Universal Credit

Baroness Laing of Elderslie Excerpts

Wednesday 17th October 2018 Commons Chamber

[Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op)]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. The Member who just spoke has only just come in. There is very limited time—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

Order. We are not wasting time on spurious points of order, because I want to try to get as many people in as possible. I call Richard Graham.

[Neil Parish]

Madam Deputy Speaker, I have been here for over an hour.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Order. The hon. Gentleman does not have a right of reply. He is here and that is the end of it.

[Richard Graham]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I was trying to make two crucial points. First, scaremongering is being organised by certain lobbying groups who are sending emails to our constituents that, frankly, they should be ashamed of. I would like the Minister later on to confirm that this sentence is as untrue as the one I read out earlier:

“I’ve read that the Prime Minister has said that people will be protected when they transfer to Universal Credit”.

That is correct as far as it goes, but it goes on to say:

“the draft rules the government have published show that won’t happen if the first attempt to claim isn’t successful.”

I invite the Minister, when he sums up, to confirm that that is simply not true.

The most important point in this important exercise of rolling out universal credit successfully across the country is that the Government continue to look at what is working well and replicate it, and at what is not working so well and take the opportunity to improve it, so that, for example, constituents with learning disabilities get all the help they need with their applications.

The proposal from the shadow Chancellor, the man who would foment the overthrow of capitalism, that the solution is simply to get rid of universal credit and reverse us back into a world where people were better off on benefits than in work and had no incentive to work more than 16 hours a week would be a catastrophic decision that I do not believe Opposition Members agree with or would do if they thought it through carefully. I will not support the motion.

--- Later in debate ---

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

Order. I am trying to give as many people as possible the chance just to make a point. The time limit is therefore going down to two minutes. I see that Mr Toby Perkins is not standing, so I call Rosena Allin-Khan.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mike Amesbury (Weaver Vale) (Lab)]

Today’s debate has made it clear to all that rolling out universal credit, even in a slightly different timeframe and in a slightly different manner, will be a disaster for the most vulnerable. It will be a disaster for the disabled—750,000 are forecast to lose out; a disaster for the self-employed—600,000 will lose out; and a disaster for 3.2 million tenants. Families and children will be forced further into debt, hunger and poverty as they lose up to £200 a month and £2,400 a year.

We have had more than 60 speakers in this passionate and generally well-tempered debate. There has been no scaremongering. These are real cases and real people in our communities. My hon. Friend the Member for Rutherglen and Hamilton West (Ged Killen) spoke about his experience of universal credit being rolled out in his constituency and of the rise in food bank use.

The right hon. Member for Forest of Dean (Mr Harper) spoke about his rather positive experience of universal credit. While you were speaking, one of your constituents got in touch with me and referred to the 45% increase in food bank use in your constituency—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

Order. In his constituency, not in my constituency.

[Mike Amesbury]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, for pointing out that the 45% increase in food bank use in the right hon. Gentleman’s constituency is due to universal credit.