The Economy

Frank Dobson Excerpts

Tuesday 11th December 2012 Commons Chamber

[Danny Alexander]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I hope this debate will be conducted in a calm manner as befits the seriousness of the issues we are discussing.

[Frank Dobson (Holborn and St Pancras) (Lab)]

Can the Chief Secretary to the Treasury tell the House of a single Tory or Liberal Democrat MP who objected to a PFI hospital or school being built in their constituency under the Labour Government?

[Danny Alexander]

Not off the top of my head, but I dare say that hon. Members on the Government Benches can speak for themselves. I have, however, heard a number of objections to the structure of PFI contracts. In fairness to the right hon. Gentleman, the PF2 model is not designed to abolish PFI and can play an important role in developing new projects. We want to strip away some of the most egregious features such as facilities management costs—a couple of years ago the Treasury was going to be charged several thousand pounds by the PFI holder for putting up a Christmas tree. That issue was resolved but it is a small example of the excessive costs involved. In Treasury questions earlier today the Chancellor gave an example concerning the cost of changing a light bulb in a hospital in Cumbria.

I am sure that on reflection the right hon. Member for Holborn and St Pancras (Frank Dobson) would agree that reforming PFI to strip out some unnecessary features such as facilities management costs and so on, and having a simpler, clearer model in which the taxpayer can share in any gains, is a big improvement. I hope that when he has looked at what is being proposed, he will welcome it.

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[Frank Dobson (Holborn and St Pancras) (Lab)]

As one of the ancients, I must say that I was heartened by the maiden speeches of my hon. Friends the Members for Middlesbrough (Andy McDonald), for Croydon North (Steve Reed) and for Rotherham (Sarah Champion), who brought a great deal of cogency and compassion to the debate. I look forward to their participating yet more.

I have been struck, yet again, by the extent to which the thinking of Conservative Members is utterly dominated by the myth of the Thatcher legacy: that she transformed the British economy and that it was saved from ruin through competition, deregulation and privatisation. One can expect Tories to think that, but a lot of commentators in the newspapers and on television and radio clearly take the same view. It is entirely erroneous. The annual economic growth under Mrs Thatcher was exactly the same as that under the Governments of Jim Callaghan and Harold Wilson who preceded her.

But Mrs Thatcher had no excuse. The windfall takings from privatisation and North sea oil amounted to £155 billion. Practically every other country in the world that had such a windfall established a sovereign wealth fund to be invested over a long period. Instead, these Tories who claim to be careful with money blew the lot.

[Kwasi Kwarteng]

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

[Frank Dobson]

No, I shall not give way for the time being because I cannot make up my mind whether the hon. Gentleman is here or not.

The hon. Member for Burnley (Gordon Birtwistle) ought to remember that Mrs Thatcher abolished apprenticeships. She did not invest in research, improving engineering, infrastructure or retooling British industry. Her real legacy was to introduce the almost total dominance of banking and finance into our economy. What a decade and a decade and a decade we got out of that!

The bankers’ bonus has become one of the greatest scandals of all time. The British Bankers Association, the trade group of these respectable bankers, actually ran the LIBOR rate rigging so that people could make money. The payment protection insurance scams were intended to make money—they were not a charitable effort. Barclays was involved in the LIBOR scandal, in the PPI scandal and in sanctions busting, and it managed to lose £7 billion in the crash. Its auditors, PricewaterhouseCoopers, apparently did not notice any of that. It should have noticed, because the bank was not involved in those things as a charity; it was getting a percentage of every transaction and one would have thought its auditors might have spotted that.

The magnificent HSBC was involved in the LIBOR and PPI scandals, and we now know it was involved in sanctions busting in Iran, Burma and North Korea. It has been involved in the financing of gunrunners and in money laundering from drug barons in Mexico. To facilitate the Mexican drug barons it opened not six, 60, 600 or 6,000 but 60,000 secret accounts for Mexicans in the Cayman Islands, and it received a percentage from each. HSBC was not in it as a charity; it was in it to get money.

Presumably, some of the bankers were paid bonuses for the profits they made from sanctions busting, gunrunning and money laundering, yet HSBC, the former masters of the universe, lost £27 billion in the crash and its auditors, KPMG, did not get a sniff of it—not a thing. That is a disgrace and is damaging our economy and the reputation of British businesses trying to get work abroad. People say, “Have you got one of these dodgy auditors? Have you got a dodgy banker on your team? It’s not very helpful if you have.” That is a real problem.

To make up for the mess that the bankers caused—and continue to cause—ordinary people in this country are expected to skimp and save. My hon. Friend the Member for Islington South and Finsbury (Emily Thornberry) shares the problem I have in my constituency of housing benefit. She will, therefore, be familiar with stories such as that of the woman who came to my advice service on Friday and lives in a council flat that was sold under the right to buy. She is expected to pay £485 rent to the private landlord who now owns that flat, but has been told that her benefit will come down by £160 a week, meaning she can no longer live there. Perhaps more importantly—even to decent, what used to be one-nation Tories—her nine-year-old daughter who is doing well at primary school will not be able to live in that flat any more, and neither will her 19-year-old son who is doing an apprenticeship. They will be driven out under what I first described—I know the Deputy Prime Minister does not like this description—as a policy of social cleansing.

The chair of the Tory party—when he isn’t Mr Green—says that people should not be able to live in places they cannot afford, but what about the people in my constituency who sweep the streets, keep the hospitals clean, work as nurses, drive buses and make the city work and a civilised place? They are exactly the people who are being driven out by the benefit changes, and I hope to God my party will vote against them.

--- Later in debate ---

[Frank Dobson]

Does the hon. Gentleman not think it rather odd that the Government are unprepared to give any estimate of how many of those “new private sector jobs” are ones that have been outsourced by the public sector? Has it not been estimated that even in the field of further education, the total approaches 200,000?

[George Freeman]

I am grateful for that intervention because it gives me the chance to make the fundamental point that Labour Members seem constantly unable to grasp—that every penny they spend from this Dispatch Box is money that has to be taken off this country’s citizens in tax, and that they will receive it only if it is earned by the private sector. It is the private sector that ultimately earns the money that the public sector spends. This Government’s rebalancing programme to restore our public finances will allow us once again to spend on the public sector sustainably with moneys earned by the private sector. That is one of the most crucial and important reforms made by this Government, and I welcome it.

Yes, the Office for Budget Responsibility has made clear what the Chancellor has consistently said—that this will be a long a fragile recovery and that it has been made worse by the crisis in the sclerotic eurozone, with the debts of the 2008 recession now being clearer than they were at the time. That has become clear not least because we now have the OBR—another of this Government’s important reforms—putting some transparency and honesty at the heart of Government statistics. That is not always comfortable, but it is an important—

[Frank Dobson]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[George Freeman]

No, I have already given way to the right hon. Gentleman.

Of course we are in the process of a long and slow recovery, but the evidence—in terms of new jobs, the data on private sector growth, and the business community’s strong support for this statement and the measures previously announced by the Government—suggests that the policy of rebalancing the economy is right and working. We must have an economy that is led by the private sector. We need to do more to support industry and the knowledge economy, which this Government are doing, and we need to do more to support regional growth outside Greater London and the south-eastern area.

It is an irony of the last Labour Government that, despite preaching the language of regional economics, what it came down to was a vast tax transfer through the regional development agency structure. In my own field, more than £15 billion was spent on business support, but according to the Richard report, only 0.5% of that was received by businesses on the ground floor, as it were. The last Government embarked on a major boom in regional spending, but it was not sustainable. One of the sadnesses of this crisis is that many of the people who were offered jobs during that boom in the public sector are paying the price now. That is not their fault; it is the fault of those who were running the economy at the time, and I for one am waiting for them to say sorry.

The net growth figures are low at present, but that disguises a very important and profoundly positive change. We have rightly taken money out of the public sector in order to rebalance the economy and bring our public finances under control. The fact that the net growth figures are positive is a sign of the profound growth that is beginning to happen in the private sector, and which bodes well for our public finances in the long term.

I welcome the Government’s plan A-plus, which is intended to restore our public finances and get the deficit under control, and I welcome the fact that the annual deficit is now down by 25%, although there is more to be done. The plan is also intended to free up money to be invested in infrastructure. More than £20 billion has been committed to infrastructure projects that are long overdue, and last week £600 million of extra investment in science and the knowledge economy was announced. I shall say more about that in a moment. The truth is that we need a plan A-plus plus plus, but we do not need the plan B espoused by the Opposition. That B stands for borrowing, it stands for the bankruptcy of our public finances, and it stands for Balls.