ISIL in Syria

Gerald Kaufman Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd December 2015 Commons Chamber

[Sir Gerald Kaufman (Manchester, Gorton) (Lab)]

There is of course absolutely no doubt that Daesh/IS is a vile, loathsome, murderous organisation, and the attack in Paris—the murder of 130 innocent people—could just as well have been in London. The choice of Paris was a retaliation against French activity in its region, but that does not justify our taking action unless it were appropriate, relevant and, above all, successful. These people claim to call themselves Islamic, and the Prime Minister talked about reclaiming Islam from them—they do not own Islam. Hundreds of millions of Muslims throughout the world are appalled by their murders, their beheadings, their kidnappings—all the abominable things they do. But our loathing of IS and our wish to get rid of it, to defeat it, to stop it is not the issue here today. The issue here is: what action could be taken to stop IS and get rid of it? I have to say that I do not see such an action.

The Prime Minister spoke about getting a transitional Government in Syria and about the situation in Syria. I have been to Syria many times. I did so with some distaste as shadow Foreign Secretary, as I met leading officials in the Syrian Administration—I knew they were murderers. They murder their own people. They murdered 10,000 people in Hama alone. I would be delighted to see them got rid of, but they are not going to go. There is talk about negotiations in Vienna, but the assumption that somehow or other they are going to result in getting rid of Assad and the Administration is a delusion. Putin, one of the most detestable leaders of any state in the world, will make sure that because they are his allies and they suit him, action against them is not going to be successful.

What is the issue today? It is not about changing the regime in Syria, which would make me very happy indeed. It is not about getting rid of Daesh, which would also make me very happy indeed. It is about what practical action can result in some way in damaging Daesh, stopping its atrocities, stopping the flood of people who are fleeing from it and stopping the people who are flocking to it, including, sadly, a small number of people from this country. If what the Government were proposing today would in any way not simply or totally get rid of Daesh but weaken it significantly so that it would not go on behaving in this abominable fashion, I would not have any difficulty in voting for this motion. But there is absolutely no evidence of any kind that bombing Daesh—bombing Raqqa—will result in an upsurge of other people in the region to get rid of Daesh. It might cause some damage, but it will not undermine them. What it will undoubtedly do, despite the Prime Minister’s assurance, which I am sure he gave in good faith, is kill innocent civilians. I am not going to be a party to killing innocent civilians for what will simply be a gesture.

I am not interested in gesture politics and I am not interested in gesture military activity; I am interested in effective military activity, and if that is brought before this House, I vote for it. When the previous Conservative Government came to us asking for our support to get rid of Saddam Hussein from Kuwait, I, as shadow Foreign Secretary, formulated the policy that led Labour Members of Parliament into the Lobby to vote for that. I am not interested in gestures; I am interested in effective activity. This Government’s motion and the activity that will follow, including military action from the air, will not change the situation on the ground. I am not interested in making a show. I am not interested in Members of this House putting their hands up for something that in their own hearts they know will not work, and for that reason I shall vote against the Government motion this evening.

Her Majesty the Queen

Gerald Kaufman Excerpts

Wednesday 9th September 2015 Commons Chamber

[Sir Gerald Kaufman (Manchester, Gorton) (Lab)]

I well remember the day when King George VI died and the Queen flew back from east Africa, where she was undertaking a visit. She left this country as a Princess and she came back as a Queen, and her reign over this country ever since then has been exemplary not simply to our own country, but to all the world.

The Queen manages to combine stately behaviour with thorough hard work. She maintains this country as a democracy in a way that no President could conceivably do. [Hon. Members: “Hear, hear.”] It is not simply that she is impartial, but she is beyond politics. She makes it possible for us to have a stable, democratic Government. I am not saying that she makes it possible to have an admirable Government, but that the great quality of Her Majesty is that we do not know what she thinks of the Government. She simply maintains it in a way that makes this country the greatest democracy in the world.

Not only does the Queen do her job carrying out public engagements, as she is doing today, but she works hard at carrying out those jobs. Recently she came to my constituency and visited Gorton monastery, a majestic building which had fallen into dereliction but which had been brought back to fruition as a public venue. She made herself available to people, she met people and she lunched with the people who had come, but what struck me most was the fact that she knew everything about the renovation of Gorton monastery and was able to discuss with those people who had brought it back into use the most minute facts about how that had happened. She is a wonderful Queen, she is an upholder of democracy, she is a hard worker, and we send our heartfelt wishes to her on this day.

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

Syria: Refugees and Counter-terrorism

Gerald Kaufman Excerpts

Monday 7th September 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

First, may I thank my right hon. Friend for his remarks about the use of the aid budget, which he did so much as a Minister to promote and develop? He is right to say that we are dealing with the consequences of failure with respect to Syria. It is an incredibly difficult situation, because not only do we have the terrorisation of people by ISIL, but Assad has been the recruiting sergeant for ISIL because of the butchery of his own people. What we must not do is give up on the idea of a transition for Syria; we need to keep working towards that.

[Sir Gerald Kaufman (Manchester, Gorton) (Lab)]

In the summer of 1939, my parents took into our home a young Jewish girl, Johanna, who had arrived in Leeds on the Kindertransport. Her sister and others had arrived on the same Kindertransport, and Neville Chamberlain facilitated the arrival of these young children more than this Government are facilitating such things now. It is sad that this Government are doing less than Neville Chamberlain did. The right hon. Gentleman says that he is going to take in 20,000 refugees over five years. The Germans took in 10,000 on one day. What kind of comparison is that? I recognise the financial problems and the assimilation problems, but if we do not do it now, we will live to regret it for the rest of our lives. The message from my constituents, in a huge postbag and at every event I attended in my constituency over the weekend, is: “Let them in! We’ll welcome them. We’ll do what the Germans did. Let’s get on with it!”

[The Prime Minister]

I believe that the 20,000 Syrian refugees—many of whom will be children—that we will take directly from the Syrian refugee camps are the modern equivalent of the Kindertransport, and this country should be proud of that. At the same time, let us recognise that when it comes to those Syrian refugee camps, Britain is spending more than France, Germany and Italy. On our aid budget, we all sat around the table and promised 0.7% of GDP, but how many major countries have actually kept their promises? This one has.

Tributes to Charles Kennedy

Gerald Kaufman Excerpts

Wednesday 3rd June 2015 Commons Chamber

[Sir Gerald Kaufman (Manchester, Gorton) (Lab)]

I first met Charles Kennedy on his first day in the House of Commons, when I entered the Members’ Dining Room and saw a young man looking forlorn and lost, wandering around and wondering what to do. I asked him to join me for lunch and I found out who he was. As the youngest Member of the House of Commons, he was not going to assert himself at that stage, but he knew why he was here: to stand up for certain principles about which he felt strongly. He stood up for those principles in the House and outside it from that first day right through to the end. He had strong views, but he was never vindictive and never malevolent in expounding them. He knew where he stood, he worked out where he should stand, and you knew that when Charles Kennedy spoke he had thought it out and thought it through, and that he would not budge unless you could argue him out of a position—and his positions were pretty strong.

It has rightly been mentioned again and again that he opposed the Iraq war, which at that time was not an easy thing to do, and it was not the view of the overwhelming majority of the House of Commons, but if Charles had worked out a position and he believed that position to be right, he would not budge.

He was always genial, always fun, and it was good to be in his company. You rarely saw him without a smile on his face, but that smile was not a smile of appeasement; it was a smile of geniality and it was a smile of good will. I knew him over the years and always valued his company and his opinions. I join with the rest of the House in expressing my profound sympathy to his family. We shall miss him.

Election of Speaker

Gerald Kaufman Excerpts

Monday 18th May 2015 Commons Chamber

[Sir Gerald Kaufman (in the Chair)]

Under the provisions of Standing Order No. 1A, I am now required to ascertain whether Mr John Bercow is willing to be chosen as Speaker. I call Mr John Bercow.

Oral Answers to Questions

Gerald Kaufman Excerpts

Wednesday 7th January 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I can absolutely confirm to the House that that chapel will be preserved for future generations, as we have always recognised its importance and its rich heritage. I think it possible that of all the great moments in British history, the Battle of Britain 1940 stands out as one of the most important times that there have been. So we will protect the chapel, and will do all that we can to protect it for future generations.

[Sir Gerald Kaufman (Manchester, Gorton) (Lab)]

Will the Prime Minister take action immediately to clear up the shambles at the Home Office? A constituent of mine who applied for a fast-track passport before Christmas was promised that it would be delivered to him by courier on new year’s eve, but has still not received it. As a result, he has had to cancel a trip that he was due to make yesterday, at great personal cost and great damage to his personal life. Will the Prime Minister ensure that that man is able to travel this week, and will he clear up this mess?

[The Prime Minister]

I shall be happy to look at the individual case that the right hon. Gentleman raises. However, I think that we have made huge strides in dealing with potential passport backlogs, and I think that the Home Secretary is doing a fantastic job.

Food Banks

Gerald Kaufman Excerpts

Wednesday 17th December 2014 Commons Chamber

[Sir Gerald Kaufman (Manchester, Gorton) (Lab)]

The hon. Member for Birmingham, Yardley (John Hemming) talked about Members of this House who have been around for some time. Well, I have been around for some time and I have never known a situation like this.

Last Saturday, I attended a Christmas lunch for pensioners at the Trinity House community centre in my constituency. It was a lovely occasion, but I did ask myself what kind of lunch some of the people would have been having if they had not been there. I went to a school and the head teacher told me that the meal provided for children there was the only proper meal they had all day; I had to ask myself what happens during holiday periods.

I went to the New Covenant church for a carol service last Sunday in another part of my constituency. I had a chat with the pastor and I was told of the things that were done at that church. He told me about its food programme and its food bank. He told me that the church has volunteers who work there and in the community but cannot find jobs when they have left the volunteer period.

That night, I went home and saw on television a commercial that said, “Help Unilever and Oxfam fight hunger in the UK”. I found it utterly shaming that a commercial such as that had been made, where people were saying that there was so much hunger in this country that action against it had to be organised. Despite the damage done by this Government, this is one of the richest countries in the world, and it is utterly humiliating that people should have to go to food banks to get a meal.

[Kerry McCarthy]

I do not know whether my right hon. Friend has yet had a chance to visit the excellent FoodCycle Manchester. I am a patron of the organisation and was at FoodCycle Bristol on Sunday. It uses food waste—surplus food—to provide meals for people who cannot afford them. For the 60 or so people I met there on Sunday, it was probably the only nutritious cooked meal they were going to get that week. I urge him to visit.

[Sir Gerald Kaufman]

My hon. Friend has got it right, because one sees this again and again. Why? It is because of poverty. The figures show that in my constituency 42% of children live in poverty. Mine is the 10th worst constituency for that in the whole UK. The city of Manchester is fourth in Britain for poverty, and that is according to the Department for Education’s own definition. Children are said to be living in relative poverty if their household’s income is less than 60% of the median national income.

Manchester is a target for this Government. They have taken away more Government funding from my city than from anywhere else in the country, whereas in other parts of the country, such as Surrey, they are actually increasing the amount of Government funding. It is a cynical political trick. They know that they cannot win seats in Manchester, so why make life comfortable for people there? By contrast, in Surrey they do have some hope of winning constituencies. It is a political manoeuvre and my constituents suffer because of it.

The Government’s policy can be summed up:

“For whosoever hath, to him shall be given…but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.”

Benefit sanctions are spoken of again and again. Heaven knows I have a case load, as the Secretary of State knows from his correspondence with me, but people should not look for benefits other than those to which they are entitled by family circumstances. They should be able to have jobs. In Manchester, we have the Manchester living wage, but it does not prevail. If people do not have incomes or jobs they cannot buy food. It is terrible that we have in this country—a progressive western European country—hunger that is categorised by Unilever and Oxfam. The people who provide food banks are fine, decent people. They are good people—valuable people—but we should not need them.

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

Oral Answers to Questions

Gerald Kaufman Excerpts

Wednesday 26th November 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. Friend will obviously have to wait for the Chancellor to make his autumn statement but, as I said a moment ago, we have been able to put more money into the NHS and to ensure that the NHS and social care are working better together, for instance with our Better Care fund, because we have a strong economy that can deliver those resources. I am absolutely committed to ensuring that we safeguard and improve our NHS, and that means everything to do with our NHS, including the mental health services she mentioned.

[Sir Gerald Kaufman (Manchester, Gorton) (Lab)]

Will the Prime Minister condemn the new Israeli Government Bill that removes what are defined as national rights from all Israeli citizens who are not Jews, makes Hebrew the only national language and has been denounced by the Israeli Attorney-General as causing a

“deterioration of the democratic characteristic of the state”?

Will he make it clear that the statutory, repressive removal of citizenship rights on the basis of religion will turn Israel into an apartheid state?

[The Prime Minister]

One of the reasons I am such a strong supporter of Israel is that it is a country that has given rights and democracy to its people, and it is very important that that continues. When we look across the region and at the indexes of freedom, we see that Israel is one of the few countries that tick the boxes for freedom, and it is very important that it continues to do so.

EU Council, Security and Middle East

Gerald Kaufman Excerpts

Monday 1st September 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes a good point, which shows exactly why we need to discuss and examine this issue further. The reason why everyone will want us to examine this is that it absolutely sticks in the craw that someone can go from this country to Syria, declare jihad, make all sorts of plans to start doing us damage and then contemplate returning to Britain having declared their allegiance to another state. That is the problem that we need to address, and my hon. Friend will be useful in doing so.

[Sir Gerald Kaufman (Manchester, Gorton) (Lab)]

Does the right hon. Gentleman recall that when he made his previous statement on Gaza, I said that the Israelis could kill but they could not win. Seven weeks later, 2,000 Palestinians, including 500 children, have been killed by the Israelis and an enormous amount of physical damage has been inflicted that makes life in the Gaza strip next to impossible. What will the Government do to prevent another such attack, which will come at some time or another if not stopped, and will he now impose an arms ban on Israel?

[The Prime Minister]

What we must do is convince everyone that it is worth while getting round the table to find a negotiated solution to the fundamental underlying issue of the need for a Palestinian state. To do that, we must persuade the Israelis to make it a greater priority and to understand that that would be the true route to security. We also need to persuade the Palestinians and those who have supported Hamas that terrorist attacks and rocket attacks on Israel will not bring Palestinian statehood closer.

Ukraine (Flight MH17) and Gaza

Gerald Kaufman Excerpts

Monday 21st July 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

Of course, we would urge every country to act in a way that is proportionate and consistent with international law. We believe in those norms of international law and uphold them ourselves, but it is worth putting ourselves for a minute in the shoes of the Israeli people who have suffered these rocket attacks and who quite sensibly ask their Government to take action to try to prevent them in the future.

[Sir Gerald Kaufman (Manchester, Gorton) (Lab)]

Will the right hon. Gentleman condemn outright the Israeli massacre over the weekend at Shujai’iya of 67 Palestinian innocents whom Netanyahu has obscenely described as “telegenically dead”, together with the four innocent people killed today by the Israeli direct hit on the al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades’ hospital? Will he also increase the Government’s valuable aid to the United Nations Relief and Works Agency? Some 67,000 Palestinians have fled to its refuge centres, but they are running out of water and money to feed them. While in no way condoning the actions of Hamas, I ask him to point out to Netanyahu, on the evidence of the two previous Israeli attacks on Gaza, that he can kill, but he cannot win.

[The Prime Minister]

First, I say to the right hon. Gentleman that we are increasing our funding for UNRWA to the tune of £2 million, as the International Development Secretary made clear this morning, and, as he knows, we are a significant donor to the Palestinian Authority and the humanitarian causes that need to be supported in the Palestinian Territories, and will continue to be. We do not support the idea that it is acceptable to have civilian casualties, and we would condemn the deliberate targeting of civilians—it is contrary to international law—but I repeat what I have already said: we have urged the Israelis to demonstrate restraint, to avoid civilian casualties and to find ways to bring this to an end, but the fastest way this can come to an end is for Hamas to stop firing rockets.