Fairness and Inequality

Debate between Guto Bebb and Brian H. Donohoe

Tuesday 11th February 2014 Commons Chamber

[Guto Bebb]

It undoubtedly did not help.

When we discuss inequality we should be aware of the key point that the Government have been very proactive in ensuring that the inequality faced by pensioners is dealt with. We can compare the impact of the triple lock on pensioner poverty with the previous Labour Government’s decision to increase pensions by a paltry 75p.

[Mr Brian H. Donohoe (Central Ayrshire) (Lab)]

Taxation is not just about income tax, but about VAT. Is that not perhaps the most unfair tax on those at the bottom of the pile?

[Guto Bebb]

I would reject that argument. We talk about VAT, we often forget the exemptions. If somebody is buying a new Ferrari, I have no problem with their paying £50,000 in VAT. If somebody buys their food in a supermarket, they pay 0% in VAT. If VAT were 20% on every single item, it would be a regressive tax. For those who spend a significant proportion of their income on food, or on household fuel, which is taxed at 5% rather than 20%, the VAT issue is not as clear cut as Opposition Members try to make it.

Public Sector Pensions

Debate between Guto Bebb and Brian H. Donohoe

Thursday 8th December 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Donohoe]

I am grateful to you, Madam Deputy Speaker, for that guidance. I am sure that that is what I was about to say. In about 70 years, my grandchildren will collect their first pension. I want it to be a decent pension, regardless of whether they are in the public sector or the private sector.

At the age of 22, I first became involved in pensions as a trustee of the pension scheme at the Ailsa shipyard where I worked. I have always had an interest in pensions as a result. Many people do not have a clue about pensions. I have always accepted that a pension is deferred income. My pension is part of my income, and pensions are the income of every person who contributes. It is income that this Government are taking from individuals. I know that and other hon. Members should know it.

[Guto Bebb]

I find the hon. Gentleman’s arguments very interesting. If pension contributions are deferred income, is not the disparity between pay in the public sector and the private sector in Wales even more scandalous?

[Mr Donohoe]

The hon. Gentleman obviously does not understand what I have just said. It is clear that most people do not understand that pension contributions by an employer are deferred income. They are part of a person’s income and should be treated as such regardless of whether they are in the private or public sector. That should be known to everybody.

The increase in contributions that was announced in the spending review will not be used to pay for pensions. My understanding is that that £2.8 billion is specifically to be used to reduce the deficit—that is in the Red Book. Perhaps the Minister would like to establish in his winding-up speech whether that is right. I also understand that the proposal was a political choice by the Government rather than being made out of necessity. They have scrapped Labour’s tax on bankers’ bonuses, which was to raise more than £3 billion in revenue, and replaced it with a tax on public sector workers’ incomes.

Those changes are being made against a backdrop of a two-year pay freeze for public sector workers, which of course was announced on the eve of last week’s strike. That was a very provocative statement intended, I suggest, to fan the flames of dissent among public sector workers. The changes also come at a time when inflation is running at about 5%. That in itself has reduced the value of public sector pay by almost 10% in real terms, which is not sustainable in the current climate. We all understand that we have difficult choices to make, and we all understand the state of the economy, but pensions should be considered for the long term. It is patent that that is not happening.

Road Fuel Duties

Debate between Guto Bebb and Brian H. Donohoe

Tuesday 13th September 2011 Westminster Hall

[Mr Donohoe]

That was one of my conclusions, so it is useful that the hon. Gentleman has made that point. This morning, the Fair Fuel UK campaign e-mailed me, as I am sure it mailed everybody. Like everybody in this room, barring perhaps the Economic Secretary, I signed the e-petition. As a consequence, only 17,000 signatures are now required to reach 100,000. I urge everybody—not just those here but anybody listening to this debate who is concerned about high fuel prices—to sign the petition so that a full debate can be held. This is, after all, only an Adjournment debate. Important as it might be, we need a full debate in the House with the Government leading. I look forward to it.

In conclusion, we must consider the issues that I have highlighted. The Government know that the Labour party opposes 20% VAT, which has helped to push up petrol prices to their current levels. I did not realise until I was preparing for this debate that VAT is put on top of the tax, so the duty is taxed with VAT. If the tax is 50p, 20% VAT is put on top of that fuel duty. The Government should look at that. If, as is being argued, a reduction in VAT is not an option because of the bureaucracy across the water in Brussels, we could consider a reduction in fuel duty to lower the cost of taxation, which, as I have said, is initially some 80p per litre. The Economic Secretary and the Treasury should look at that.

[Guto Bebb (Aberconwy) (Con)]

On VAT, I have been in discussions with a representative from a coach company in my constituency, which has put on hold plans to employ more staff because of the extent of fuel duty. One of the issues that he raised was VAT. He actually argued in favour of a higher rate of VAT for diesel and petrol, because, as a business, he can reclaim the VAT but not the fuel duty. I wonder whether the Treasury has an opinion on that.

[Mr Donohoe]

That is a matter for the Economic Secretary, not me, to address, but I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. A tax increase is being proposed for next January and August, but I would like an assurance from the Economic Secretary that it will not be implemented. The best way to help hard-pressed consumers would be for the Government not to adjust the tax on families, who are already feeling the squeeze as a consequence of the Government’s policy on pay freezes and pension hikes.

We also have to look at the big six energy providers, which recently announced large price rises and bigger profits. The Government must have scope to look at that in order to redress, via a windfall tax, the whole problem of taxation. There is also the issue of the Government’s policy—if it is a policy—to move people from the road to public transport. The Government have just increased the cost of rail travel by 10%, which seems to go against everything that is being argued. Is that policy supported and likely to continue to be supported by the Treasury?

A number of representatives from rural areas are present. More emphasis needs to be put on trying to allay the problems associated with living in the countryside, which are an enormous burden on businesses and the consumer in those areas. I have already mentioned the removal of the duty differential for biodiesel, but the position of that industry needs to be addressed by the Government. It is a growing industry and one that is useful in addressing both public and private transport in my constituency. I have already mentioned the prices set by supermarkets and oil providers, which have to be addressed.

I have two final points. The Government must reduce the tax on petrol. That would increase employment prospects, particularly those of the nurse whom I mentioned earlier, as well as those of people who rely on public transport to get to work. Finally, I am old enough to remember when fuel prices were fixed universally throughout the whole country. A lot of the commodities that were deemed at that time to be essential, such as bread and milk, were all the same price. Given the disparity between the highest and lowest price in this country, will the Government examine the issue so that the disparity is overcome and the price of petrol is not a commodity with which the supermarkets and some of the country’s suppliers play?