inclusion in Lancashire—one of her councillors, I think—who has said that the work we are doing in his area

“is a great achievement and shows that we are well on the way to achieving our goal of providing 97 per cent of the county with superfast broadband by the end of next year.”

The difference between the hon. Lady and me is that we are getting on with it, while she is just still talking about it.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Helen Goodman and Maria Miller

Thursday 31st October 2013 Commons Chamber

[Helen Goodman (Bishop Auckland) (Lab)]

Will Ministers join me in congratulating the National Theatre on 50 years at the very heart of our cultural and artistic life? It is a great reminder of the sheer quality of the excellence of our national arts institutions, many of which are based in the capital. Outside London, however, the picture is now very different. I pay tribute to those who have produced a report today showing the massive disparity in Government and lottery support for the arts. What the Under-Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport, the hon. Member for Maidstone and The Weald (Mrs Grant) said earlier is wholly wrong: whereas Londoners get £70 per head each year the rest of the country gets only £4.60 per head. So what are the Government going to do to rebalance our cultural economy?

[Maria Miller]

The hon. Lady raises a point that we are trying to address, after her Administration did so little to address it. We are trying to make sure that our great national institutions do work regionally and to throw a spotlight on the excellent work they do. Only a month ago, I was at an exhibition in my constituency that had been put on by the Victoria and Albert museum. We should be applauding the work that our national institutions are doing in the regions.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Helen Goodman and Maria Miller

Thursday 5th September 2013 Commons Chamber

[Maria Miller]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right that we need to ensure that we tackle such problems, whether they involve bullying online or inciting people to take their own lives. We are working directly with ISPs and with those who have websites to ensure that there is more moderation and that there are opportunities to turn off anonymous postings. Those are the practical measures that can be put in place to help people have safer access to the internet.

[Helen Goodman (Bishop Auckland) (Lab)]

Since we last met, we have seen the National Audit Office’s devastating report on the Government’s failure on broadband, which is extremely important to many people, but I am not going to ask the Government about that—[Laughter.] No, I am not, because also since we last met two children have taken their own lives following cyber-bullying; that is also a matter of extreme concern to people in this country. I have arranged to see the Latvian ambassador to discuss whether ask.fm is co-operating properly with the police. The Government did not even mention social media in their summit conclusions or their communications paper. Why does the Secretary of State not put a legal obligation on social media sites to tackle cyber-bullying?

[Maria Miller]

The hon. Lady needs to be very careful with what she is talking about. We are absolutely taking action on cyber-bullying. There is already guidance in place to help schools and to help children understand cyber-bullying more effectively. It is clear not just from what I am saying but from what the Prime Minister has said that it is absolutely unacceptable to have such abuse online. I am pleased to say that ask.fm has taken the problem very seriously and put in place more robust reporting mechanisms, increased moderation on the site, and given people the opportunity to turn off anonymous postings. Those are the sort of practical changes that can make websites safer for young people to use, but ultimately we must ensure that parents work with their children, too.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Helen Goodman and Maria Miller

Thursday 20th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Maria Miller]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We must ensure that when we have access to superfast broadband in local areas, businesses understand its value, and that is why we have always said that this is not only about investing in the roll-out of this infrastructure, but about ensuring that businesses understand how it can help them.

[Helen Goodman (Bishop Auckland) (Lab)]

Last week, I attended the launch of Digital Teesdale. Will the Secretary of State join me in congratulating Labour Durham county council and the voluntary group Barnard Castle Vision, which are the partners that have delivered it, and will she say why she is signing contracts for delivery in 2016, when her target is for delivery in 2015?

[Maria Miller]

I thank the hon. Lady for raising such an important project as the one in Durham. It is such projects that can make a real difference, filling in the gaps of the national programme. On the delivery of the programmes, we are pushing hard to get roll-out as quickly as possible, and she will of course know that a considerable number of local authorities have already opened their first boxes. That progress will continue apace. As I said earlier, 70% of the funding allocations have already been signed off.

Crime and Courts Bill [Lords]

Debate between Helen Goodman and Maria Miller

Monday 22nd April 2013 Commons Chamber

[Maria Miller]

It will be full-time employees who are included in the employment measure, which is why it is important that not just employment but turnover is considered. Many organisations utilise a number of self-employed people, hence the twin-track approach.

We have set out what we anticipate being considered a blog, which is about individual opinion being set forth through electronic media. That is relatively straightforward, although as I said to my right hon. Friend the Member for Wokingham (Mr Redwood), there will always be more difficult matters to consider at the margins and the courts will be able to provide further information. We will also provide guidance in the usual way.

The amendments address concerns raised by small-scale bloggers and other small businesses and will ensure that the definition of “relevant publisher” captures the news publishers that were the focus of Lord Justice Leveson’s inquiry. They have the full support of all three major parties in the House, and on that basis I commend them to the House.

[Helen Goodman (Bishop Auckland) (Lab)]

I am pleased to be able to take part in this debate, which nails down the final details of the recommendations that Lord Justice Leveson made about setting up a new self-regulatory system for the press. When the Bill was introduced into the House a year ago, Lord Justice Leveson had not even reported, so we were fortunate to be able to thumb a lift with the Bill.

On 18 March, on Third Reading, the House agreed to insert new clauses providing for new rules on exemplary damages and costs. They are an essential part of the cross-party agreement on a royal charter, which is part of the new framework of independent self-regulation guaranteed by law.

As the Secretary of State said, the Bill aims to provide publishers with incentives to sign up to the new system of self-regulation that should meet the criteria set out in the royal charter. Publishers that join the recognised regulator will receive protection from the award of exemplary damages in media disputes, the opportunity to use an arbitration service, and cost benefits from having access to the arbitration service—that is one reason why it would benefit local as well as national newspapers. If a complainant chooses not to use the arbitration service, they can still be liable for costs even if they win.

Lord Justice Leveson’s report was about the press, but the original drafting had the unintended effect of catching blogs in the net—a point noted in this House by my hon. Friend the indefatigable Member for West Bromwich East (Mr Watson). That said, Lord Justice Leveson expressed the hope in recommendation 73 of his report that online publishers would also join a regulator. The Bill therefore needed to be amended to ensure that exemplary damages did not apply to blogs, but that they could receive the benefits of joining a recognised regulator. The Lords agreed a number of amendments, including a placeholder amendment, on 25 March.

The Government’s decision to hold a “mini-consultation”—as I think the Secretary of State called it—to pause for reflection and consider the blogosphere was sensible. With the best will in the world, middle-aged Members of Parliament in both Houses are perhaps not absolutely up to speed with the way in which the blogosphere operates among the next generation, but I think we have now got it right. The Labour party agrees with the policy objectives that the Government are seeking to address: to exempt micro-businesses from the definition of “relevant publisher” where they are a blog or their publications are merely incidental to their other business; and to enable such micro-businesses to receive the benefits and cost incentives if they join a recognised regulator. The amendments use the micro-business definition for a small blog as one whose turnover is below £2 million and has up to 10 employees. It exempts such businesses from exemplary damages and enables them to benefit from the cost advantages of an arbitration service if they join a regulator—that last point will be particularly welcome in that community.

Labour supports Lords amendments 17A and 17B and amendments (a) and (b) in lieu of amendment 131, and we will not divide the House in this debate. However, there is a thicket of double negatives, and for those outside the House who are following proceedings closely I ask the Secretary of State to provide assurances and clarity on a couple of points. Will she tell the House whether this approach minimises the risk of gaming, in particular by groups of companies? What is the position of campaigning groups’ newsletters—the right hon. Member for Wokingham (Mr Redwood) raised that point? I thought that Mumsnet would be excluded because its primary purpose is not to publish news—it is clear that motherhood is not a hobby, so it is not excluded on those grounds—or, indeed, UK Feminista. Neither of those is a charity and it might help if the Secretary of State said a little more about the newsletters of campaigning groups.

Will she confirm that access to the arbitration system for those outside the regulatory body is limited to small-scale blogs, and say why she chose that approach? The hon. Member for Cambridge (Dr Huppert) asked about the definition of “blog”, and I assume that the Secretary of State has received legal advice that the word will be properly interpreted. She has already explained why she is addressing only the number of employees, and not those who are self-employed, but if she could elucidate a little on those points it would be helpful and we will be happy to support her this evening.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Helen Goodman and Maria Miller

Thursday 13th September 2012 Commons Chamber

[Maria Miller]

My hon. Friend will be aware that we continue to work with the Commission to clarify state aid details prior to our being able to proceed with that part of our programme. We anticipate Commission approval in the autumn and will continue as rapidly as possible to ensure that we make the necessary progress. Our country needs better connectivity to ensure that we are competitive in future.

[Helen Goodman (Bishop Auckland) (Lab)]

May I add my congratulations to the right hon. Lady? The reshuffle was supposed to be the delivery reshuffle. At questions last week, the Prime Minister said he wanted the Department for Culture, Media and Sport to support the economy by focusing on broadband roll-out. Will the Minister assure the House that, by 2015, 90% of the country will have superfast broadband?

[Maria Miller]

The hon. Lady will know that the reshuffle has delivered some very fast changes. We had announcements last Friday on freeing up the roll-out of superfast broadband from some of the regulations and red tape preventing us from moving forward as fast as we need to. I hope that she will join me in encouraging her constituents and others to support our measures.

Disability Benefits and Social Care

Debate between Helen Goodman and Maria Miller

Wednesday 20th June 2012 Commons Chamber

[Maria Miller]

The right hon. Gentleman knows exactly what I meant: our very clear commitment is to work at ensuring that those factories can be set free from Government control. That is absolutely what we are doing. We are spending a great deal of time—we started in March—on the process for expressions of interest. We have received more than 60 such expressions in respect of factories throughout the country—I believe we have now received about 65—many of which have gone forward to business plans. We hope that many more will go forward successfully. That is my aim, and it is why we are taking time to do this and taking the time to talk to Labour Members about this issue.

Labour Members need to wake up to what is happening in their constituencies. The hon. Member for Bishop Auckland (Helen Goodman) intervened during the speech by the right hon. Member for Birmingham, Hodge Hill, and I should gently remind her that although there are, importantly, 41 disabled people working in the factory in her constituency, many, many more are not receiving that support. Yet, through employment services, we were able to support more than 500 individuals into mainstream employment, not into segregated factories. So I would rather take the £740,000 loss on the factory in her constituency last year and use the money to support the individuals in that factory into mainstream employment, so that we can actually have the sort of world that my hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool North and Cleveleys has been talking about.

[Helen Goodman]

rose—

[Maria Miller]

Could the hon. Lady—

[Helen Goodman]

The Minister was talking about my constituency so it would be reasonable if she were to give way. She talks about the other disabled people in my constituency. They comprise 5,320 people on employment and support allowance and incapacity benefit, and 650 people who are labelled “disabled”. Does she think those people are pleased with the cuts in benefits she is imposing?

[Maria Miller]

The hon. Lady will know that they will be pleased that they have a Government who have protected the specialist disability employment budget—£320 million—and we want to make sure that it is working better for more people. We estimate that we could support an extra 8,000 people into employment if we were to use the money in a more compelling way. None of this reform was the sort of reform that the right hon. Member for Birmingham, Hodge Hill was looking at.

Let us also consider the work capability assessment, as Labour Members raised it. They will know that we inherited the programme from the right hon. Gentleman, but it was a harder, harsher and tougher process than the one we have now put in place. Since taking office, this Government have brought in Professor Harrington to renew these arrangements. Furthermore, we have listened to and implemented all the recommendations made in his independent review. The changes softened the system—

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Helen Goodman and Maria Miller

Thursday 23rd June 2011 Commons Chamber

[Maria Miller]

I agree with my hon. Friend that it is important for us to learn lessons. I welcome Mencap’s report, and was delighted to attend its launch earlier this week.

The police face a number of challenges, including not just data collection but the need to show leadership, to show that they are making the issue a priority, and to ensure that the right training is provided. I pay tribute to organisations such as Breakthrough UK in Manchester and BSafe Blackpool, with whose representatives I have discussed the issue at length.

[Helen Goodman (Bishop Auckland) (Lab)]

Has the Minister discussed with the Secretary of State for Justice whether the proposal in his Bill for the duties relating to all hate crimes to be wrapped up into a general duty will enable the current focus on individual groups to be retained?

[Maria Miller]

The hon. Lady has raised an important question. The first stage in the overall process involves our ensuring that we are aware of the magnitude of the problem, and it is therefore important that, since April, hate crimes have for the first time been recorded. As the hon. Lady suggests, we must ensure that we have access to a breakdown of the figures, and I will ensure that the appropriate people in the appropriate Ministry are aware of our feelings in that regard.

Low-income Households

Debate between Helen Goodman and Maria Miller

Tuesday 14th September 2010 Westminster Hall

[Maria Miller]

The hon. Lady is again being selective in her recollection of the facts. When we examine the level of child poverty now, we see that it has gone up since 2004 under Labour. She can throw her hands up in horror, but unfortunately the facts speak for themselves.

There are other facts that we need to acknowledge. Levels of household debt have gone up significantly. In 2009, there were almost 160,000 personal insolvencies in this country. Those were record levels; there were 30,000 more than in the previous year. The hon. Lady must look at the whole picture when giving the facts in the debate.

Further assertions have been made that progress was made under the previous Government because of the level of investment that they put in, but as we all know, investment alone is not the answer. We need structural changes in the way in which support systems work. In relation to welfare, spending on social security and tax credits has increased by about £60 billion in real terms over the past 10 years, yet as the hon. Member for Colchester said, there has been an inability to tackle the issues of poverty, and the performance on inequality has either stalled or deteriorated.

Now we face the biggest legacy from Labour of all, which is that we have the biggest deficit of any G20 country. It is incumbent on the present Government to get that deficit under control; otherwise, stability, either in interest rates or in our ability to provide employment for people or to encourage strong business, will be undermined. It is therefore absolutely right that the Government put first and foremost trying to get the deficit under control.

The Labour party now understands the failure of its policies in this area and that keeping on spending at unsustainable levels is not the way forward. The hon. Member for Bishop Auckland (Helen Goodman) was a Minister in the Department in which I am now a Minister when that spending spiralled out of control. She will know that the cuts would have had to come anyway and that her Department was already tabling 20% cuts. The problem is that the Opposition would not tell us where those cuts were to come from. Despite their being asked repeatedly, those details were not forthcoming.

[Helen Goodman]

There is absolutely no truth in the suggestion that the Department for Work and Pensions was proposing to the Treasury 20% cuts. I do not know where the hon. Lady has got that from. She certainly should not have seen the papers under the previous Administration. There is no truth in it, and I can assure her of that fact.

[Maria Miller]

Of course the hon. Lady will know that it was the other way round: the Treasury telling the Department for Work and Pensions that that was the case, because it was published in its detailed information about how a Labour Government would have to move forward after the last general election.

There is no option but for the present Government to be putting on the table the reform that is needed, because there is no viable alternative. We cannot proceed with the way in which the previous Government mismanaged the country. We have agreed and made it clear that we will protect the most needy and the most vulnerable. In the emergency Budget, my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer made it clear that the measures that he was proposing first and foremost would do that.

A number of hon. Members, including the hon. Member for Westminster North, referenced the IFS study. Obviously it is important that we examine such studies; and across Government that study will be taken seriously and examined in detail. However, as the hon. Lady will have to admit, it is not a complete analysis. There are omissions in the IFS analysis that make its findings incomplete. I am thinking particularly of the area that affects my Department the most—the impact of incentives to work, which will have a dynamic effect on all issues but were not taken into account in that study. The analysis by the hon. Member for Solihull (Lorely Burt) of the IFS report was a helpful contribution to the debate and balanced some of the other comments.

Another area that many hon. Members touched on was the impact of the Budget measures on families in general. My hon. Friend the Member for Cities of London and Westminster (Mr Field) referred to the wide-ranging impact that poverty can have on communities. I join him in applauding the work that Westminster city council does in that respect. I know about that, having met people involved in it before the election, when I was not in my current post, to hear in more detail about the family recovery plan in that area.

The Budget measures included increases in the child element of the tax credit that are well above inflation. That meant that the measures taken to freeze child benefit would be neutralised. We saw in the Budget a very effective way of protecting the poorest families by ensuring that we target the help available to us on the people who need it most.

A number of hon. Members referenced the VAT increase. I want to ensure that it is clear to hon. Members that that still does not apply to the things that children need the most: food and clothing. Therefore the increase will not have the impact that some of the scaremongers who have been talking about it might imply.

The hon. Member for Westminster North asked where the savings were coming from. I suggest to her that having 2.1 million people written off on old-style incapacity benefits is not the best and most effective way to run the country, that work is the best way out of poverty and that helping more of those people out of benefit dependency and into work will be an effective way of reducing our benefits bill.

In addition, we are working on a number of ways to ensure that families and parents benefit from work. Jobcentre Plus is now very experienced in developing employment programmes to support lone parents. The previous Government did a lot of work on that. Lone parent advisers have flexible options to enable families to get into work whenever they can, within the needs of the families and particularly their children’s need to go to school. [Interruption.] If hon. Members will forgive me, I have two minutes to try to complete my answers to an extremely long list of questions.

I want to talk directly about child poverty. The hon. Member for Colchester challenged me again on a number of issues to do with child poverty. I confirm to him that I have had meetings with both Save the Children and Barnardo’s. He talked about putting in place a cross-Government scheme to examine these issues. The Cabinet Committee considering social justice issues will be exactly the forum to debate some of these matters. Perhaps I can give him more details of that later.

The coalition Government continue to be committed to the aims of the Child Poverty Act 2010 and eradicating child poverty by 2020. The latest figures show that 2.8 million children remain in poverty. That is an increase of 100,000 since 2004 and is well off the previous Government’s targets. The Opposition need to acknowledge that fact if we are to have a reasoned debate.

There are a number of issues that I have not been able to cover in my comments. I was glad that the hon. Member for Solihull mentioned issues relating to pensioner poverty. Our policies in that respect will do a great deal to alleviate some of the problems faced by pensioners. With regard to disabled people, perhaps I can clarify one point for the hon. Member for Stretford and Urmston (Kate Green). It will not be a medical gateway that we introduce in relation to DLA. It is an objective assessment. I just wanted to put her mind at rest on that.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Helen Goodman and Maria Miller

Monday 14th June 2010 Commons Chamber

[Maria Miller]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his question. Teenage pregnancy is a critical part of the poverty strategy and one of the issues that will be considered in the cross-departmental Cabinet Committee on social justice which we will establish. It is important for the House to remember that, under the previous Government, not enough progress was made on that matter, but we will put that record right.

[Helen Goodman (Bishop Auckland) (Lab)]

Can the Minister confirm that the decision taken in recent days not to extend entitlement to free school meals to primary school children whose parents are on working tax credit will mean 50,000 more children living in poverty than otherwise would have been? Yes or no?

[Maria Miller]

We should be absolutely clear that the rules for determining eligibility for free school meals have not changed, and all pupils who currently qualify for free school meals will continue to be eligible. The issue was dear to the hon. Lady’s heart and something that she pushed forward when she was in government, and I should like to reassure her that there are pilots in place in Newham, Durham and Wolverhampton to see whether there is a robust case for extending free school meals. We feel that the extension was prematurely announced, without evidence from the pilots, so I ask her why, if she felt so strongly about the issue, she did not push it forward earlier in the 13 years of a Labour Government.