Oral Answers to Questions
Debate between Grahame Morris and Justin Madders(6 years ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Justin Madders (Ellesmere Port and Neston) (Lab)
Grahame Morris (Easington) (Lab)
Draft Nursing and Midwifery (Amendment) Order 2018
Debate between Grahame Morris and Justin Madders(6 years, 5 months ago)
General CommitteesRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Justin Madders
It is fair to say it is on board the train. On whether it is fully behind this, it is a question of ensuring that it is done in the right way. I will go on to outline where its main concerns lie.
As the Minister will know, there is a question about substitution. I commend his ingenuity in claiming that the vacancy rate in the nursing profession is only 1%, which must be a record for the public sector. I am sure he will be talking to his ministerial colleagues about how he has managed to achieve that. There is clearly an issue with the level of money spent on agency and bank nurses in the NHS, so we must remind ourselves that the real figure is much higher.
As my hon. Friend the Member for Huddersfield said, there is anxiety about substitution, particularly in the context of the high vacancy rate we believe there is. The fact is, more nurses are leaving the profession than joining it, and there is also a demographic challenge in that one in three nurses are due to retire in the next decade. In that context, there is well-founded anxiety that nursing associates could be used as a substitute for registered nurses.
I appreciate what the Minister said about providing a bridge or a ladder between particular roles, but there may be concerns, as some trusts have acted in, shall we say, a quite remarkable or coincidental way. The Warrington hospital trust agreed to reduce the number of full-time equivalent nurses on its wards by 23.58, and at the same time created 24 new nursing associate roles. That seems quite a remarkable coincidence and shows why there will be legitimate questions about whether the order will continue to be fit for purpose if it turns out that nursing associates are taking on more of the nursing role.
Grahame Morris
My hon. Friend makes an important point. If nursing associates are going to be used to replace registered nurses, that is a huge concern. Everything that we have learned about some of the terrible things that have happened—including the announcement in today’s statement—shows that numbers are important, but so is the right skill mix. We have to ensure that we have an appropriately skilled nurse workforce to ensure that we deliver high standards of care in hospitals and social care settings.
Justin Madders
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We need to keep a close eye on that. It is not fair on the professionals involved, and it is certainly not fair on patients, if people are asked to do things beyond their capacity or competence. The order would be a fool’s errand if we found that that became commonplace.
Was the Minister aware of the issue in Warrington, and has he made inquiries about any risks or trends in substitution? Does he intend to put safeguards in place to prevent it from becoming commonplace?