19:00 - The House divided: - Ayes: 237 / Noes: 293 - Question accordingly negatived.
The Minister for Civil Society (Mr Rob Wilson)
I welcome the opportunity to debate this motion and thank the hon. Member for Garston and Halewood (Maria Eagle) for welcoming me to the Dispatch Box, if not for her good luck wishes. We are fortunate indeed to be informed by the report published last week by the all-party group. The members of that inquiry, including the Bishop of Truro and Members from both sides of the House, have stressed the need to ensure that partisan politics are put to one side.
Mr Wilson
I have barely started. Let me get into my speech a little more, please.
Likewise, the Archbishop of Canterbury, speaking at the launch of the inquiry report, stressed that a partisan approach would not work. I want to honour and respect that spirit in my contribution.
Mrs Lewell-Buck
On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. The Minister referred to the all-party group and said we were all in agreement on various matters relating to food poverty. He is wrong. We were not in agreement; I certainly was not. I was very clear that it is problems in the Department for Work and Pensions that are driving people to food banks.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)
I appreciate the point that the hon. Lady is making, but it is a point of debate, and I am quite sure that she will have an opportunity during the debate to make it.
Mr Wilson
As I said, I want to honour and respect the spirit of the Archbishop of Canterbury in speaking at the launch.
I especially want to recognise the contributions made by my hon. Friends the Members for Truro and Falmouth (Sarah Newton) and for Salisbury (John Glen), and the right hon. Member for Birkenhead (Mr Field). The Government welcome and value their passionate but measured approach. We recognise that this is an important issue but also a very complex one. As the recent report by the inquiry showed, the reasons for the use of food aid are multi-faceted and often overlap.
It is also important to put the use of food aid in the UK into its international context. The APPG inquiry noted the development of the use of food aid in other western economies. It found that 1,000 food banks are operating in Germany and that one in seven Americans now rely on a food bank.
It is only right to start by highlighting the inspirational work of volunteers, charities, faith groups and businesses in supporting people in need, and the generosity of the public. I pay tribute to their dedication and passion.
This country has a long tradition of selfless individuals providing such help. Much of this support in communities is led by faith groups, and they have played an active role in the APPG report. My predecessors as Minister for Civil Society and I have met a number of regional groups of faith leaders to listen to their views on the use of food banks. The way that communities have pulled together shows us all how we can build a bigger, stronger society.
David Wright (Telford) (Lab)
I echo the Minister by thanking Telford Crisis Network for the work that it does on the food bank in Telford, along with a community store. He has moved very quickly on to thanking volunteers, quite rightly, but can I take him back a step? Why does he think there has been such a significant increase in the use of food banks? That is a very simple question.
Mr Wilson
I will come to the hon. Gentleman in a moment if he will let me make a little more progress, because I want to talk about a personal experience.
Last month, I visited a Tesco superstore in my constituency to thank shoppers and volunteers for all their fantastic efforts in supporting the neighbourhood food collection. The collection was held in conjunction with the Trussell Trust and FareShare, with Tesco topping up shoppers’ donations by 30%.
Mr Wilson
I was struck by the generosity of local people kindly donating items to help others. By that stage, 88 boxes had already been sent to ReadiFood, a food bank in Reading. I have visited ReadiFood and seen first hand the incredibly valuable support that it provides. I would like to take this opportunity to acknowledge the hard work, commitment and passion of everybody involved in providing food aid.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)
Order. Five people are standing and shouting at the Minister. [Interruption.] The hon. Member for Bristol East (Kerry McCarthy) will not say that people are not shouting when I say they are. If I say they are shouting, they are shouting. If the House wishes to have a proper debate, the Minister must be able to make his points, and then people can intervene. When he is ready to take interventions, he will make that clear.
Mr Wilson
I am sorry that hon. Members have not listened to my opening comments in trying to make this a sensible and serious debate where, for the sake of all our constituents, we put to one side some of our personal beliefs. However, I will give way to the hon. Member for Liverpool, Wavertree (Luciana Berger).
Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op)
I thank the Minister for kindly giving way. I heard what he said about attending a food collection, which obviously is not the same as visiting a food bank, although he did then say that he had been to a food bank. Will he share with the House how many food banks he has visited and how many food vouchers he has issued to his constituents?
Mr Wilson
I have visited food banks in my constituency, and I obviously hope that all hon. Members have done so in theirs. It is very important that all Members of Parliament know what is going on on the ground in their constituencies, so I advise everyone to take the opportunity to visit their local food bank if they have not already done so.
I was at the launch of the recent “Feeding Britain” report. The report is a serious contribution to this debate. It is absolutely vital to tackle food waste and ensure that surplus food is redistributed. We are determined to support food retailers, the industry and consumers in their efforts to do so. There will always be some surplus in a resilient supply chain, and we support the industry in taking forward its work to make surplus food available to redistribution charities.
On behalf of the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, the Waste and Resources Action Programme led a working group to encourage food redistribution in the industry. The group discussed the barriers to surplus food redistribution across the supply chain, and developed possible solutions. As a result, new research case studies and guiding principles were established in March to enable the industry to redistribute more.
The UK has taken a lead in Europe on food waste reduction through the Courtauld commitment. I am pleased to say that all major food industry representatives have signed up to that voluntary agreement. It includes specific targets for food waste reduction, as well as ones to encourage food redistribution. Real progress has been made. During the first two phases of Courtauld, we prevented 2.9 million tonnes of food from being wasted, worth £4 billion, and annual UK household food waste decreased by 15%, or 1.3 tonnes, between 2007 and 2012.
It is great to see the lead taken by large retailers such as Tesco and Asda. We hope that more will follow their example. I have already mentioned that Tesco is offering support to local communities, and Asda gives its overs—the surplus when more stock is received than was expected—directly to FareShare. We need to take that further. This is a moral argument, not just a sustainability issue. That is why my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State and I are convening a meeting with leaders of all major food retailers and other industry representatives.
Robert Flello
On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. May I elicit your guidance? The motion does not mention food waste; it is about food banks. Food waste is completely irrelevant.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for trying to help me. When I decide that the Minister is straying from the motion, I will make sure to tell him so.
Gordon Banks (Ochil and South Perthshire) (Lab)
May I drag the Minister back to food banks, which this debate is about? From the Government Front Bench, perhaps he can answer this question: why are many food bank users not made aware of the various crisis payments available to them in different circumstances, and why have even fewer got such payments? May we have some fact and less waffle from the Minister, please?
Mr Wilson
As the hon. Gentleman probably heard during the last debate, more than 93% of jobseeker’s allowance and employment and support allowance claims are processed on time—at the moment, that means within 16 days—which is up 7% since 2009-10. When fully rolled out, universal credit will speed that up further. In 2014-15, £94 billion will be spent on working-age benefits to support people who are on low incomes or out of work. That is a significant support network for people who need it.
Ann McKechin (Glasgow North) (Lab)
I am grateful to the Minister. May I give credit to the Greater Maryhill food bank in my constituency, which does exemplary work? It did not exist in 2009, despite the fact that unemployment in my constituency was much higher than it is now. Can the Minister explain why the use of food banks has gone up by a huge percentage while unemployment is decreasing, which he reminds us about frequently?
Mr Wilson
The reasons for people visiting food banks are complex and frequently overlapping. It is difficult to give one particular reason for the use of food banks increasing at a time when, as the hon. Lady says, unemployment is dropping rapidly in constituencies all around the country.
That brings me to an important part of my speech, on the economy. Our broad policy approach is that economic growth and employment offer the best route to give people a better future and to reduce poverty. Our country has been through the deepest recession in living memory, and the Government inherited a tough fiscal and economic situation, including the highest structural deficit of any major advanced country.
The Government have a long-term economic plan to secure Britain’s future, and sticking to it is the best way to improve living standards. Although there is more to do, that plan is working, as the Chancellor made clear in his autumn statement. There are now more people in employment than ever before, and I hope Opposition Members will welcome that fact. The economy is growing faster than any other in the G7, and we have cut income tax for 26 million people and are freezing fuel duty, cutting child care bills and providing funding for councils to freeze council tax. It is working—disposable income per capita is rising, and income inequality is down. I welcome the news this morning that not only are jobs being created and unemployment falling, but wages are rising significantly above inflation.
However, we are not complacent. There are still hard-working families facing challenging circumstances, which is why we continue to spend £94 billion a year on working-age benefits to support millions of people who are, for instance, unemployed or on low income. More than 93% of jobseeker’s allowance and employment and support allowance claims are now processed on time, within 16 days, which as I said earlier is up 7% since 2009-10. Universal credit will further speed up that processing, and the Department for Work and Pensions will do more to raise awareness of short-term benefit advances. That work will include providing more information about such advances to claimants both online and in jobcentres. We will also update staff guidance on those advances and remind staff of the process for considering them.
Fiona O'Donnell (East Lothian) (Lab)
The Minister spoke about the complexity of the reasons for the increased use of food banks. I know that he has studied the report in great detail, so can he tell the House what the top two reasons were?
Mr Wilson
As I said, the reasons are complex and frequently overlapping. If the hon. Lady has read the report herself, she will know what was in it, so I will leave her to cogitate on what the top reasons were.
We acknowledge that there is concern about prices. Following Ofwat’s 2014 price review, water bills across England and Wales will reduce by up to 5% before inflation, which is equivalent to about £20 a customer. I hope that Opposition Members will welcome that cut. As I have noted, we are freezing fuel duty, and road fuel prices are falling—they are at their lowest level since the end of 2010. It is also welcome news for consumers that year-on-year food prices have fallen, with an annual rate of inflation for food and non-alcoholic beverages of minus 1.7% in the year to November 2014.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)
Order. I have already made it clear that if the Minister says he is not giving way, he is not giving way, although he has given way several times. It does not help the debate if hon. Members shout at the Minister, because then nobody can hear the arguments. The hon. Member for Garston and Halewood (Maria Eagle) made some excellent and clear arguments, which were heard, and the Minister must have the chance to do the same.
Mr Wilson
It is disappointing that Labour Members are trying to drown out my remarks, but I return to the point that I made at the start of the speech: we need to engage with this issue in a proper, sensible debate, and I am happy to take interventions, as indeed I have done.
The Government are taking action to help hard-working families, and disadvantaged children are eligible for free school meals throughout their time at school and college. The Healthy Start scheme provides a nutritional safety net for pregnant women, new mothers and low-income families throughout the UK, and it is helping half a million families to buy milk, fruit, and fresh and frozen vegetables. The school fruit and vegetables scheme provides a daily piece of fruit or some vegetables on school days to children in key stage 1 in primary schools and nurseries attached to eligible primary schools in England.
I thank the inquiry for its hard work in preparing the recent report. This is an important issue, and the report contains a series of recommendations that should be carefully considered by the Government, the food industry, civil society and others. We will continue to engage with the inquiry as it takes the proposals forward. As Minister for Civil Society, I acknowledge once again the inspirational support provided by volunteers, charities, faith groups and businesses to help people, because too often such support goes unrecognised. The use of food banks understandably generates passion and debate from Members across the House, but all will join me in recognising the selfless dedication of everyone involved in providing food aid.
Mr Speaker
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his point of order. I shall be corrected if I am wrong, but my understanding is that the Minister had another engagement of a ministerial and parliamentary character elsewhere on the estate—I think in Westminster Hall.
Mr Speaker
I will come back, but first let us hear what the Minister has to say.
George Eustice
I am grateful for this opportunity to explain why I could not be here for the opening comments of the hon. Member for Garston and Halewood (Maria Eagle). I was indeed representing the Government in a Westminster Hall debate on the welfare of greyhounds called by an Opposition Member, as I explained to Madam Deputy Speaker before the commencement of the debate.
Lisa Nandy
Indeed. My hon. Friend is right.
In the short time available to me, I want to talk about the solutions to these problems. The first solution, which tackles a long-term trend, is that work must pay. Far too many people have been forced into work that is low-wage and zero or small-hours. One of my constituents wrote to me before this debate and said that she was forced into a job where she was given, on average, only 15 minutes of work a day over the course of a week, and that £1.10 a day did not even cover the cost of her bus fare. When she left that job she was sanctioned, got into debt and ended up having to go to a food bank. The solutions are obvious: raise the minimum wage and encourage firms to pay the living wage.
When the Minister went to Tesco, did he ask that company why it does not pay all its staff a living wage? I would be interested to know. Those who claim to be part of the solution can also be part of the problem. It is the Government’s job to set the tone of what we expect from our major employers. In communities such as mine, there are real issues about the number of jobs available. If the Government do not invest to create jobs, it is no use telling people to get on their bike and go and get a job.
The second thing that Ministers must do is rebuild the safety net. I do not know whether the Minister understands how much damage the bedroom tax has done to people in communities such as mine. It must be scrapped immediately. The benefits delays that my hon. Friends have mentioned are so important. I have people in my constituency who are waiting six months just to get an assessment for employment support allowance. On top of that, the universal credit has been introduced. In principle I support it, but many people are now managing budgets that they never had to deal with before, and it has propelled many of them not just into debt, but into the arms of payday lenders—payday lenders that this Government refuse to do anything about.
If Ministers were at all interested in the experiences of my constituents, which they do not appear to be as they seem to be talking together, they would learn that the culture in the jobcentre—
The Minister for Disabled People (Mr Mark Harper)
Will the hon. Lady give way?
Lisa Nandy
No, I will not give way. It is about time Ministers listened, rather than trying to tell us that there is no problem in this country.
The cultural change that is needed in the jobcentre, which routinely strips people of their rights and their dignity, will come from getting rid of the unofficial targets for sanctions and restoring adviser discretion so that organisations can work with people, not against people, in their search for work.
I will say this to the Minister, now that he is finally paying attention to what I am saying about the experience of my constituents: what a waste this all is! He talks about food banks. Well, I will tell him something. There is a growing recognition across all the political parties that in the current economic climate we desperately need to harness the talents, the passion and the energy of people in every community, to make this country fairer, stronger, better and more sustainable. Instead, we have charities—cancer charities and children’s charities. Instead of supporting people at the hardest time of their lives, we can do little more than feed and clothe the children in one of the richest countries in the world. What a tremendous waste it all is!
The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Mr Iain Duncan Smith)
I have made it clear that I have met members of the Trussell Trust. I have never denied meeting members. The right hon. Gentleman needs to reveal his sources.
Stephen Timms
The chairman of the Trussell Trust wrote to him repeatedly last year asking to meet him, but he did not meet him.
Stephen Timms
We have all met members of the Trussell Trust. The Secretary of State refused to meet the chairman. [Interruption.] Ah, I think we are getting somewhere. He tells us that members of his staff met—
Stephen Timms
And him, too. Why did he not meet the chairman of the Trussell Trust, who wanted to explain—
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)
Order. We need to keep the debate going. We cannot have people talking across each other.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (George Eustice)
It is a pleasure to have the opportunity to close this debate.
I begin by reiterating what many other hon. Members, including the Minister for Civil Society, have said about the fantastic work food banks do and the role they play in our voluntary sector. This Friday, I will again be visiting a food bank in my constituency, run by Don Gardner, who is involved in the local church, and by many other able volunteers and church groups in the area. I also pay tribute to hon. Members who took part in the recent all-party group inquiry into hunger and food poverty. We have heard some good contributions from my hon. Friends the Members for Salisbury (John Glen) and for Truro and Falmouth (Sarah Newton) and the right hon. Member for Birkenhead (Mr Field).
The report concludes that the issues surrounding household food security are varied and complex and should be considered as a whole. Indeed, earlier this year DEFRA published a review of food aid that reached a similar conclusion. We should also note that food aid is not just a UK phenomenon. Other countries have also seen a large increase in the provision of support through food banks. In Germany, for example, food banks support about 1.5 million people every week. There has also been a large increase in the number of food banks in countries such as France and the United States.
The reasons are complex and every report that has considered the issue has concluded that much. Some have said, for instance, that food price inflation might be a factor. There was certainly a big spike in food prices in 2008, but evidence shows that in 2013 food prices in the UK were lower than those in other European countries, including Germany. UK food prices are lower now than they were in 2013. In fact, in the last year UK food prices have fallen by 1.7%, the first time we have seen such a fall since 2002.
A number of people have suggested that the inflation that happened between 2008 and 2012 might have had a compound impact on household incomes and expenditure, and that is possible, but we should recognise that in 2008 the poorest 20% of households in this country were spending 16.8% of household income on food whereas in 2012 that figure was 16.6%. The amount spent by the poorest households on food barely changed between 2007 and 2012. We recognise that there are those who are struggling to cope with the cost of food, which is why the Government are doing a number of things to help. For instance, we have extended free school meals to all infant pupils, which means that an extra 1.5 million children are receiving a nutritious meal.
Let me turn now to some of the other points that were made. A number of hon. Members mentioned sanctions and delays in payment, but the fact of the matter is that 93% of JSA and ESA claimants get their payments on time—
George Eustice
No, I will not. We have no time.
That figure can be compared with 86% in 2009-10, so there has been an improvement in payment times.
A number of hon. Members have mentioned sanctions. I have discussed the issue with my own local jobcentre and I can confirm that hardship payments are being paid where needed. The right hon. Member for Birkenhead raised the important question of whether there is more we can do to advertise hardship payments. I can confirm that the Government are looking at ways in which we can advertise them more. My own jobcentre has already made it clear that whenever it sanctions anyone it also explains to them the availability of hardship payments, which is important. I should also say that there are no benchmarks or targets for sanction referrals. We have also tried to speed up the payment of hardship payments to within three days of when people are entitled to them.
I want to turn to a number of other relevant issues. First, is poverty a driver to the use of food banks? It might well be—obviously it is—but the best way to get people out of poverty is to help them off benefits and into work. Since 2010 we have 1.7 million more people in work, which means 1.7 million more people with the security of a pay packet. The latest statistics show that 95% of the jobs being created are full-time jobs.
Let me turn now to food waste, food recycling and redistribution. Much has been done through provisions such as the Courtauld commitment. For instance, we have cut household waste by about 15%, a saving of 1.1 million tonnes of waste, but the Government are committed to doing far more about the redistribution of food. That is why my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and my hon. Friend the Minister for Civil Society will convene a meeting in the new year with leaders of the major food retailers and other industry representatives to discuss how more surplus food can be put to good use.
In conclusion—
Ms Rosie Winterton (Doncaster Central) (Lab)
claimed to move the closure (Standing Order No. 36).
Question put forthwith, That the Question be now put.
Question agreed to.
Main Question accordingly put.