Carbon Capture, Usage and Storage

Debate between Ed Miliband and Wera Hobhouse

Monday 7th October 2024 Commons Chamber

[Ed Miliband]

My hon. Friend is entirely right. The challenge for the Government, and for the companies that have won these contracts, is to make sure that we create jobs in the supply chain, including in her constituency. I look forward to meeting her to discuss this.

[Wera Hobhouse (Bath) (LD)]

Waste incinerators release, on average, a tonne of CO₂ for every tonne of waste incinerated. They are usually called “energy from waste” but their environmental value is questionable unless carbon capture is attached. Yes, we need to recycle more, but energy from waste will be with us for years to come. Will the Secretary of State commit to significantly scaling up carbon capture for energy from waste plants?

[Ed Miliband]

The hon. Lady is absolutely right, and it is why one of the projects we funded is an energy from waste project. This is exactly the kind of role that CCS can play.

Great British Energy Bill

Debate between Ed Miliband and Wera Hobhouse

2nd reading
Thursday 5th September 2024 Commons Chamber

[Ed Miliband]

My hon. Friend is a great champion for his area and he is right. I am sure he reflects the feelings of every right hon. and hon. Member, whatever side of the House they are on, that there are huge opportunities in this sector. We intend to exploit them. I look forward to seeing his constituency.

[Wera Hobhouse (Bath) (LD)]

rose—

[Ed Miliband]

I will make a bit more progress. I have set out our case—a case that the British people overwhelmingly support. According to post-election polling by More in Common, Great British Energy was supported by an overwhelming 73% of voters and opposed by just 8%. It appears from the Conservative’s reasoned amendment—so-called—that Conservative Members will vote against the Bill today. If they do that, they will do something remarkable: they will go one step further than refusing to listen to the people who did not vote for them by refusing to listen to the people who did vote for them—quite a remarkable feat by an Opposition—because Great British Energy was supported not just by Labour voters, but by Conservative voters by a majority of four to one—56% to 14%.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ed Miliband]

I will make a bit more progress. [Interruption.] Conservative Members are still in the “the show was great but the audience was poor” stage of Opposition. Let me give them some advice—they will get out of that over time, but they are in the early stages now.

Because I get my kicks in strange ways, for a bit of light entertainment, I have been reading what the Conservative party leadership candidates have been saying. It is really interesting, honestly; it is quite fun reading. [Interruption.] Yes, somebody has got to do it. The right hon. Member for Tonbridge (Tom Tugendhat) said that people

“will never vote for a party that they have stopped taking seriously.”

Well, that is true. He said they should be

“given credit for seeing the errors that we may make and correcting them.”

Correct. The right hon. Member for North West Essex (Mrs Badenoch)—I believe the shadow Minister, the right hon. Member for East Surrey (Claire Coutinho), is the mastermind for her campaign—said it was no good

“having the same policy arguments from the last Parliament.”

The shadow Minister should take those words to heart.

I agree with those candidates that the Conservative party needs to move on. I am in a generous mood, Madam Deputy Speaker. I have been involved in leadership campaigns, so I have some advice. I have a free idea for the not very famous five still left in the Tory leadership competition: back an idea that the public support. Back an idea that Conservative voters support; back an idea that Labour voters support; back an idea that Reform voters support—Reform Members are not here. Back an idea that Liberal Democrat voters support. They should move on from the arguments of the last Parliament, show a bit of bravery—even break the Whip and stand out from the crowd. They should break from the past and back our Bill today.

[Wera Hobhouse]

The Secretary of State knows I share his passion and ambition to get to net zero. One big concern about GB Energy is that it will crowd out, rather than crowd in investment. Will he enlarge on how he intends to crowd in investment into green energy?

[Ed Miliband]

I am very surprised by the Liberal Democrats saying that. It is slightly “orange book” Liberal Democrats, if I may put it that way, for those old enough to remember. I say respectfully to the hon. Lady and all Members of the House: look around the world at what is happening before our eyes. There is catalytic public investment—public investment levering in private investment. The whole old fashioned, free market 1980s argument about crowding out turns out to be wrong. Just look at what is happening in America. Why is the money flowing to the United States? In part, because of the catalytic public investment. [Interruption.] I can see Opposition Members are going to be slow learners.

Great British Energy is at the heart of our long-term plan to accelerate the transition to clean energy and ensure we are never at the mercy of volatile fossil fuel markets again. It will speed up delivery, create good jobs and protect family finances, and we will reap the benefits for generations to come. I commend the Bill to the House.

Contracts for Difference

Debate between Ed Miliband and Wera Hobhouse

Tuesday 3rd September 2024 Commons Chamber

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Caroline Nokes)]

I call the Liberal Democrat spokesperson.

[Wera Hobhouse (Bath) (LD)]

We Liberal Democrats very much welcome the results of this round. It is a significant improvement on last year, when the previous Conservative Government completely failed, with zero bids from the onshore wind developers.

The results show that the CfD programme is back on track. They demonstrate the power of industry and Government working together to identify a fixed problem, so that we can widen the level of private sector investment we bring in, which is required for a clean power system transition.

Britain’s unique geography, with its abundance of natural resources, is an asset. We must harness the wind and the world’s largest tides. It is hugely encouraging that a record-breaking amount of solar capacity has been procured. Whatever the Conservatives are saying now about their record in government, solar targets were repeatedly missed, and this round is a welcome change. Unlike the Conservative Government, who, as has been pointed out, left us at the whim of the global oil and gas market, this Government are making choices that will increase our energy independence and lower energy bills for our consumers.

Future allocation rounds, especially in the next few years, must continue to deliver increasing quantities of renewables. That can be achieved by setting ambitious budgets and bringing forward incremental reforms of the CfD regime. Can the Secretary of State assure me that this round is not just a one-off and that we will increase the pace of the CfD allocation rounds?

[Ed Miliband]

I thank the hon. Lady for her support and the warm tone that she uses. She is right that we face a big challenge as a country to get moving on the offshore wind Bill, the onshore wind Bill, solar on rooftops and ground-mounted solar. The truth is that CfD auctions have served us well and continue to do so. We inherited this auction halfway through the round, and we increased the budget substantially to make sure that it was a success. But the right thing for us to do—I think this is the main point that she is making—is to talk to industry about how we can make sure that future rounds are a success. I am very interested in how we can have a line of sight for industry, so that it can have the industrial certainty to plan ahead. The annual auction round is serving us well, but we need to work with industry to make sure that we land the clean power that we need and get the jobs here too.

Clean Energy Superpower Mission

Debate between Ed Miliband and Wera Hobhouse

Thursday 18th July 2024 Commons Chamber

[Wera Hobhouse (Bath) (LD)]

I welcome the new Secretary of State to his place. I share his passion for climate action. Let me add, however, that next time he makes a statement we will need our copies in better time than was the case today.

There is no doubt that the best route to affordable energy is renewables, but under the former Government renewable projects faced long delays and costs have skyrocketed. Indeed, that Government’s record on renewables was absolutely miserable. Our electricity demand is expected to double by 2050, and we must make upgrading our grid infrastructure a major priority. The Government will know that one of the biggest challenges will be to bring communities behind hosting the big infrastructure changes needed for the grid expansion, and to cope with the huge landscape transformation. How will they secure public consent?

As the Secretary of State said, to achieve our legally binding targets we also need a “rooftop solar revolution”, which will include introducing stronger incentives for households to install solar panels and ensuring a fair price for energy that they sell back to the grid. Will the Government work on those incentives with the Liberal Democrats?

We Liberal Democrats acknowledge the new approach taken by this new Government, and I look forward to working constructively with the Secretary of State to achieve our very ambitious targets.

[Edward Miliband]

May I welcome you to the Chair, Madam Deputy Speaker?

I welcome the hon. Lady’s questions; we worked together on these issues when we were in opposition. Let me deal with her two substantive points. On the question of public consent, this is absolutely something that we need to do, and I see it in three ways. First, communities need a say. Secondly, communities need benefit. Communities are providing a service to the country when they host clean energy infrastructure, so there needs to be benefit for those communities. Thirdly, this is a debate that we will have to have, and I am afraid the last Government did not grasp the nettle on this issue.

We are going through a massive change in our economy. If we do not build the grid or roll out solar, we will be poorer as a country and we will absolutely expose ourselves to future cost of living crises. I look forward to receiving as much support as possible from the Liberal Democrats, and indeed from all Members of this House, in making the case to people. We have to go out and make the case, as I think happened in the 1950s when we will built the grid. If we do not make the case, we will leave ourselves exposed as a country, and it is the British people who will pay the price. I completely concur with the hon. Lady on rooftop solar.

Income Tax (Charge)

Debate between Ed Miliband and Wera Hobhouse

Thursday 28th October 2021 Commons Chamber

[Edward Miliband]

That is a very important point. The championing of ExcludedUK is a very important issue, and my hon. Friend is right to point it out.

This is about choices. Amazon gets help from the super-deduction, but our energy intensives are left out in the cold. I hope that in his reply, the Business Secretary will tell us where things stand for the energy-intensive industries, because they have been in touch with me saying, “What is going on? What is happening?” There is just complete silence from the Chancellor.

Let me talk about our high street businesses, because they face higher national insurance and business rates. I welcome some of the short-term measures in yesterday’s Budget, but it is not unfair to say that fundamental reform has been ducked yet again. The CBI said this in its Budget response yesterday:

“But the hard truth is that wholesale reform to unlock investment was rejected today. The Government missed the opportunity to truly reform a business rates system that diminishes Britain’s high streets and factories.”

I was quite mystified yesterday, because the Chancellor attacked the idea of fundamental reform of business rates, a system with a genuinely level playing field between traditional high streets and internet businesses. Four successive Tory manifestos have promised precisely that reform: 2010, 2015, 2017 and 2019.

When the Business Secretary was a humble Back Bencher—I think he was writing “Britannia Unchained” at this point—he was pamphleteering. I am not against pamphleteering; I have done some of it myself. He was a Back Bencher with his ideas, and he said we need

“a system that is fair for both traditional and internet companies.”

He is now the Business Secretary. Why does he not deliver it? He knows, because he talks to the business community a lot, that this is a massive issue for our high street businesses. They rightly say, “Look at the burden on us and look at the burden on tech businesses. Look at the unfairness.” That is why my hon. Friend the Member for Leeds West is so right to champion this issue.

The longer-term issue we face is how to create the growing economy that we need. Not for the first time, the Government talk a good game. We have the branding of the Budget. We know that the Chancellor is incredibly keen on branding, and his own personal branding more than anything. The Government are a bit of a sideline. It is more Rishi branding than Government branding, I think it is fair to say. There are some knowing looks from Members on the Government Benches. The Rishi branding of the Budget is the “plan for growth”. I have to say that a plan for growth that has growth of 1.3% at the end of the Parliament is not much of a plan. Growth will be just 1.7% when the economy returns to trend. That is woeful by historical standards. It is the biggest challenge we face as a country. This is an important point, because when people wonder how the Government manage to combine the highest taxes for 60 years and public services that are creaking, the terrible growth performance of our economy is a significant part of the answer.

[Wera Hobhouse (Bath) (LD)]

Did the right hon. Gentleman, like me, also miss any announcement that points to the transformation to the green economy and green jobs?

[Edward Miliband]

The hon. Lady is completely right about that. She anticipates my next point brilliantly; it is a useful segue. If we want to understand why growth is so anaemic, she is right that we need look no further than the Chancellor’s failure to seize the opportunities for green growth. This is an important point: the prudent and responsible economic call—I suspect the Business Secretary agrees—for economic growth is to invest at scale in the transition to a zero-carbon economy. Let us be honest, it is now a completely open secret that the problem is that the Chancellor is not a believer, and it showed yesterday. As we prepare to host the most important international summit ever on climate change, as delegates gather from all around the world, and as the eyes are on Britain, what did he unveil as his flagship measure yesterday? To cut air passenger duty for domestic flights. You literally could not make it up. People want good and affordable rail services, but the plan for rail seems to have been postponed again, and instead there will be 400,000 more domestic flights as a result of that decision. Once again, that shows that the Treasury is not signed up to the agenda.

I am such a nerd that I was reading the OBR report last night and there is an interesting and illuminating bit on, I think, page 176—Members can check—which says, in OBR language:

“the…costs involved in getting the rest of the way”—

to net zero—

“remain significant and their apportionment between businesses, households, and government…remains largely unclear. This leaves the costs associated with the transition to net zero as a major source of longer-term fiscal risk.”

Let me underline that point for the House. The July 2021 OBR report, which for the nerds among us is brilliant, and which I strongly recommend to Members as bedtime reading—Madam Deputy Speaker is laughing at me, or perhaps with me—warned of the danger of not acting on the climate and of debt climbing to eye-watering levels as a result. When my hon. Friend the Member for Leeds West said yesterday that debt would rise to 300%, I noticed a Conservative Member at the back look at his hon. Friend and say, “Oh that can’t be right,” but that is what it says. The interesting thing about that report is that it warns not just about the danger of not acting, but about the danger of delay. It says that delaying action on the climate by a decade will double the cost of the transition as we lock in high-carbon choices.