Draft Transport and Works (Guided Transport Modes) (Amendment) Order 2022

Debate between Greg Knight and Huw Merriman

Tuesday 22nd November 2022 General Committees

[The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Huw Merriman)]

I beg to move,

That the Committee has considered the draft Transport and Works (Guided Transport Modes) (Amendment) Order 2022.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Dame Caroline. Orders made under the Transport and Works Act 1992 are the usual way to authorise the construction or operation of local transport schemes, such as railways, tramways or trolley vehicle systems, in England and Wales, as well as transport systems using a mode of guided transport prescribed by order.

The modes that are currently prescribed that can seek authorisation via the Transport and Works Act include road-based and track-based systems, but those are limited to systems guided by physical means, such as cables or tracks. Changes in technology mean that transport systems can now be guided by non-physical means, which might include simple sensor systems that detect paint or other road markings to direct a vehicle, or more complex sensor systems that read the surrounding environment to direct the vehicle. The draft amendment order will extend the Transport and Works (Guided Transport Modes) Order 1992 to allow applications for public transport schemes using non-physical guidance systems to be authorised via a Transport and Works Act order.

The order will not change the process that a promoter is required to follow in seeking authorisation through the Transport and Works Act regime or the way in which such applications are decided. It will simply allow a wider and more modern range of schemes to be considered and authorised under the Transport and Works Act. In other words, should the proposed change be approved, parties impacted by a scheme that will use a form of non-physically guided technology will continue to have the opportunity to submit their views on that scheme. Any views that are submitted will be fully considered before a decision is made on whether to grant consent on a specific scheme.

Let me provide further context and background on what the Transport and Works Act covers. The Act is intended to be a one-stop consenting mechanism for all the powers needed to deliver and operate a transport scheme. An application made under section 1 of the Act can include a wide range of matters set out in schedule 1 to the Act, such as the construction, alteration, repair, maintenance, demolition and removal of railways, tramways, trolley vehicle systems and other transport systems allowed under the Act.

[Sir Greg Knight (East Yorkshire) (Con)]

Can the Minister assure the Committee that there will be a joined-up approach here? For example, I notice that this proposal applies only to England and Wales. What assurances can he give me that, if I decide in a few years’ time to go from the north of England to Scotland in a self-driving car, that car will not stop at the Scottish border because Scotland has introduced a different method?

[Huw Merriman]

My right hon. Friend makes an excellent point. As he rightly mentioned, the order applies to England and Wales. We have sought the approval of the Welsh Administration, who are content with it. Scotland has its own Transport and Works Act mechanism. My right hon. Friend is right that the issue he raises will have to be taken into consideration when one gets to the stage of looking at a joined-up Union system. However, it will be for the Scottish Administration to move matters forward. I will write to the Scottish Executive, and I will go beyond the point that they are content because they have their own mechanism and actually inquire as to how they would see cross-border activity working in practice. I would just make the point that this is an enabling piece of legislation, so every project under it would itself have to be approved, and Scotland would of course need the same enabling mechanism. However, I will write to my right hon. Friend with the assurance he seeks.

Applicants seeking authorisation under the Transport and Works Act can apply to construct, alter, repair, maintain or demolish roads buildings and other structures, as needed to allow for the delivery of a scheme. If the order is approved, such provisions will apply equally to a guided mode of transport system using sensor technology, where applicants are required to deliver such a scheme. That demonstrates that there is currently wide provision to allow an application to incorporate any of the aforementioned matters where they are necessary and appropriate for the delivery of the scheme under consideration. That will not change as a result of the order. The power to make this amending order is set out in section 2 of the Transport and Works Act but is subject to approval by a resolution of each House of Parliament.

The term “guided transport” is defined as

“transport by vehicles guided by means external to the vehicles (whether or not the vehicles are also capable of being operated in some other way)”.

The order seeks to cover transport by vehicles guided by non-physical guidance systems. These systems, whether simple sensor systems that detect paint or other road markings, or more complex sensor systems that read the surrounding environment, are external to the vehicle.

To conclude, the order is essential to support innovation in transport and to allow the use of new, more advanced technologies. It had wide support from those who responded to the public consultation on this change. As enabling legislation, it does not impose additional costs on applicants applying for Transport and Works Act orders or on the Government in taking forward and providing consent for such applications. I hope Members will join me in supporting the order, and I commend it to the Committee.

Rail Strikes

Debate between Greg Knight and Huw Merriman

Wednesday 15th June 2022 Commons Chamber

[Huw Merriman]

I certainly take that point, but just I heard from another member of our Committee that Network Rail is still striking in Wales, and when it is about Network Rail members of the RMT, that tends to shut the railway down. In my example of when the RMT was striking in the Southern region, that did not shut the system down because that only happened when ASLEF drivers were involved. We will both check the record on that, no doubt, but that is how I am informed.

[Sir Greg Knight (East Yorkshire) (Con)]

rose—

[Huw Merriman]

I will take one last intervention and that is it.

Parking (Code of Practice) Bill

Debate between Greg Knight and Huw Merriman

3rd reading: House of Commons & Report stage: House of Commons
Friday 23rd November 2018 Commons Chamber

[Huw Merriman (Bexhill and Battle) (Con)]

It is an absolute pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Perth and North Perthshire (Pete Wishart). I congratulate my right hon. Friend the Member for East Yorkshire (Sir Greg Knight) on finally bringing this madness, quite frankly, to an end with this Bill.

Many right hon. and hon. Members have talked about their constituents’ experiences of receiving unfair parking enforcement notices. I declare an interest because I have experienced the exact same situation. I drove into an underground hotel car park, got my bag out and went into the hotel. A member of the hotel’s staff then told me how much the parking charge was—it was more expensive than the hotel room—but that there was a really good local authority car park around the corner. I took that advice. I got back in my car, drove out and parked in the local authority car park without any problem. However, I received a fine from a parking operator because I had driven in and driven out of the hotel car park five minutes later. I won my appeal, but the hotel company said that it would discipline its member of staff for advising me to park elsewhere. Perhaps that is a private Member’s Bill for another day.

On the border of my constituency, there is a local authority car park. Bizarrely, part of the land is privately owned. People park there because they think they can park for free, just as they can for the local authority part. There is no signage on the part that is privately owned and people do get charged. It is an absolute sting.

[Sir Greg Knight]

My hon. Friend is making a very good point. That is why it is essential that the code of practice has a transaction period that is free. In other words, it would give motorists thinking time between entering a car park and deciding whether or not to stay. In some parts of the country, car parks are situated in conservation areas where, for planning reasons, signage is inside. We need to give motorists time to go in and think, so they can say, “No, this is not for me” and leave without facing a penalty.

[Huw Merriman]

My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. We are talking about contract law. If people pick up an item in Boots priced £5 but at the till they are charged £10, many people think they can actually get the item for £5. In fact, under the offer and acceptance of contract law, the contract is formed only at the time of execution. Yet when one goes into a car park, one can be charged before executing the transaction. That has to be a breach of contract law.

On the charging mechanism, there is no proper definition for what is a reasonable and proportionate charge. That is of particular interest, because my former chambers sought a legal opinion from the Royal Automobile Club. The feeling was that the legal definition of reasonable and proportionate would be the cost of administering the charge. What was unusual was that the Supreme Court was asked to decide and found that £85 was reasonable and proportionate. The QC, however, felt that it was several times higher.

Perhaps the Minister could commit to guidance on what the charge should be. If that were to follow local authority charging, which outside London would be £60, I would perhaps stray into another area and say that I do not believe £60 is reasonable and proportionate. Local authorities will say that that is the cost because they do not make any profits, but I believe that they do. I believe that local authorities, time and again, use the money they raise from parking to pay for other areas of their spending. They are not supposed to do that. Barnet Borough Council, which was taken to court and lost, freely admitted that it was levying excessive charges to raise money for other services. No other local authority will ever admit that. There is a permitted amount they can spend from parking revenues on measures that enhance the environment. However, that is so wide and woolly that local authorities can effectively charge in any way they want.

Confidence in the Secretary of State for Transport

Debate between Greg Knight and Huw Merriman

Tuesday 19th June 2018 Commons Chamber

[Huw Merriman (Bexhill and Battle) (Con)]

Madam Deputy Speaker, I am terribly sorry for stepping out of the Chamber earlier than I should have done. It should be me who steps down. I am grateful for being able to say a few words this afternoon, not least because I am a member of the Transport Committee.

I wanted to speak on this subject because I think there has been too much chopping and changing in the entire industry over the years. I recognise what the Opposition motion aims to deliver, but I ask them whether any more changes in leadership would actually deliver the stability that is required. I am not trying to make an argument that might play well; I absolutely mean it.

I have worked with the chief executive of GTR, Charles Horton, over a number of years, and I have tried to work between him and the leader of the RMT, Mick Cash, with whom I have a good working relationship, to try to find a way through the Southern industrial dispute. Charles Horton has now stepped down, which I know many people will celebrate, but, frankly, this is a man with years and years of rail experience who truly cares about putting things right. I am sorry because, frankly, I would rather see people stay in post to turn things around. If there are areas of responsibility, fine, allocate them, but then put that person under the spotlight to deliver the change that makes things better. I absolutely believe the same goes for the Government.

When the Government change position, it sometimes feels as though we have government by six-month fixed-term contracts; there is not enough stability and tenure in post. I support the Secretary of State. He has come to the Transport Committee and has been incredibly open and direct about, for example, where he sees the franchise system is not working and about the need for change.

Now that the Secretary of State has the opportunity to put new franchise agreements in place, it seems right that he should inject some of his ideas for change into those agreements. It is not as though he has constantly said that everything works well. He has admitted there are particular challenges.

[Sir Greg Knight (East Yorkshire) (Con)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that one way forward might be to follow the suggestion of my hon. Friend the Member for Hitchin and Harpenden (Bim Afolami) to increase the availability of compensation to passengers who have been badly treated?

[Huw Merriman]

I certainly do, not least because my Automatic Travel Compensation Bill is awaiting Second Reading. The Bill is all about automatic and automated compensation, on which I have met the Rail Minister. It is fair to say that I have not quite persuaded him of the Bill’s merits, but it would place a duty on train companies that currently receive money from Network Rail where there have been delays. Only a third of passengers claim for such delays, so I contend that extra money is left with the train operators. My Bill would require the train operators to invest that money in technology so that my right hon. Friend and I could both tap in and tap out, which would tell us whether we had been delayed by more than 15 or 30 minutes, and if we had been, we would automatically be credited with the compensation we were due. That would be a good step forward, because passengers find it too complex and difficult to claim. Therefore, they do not claim, and as a result, they feel raw about the service. The Government could do more for passengers by making it easier to claim compensation, and perhaps passengers would then give us more support on some of the other changes we are trying to put through. That is a rather lengthy response, but I agree with my right hon. Friend. I hope that my Bill’s Second Reading will yield some success. If my hon. Friend the Member for Hitchin and Harpenden (Bim Afolami) has a similar proposal, perhaps we could merge the two.

On the rail timetabling issue, my constituency has had an additional service—a fourth service each hour—in an incredibly congested network. I take my hat off to GTR and my rail user group, which came up with an ingenious solution to deliver the extra service without any new rolling stock. The timetable just changed when trains go back and forth between Ashford and Brighton, which has worked incredibly well.

I understand that we, as MPs, are less likely to hear about things that have worked well. Quite rightly, we hear about the challenges where things have not worked. I use the trains every day to come into work, and today I had the opportunity to talk to one of the conductors on my line, a guy called Giles. I was supposed to be reading through the Transport Committee’s draft report on rail infrastructure, but I put it down to have a chat with the conductor. We chatted for the entire journey about some of the issues he has, and his points were well raised. He is aware that, as technology advances, the workforce will need to embrace it, too. His concern on the role of the guard, conductor or on-board supervisor, as these people tend to be called, is that there will be fewer of them. That is a valid concern, because most passengers on trains want to see a second member of staff on board.

My point is that, where the system is inflexible, if the second member of staff is unable to join the train for any reason, that train cannot roll. I was a Southern season ticket holder for 10 years and we had one train every hour, so when that train could not go because the conductor was not able to board, there was a two-hour delay, which was no good for anybody. It certainly was no good for tackling congestion or for those who had mobility issues in the station. So I like the flexibility that has now been introduced in Southern whereby in all but exceptional circumstances there must be a second member of staff on board. Where such circumstances do apply—and this cannot be where Southern has not recruited enough conductors—the train can still roll, so passengers can get home. Of course that type of situation has existed on Southeastern for years and it also exists on 30% of the rail network, where the driver operates the doors.

There is another point to make about incidents that have taken place, including one in Liverpool. Where the driver and the conductor are performing different roles, tragedies can occur. A young lady died on the tracks and the coroner’s inquest made the point that if the control mechanism is taken by one person, we are less likely to see that eventuality occur. I often hear safety used as the reason why this is an issue. I was asked by the rail unions to see whether a safety report could be created. We got the rail regulator to deliver that, but it was then ignored, so I feel that all sides need to work a little more together.