BBC (Proposed Cuts)

Glyn Davies Excerpts

Thursday 1st December 2011 Commons Chamber

[Glyn Davies (Montgomeryshire) (Con)]

Thank you for inviting me to speak, Madam Deputy Speaker, in this debate on a subject that is hugely important for the people of Wales—possibly temporarily, before the whole thing is moved to Bristol.

I love the BBC. I love it as one might love a cantankerous auntie or some other relation. I enjoy complaining about the BBC, in much the same way as the hon. Member for Great Grimsby (Austin Mitchell), who introduced this debate, might enjoy complaining about the weather. I enjoy complaining about the left-wing bias and the ridiculous obsession with wind farms. In fact, about three weeks ago I even wrote a letter of complaint to the BBC—the first I have written in my life, I think. I wrote to “EastEnders”, because there was a line in it where someone said that somebody had died as a result of a bee sting. I was approached by all the apiarists in my constituency, who were outraged at the damage that that would do to beekeeping throughout Britain. I wrote to the BBC asking it to make it clear that dying from a bee sting is an incredibly rare event. When the BBC does such things on “EastEnders”, there should be a high-profile rebuttal of the idea that such events happen regularly. I am therefore taking advantage of this debate to make that rebuttal, because I do not think that the BBC issued one.

The BBC is hugely important in Wales; indeed, it is probably more important to Wales than to any other part of the country. I know that we all think that, but Wales is a proud nation, and the BBC not only delivers the same thing to Wales as to the rest of Britain, but actually underpins the culture of Wales. The BBC in Wales has its own orchestra. The BBC is absolutely part of Welsh culture. It does a terrific amount of work for our unique language—Welsh, the language of heaven. It is not just S4C that has been involved in that, but the BBC, which has played such an important part in developing the language. Indeed, it is one of the success stories when it comes to the world’s minority languages, and we have to recognise the role the BBC has played in that.

The BBC, through its coverage of the National Assembly for Wales, is also playing a huge part in the development of the political identity of Wales. I am unashamedly Welsh through and through, and I have been incredibly proud of the work the BBC has done to make Wales an identifiable nation since devolution became a reality in 1999. I am also proud of the work it is continuing to do, and I do not want to see it stop.

The truth is, however, that the BBC had to reduce its costs. The reduction in the licence fee—what we call BBC cuts—is an entirely reasonable expectation. The Government obviously have an influence on the licence fee in its discussion with the BBC, and vulnerable people must be protected. The BBC licence fee is a regressive tax, which impacts more on the poorer in society than on the wealthy. At a time when the whole nation faces difficult economic and financial circumstances—we cannot be sure how long they will last—it would be completely wrong for the BBC not to make a contribution through the licence fee. I am fully supportive of the reduction in the level of the licence fee.

I want to make three points; the first is about S4C. One of the BBC cuts is for S4C funding to the tune of a little less than £80 million a year. This is the first chance I have had to speak on this since serving on the Committee considering the Public Bodies Bill, which was effectively taken over by the issue for a significant part of its work. It helped all of us to understand the impact of the BBC in Wales. I received 1,100 e-mails about the proposed changes in the Public Bodies Bill, which people feared would give the BBC excessive influence over S4C. I sought assurances from the Minister and was very encouraged by those I received. What we found in the end is that the result has been a terrific score. I thus wanted in this Chamber to say a huge thank you to those who delivered the agreement between the BBC and S4C, which has produced what is as close to an operationally independent S4C in Wales as could be hoped for. We feared that that would not happen, but the matter has been laid to rest. I also want to mention the BBC National Trustee for Wales, Elan Closs Stephens, who played a terrific part in bringing about that agreement, which needs to be publicly recognised.

My second point is about English language broadcasting in Wales—an issue also raised by the former controller of BBC Wales in a recent high-profile speech. Many Wales MPs have been so focused on the future operational independence of S4C that we have perhaps not argued as strongly as we should have for Wales to have its fair share of English language production. It hurt me a little when I read in the report of the former controller of BBC Wales that Welsh politicians did not fight remotely as hard for English language broadcasting in their country as the Scots did. I thought that that was a challenge to us. One reason I wanted to speak in today’s debate was to try to make it certain that Welsh politicians started fighting for their share of English language broadcasting in Wales. It is not just a matter of S4C; it is about English language broadcasting as well.

The hon. Member for Walsall South (Valerie Vaz) suggested looking at the issue like an accountant to see whether BBC broadcasting in Wales could be transferred to Bristol. I can see that making a lot of sense from an accountant’s point of view, but my hon. Friend the Member for Vale of Glamorgan (Alun Cairns) and other hon. Friends leapt to our feet like startled rabbits when we heard that. That is how we felt. I could not believe that anybody could possibly make such a suggestion—even in jest. It struck me that at that stage not a single Member from Wales from any party other than the Conservatives must have heard it. I would have thought that Opposition Members, including the hon. Member for Blaenau Gwent (Nick Smith) who was not in his place at that stage, would have leapt to their feet, too.

[Valerie Vaz]

The hon. Gentleman is being slightly unfair or failing to understand the point I was making. It was a simple one. I meant that if it was a question of costs, then there was such a possibility. It is not on anybody’s agenda, but I thought that, just by saying it, perhaps the situation could be saved.

[Glyn Davies]

I thank the hon. Lady. When she made that suggestion, it was the first time that I had ever heard it. Perhaps this is the quickest ever way to save a situation—three quarters of an hour after what the hon. Lady said. That seems promising, but the suggestion itself is so unreasonable and outrageous that one cannot even contemplate it. My own view is that if changes have to be made, perhaps we could move Bristol to Cardiff.

[Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab)]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way, and I am sorry I had slipped out of the Chamber when that remark was made. I do not think anything serious was meant by it. I believe that the BBC Cardiff operation is fantastic. As we all know, it is the home of “Doctor Who”. I cannot believe that the significant investment made by BBC Wales in Cardiff in recent years will be overtaken by a move across the nearby channel.

[Glyn Davies]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for reinforcing my point.

[Alun Cairns]

Does my hon. Friend think that the hon. Member for Walsall South (Valerie Vaz) meant Bristol, Tennessee or Bristol in Avon?

[Glyn Davies]

I think I will pass on that one.

My third point is about political coverage in Wales. The new controller of BBC Wales has produced a plan for the future. On the face of it, the plan is a worry for politicians, particularly those based here in Westminster. It looks as if political coverage in Wales, particularly of politics in Westminster, will be reduced. If that happened, it would be a huge concern for me. I am reassured that it will not. We will have to wait and see the extent to which transferring the production of programmes from BBC Wales to the private sector happens. I gather that one programme in particular will be commissioned by the private sector. Let us wait and see how it works out and whether it delivers the same level of political coverage that we have been used to.

My feeling—this is a criticism I have made of the BBC in the past and I have heard Opposition Members express the same concern—is that coverage of Westminster politics is not as strong as it should be. It is more convenient for the BBC, given that it is located in Cardiff, to contact Members of the National Assembly and to relate to them. It is more difficult for it relate to Members of Parliament. It places a responsibility on us to make sure that we are noticed and that the BBC reports what we do. It is a serious concern, and I believe that over the next couple of years, we will have to look at whether the changes to the BBC in Cardiff actually deliver what the controller tells us they are going to deliver. I hope that our fears will not prove to be worth being overly concerned about.

There is no doubt that the BBC faces a huge challenge. The reductions in the licence fee and in the investment that the BBC can make are going to mean an awful lot of changes, but £3.5 billion is a huge amount of money. My view is that the BBC will return to the swaggering, confident self it used to be but has perhaps not been for the last couple of years, so that I can start to feel comfortable complaining about the BBC again. I look forward to regaining some of the pleasure I have often taken from that.

--- Later in debate ---

[Alun Cairns]

If the right hon. and learned Member for Camberwell and Peckham (Ms Harman) wants to intervene on that point, I will happily respond.

James Murdoch has highlighted that when some years ago Radio 2 was losing its target audience of 24 to 45-year-olds, it paid millions of pounds to recruit Jonathan Ross to try to regain those listeners even though commercial operators already addressed that audience. If that is not an example of the BBC squeezing out competition, I do not know what is.

Does it make sense for the BBC to cover sporting events that ITV, Channels 4 or 5 or Sky would like to broadcast? I agree that we need to look at what should be free to air and whether pay per view is appropriate in all areas, but let us consider the example of Formula 1. The BBC has paid £300 million to screen Formula 1 over a five-year period. That amounts to £3 million per race, yet Sky will also broadcast every race. The partnership between Sky and the BBC is a significant and positive step forward, as it is certainly better than the previous situation of their competing outright, but two issues remain unresolved. First, could not ITV, Channels 4 or 5 or another broadcaster screen that popular sport? Secondly, the simple fact of the BBC bidding with public money will drive up the price and squeeze opportunities for others.

I recognise that the quality of the BBC can give it an edge over other broadcasters, but I remind Members that the BBC covered test match cricket for a long time, but the greatest innovations in the coverage of the sport occurred when the broadcasting rights were won by Channel 4 and then Sky, who took coverage to a much more sophisticated level. Innovations such as Hawk-Eye were introduced and a more informal approach to cricket attracted more viewers and new audiences.

I pay tribute to the BBC’s website coverage, which has set the standard for such output. It covers national and regional news in a structured way, and addresses subject matters across the spectrum from hard news to social gossip. It is an excellent example of the innovation the BBC can achieve. Yet if it continues to dominate this part of the market, that could prevent other providers—newspapers, broadcasters or even new entrants—from having the opportunity to innovate. The BBC set excellent standards, but it needs to consider whether there should be a subsequent, partial withdrawal when the market has matured.

I strongly support the BBC’s activities in areas where the market cannot provide. News in general is extremely important, and without the BBC’s news activities in many parts of the UK there simply would not be any coverage of significant news or social or cultural events. Wales and Scotland are of particular relevance in this regard, especially with the advent of devolution.

Other Members have talked about local television, so I shall now briefly address a parochial issue. The UK press does not always cover Wales as adequately as it should. This is where the BBC comes into its own of course, but in Wales its implementation of the Delivering Quality First agenda involves a squeeze on its political coverage. It argues that news is not being cut under the current proposals, yet there is a reduction in political output. Politics is news, so there is obviously a cut to news.

Although the BBC has, to its credit, responded well to devolution, that should not be achieved at the cost of coverage of non-devolved matters. Over recent years, there has been a trend to reduce political coverage on mainstream news outlets. Welsh questions have been covered on a mainstream outlet in Wales since 1987, but under current proposals that will no longer be the case.

[Glyn Davies]

Does my hon. Friend agree that Members of all parties must not stand back on this issue? Instead, we must raise our voices to complain, as a former controller of the BBC has urged, so that we in Wales get the coverage we deserve?

[Alun Cairns]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that intervention, and in his speech he highlighted that very point, and I underline it and pay tribute to it. Let us all have confidence about complaining to the BBC when we are unhappy so that it can respond. If we do not air issues and concerns, how will the BBC know about them?

I recognise that we, as politicians, are not the most popular people in the world. I would suggest, however, that some of the issues we debate are at least sometimes relevant to mainstream outlets in the nations and regions of the UK. There is no proposal to change coverage on the English regional output—granted, there will be local changes to BBC radio in England, but in Wales that situation does not exist.

While I am discussing Wales-related issues, I want to join my hon. Friend the Member for Montgomeryshire (Glyn Davies) in recognising the deal on S4C and I pay tribute to the BBC and the Secretary of State for delivering what he promised at the outset: a channel that was well funded, secure in its funding for the future and operationally and editorially independent. There were many sceptics in the debate, but even they have now been won over. I support the tribute that was paid to Elan Closs Stephens and to the chairman of S4C, Huw Jones, at the end of the negotiations, despite some of the difficult tensions among the membership of the authority.

Let me return to the broader issues. I know that the BBC has made significant progress on salary levels, but there remains scope for some further progress, particularly in relation to talent. I know that Graham Norton’s deal reduced from £16.9 million over three years to £4 million over two.